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The Old Hack

Story Friday April 7, 2017

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On 4/11/2017 at 0:13 AM, CritterKeeper said:

The great big book he's holding it titled The Collected Works of Frank Miller.  It's not a spellbook, it's a source of feminist indignation, something to allow summoning the hammers.

I am unfamiliar with this Frank Miller, and my attempts at Googling have given me several dozen different men by that name. Does anybody have a reference that I could look up?

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4 hours ago, ijuin said:

I am unfamiliar with this Frank Miller, and my attempts at Googling have given me several dozen different men by that name. Does anybody have a reference that I could look up?

I'm pretty sure CritterKeeper is referring to the comic book author and artist Frank Miller. One example of his comics is Sin City, which has been made into a movie. Sin City is both very beautiful and well written as well as disgustingly sexist. In the movie the sexism is toned down a bit, but the story is so full of it that it doesn't make much of a difference. It could be said that the sexism was a result of the neo-noir style, but that doesn't really explain it all.

His work from the 80's and earlier, such as The Dark Knight Returns and Daredevil: Born Again, hasn't received much criticism for being sexist, but in the 90's something changed and much of his later works has been called both homophobic and misogynistic.





 

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2 hours ago, Cpt. Obvious said:

I'm pretty sure CritterKeeper is referring to the comic book author and artist Frank Miller.

Important thing is who Dan is referring to. But this Frank Miller seems most likely. Despite wikipedia not mentioning any controversy and Sin City being mentioned as well received by audiences and critics.

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3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Important thing is who Dan is referring to. But this Frank Miller seems most likely. Despite wikipedia not mentioning any controversy and Sin City being mentioned as well received by audiences and critics.

Sin City was well received, doesn't mean it wasn't blatantly sexist. As I wrote it is extremely beautiful and it's easy to loose yourself in the story, only to go "WTF?" when you later start thinking about how the women was portrayed. The Sin City yarns are seductive, beautiful and ugly at the same time.

In Sin City the women are helpless and stupid bimbo whores, cold calculating and backstabbing bitch whores, hardened whores, stupid and treacherous snitching whores, or Miho who is a 60 pound death machine who can  single handedly kill an entire mob family that's expecting to be stormed, all with her swords and throwing stars while rollerskating and playing with her victims trying to amuse herself. Oh and did I say that all women in these yarns are whores, even those who show a hint of caring for something other than money or drugs? Except for Miho of course, she's just there for the killing...

Yep that's some nice portraits right there.

To be honest the guys isn't particularly polished either, but they just tend to be ultimate bad asses, even when they are the bad guys. And if they're not bad asses then they are most probably cops on the take, corrupt politicians or priests that has discovered the joy of cannibalism of the literal kind.

Having written all that I find myself wondering how I could read those books and not notice just how weird this shit is. But when reading or watching the movie you get sucked in and it all seems to make sense again.

Yea I'm probably more than a bit damaged...

 

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37 minutes ago, Cpt. Obvious said:

To be honest the guys isn't particularly polished either, but they just tend to be ultimate bad asses

Based on the movie, some of those whores were very bad ass too.

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15 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Based on the movie, some of those whores were very bad ass too.

Yes they were, but the only one truly able to take the men on is Miho. The others may be tough as nails, but most all of them turn into victims at some point, either to motivate a man to search revenge (Marv, Dwight, John Hartigan), or to be rescued or protected. In Family Matters Gail is the one on the revenge path, but she uses Dwight to pave the way and Miho to sweep it. Every woman in the comics is also very sexualized and it appears that none of them own a single piece of clothing that doesn't look like it comes from Fredrick's of Hollywood or a high-end S&M boutique.
 

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31 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

For whatever else it is worth, Miller also wrote (and probably drew) the graphic novel version of The 300, now a major motion picture...

... which seems like very weird choice of topic for being homophobic and misogynistic, but I only saw the movie. Maybe he somehow managed to display misogyny despite hardly any woman taking part in it and homophobia between Spartan soldiers, which are known for homosexual relationships in military.

 

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

... which seems like very weird choice of topic for being homophobic and misogynistic, but I only saw the movie. Maybe he somehow managed to display misogyny despite hardly any woman taking part in it and homophobia between Spartan soldiers, which are known for homosexual relationships in military.

Miller's Spartans were slinging the testosterone by the bucketful...

But then the ancient greeks generally had little issue with gay behavior.  IIRC in Athens, a boy was supposed to go through a gay relationship with an older man so he'd know aht he's about in the bedroom...

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

... which seems like very weird choice of topic for being homophobic and misogynistic, but I only saw the movie. Maybe he somehow managed to display misogyny despite hardly any woman taking part in it and homophobia between Spartan soldiers, which are known for homosexual relationships in military.

Well, if he'd really been looking for the most bad-ass men to portray, then the Sacred Band of Thebes reportedly once made the whole Spartan army back off and retreat just by standing at rest.  Well, okay, with a few Athenians to help.  At the Battle of Tegyra the Sacred Band routed two morai (one mora = about one-sixth of the Spartan army), the first time the Spartans had been defeated in a real battle, proving they weren't invincible after all.  The Sacred Band was 300 men, composed of 150 committed gay couples.  There were a lot of suggestions to use them in a sequel to The 300 when that movie was a big hit.  :-D

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3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

... which seems like very weird choice of topic for being homophobic and misogynistic, but I only saw the movie. Maybe he somehow managed to display misogyny despite hardly any woman taking part in it and homophobia between Spartan soldiers, which are known for homosexual relationships in military.


 

To be honest I'm not sure about how he expressed homophobia, but then I'm pretty dense when it comes to these subjects. The sexism I can see in Sin City, but I've not read or seen 300 so I have no idea about those. The only sequence where homophobia... No I take that back. Now that I think about it there are a few things in Sin City that can be labeled homophobic. The first is in The Hard Kill, where there are some indication that the Cardinal Roark and the serial killer Kevin might be lovers. The other instance is a pair of less than brilliant and hilariously unlucky thugs, Mr. Klump and Mr. Shlubb who are repeatedly used for light entertainment. I suspect they were modeled after Mr. Wint and Mr. Kidd, a pair of murderers from the James Bond novel and film, Diamonds are Forever. 
 

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