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The Old Hack

Story Friday April 7, 2017

87 posts in this topic

23 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Looking at image, seems I have one pot of that too, although it's not so active. I suppose it wouldn't be hot enough for it even if I put it directly on heating.

What I've been doing is watering from the bottom, as in I have the violet in a terracotta pot with a matching platter that it sits in, I just fill the platter with water and it gets soaked into the soil that way, I also fertilize every couple weeks with a 24-8-16 blend fertilizer (Miracle Grow), and the window it's in is south facing so it gets a good amount of light. The window is also a bit drafty so I dunno if heat is your issue, I'm in Canada and it was blooming all winter and we try to keep the apartment at about 22-23C, it's probably lower by that window.

21 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

I also like Vinca. Someone was telling me it's weed. I answered "that's one of things I like on it - it's low-maintenance".

Vinca is one of those plants that make good grown cover in shaded areas, but it can go wild pretty easily if left alone. Standard ivy is nice but definitely needs to be kept on a leash. The hotel I work had planted some along the southern property line a few years before I started working there, and it went nuts. I had the 'pleasure' of cleaning it up as part of my landscape rehab for the hotel, that was about 12 years ago and I'm still pulling stragglers the sprout up every year.

 

4 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:
40 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

This has been speculated for long time. I think that both him and Adrian Raven are aware, but they don't feel the need to tell Grace (or us). In fact, considering Adrian probably must've explained Noah how to suppress his uryuom power to learn Earth magic, Noah must've been painfully aware.

Note that The Shive didn't make that Q&A until twenty-five months after his commentary hints about Noah. Of course, it's also canon that Noah has had a lot of training, and he's been trained by Adrian. And if Noah is a genetic construct like Grace and her siblings, he could have been designed to be free of the usual restrictions on human-flavored magic by crossbreeds. So The Shive has at least a couple of ways to retcon His way out of the apparent contradiction between His 2014 Noah comment and His 2016 Q&A about Grace learning spells, should He care to.

Even the Grace Q&A doesn't say it's impossible for a part-uryuom crossbreed to learn spells, just extremely hard. Perhaps so hard one might consider selling one's soul to get around the restrictions?

It might have been easier for Noah to learn Earth Magic because he's only a Human-Uryuom hybrid whereas Grace is Human-Uryuom-Squirrel-Lespuko and the Uryuom-Lespuko combo might be harder to suppress than just Uryuom. It might also help if Noah didn't use any Uryuom abilities before he started learning Magic, meaning he wouldn't have any tendency to use Uryuom Power as a default.

As for Noah's parents, it's a given that his father had to be a Seyunolu cus it wouldn't make sense for him to want to fulfill the prophecy and bring Damien into the world. Noah's mother though can be assumed to be Seyunolu as well but it's not as certain because Noah never knew his mother, maybe she was full human and left Noah with his father after Noah was born, or some other circumstance that lead to the bitterness and desire to create Damien.

It's strange though since Noah seemed to believe that both his parents are dead, but how would he know his mother is dead if he never knew her? My guess is Noah's father just said she was dead out of spite due to that bitterness. And we don't know for sure if Noah's mother is actually dead or not.

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The way I read uryuom family life is that uryuoms who've been living on Earth for generations (which I believe is canon) have taken on sex roles more or less to fit in with human cultures. Or at least some of them, like William and Gillian. It is canon that uryuoms often and perhaps even usually have more than two genetic parents.

What hasn't been established is how much connection uryuoms put between creating a child and raising it. We're not even sure that the egg William and Gillian have been carting around will have any of William's or Gillian's genes. They could be shopping around for contributions from friends or from people who have traits they'd like their kid to have. And since they very much want to fit into human society as smoothly as possible, some human genes for their kid sounds good to me.

Getting back to Noah, if he is a construct--and arguably all uryuoms are themselves constructs--his "mother" doesn't even have to be female.

The possibility that Susan's mother really isn't her biological mother has been around for a long time, and it's not completely ruled out yet. So how about the possibility that the man Noah believes was his father really wasn't, biologically speaking?

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13 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

What hasn't been established is how much connection uryuoms put between creating a child and raising it. We're not even sure that the egg William and Gillian have been carting around will have any of William's or Gillian's genes. They could be shopping around for contributions from friends or from people who have traits they'd like their kid to have. And since they very much want to fit into human society as smoothly as possible, some human genes for their kid sounds good to me.

The fact that William and Gillian are letting their child chose their own gender (with at least 3 opportunities to change as they grow up) and have Tedd help set them up wit human forms is a good indication that their child would be a pure Uryuom. And while they did state that the known record for number of parents to a single child is twelve, they didn't say anything to indicate they aren't the only contributors of DNA for their child so it's easy to assume that they are the only parents.

I find it hard to believe that Uryuom society as a whole has any use for selective breeding. Though there are certainly examples of Uryuoms collaborating with other races in selective breeding projects, Mr Guyur with the organization that created Grace and her brothers/sister is the best example. But for the most part I think their mating habits are just based on the mental connections they make with others, rather than "ooh that one looks like a good shapeshifter".

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:

What I've been doing is watering from the bottom, as in I have the violet in a terracotta pot with a matching platter that it sits in, I just fill the platter with water and it gets soaked into the soil that way, I also fertilize every couple weeks with a 24-8-16 blend fertilizer (Miracle Grow), and the window it's in is south facing so it gets a good amount of light.

I don't fertilize it ever, so that may by why. Also, the window is facing west.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Vinca is one of those plants that make good grown cover in shaded areas, but it can go wild pretty easily if left alone.

Still waiting :).

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Standard ivy is nice but definitely needs to be kept on a leash.

Bindweed is also more aggressive than Vinca.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

It might have been easier for Noah to learn Earth Magic because he's only a Human-Uryuom hybrid whereas Grace is Human-Uryuom-Squirrel-Lespuko and the Uryuom-Lespuko combo might be harder to suppress than just Uryuom. It might also help if Noah didn't use any Uryuom abilities before he started learning Magic, meaning he wouldn't have any tendency to use Uryuom Power as a default.

I don't think Squirrel part would affect it and I don't think Noah is not using Uryuom abilities OR that it would help. However, I agree with the Lespuko part making it even harder for Grace. It certainly makes her shapeshifting much more powerful, so it would make sense.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

As for Noah's parents, it's a given that his father had to be a Seyunolu cus it wouldn't make sense for him to want to fulfill the prophecy and bring Damien into the world. Noah's mother though can be assumed to be Seyunolu as well but it's not as certain because Noah never knew his mother, maybe she was full human and left Noah with his father after Noah was born, or some other circumstance that lead to the bitterness and desire to create Damien.

It's strange though since Noah seemed to believe that both his parents are dead, but how would he know his mother is dead if he never knew her? My guess is Noah's father just said she was dead out of spite due to that bitterness. And we don't know for sure if Noah's mother is actually dead or not.

It is possible that his father was not only one who Noah talked with about his mother. The "if everything would be public my parents would be alive" suggests that his mother was also part of the group, although maybe not as fanatic as his father.

51 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

What hasn't been established is how much connection uryuoms put between creating a child and raising it. We're not even sure that the egg William and Gillian have been carting around will have any of William's or Gillian's genes. They could be shopping around for contributions from friends or from people who have traits they'd like their kid to have. And since they very much want to fit into human society as smoothly as possible, some human genes for their kid sounds good to me.

While it wasn't really established, I would consider "default" (meaning that only the opposite would be noteworthy) that they would want the child to have their genes. I agree that they could be wanting some from friends as well, but that shouldn't be problem, the kid can have multiple parents.

Note however, that William and Gillian doesn't look particularly human (despite being born and raised US citizens), which would mean that their parents didn't considered fitting being important enough to add human genes. Also, they mentioned their child will also need the TF gun.

(Another note: their parents likely build the CMD on their own planet)

51 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

Getting back to Noah, if he is a construct--and arguably all uryuoms are themselves constructs--his "mother" doesn't even have to be female.

And he also could have multiple parents, but why would anyone lied to him about it? More likely, there was woman who took part in raising him enough he would consider her mother even if she died or otherwise disappeared too soon for him to remember her. (Although, she might not been his biological parent ... unless he was born the traditional human way instead of from egg, it would be hard to verify.)

51 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

The possibility that Susan's mother really isn't her biological mother has been around for a long time, and it's not completely ruled out yet. So how about the possibility that the man Noah believes was his father really wasn't, biologically speaking?

Personally I consider this theory little too desperate ... but, yes, as long as Diane wouldn't be truly explained we can speculate.

5 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I find it hard to believe that Uryuom society as a whole has any use for selective breeding. Though there are certainly examples of Uryuoms collaborating with other races in selective breeding projects, Mr Guyur with the organization that created Grace and her brothers/sister is the best example. But for the most part I think their mating habits are just based on the mental connections they make with others, rather than "ooh that one looks like a good shapeshifter".

Yeah, it's not like human mating habits are shaped by "hey, she has wide hips, it would be easier for her to give birth to my children" - oh wait yes it is.

Unless uryuom home planet was even more influenced by magic and gods that Earth, Uryuoms evolved and their mating habits are influenced by their evolution. If the egg can accept more than two DNA's, it was evolutionary advantage and it was being used and they would still have instincts telling them it could be good idea. Note that the mental connections bit is actually evolutionary adaptation to shapeshifting - if everyone is able to change shape, then shape is going to have lower influence on mating habits.

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2 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

It is possible that his father was not only one who Noah talked with about his mother. The "if everything would be public my parents would be alive" suggests that his mother was also part of the group, although maybe not as fanatic as his father.

The fact that Noah never knew his mother would mean that even if she was part of the group that created Damien, she would have had to die or leave before Damien was created, if she died, there's an implication that she might have been killed to prevent her from reporting the group's activities to anyone (which could have happened considering Dr Scuiridae's organization got wind of it, she might have been successful in warning someone before she was killed). If she left before Damien's creation, the question would be why did she leave Noah behind? If she left after Damien's creation but before he started killing people, she might not have had a choice to take Noah with her, especially if leaving was dangerous.

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11 minutes ago, Scotty said:
24 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

It is possible that his father was not only one who Noah talked with about his mother. The "if everything would be public my parents would be alive" suggests that his mother was also part of the group, although maybe not as fanatic as his father.

The fact that Noah never knew his mother would mean that even if she was part of the group that created Damien, she would have had to die or leave before Damien was created, if she died, there's an implication that she might have been killed to prevent her from reporting the group's activities to anyone (which could have happened considering Dr Scuiridae's organization got wind of it, she might have been successful in warning someone before she was killed). If she left before Damien's creation, the question would be why did she leave Noah behind? If she left after Damien's creation but before he started killing people, she might not have had a choice to take Noah with her, especially if leaving was dangerous.

Alternatively, she might've been killed in unsuccessful attempt to prevent someone else from reporting the group's activities to anyone.

Or, she might've died on escape without anyone killing her - like, because their facility was located in terrain which is hard to go through in night.

Or, she might died on infection or injury, which could've been cured if they could just send her quickly into hospital. Hey, she could've died giving birth to Noah without medical assistance (assuming earth-style birth - which went wrong).

There are really lot of possibilities even assuming Noah was told truth about her, even more if he wasn't.

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4 hours ago, Scotty said:

Standard ivy is nice but definitely needs to be kept on a leash.

I have never encountered "Standard Ivy" in the wild.  I always seem to find the Poisson kind.

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3 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

I have never encountered "Standard Ivy" in the wild.  I always seem to find the Poisson kind.

I got no issue with the poison kind, I can roll in the stuff and not get any rashes.

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3 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

I have never encountered "Standard Ivy" in the wild.  I always seem to find the Poisson kind.

Well, it is more distributed.

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6 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Speaking of uryuom limitations on using human magic...

Just how did Gillian get that hammer? Well, technically the old hammers weren't human magic, they were created by an artifact Jerry 1.0 created. Susan's new hammer spell doesn't even work the same way (she can hammer anyone) and it's exclusive to her.

I think it was more a joke to indicate that now that William and Gillian have male and female human form that they are now truly thinking like male and female humans and therefore Gillian found William's comment a bit offensive when she might not have before.

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9 hours ago, Scotty said:
16 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Speaking of uryuom limitations on using human magic...

Just how did Gillian get that hammer? Well, technically the old hammers weren't human magic, they were created by an artifact Jerry 1.0 created. Susan's new hammer spell doesn't even work the same way (she can hammer anyone) and it's exclusive to her.

I think it was more a joke to indicate that now that William and Gillian have male and female human form that they are now truly thinking like male and female humans and therefore Gillian found William's comment a bit offensive when she might not have before.

Also, it's likely you need to be taught to summon hammers. I would not consider that cannon. Unless Tedd is so used on hammers being used on him he can summon them into women hand in cases like this ...

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2 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Also, it's likely you need to be taught to summon hammers. I would not consider that cannon. Unless Tedd is so used on hammers being used on him he can summon them into women hand in cases like this ...

I don't think women HAD to be told about the hammers, it's likely they could accidentally summon one if a particularly offensive male made them think "If I had something to smack you with..." and poof, suddenly they had something to smack him with. Susan and Nanase had to be told about the hammers because they hadn't been in a situation where they really wanted to smack a guy (or in the case of Nanase, she had martial arts so she could have easily knocked a guy silly without the aid of a magic hammer), and Helena and Demetrius felt the hammers would be useful against the vampire.

Dan did say in the first Sister arc when Elliot (posing as Ellen) summons a hammer to smack Tony, that he had established that one had to be shown how to use the hammers, but went with "rule of funny" as the reason for f!Elliot to be able to summon it. One could then assume that "rule of funny" was the reason Gillian could summon the hammer, but what bugs me is when it came time for Jerry to explain the origin of the hammers, he wasn't clear on how women learned about them, did Jerry literally go around telling women about it, or did he set up situations where a woman was offended enough to summon the hammer on her own? Pandora would certainly have taken the latter approach especially if just waiting for something to happen was taking too long, and even though it does fall well within the guide and empower rule to tell someone about the hammers, I still see Jerry preferring an indirect method of making the hammers known to females.

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6 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Dan did say in the first Sister arc when Elliot (posing as Ellen) summons a hammer to smack Tony, that he had established that one had to be shown how to use the hammers, but went with "rule of funny" as the reason for f!Elliot to be able to summon it. One could then assume that "rule of funny" was the reason Gillian could summon the hammer

Rule of funny is not really good reason to consider something canon, not even in EGS.

7 minutes ago, Scotty said:

but what bugs me is when it came time for Jerry to explain the origin of the hammers, he wasn't clear on how women learned about them, did Jerry literally go around telling women about it, or did he set up situations where a woman was offended enough to summon the hammer on her own? Pandora would certainly have taken the latter approach especially if just waiting for something to happen was taking too long, and even though it does fall well within the guide and empower rule to tell someone about the hammers, I still see Jerry preferring an indirect method of making the hammers known to females.

I think it would be weird for Jerry to tell some women about hammers, yes ... they would likely consider it suspicious. If some women would be teaching them, however ... which brings the question how Helena knew about hammers ... :). Maybe Jerry actually knew Helena when young - it's not like he would automatically realize it's her based on description he got. Or he realized it and that's why he made the vow.

10 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I don't think women HAD to be told about the hammers, it's likely they could accidentally summon one if a particularly offensive male made them think "If I had something to smack you with..." and poof, suddenly they had something to smack him with.

Maaaaayyyybe. That would account for SOME use, but will probably be bad base for someone learning how to use them consistently the way Susan had. On the other hand, maybe the way Susan was using them was not the expected way and normal use WAS that women would only use it in extreme or random cases ...

 

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55 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

which brings the question how Helena knew about hammers ... :). Maybe Jerry actually knew Helena when young - it's not like he would automatically realize it's her based on description he got. Or he realized it and that's why he made the vow.

It was actually Demetrius that told Susan about the hammers, and the hammers were apparently on record for other Immortals to look up. Or Immortal clairvoyance can manifest as a giant spellbook.

58 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Maaaaayyyybe. That would account for SOME use, but will probably be bad base for someone learning how to use them consistently the way Susan had. On the other hand, maybe the way Susan was using them was not the expected way and normal use WAS that women would only use it in extreme or random cases ...

Susan at the time she was introduced up until "Lunchtable Revelations" had the "all men are scum" attitude so it wouldn't have taken much for males to offend her, all cases would have likely felt extreme to her. Hmm, after her hammering of Tony in "Lunchtable Revelations", have we seen her hammer anyone else? Larry and Rich made her want to but she couldn't obviously, still I can't seem to find any other instances where she hammers someone so I think it says a lot about Susan's outlook on men after she realized that even Tedd has redeeming qualities.

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36 minutes ago, Scotty said:
2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

which brings the question how Helena knew about hammers ... :). Maybe Jerry actually knew Helena when young - it's not like he would automatically realize it's her based on description he got. Or he realized it and that's why he made the vow.

It was actually Demetrius that told Susan about the hammers, and the hammers were apparently on record for other Immortals to look up. Or Immortal clairvoyance can manifest as a giant spellbook.

"THEY told us" ... Demetrius was doing the demonstration because it wouldn't work on Helena.

Also, that book is some offensive stuff he's reading (see commentary) because he wouldn't ever admit to Helena he is perfectly capable of offending woman without help.

44 minutes ago, Scotty said:
2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Maaaaayyyybe. That would account for SOME use, but will probably be bad base for someone learning how to use them consistently the way Susan had. On the other hand, maybe the way Susan was using them was not the expected way and normal use WAS that women would only use it in extreme or random cases ...

Susan at the time she was introduced up until "Lunchtable Revelations" had the "all men are scum" attitude so it wouldn't have taken much for males to offend her, all cases would have likely felt extreme to her.

Doesn't matter. Susan TAUGHT Sarah how to do it, and Sarah wasn't likely so easy to offend. She was friend with Tedd, after all - at least until the incident. I propose that hammers were never expected to be reliable.

47 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Hmm, after her hammering of Tony in "Lunchtable Revelations", have we seen her hammer anyone else?

She wasn't shown when around men (I mean, other than Elliot and Tedd) so much. Also, I suspect that for some years between the hammers actually being shown and Hammerchlorians, Dan wasn't sure if he want to just ignore the hammers and leave them with other not-really-well-though stuff from beginning of comics or if he "upgrade" them to full plot point. Like, not necessary for the whole time, but there might be time when he avoided using them.

(Also, she would likely get into trouble for hammering Principal Verrückt over the uniforms, no matter how offensive they were, and security wouldn't dared to try anything)

49 minutes ago, Scotty said:

still I can't seem to find any other instances where she hammers someone so I think it says a lot about Susan's outlook on men after she realized that even Tedd has redeeming qualities.

She was known as Hammer queen. Men were likely generally careful around her. In her case, the "encouraging inappropriate comment" functionality wasn't working - which is another indication that she wasn't using the hammers the way women normally did. Still, it is perfectly possible she DID hammer someone offscreen in that time.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Scotty said:

It was actually Demetrius that told Susan about the hammers, and the hammers were apparently on record for other Immortals to look up. Or Immortal clairvoyance can manifest as a giant spellbook.

The great big book he's holding it titled The Collected Works of Frank Miller.  It's not a spellbook, it's a source of feminist indignation, something to allow summoning the hammers.

6 hours ago, Scotty said:

Susan at the time she was introduced up until "Lunchtable Revelations" had the "all men are scum" attitude so it wouldn't have taken much for males to offend her, all cases would have likely felt extreme to her.

I wonder if we might be confusing cause and effect with Susan and her attitude towards men.  Les Immortels had to teach Susan how to summon the hammers even when there wasn't an offensive remark being made, with proxies such as Miller's blatant sexism.  Perhaps being exposed to all that sexist material, and having to be able to take offense enough to summon hammers, at the proverbial drop of a hat, caused her to become more cynical and hostile towards men.  She was already somewhat prejudiced against men because of her mother's attitude, and being taught how to put her feminist outrage in a hair trigger only made things worse.

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7 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

I wonder if we might be confusing cause and effect with Susan and her attitude towards men.  Les Immortels had to teach Susan how to summon the hammers even when there wasn't an offensive remark being made, with proxies such as Miller's blatant sexism.  Perhaps being exposed to all that sexist material, and having to be able to take offense enough to summon hammers, at the proverbial drop of a hat, caused her to become more cynical and hostile towards men.  She was already somewhat prejudiced against men because of her mother's attitude, and being taught how to put her feminist outrage in a hair trigger only made things worse.

To be fair, we can view this from two different angles to justify it. One, as CritterKeeper implies, there is an awful lot of misogyny going around and becoming more aware of it would naturally make Susan more resentful than she already was. Two, Susan was originally conceived as a straw feminist, more to provide a target for the resentment many men feel against feminists. Mind you, it is worth remembering that this was 2002 Susan and that she had already started to change in a more reasonable direction at the year's end. (And as Dan said, the 2002 plotholes tend to live in a little world of their own and are not likely to be addressed because there are so many of them due to his inexperience at the time.)

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4 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

...as Dan said, the 2002 plotholes tend to live in a little world of their own and are not likely to be addressed...

How do they do it?  I try to withdraw into my own little world, but this Reality thing keeps addressing me.

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12 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

How do they do it?  I try to withdraw into my own little world, but this Reality thing keeps addressing me.

Ah, now that is a particularly fascinating secret. I will have to refer you to a gentleman named Mearns to explain it.

Yesterday upon a stair
I met a man who wasn't there
he wasn't there again today
I wish, I wish he'd stay away...

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15 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:
Quote

Susan at the time she was introduced up until "Lunchtable Revelations" had the "all men are scum" attitude so it wouldn't have taken much for males to offend her, all cases would have likely felt extreme to her.

I wonder if we might be confusing cause and effect with Susan and her attitude towards men.  Les Immortels had to teach Susan how to summon the hammers even when there wasn't an offensive remark being made, with proxies such as Miller's blatant sexism.  Perhaps being exposed to all that sexist material, and having to be able to take offense enough to summon hammers, at the proverbial drop of a hat, caused her to become more cynical and hostile towards men.  She was already somewhat prejudiced against men because of her mother's attitude, and being taught how to put her feminist outrage in a hair trigger only made things worse.

She only needed to be able to summon hammers against the vampire, who's existence was sexist enough. And I don't think Miller's sexism is so bad it would turn innocent child into radical feminist in few hours. Meanwhile, her mother's attitude is something which influenced her for years. So, I would assume Susan's straw feminism was actually her mother's - which is why it disappeared so fast ; when she started paying attention to what men actually do (instead of what her mother told her they do), she realized it's not so bad.

(Despite lot of people, like the author of Sinfest, thinking it IS so bad. Well, at least in EGS it isn't.)

2 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

Ah, now that is a particularly fascinating secret. I will have to refer you to a gentleman named Mearns to explain it.

Despite the first stanza offering the clarity of Alice's stories, second suggest he simply disappeared.

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8 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

The modern version suggests that he is still very much not there.

Yesterday upon a stair
I met a man who wasn't there
he wasn't there again today
I think he's from the NSA...

Sure. But you can't blame Mearns for this version.

(Well ... ok, you can, but it would be unfounded.)

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14 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Sure. But you can't blame Mearns for this version.

After "Antigonish"  was published, Mearns himself wrote several different versions and parodies.  I think we can blame WH Mearns for the original inspiration AND the tradition of tweaking it.

And the MAD Magazine version mentioned the CIA.  Not the guys in the Maryland Borg Cube.

o-NSA-BUILDING-facebook.jpg

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