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Scotty

NP: Wednesday April 12, 2017

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http://www.egscomics.com/egsnp.php?id=602

Well, with the question of continuity out of the way, there shouldn't be much speculation of Grace's abilities here, though I think Dan will try to stick with what he's established, or make it obvious that Grace can't actually do something. Being out of continuity does also give the potential to see Grace act out of character though, and Sarah's there and can also act out of character (or maybe it'd still be in character, MV5 certainly opened things up for her).

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9 minutes ago, Scotty said:

http://www.egscomics.com/egsnp.php?id=602

Well, with the question of continuity out of the way, there shouldn't be much speculation of Grace's abilities here, though I think Dan will try to stick with what he's established, or make it obvious that Grace can't actually do something. Being out of continuity does also give the potential to see Grace act out of character though, and Sarah's there and can also act out of character (or maybe it'd still be in character, MV5 certainly opened things up for her).

I think that most of story will be Grace at work, this is only training.

I would prefer continuity, on the other hand ... Grace using her shapeshifting makes sense, but changing clothes? I'm surprised she almost made it in time.

Wait. Sarah changed clothes too. What?

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33 minutes ago, Scotty said:
35 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Wait. Sarah changed clothes too. What?

...WOW...

Dan's good......

The stairs seems unchanged.

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24 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

The stairs seems unchanged.

As does the couch.

Actually, the couch did change. but not in relation to this NP story.

In 'Identity" the couch has a pattern in it, which is what it's been throughout the main story and even Playing with Doll the couch has a pattern and that's very recent in the timeline, but the day after Playing with Dolls, the couch no longer has a pattern on it. In MV5, the couch also didn't have a pattern, and it's supposed to take place before the card tournament, but still fairly recently in the timeline. So as far as the timeline goes, that couch has shifted appearances several times. ;)

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24 minutes ago, Scotty said:

In 'Identity" the couch has a pattern in it, which is what it's been throughout the main story and even Playing with Doll the couch has a pattern and that's very recent in the timeline, but the day after Playing with Dolls, the couch no longer has a pattern on it. In MV5, the couch also didn't have a pattern, and it's supposed to take place before the card tournament, but still fairly recently in the timeline. So as far as the timeline goes, that couch has shifted appearances several times. ;)

No, the couch always has the pattern. It's just that the pattern seem to disappear the moment it gets even slightly out of focus. :-)

 

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4 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

No, the couch always has the pattern. It's just that the pattern seem to disappear the moment it gets even slightly out of focus. :-)

 

The MV5 and Sister 3 examples I gave has the couch very much in focus with the people siting on it.

There is also the "Gaming Webcomic" NP series that includes Grace playing Chrono Trigger and has a short haired Tedd, while there is a question of whether this series fits into continuity, MV5 suggests that it might (panel 2 possibly having happened before Grace learned of her favorite let'splayers playing A Link to the Past), but for it to work, the Chrono Trigger portion would have to set in the future (upcoming spring/summer) while the other gaming comics before and after are from the previous summer or else there's some weird paradox.

 

Most simple explanation though is the couch pattern was a casualty of Dan simplifying his drawing style partway through "So a Date at the Mall", where he stopped putting lines in hair and such.

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29 minutes ago, Scotty said:

MV5 suggests that it might (panel 2 possibly having happened before Grace learned of her favorite let'splayers playing A Link to the Past)

Wait what?

30 minutes ago, Scotty said:

while there is a question of whether this series fits into continuity

I think Dan clearly said it doesn't.

30 minutes ago, Scotty said:

The MV5 and Sister 3 examples I gave has the couch very much in focus with the people siting on it.

Yes, it was still the best explanation I got.

31 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Most simple explanation though is the couch pattern was a casualty of Dan simplifying his drawing style partway through "So a Date at the Mall", where he stopped putting lines in hair and such.

Except this one obviously. This doesn't count as it's out-of-continuity explanation. (Also, yes, most likely.)

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:

...WOW...

Dan's good......

... in change blindness. We are good in noticing changes. For example, Grace somehow gained a bit of height (or panel had her in a slightly bent position).

 

49 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Most simple explanation though is the couch pattern was a casualty of Dan simplifying his drawing style partway through "So a Date at the Mall", where he stopped putting lines in hair and such.

Full details can be the death of the artist, some times.

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35 minutes ago, Stature said:
1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Most simple explanation though is the couch pattern was a casualty of Dan simplifying his drawing style partway through "So a Date at the Mall", where he stopped putting lines in hair and such.

Full details can be the death of the artist, some times.

Full details would be death of the artist every time. No comics artist is ever doing full details. To see what I'm speaking about, look at this cover ... it looks pretty detailed, after all, it's chapter cover, but now compare with this image of the center character.

You want people who go full detail? Look at CGI in major blockbuster movies. Obviously, that can hardly be called drawing.

(I don't mean animated ones. I mean the ones where some characters are played by real actors and some probably don't because not even Peter Jackson can afford to hire a dragon.)

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Wait what?

In the commentary for the MV5 page I linked, Dan referenced the Gaming Webcomic page with the line "Ellen presumably suggested ice cream as an alternative after panel two".

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

I think Dan clearly said it doesn't.

Just re-read all the commentary and he doesn't mention anything about continuity. It's definitely one of those "may or may not be canon" sets but Dan certainly seems to have written it in a way that makes it appear canon and then referencing a scene from it in a 100% confirmed canon NP raises the possibility as well.

Certainly not every comic in the Gaming Webcomic set could be taken as canon. Grace talking about being able to look up in games could be less canon and more Dan making an observation through Grace. Grace playing Skyrim might be as well. But the scene of Grace watching the let's play with Ellen sleeping on the couch is definitely a continuation of the first comic of the set despite being released after the Chrono Trigger portion.

2 hours ago, Stature said:

... in change blindness. We are good in noticing changes. For example, Grace somehow gained a bit of height (or panel had her in a slightly bent position).

I thought that as well, but the more I looked at it, the more I wondered if it wasn't just Grace's hair and her posture being different that gives the illusion of it. In the first panel Grace's legs are spread apart a bit and she may or may not have her knees bent a bit too, in the last panel, her legs are together and she seems to be standing straighter, that could make her seem slightly taller.

 

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4 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Wait. Sarah changed clothes too. What?

Yes!  I caught that!  Don't need to crawl under any more barbed wire nets.  Hard to find in Tulsa.

Also, at least a few days of the Grace->Sarah part of the OT3-S?  I approve.

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Grace's ability to morph her appearance is an impressive set of skills.

Quick change stage clothing is a completely different set of skills.

I would say that when she has a coach/critic available, that would be the right time for her to work on perfecting the wardrobe skills.  And even though he has "matured" I don't think Tedd is the one she should be asking for assistance in matters where she is undressing.

4 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Wait. Sarah changed clothes too. What?

Will this be a reoccurring theme in this set of NPs?

I don't really mind that this set of NPs isn't canon.  A little room for over-the-top silliness while defining Grace's morphing and the observational skills of Mopervillians.

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49 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

I don't really mind that this set of NPs isn't canon.  A little room for over-the-top silliness while defining Grace's morphing and the observational skills of Mopervillians.

As long as they're not Mopervillains. We don't need them learning Grace's secret techniques and using them against her.

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7 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Wait. Sarah changed clothes too. What

I think that Dan is trying to slip in a couple of extra changes outside of the ones that he is calling our attention to.

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8 minutes ago, ijuin said:

I think that Dan is trying to slip in a couple of extra changes outside of the ones that he is calling our attention to.

Sayest The Dan on Patreon:

Quote

 

Jeffrey
And Sarah's shorts>skirt swap?
Dan Shive
One of many unexplained changes that are bound to happen before this is over.

 

So, new game.  Find the changes.

 

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21 hours ago, Scotty said:
23 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Wait what?

In the commentary for the MV5 page I linked, Dan referenced the Gaming Webcomic page with the line "Ellen presumably suggested ice cream as an alternative after panel two".

... oh, text on link in commentary. Didn't noticed that.

21 hours ago, Scotty said:

Just re-read all the commentary and he doesn't mention anything about continuity. It's definitely one of those "may or may not be canon" sets but Dan certainly seems to have written it in a way that makes it appear canon and then referencing a scene from it in a 100% confirmed canon NP raises the possibility as well.

Certainly not every comic in the Gaming Webcomic set could be taken as canon. Grace talking about being able to look up in games could be less canon and more Dan making an observation through Grace. Grace playing Skyrim might be as well. But the scene of Grace watching the let's play with Ellen sleeping on the couch is definitely a continuation of the first comic of the set despite being released after the Chrono Trigger portion.

I think there was some comment about how it's not entirely canon that Grace is playing games from our universe. Like, it's obviously canon that Grace is playing games (which accounts for the referenced scene), but in canon, she's playing games like Legend of Celida.

20 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

I would say that when she has a coach/critic available, that would be the right time for her to work on perfecting the wardrobe skills.  And even though he has "matured" I don't think Tedd is the one she should be asking for assistance in matters where she is undressing.

I think she would be asking Tedd for assistance with undressing, but not when changing dresses on time :)

20 hours ago, Scotty said:

We don't need them learning Grace's secret techniques and using them against her.

The shapeshifting or the fast clothes change?

17 hours ago, mlooney said:

Sayest The Dan on Patreon:

Quote

 

Jeffrey
And Sarah's shorts>skirt swap?
Dan Shive
One of many unexplained changes that are bound to happen before this is over.

 

So, new game.  Find the changes.

Yup, we have it confirmed. This game wouldn't be possible to happen in canon.

 

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51 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

I think there was some comment about how it's not entirely canon that Grace is playing games from our universe. Like, it's obviously canon that Grace is playing games (which accounts for the referenced scene), but in canon, she's playing games like Legend of Celida.

Yeah, but Dan's really flip-flopped on what games are real and what are parodies. He's got Legend of Celida and Smash Goons and what could probably be a parody of any of the Mario Bros games (though considering the other princesses they talk about are from real films I'm leaning towards Grace actually play a Mario game), but he's got Black and White, Pokemon, Fallout and Skyrim being in the EGS canon which actually could make Rad Squirrel and that 2 page Skyrim bit canon as we know Grace is capable of being very agressive when playing video games,(as well as the above link to the Hammerchlorian's example), her snapping and killing all the Legion guys wouldn't be out of character for her.

I still think it's possible that Legend of Zelda exists alongside Legend of Celida as clones of popular games exists in reality, I'm pretty certain I've said this before, but The Great Gianna Sisters originally existed as a cheap knockoff of the Super Mario Brothers back in the 1980's and was even shut down by Nintendo for copyright infringment, but now it exists as it's own unique platformer game on Steam/console. Legend of Celida could have come about in a similar way in the EGS universe. ::shrugs::

51 minutes ago, hkmaly said:
21 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

I would say that when she has a coach/critic available, that would be the right time for her to work on perfecting the wardrobe skills.  And even though he has "matured" I don't think Tedd is the one she should be asking for assistance in matters where she is undressing.

I think she would be asking Tedd for assistance with undressing, but not when changing dresses on time :)

I think Tedd and Grace's relationship is such that I think it's more likely that Tedd asks Grace for wardrobe advise. And it's canon that Grace has helped Tedd undress. Though it's probably just as likely they help each other fairly often when playing with transformations.

51 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

The shapeshifting or the fast clothes change?

Both, we are talking about change blindness in general after all.

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25 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I think Tedd and Grace's relationship is such that I think it's more likely that Tedd asks Grace for wardrobe advise. And it's canon that Grace has helped Tedd undress. Though it's probably just as likely they help each other fairly often when playing with transformations.

That linked scene actually helps convince me that maybe Tedd and Grace haven't gone as far as most people generally assume. Tedd's pretty embarassed by Grace's taking his clothes off, making me think they don't make a habit of getting naked together deliberately.  (Incidentally naked while experimenting is another matter.)  I could definitely see them leaving it at cuddling and kissing for now, agreeing not to take things "all the way" until they're both ready for the potential consequences.  I can even see Grace, who Tedd always says knows him better than he knows himself, being the one to explain to Tedd that he's not as ready as he thinks he is, in a way that neither makes him feel inadequate nor gives him any doubt that she'll be enthusiastic when they are both ready.

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Yeah, but Dan's really flip-flopped on what games are real and what are parodies. He's got Legend of Celida and Smash Goons and what could probably be a parody of any of the Mario Bros games (though considering the other princesses they talk about are from real films I'm leaning towards Grace actually play a Mario game), but he's got Black and White, Pokemon, Fallout and Skyrim being in the EGS canon which actually could make Rad Squirrel and that 2 page Skyrim bit canon as we know Grace is capable of being very agressive when playing video games,(as well as the above link to the Hammerchlorian's example), her snapping and killing all the Legion guys wouldn't be out of character for her.

Black and White is noncanon and Skyrim was not directly named ... but, yes, Dan is not so rigid in what is canon as we would like ... so, yes, he might've changed mind meanwhile.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

I still think it's possible that Legend of Zelda exists alongside Legend of Celida as clones of popular games exists in reality, I'm pretty certain I've said this before, but The Great Gianna Sisters originally existed as a cheap knockoff of the Super Mario Brothers back in the 1980's and was even shut down by Nintendo for copyright infringment, but now it exists as it's own unique platformer game on Steam/console. Legend of Celida could have come about in a similar way in the EGS universe. ::shrugs::

I would expect EGS universe having less games than ours, with them going from landlines to video phones so fast ... :)

58 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:
1 hour ago, Scotty said:

I think Tedd and Grace's relationship is such that I think it's more likely that Tedd asks Grace for wardrobe advise. And it's canon that Grace has helped Tedd undress. Though it's probably just as likely they help each other fairly often when playing with transformations.

That linked scene actually helps convince me that maybe Tedd and Grace haven't gone as far as most people generally assume. Tedd's pretty embarassed by Grace's taking his clothes off, making me think they don't make a habit of getting naked together deliberately.  (Incidentally naked while experimenting is another matter.)  I could definitely see them leaving it at cuddling and kissing for now, agreeing not to take things "all the way" until they're both ready for the potential consequences.  I can even see Grace, who Tedd always says knows him better than he knows himself, being the one to explain to Tedd that he's not as ready as he thinks he is, in a way that neither makes him feel inadequate nor gives him any doubt that she'll be enthusiastic when they are both ready.

While this is nice theory, how far you go with it breaks suspension of disbelief for me. They are teenagers - 18, actually. Sure, they might've not got "all the way" yet, but with Grace being completely ok being naked and experiments ending with being naked so often it changes SARAH's view on nudity, I'm sure they did AT LEAST cuddled and kissed naked.

Also, they have TF gun granting them additional options how to not go all the way, and Grace can't get pregnant while half-squirrel which is another way to avoid potential consequences.

Note Grace's "I though you were okay with" ... I think Tedd was more surprised by how effective Grace is, possibly because she stripped him in definitely non-sexy way. There is also them being in relative public area.

Of course, Tedd may STILL ask Grace for wardrobe advise. Despite her different childhood, she likely easily surpassed him in fashion knowledge.

EDIT: Also, see what Grace tried to get Tedd interested, followed by relationship advices from Ellen. I'm sure that Tedd did tried at least this AND Grace certainly didn't stopped him too soon after that. I mean, this was before summer, they had lot of time to progress from that.

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19 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

That linked scene actually helps convince me that maybe Tedd and Grace haven't gone as far as most people generally assume. Tedd's pretty embarassed by Grace's taking his clothes off, making me think they don't make a habit of getting naked together deliberately.  (Incidentally naked while experimenting is another matter.)  I could definitely see them leaving it at cuddling and kissing for now, agreeing not to take things "all the way" until they're both ready for the potential consequences.  I can even see Grace, who Tedd always says knows him better than he knows himself, being the one to explain to Tedd that he's not as ready as he thinks he is, in a way that neither makes him feel inadequate nor gives him any doubt that she'll be enthusiastic when they are both ready.

I think Tedd was more embarrassed about being undressed in a public place. I certainly agree that they don't have to have "gone all the way" but considering how comfortable Grace is about being naked, I can certainly see that aspect rubbing off on Tedd and him being comfortable being naked around Grace at home without it being sexualized. Of course seeing Sarah naked might still be cause for embarrassment.

3 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Black and White is noncanon and Skyrim was not directly named...

The "Grace the Goddess" NP was non canon sure, but Tedd and Grace were playing Black and White in "Shade Tail part 1" a canon story.

The Elder Scrolls was directly mentioned in canon, which the character Ysolda being from Skyrim, as well as "Fus Roh Couch" being a direct play on "Fus Roh Dah", there's no denying that Skyrim is canon.

 

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13 minutes ago, Scotty said:

The "Grace the Goddess" NP was non canon sure, but Tedd and Grace were playing Black and White in "Shade Tail part 1" a canon story.

... oh. Right. That was so far back even story comics had NP format.

13 minutes ago, Scotty said:

The Elder Scrolls was directly mentioned in canon, which the character Ysolda being from Skyrim, as well as "Fus Roh Couch" being a direct play on "Fus Roh Dah", there's no denying that Skyrim is canon.

Ysolda and Fus Roh Cough isn't the same as mentioning the game name. CAN be similar but not same game. Probably isn't, but can.

EDIT: Wait, Skyrim is Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim? Oh.

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4 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Ysolda and Fus Roh Cough isn't the same as mentioning the game name. CAN be similar but not same game. Probably isn't, but can.

In the Legend of Celida example, every aspect of it is a parody of Legend of Zelda, Celida being Zelda, Chain being Link, etc, while still vaguely comparing  gameplay and story between the two games, Dan has Sarah and Susan talking about one game, but you know it's referring to another.

It doesn't work the other way around, Dan can't have characters mention The Elder Scrolls, Ysolda and "Fus Roh Couch" in the same story and have us be like "Oh he's not really talking about Skyrim here"

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