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The Old Hack

Story Friday April 14, 2017

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19 minutes ago, Drasvin said:

Possible, but not guaranteed. We have a few examples of people that have neither an innate affinity or are a wizard. Such as Elliot. He has mostly girl-based spells, but that's due to the manner of his awakening. While it is possible for someone to be of a lineage that includes wizards and not be a wizard, like Nanase, she still had a detectible aspect to her aura, that the griffins recognized as a mark of royalty in their world.

Yeah, but Elliot had magic potential even before the diamond. He was using illusions and the Tamashi Gekido move must have some magic component to it, so where did that come from? It makes sense if his ancestry too could be traced back to an elf. That kid that accused Greg of lying about ASMA could be someone with no elven ancestry, but that's not guaranteed either because Justin apparently didn't develop his magic as fast as Nanase or Elliot which leads me to believe that Justin's possible elven ancestry is thinner than Elliot's, and the kid's ancestry could be just as thin as Justin's if not thinner so it'd make sense for him to believe that the training wasn't working, maybe if he gave it a few more months. Sarah's ancestry might have started strong for a couple generations, but then thinned out considerably which could account for her affinity being difficult to detect.

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Yeah, but Elliot had magic potential even before the diamond. He was using illusions and the Tamashi Gekido move must have some magic component to it, so where did that come from? It makes sense if his ancestry too could be traced back to an elf. That kid that accused Greg of lying about ASMA could be someone with no elven ancestry, but that's not guaranteed either because Justin apparently didn't develop his magic as fast as Nanase or Elliot which leads me to believe that Justin's possible elven ancestry is thinner than Elliot's, and the kid's ancestry could be just as thin as Justin's if not thinner so it'd make sense for him to believe that the training wasn't working, maybe if he gave it a few more months. Sarah's ancestry might have started strong for a couple generations, but then thinned out considerably which could account for her affinity being difficult to detect.

Heka didn't say anything about Dreaming (having magic without being awakened) people, just "Wizards, Seers, Those with magic affinities..." In a Q&A, it was mentioned that Greg could be Dreaming, "like Elliot and Justin used to be." It's been mentioned that anyone can train to build up their magical potential and awaken. Simply, Elliot and Justin (and likely Nanase before she was Awakened) gained minor magical abilities through ASMA. As for why it didn't work for Eric or the other students, I'm not sure. Maybe the other students didn't have the right mindsets and/or personalities? Elliot's pretty much an archetypal boy scout and was likely there to train his mind and body to be better at protecting people (by beating up bullies) and Justin was there to spend time with friends and help pull his life back together. Eric at least seemed to be one of those people who were in the dojo for the awesome, flashy powers, instead of camaraderie or some altruistic motivation. ASMA is poorly understood by the person who founded the art. Honestly I'm slightly surprised he managed to get it to work with other people at all.

As for why Jerry couldn't find Sarah's affinity, that's simple. Sarah is a D-Rank talent and her affinity spell requires S-Rank power. She's simply to weak to leverage it, so it didn't even show up. And fairies other than Pandora need a proper set of circumstances in addition to permission in order to mark someone. (Though since she has an innate magic affinity, she does fit into the group of people that Heka had mentioned)

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5 hours ago, Scotty said:

hmm that does sound like something that could easily backfire though, tell a person their sterile and they're probably more likely to go around having unprotected sex with others with the belief there'd be no consequences. How the heck would a lie like that have any benefit?

I suspect the explanation would be based on similar "logic" which is used in supporting ideas like not telling children about sex.

5 hours ago, Scotty said:
5 hours ago, hkmaly said:

It could also be his son. Or it's misdirection and it's the other woman with Susan's face who's Raven daughter ...

That would imply that the other woman is Diane's biological mother which would still make Susan and Diane half sisters and would fit the reason why Diane was adopted, but Susan wouldn't be related to Adrian, just Diane. With Mr Pompoms being related to Adrian, then both Susan and Diane could be as well.

There already was speculation that Susan's real mother is the woman with her face and Mrs. Pompoms somehow agreed with that. Personally I find it unlikely, but I wanted to add it as possibility.

4 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

Odd speculation: 1st-generation elves can only have children with each other (and, nowadays, they are rare - and have only been told that they can't have children, so they don't seek each other out for the purpose). But when a pair of elves have a child, there is some chance that the child will be able to have children with pure-humans.

Hmmmm .... and Adrian might STILL meet some other elf, even without knowing it, so the speculations about Susan might still work.

4 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

Odd speculation #2: it used to be that elves could crossbreed freely with humans, but that was taken away in some previous magic reset. Because things were getting to the point that magic use was commonplace. Those with "too much" fairy ancestry became sterile - but some small amount was allowed, so there would be apparently-human magic-users.

I would consider more likely the magic reset just caused any "new" elves to be sterile instead of going through all people and judging if they have "too much" magic ... or, maybe simply made sterile all first generation elves.

4 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

Nothing is known to be impossible for magic except time travel.  Ergo babymaking is on the table for elves if they want kids badly enough.

Nothing is KNOWN to be impossible. That doesn't mean nothing is impossible.

4 hours ago, Drasvin said:

While it is possible for someone to be of a lineage that includes wizards and not be a wizard, like Nanase, she still had a detectible aspect to her aura, that the griffins recognized as a mark of royalty in their world.

Nanase, while not wizard herself, likely have some affinity and strong magic genes (or "genes"). If she would have partner with magic genes instead of Ellen who apparently doesn't have any, she would have some chance her child will be wizard.

2 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

The secret word is "you." Which is why Heka can say Pandora is the "perfect example of why".

The word is "fairies" and she's perfect example because Heka IS aware of Adrian.

Although, we don't even know how many fairies are on world and how many children she had in previous incarnations. It's possible her genes are in significant part of magic users.

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8 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

There already was speculation that Susan's real mother is the woman with her face and Mrs. Pompoms somehow agreed with that. Personally I find it unlikely, but I wanted to add it as possibility.

Yeah, I was the one that originally speculated it, but then Edward told Nanase that Susan is Mrs. Pompoms biological daughter so that seems to have killed that theory. I do still think there may be a reason we never saw Mr. Pompom's face beyond Susan blocking it out herself though.

8 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

 If she would have partner with magic genes instead of Ellen who apparently doesn't have any, she would have some chance her child will be wizard.

Ellen was created by magic, it would be odd if she didn't have as much if not more magical genes than Elliot.

 

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50 minutes ago, Scotty said:
57 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

There already was speculation that Susan's real mother is the woman with her face and Mrs. Pompoms somehow agreed with that. Personally I find it unlikely, but I wanted to add it as possibility.

Yeah, I was the one that originally speculated it, but then Edward told Nanase that Susan is Mrs. Pompoms biological daughter so that seems to have killed that theory. I do still think there may be a reason we never saw Mr. Pompom's face beyond Susan blocking it out herself though.

Edward also told Nanase that Susan is not Diane twin and Adrian Raven told Grace he can't have children. Both might be wrong. This is problem with unreliable narrator: when you start explaining stuff by "that person was mistaken", it raises question about who else was mistaken about what.

52 minutes ago, Scotty said:
59 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

 If she would have partner with magic genes instead of Ellen who apparently doesn't have any, she would have some chance her child will be wizard.

Ellen was created by magic, it would be odd if she didn't have as much if not more magical genes than Elliot.

Sure she has as much if not more magical genes than Elliot. Problem is Elliot himself likely doesn't have any.

Although, good point: is Ellen's magic hereditary? Did Heka omitted this option? Just for simplicity or he doesn't know? Or, maybe it simply isn't hereditary.

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8 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

"Wizards, seers, those with magical abilities..." 

Errr, affinities, not abilities. I know it is a rather fine distinction but I am a little extra concerned when what we know is so nebulous already. For example, Susan and Diane were both born with an affinity that also placed them in the category of potential abomination killers, but they weren't actually born with any magical abilities -- just the potential for them.

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Just now, hkmaly said:

Although, good point: is Ellen's magic hereditary? Did Heka omitted this option? Just for simplicity or he doesn't know? Or, maybe it simply isn't hereditary.

Ellen might be a much rarer rarity than seers are as the diamond had a specific purpose and is probably a one of a kind artifact. As far as everyone's concerned though, Ellen is human and is an awakened magic user, but being a duplicate of Elliot, she likely carries the same genetic traits as Elliot. Tara could tell there was a difference between Elliot and Ellen but apparently didn't know magical duplicates were possible or just didn't see anything that said Ellen was a magic clone. Tara, like Abraham, probably saw that Ellen's aura was 99% identical to Elliot's or something like that. Dan's commentary for the comic where Tara mentions Ellen's different potential said that Elliot probably had an opportunity to tell Tara not to do that, but it's very likely Elliot didn't. I don't think Elliot would have expected Tara to blurt out what she can sense from his sister and friends so why would be feel the need to say something ahead of time?

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We could, of course, missed any amount of dialogue between the penultimate and last panels. For instance, right after Pandora uncrosses her legs:

Heka: Oh, I see you go commando too.

Pandora: WHAT?!

Pandora is showing an awful lot of leg, and actually some not-leg.

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27 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

We could, of course, missed any amount of dialogue between the penultimate and last panels. For instance, right after Pandora uncrosses her legs:

Heka: Oh, I see you go commando too.

Pandora: WHAT?!

Pandora is showing an awful lot of leg, and actually some not-leg.

Pandora is using that outfit for centuries. I'm sure she is showing as much as she wants to. Also, it might be something like magic skirt (warning, tvtropes). And, Heka is not in best angle, IMHO.

... also, where is she showing not-leg?

53 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Dan's commentary for the comic where Tara mentions Ellen's different potential said that Elliot probably had an opportunity to tell Tara not to do that, but it's very likely Elliot didn't. I don't think Elliot would have expected Tara to blurt out what she can sense from his sister and friends so why would be feel the need to say something ahead of time?

Yes ; it would make sense if Elliot warned her to not tell everyone he's Cheerleadra, but he had no way to expect what else she will blurt.

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8 hours ago, Drasvin said:

Possible, but not guaranteed. We have a few examples of people that have neither an innate affinity or are a wizard. Such as Elliot. He has mostly girl-based spells, but that's due to the manner of his awakening.

We don't actually know whether Elliot had an affinity of his own, before the Diamond imposed its own slant.  If he does have an affinity, we might see it start to emerge now that the girlie-morphs confusion has apparently been satisfied.

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Just now, Tom Sewell said:

Panel 2, a bit of right buttock and hip.

Very small bit, but I see your point.

My waifu needs a normal for her (i.e. not tea or TF stuff) full color pinup in her normal "elven mage" clothing, doing something sexy.  Just saying.

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1 minute ago, mlooney said:

My waifu needs a normal for her (i.e. not tea or TF stuff) full color pinup in her normal "elven mage" clothing, doing something sexy.  Just saying.

Clothing?

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2 minutes ago, mlooney said:

My waifu needs a normal for her (i.e. not tea or TF stuff) full color pinup in her normal "elven mage" clothing, doing something sexy.  Just saying.

All of the characters need more pinups as themselves!  :-D

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21 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

We don't actually know whether Elliot had an affinity of his own, before the Diamond imposed its own slant.  If he does have an affinity, we might see it start to emerge now that the girlie-morphs confusion has apparently been satisfied.

It's possible Elliot's affinity had already manifested, I mean he's innately good to the point where Edward comments that he must have been born wearing a scout's uniform. And he's had dreams of being a super hero since shortly after Painted Black, and it's been implied that he's wanted to be a super hero since at least his early teens maybe even earlier. Either Elliot had an affinity for something super hero themed, or, like Ashley, Elliot had goodness central to his core that the super hero spell was inevitable regardless of whether he awaken improperly or not.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

Clothing?

Or not.

10 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

All of the characters need more pinups as themselves!  :-D

That would be good.

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17 minutes ago, mlooney said:

My waifu needs a normal for her (i.e. not tea or TF stuff)

I don't think tea or TF stuff affects her. Also, I think her child form is as much normal for her as this one. We probably don't want sexy pinup of her child form - she would still be centuries old but judge might not understand it :)

4 minutes ago, Scotty said:
25 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

We don't actually know whether Elliot had an affinity of his own, before the Diamond imposed its own slant.  If he does have an affinity, we might see it start to emerge now that the girlie-morphs confusion has apparently been satisfied.

It's possible Elliot's affinity had already manifested, I mean he's innately good to the point where Edward comments that he must have been born wearing a scout's uniform. And he's had dreams of being a super hero since shortly after Painted Black, and it's been implied that he's wanted to be a super hero since at least his early teens maybe even earlier. Either Elliot had an affinity for something super hero themed, or, like Ashley, Elliot had goodness central to his core that the super hero spell was inevitable regardless of whether he awaken improperly or not.

I would think it's the "goodness central to his core" case, not anything hereditary. And probably would count as yearning.

Also, he probably had dreams of being super hero since childhood and this was just first opportunity to show us.

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8 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

The secret word is "you." Which is why Heka can say Pandora is the "perfect example of why"

Wasn't it said somewhere that several percent of the modern population of Eurasia are PERSONALLY descended from Ghengis Khan? It is quite possible that, given enough centuries, a single individual's genes can permeate at least one major racial group (barring such barriers as the total lack of intermixing between Eurasians and American Indians before the 16th century and between Eurasians and Aboriginal Australians before the 18th century).

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18 hours ago, ijuin said:
On 04/14/2017 at 10:59 PM, Tom Sewell said:

The secret word is "you." Which is why Heka can say Pandora is the "perfect example of why"

Wasn't it said somewhere that several percent of the modern population of Eurasia are PERSONALLY descended from Ghengis Khan? It is quite possible that, given enough centuries, a single individual's genes can permeate at least one major racial group (barring such barriers as the total lack of intermixing between Eurasians and American Indians before the 16th century and between Eurasians and Aboriginal Australians before the 18th century).

Given enough centuries, like few dozens or few hundred of them, it's not only possible but inevitable.

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 Mathematically, possible. Since everyone has two parents (whether or not they can be located), everyone has four grandparents, right?

Well, what if your mother or father married a first cousin? Then you'd have only three grandparents. In not that many generations, it can get hard to marry someone who isn't a cousin. And if you're royalty, you might be required to marry your cousin. If you're Egyptian or Polynesian royalty, you might be required to marry your sibling. The famous Cleopatra was married to two different brothers.

Still, with double the number of parent slots for each generation going back, in ten generations you could have more than a thousand different ancestors. In twenty, more than a million. In thirty, over a billion. Figuring one generation per twenty years, you could have a billion ancestors who lived six hundred years ago. Since there weren't a billion people on the planet until around a century ago, quite a number of branches have to have intertwined. If you'd like to explore the math further, google up Joseph T. Chang and you can find a paper he wrote up in 1999; it's a 25-page PDF.

Moving on from that scary "math" part, proving someone is really descended from Genghis Khan or anyone else who lived that far back isn't a slam dunk. We don't have any DNA samples from Genghis. He was buried in a secret place and everyone who did the job was executed. There are a lot of people who claim to be his descendents, but they all have incentives to lie about that, or at least keep any doubts to themselves. G.K. is supposed to have fathered 36 sons who fathered children, and there were daughters who've gone unrecorded. The Big K had many wives and many concubines, and who in their right mind would complain if he screwed any slave girl or captive he fancied. So it's a fair guess that he has many living descendants.

Pandora's last reset was centuries ago, and we don't have any info on children she might have had besides Adrian. So it is feasible that every human with special magical gifts is descended from her.

 

 

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Given a person X, and a few thousand years, and in any given population that can be considered isolated either everyone is descended from X, or [/i]nobody[/i] is.

Of course, if you're looking backward, maybe you know everyone is descended from X but you can't determine precisely who X is.

35% of Mongolian men have a Y chromosome passed down from a single ancestor who lived at about the right time that MAYBE it was Genghis Khan. Or it could have been a close relative. Technically it could have been pretty much any man alive in that area at that time, but it's known that Genghis and his family kept their reproductive organs rather busy.

Even if we were to find GK's remains and do a DNA test which determined that yes he did have the distinctive mutations in the Y chromosome, that still wouldn't prove it was him... we'd have to examine at least his father's remains as well.

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Just how far back will Dan reach for the magical ancestors?

Genesis 6:1-4 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)

6 When people began to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that they were fair; and they took wives for themselves of all that they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, “My spirit shall not abide[a] in mortals forever, for they are flesh; their days shall be one hundred twenty years.” 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went in to the daughters of humans, who bore children to them. These were the heroes that were of old, warriors of renown.

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4 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

The famous Cleopatra was married to two different brothers.

Didn't stopped her from having child with Caesar, who likely wasn't close relative.

4 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Pandora's last reset was centuries ago, and we don't have any info on children she might have had besides Adrian. So it is feasible that every human with special magical gifts is descended from her.

I'm pretty sure Adrian is her only child since last reset, based on how protective of him she is. Of course, that doesn't say anything about how many children she had BEFORE the reset.

4 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

The Big K had many wives and many concubines, and who in their right mind would complain if he screwed any slave girl or captive he fancied.

The slave girl/captive, possibly. Which wouldn't save her from screwing but might save her from reproducing.

45 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Just how far back will Dan reach for the magical ancestors?

Genesis 6:1-4 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)

6 When people began to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that they were fair; and they took wives for themselves of all that they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, “My spirit shall not abide[a] in mortals forever, for they are flesh; their days shall be one hundred twenty years.” 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went in to the daughters of humans, who bore children to them. These were the heroes that were of old, warriors of renown.

I suspect that implying fairies are "sons of God" would be the kind of information Dan would never say for case it would offend some Christians. That obviously doesn't change the fact it would make sense - either in the "yes fairies are sons of God" sense or in "Genesis is legend and fairies having sex with humans is source of this part" sense.

In any case, any "magic genes" from that far back would be extremely likely to spread to EVERYONE. Except that little bit that you don't actually have genes from all your ancestors ; some were lost on way.

... BTW, who did Cain and Seth have their children with?

 

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