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Scotty

story
Story Wednesday April 19, 2017

53 posts in this topic

http://www.egscomics.com/index.php?id=2337

Well I figured Susan would ask, didn't expect Justin to still not believe that Diane looked like Susan, definitely wasn't expecting Justin to have his own theory about their possible relation.

Friday should be interesting.

Also, from Monday's thread:

On 4/17/2017 at 3:11 PM, Scotty said:

I'm hoping we get another day of Justin and Susan though, it seems like an opportunity for Susan to ask Justin about Diane, just like Diane got a bit insight about what Susan's like off camera from Ellen. Although... I'm not entirely sure if Justin's noticed the same change in behaviour that Ellen and Nanase have in Diane, what he tells Susan might not jive well.

Today's page answers both my questions, that Susan would ask, and that Justin isn't aware of Diane's change of attitude, though her change essentially began during the Christmas break and we can assume she might have toned things down in school once it started up again, but we didn't see much from MSHS to suggest that Diane interacted with Justin and he just missed her on the Friday morning, though I'm not sure if hearing that discussion would have helped her case any, I don't see Justin having reacted well to knowing that Diane was thinking about seducing Elliot. Although it might have helped push him to believing that Diane and Susan were alike, both being attracted to Elliot might be convincing enough.

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He's got a theoy....

it could be bunnies!...............
Bunnies arent just cute like everybody supposes,
They got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses,
And whats with all the carrots?
What do they need such good eyesight for anyway?
Bunnies, Bunnies, it must be bunnies!
 

Given the name of the EGS fandom, that is possible, if The Dan wanted to break the 4th wall.

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I sense of Nature vs. Nurture here. Again. And preconceived notions of "buying stuff to impress".

I also see that the fairies are not really moving.

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Justin has a theory...

Something we already know...

Divine Prophet...

...

Dex is the actual father of Susan and Dianne.

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2 possibilities for Justin's theory came to mine after I logged off last night.

1: Justin could downplay this and suggest that Diane is a mirror universe version of Susan, I'm not sure if that would accomplish anything positive though, Justin might think that putting a Star Trek spin on the subject might make Susan feel better, but Susan's knowledge of the mirror universe might give her the impression that Justin doesn't think highly of Diane, unless he refers to the DS9's mirror universe rather than TOS's. There's also the Will/Thomas Riker angle, but that seems like it could apply to Elliot and Ellen more. This is probably not likely.

2: We know Susan has cousins, she told Justin that she had visited with them for Christmas, we can safely assume that these cousins would be on her mom's side of the family, though it certainly is possible that her dad's side might still be on good terms, we have the Kitsune and Verres families as proof. But it's still possible that Susan doesn't know much about her dad's side of the family and she could very well have a cousin that looks like her as Ellen originally questioned. Diane being a cousin from her father's side, could take a lot of the angst off about her dad being a serial cheater. Though Diane really was hoping that she had a long lost sister, cousins still have a biological connection so I wouldn't think she'd take it too hard, plus I think even she didn't like the idea of her being the product of an affair so this could be a load off her mind as well.

Things I'm not sure of though, At this point, Susan's had to have told Justin the whole thing about what Ellen and Nanase happened on New Years, so Justin would know that the reason people believe Susan and Diane are sisters is because an Immortal that vowed to help Susan believes they are. Justin apparently doesn't subscribe to the idea that just because an Immortal believes it, it has to be true, and we know that he's on to something because Jerry doesn't know exactly what the deal is with them. He may also think that Jerry is just toying with Susan because he doesn't know about Vows being a binding promise and the consequences for breaking them, but we can't blame him from being suspicious as he knows there's at least one immortal who's been running around marking people, and another tried to get Eliot killed. I don't even know if Susan told Justin about her trip to France and the Immortals that marked her to be able to fight a vampire and then disappeared without so much of a thanks. It's possible Justin doesn't trust Immortals.

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If Diane's father is Susan's Uncle that could explain a resemblance, but we are dealing with identical susan's pre-awakening. 

Now if Susan's paternal uncle hooked up with her mothers sister, and they gave the baby away to hide a family scandal that might explain it.

Though given the illusion Raven put on Grace, I half expect them to both be descended from Pandora through Raven, and he does not know it. 

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Justin's reaction in the 4th panel was hilarious. There's no way he's going to tell Susan that. She'll kill Diane.

That used to be Nanase's opinion about Diane also. Before the Christmas Party anyway.

Then it turns out Diane wasn't like that at all. At least, the story stopped displaying her like that.

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1 hour ago, Sjmcc13 said:

Though given the illusion Raven put on Grace, I half expect them to both be descended from Pandora through Raven, and he does not know it. 

For a very long time I've wondered about what Adrian said to Grace when he put the disguise spell on her: It was so he could pass Grace off as his niece.. Maybe Susan and Diane really are his nieces, and the woman Susan caught her father with was Adrian's sister.

As far as we know, Adrian has never met Susan and might not even know she exists. Now he does know Diane, and probably knows Rhea if she went to Moperville South, so he probably knows Diane is adopted even if it isn't in her school records and Diane's real mother hasn't told him. So it would really help explain why Adrian let Diane off when he sent Ellen and Grace to the Principal's office.

Alternatively, Adrian might not know he has nieces or even a sister. Nearly twenty years ago I wrote a very long fanfic involving time travel where two people who met as strangers turned out to be father and daughter, and I put a pretty good unconsciously foreshadowing remark in the mouth of the father.-to-be.

All in all, a pretty darned complicated, convoluted plot theory but I think it does sorta fit Dan's maybe-promises in today's commentary.

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1 hour ago, Sjmcc13 said:

Now if Susan's paternal uncle hooked up with her mothers sister, and they gave the baby away to hide a family scandal that might explain it.

I have two cousins, brothers, who married into two separate families, however they're wives siblings got married as well, so all three families are a web of in-laws.

I've also heard of twins marrying twins so it's not that farfetched.

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12 hours ago, Stature said:

I also see that the fairies are not really moving.

Which confirms they don't really need those wings for anything :)

9 hours ago, Scotty said:

: Justin could downplay this and suggest that Diane is a mirror universe version of Susan, I'm not sure if that would accomplish anything positive though, Justin might think that putting a Star Trek spin on the subject might make Susan feel better, but Susan's knowledge of the mirror universe might give her the impression that Justin doesn't think highly of Diane, unless he refers to the DS9's mirror universe rather than TOS's. There's also the Will/Thomas Riker angle, but that seems like it could apply to Elliot and Ellen more. This is probably not likely.

Considering Justin likes Star Trek (although he likes Star Wars even more), could be. Hmmm ... Justin also likes Abrams movies, but I don't see how would time-traveling-created-alternative-universe help here. (Also, we know time travel is not possible, although the characters don't.)

9 hours ago, Scotty said:

Things I'm not sure of though, At this point, Susan's had to have told Justin the whole thing about what Ellen and Nanase happened on New Years, so Justin would know that the reason people believe Susan and Diane are sisters is because an Immortal that vowed to help Susan believes they are. Justin apparently doesn't subscribe to the idea that just because an Immortal believes it, it has to be true, and we know that he's on to something because Jerry doesn't know exactly what the deal is with them. He may also think that Jerry is just toying with Susan because he doesn't know about Vows being a binding promise and the consequences for breaking them, but we can't blame him from being suspicious as he knows there's at least one immortal who's been running around marking people, and another tried to get Eliot killed. I don't even know if Susan told Justin about her trip to France and the Immortals that marked her to be able to fight a vampire and then disappeared without so much of a thanks. It's possible Justin doesn't trust Immortals.

Right, Justin was missing when Voltaire appeared. And so was Susan. And, well, they don't exactly have any reason to trust Immortal without vow. On the other hand, Justin might not know about the "tried to get Elliot killed".

Regarding trip to France, hard to say. Susan seems she's telling Justin too much, but trip to France might not be included.

7 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

As far as we know, Adrian has never met Susan and might not even know she exists. Now he does know Diane, and probably knows Rhea if she went to Moperville South, so he probably knows Diane is adopted even if it isn't in her school records and Diane's real mother hasn't told him. So it would really help explain why Adrian let Diane off when he sent Ellen and Grace to the Principal's office.

He said half-immortals cannot have children. His sister would necessary be half-immortal (or full immortal, but in such case Diane and Susan would be elves, which is unlikely to escape notice). So, while technically possible he has sister and knows it (unlikely but not directly contraindicated by anything in the story), he certainly don't know about any nieces.

8 hours ago, Darkxemjas said:

Justin's reaction in the 4th panel was hilarious. There's no way he's going to tell Susan that. She'll kill Diane.

Nah. She would use hammers on her.

Waaaaait, this is something I forgot last strip. She can now use hammers on anyone ... but she didn't actually used them on anyone since awakening. That might be better idea than trying to slap black belt holder.

 

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6 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Waaaaait, this is something I forgot last strip. She can now use hammers on anyone ... but she didn't actually used them on anyone since awakening. That might be better idea than trying to slap black belt holder.

Susan did threaten Nanase once.

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3 minutes ago, hkmaly said:
7 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

As far as we know, Adrian has never met Susan and might not even know she exists. Now he does know Diane, and probably knows Rhea if she went to Moperville South, so he probably knows Diane is adopted even if it isn't in her school records and Diane's real mother hasn't told him. So it would really help explain why Adrian let Diane off when he sent Ellen and Grace to the Principal's office.

He said half-immortals cannot have children. His sister would necessary be half-immortal (or full immortal, but in such case Diane and Susan would be elves, which is unlikely to escape notice). So, while technically possible he has sister and knows it (unlikely but not directly contraindicated by anything in the story), he certainly don't know about any nieces.

And he could actually believe that--and he could be believing a lie. Or he could have discovered that it is a lie and told Grace a half-truth for reasons. If half-immortals can have children, there may be a reason why they shouldn't.

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16 minutes ago, Scotty said:
25 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Waaaaait, this is something I forgot last strip. She can now use hammers on anyone ... but she didn't actually used them on anyone since awakening. That might be better idea than trying to slap black belt holder.

Susan did threaten Nanase once.

That was joke. Nanase even commented it.

14 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

And he could actually believe that--and he could be believing a lie. Or he could have discovered that it is a lie and told Grace a half-truth for reasons. If half-immortals can have children, there may be a reason why they shouldn't.

I don't think he had any reasons to lie to Grace like that. Simple "no" would suffice. Conclusion: he still believe it. (Which don't make it truth, of course ...)

Notice that I was talking about what he KNOWS, not what is true. He may have nieces, but he doesn't KNOW about any nieces.

WAIT. After rereading what Heka said, speculation: Elves can't have children as long as they are elves. They turn human when their immortal parent resets. That would mean Susan and Diane are not Adrian's descendants, but might still be relatives - descendants of his siblings from before Pandora's last reset. That WOULD explain why immortals decided to lie to themselves about it ... and would be consistent with the need to take back all their magic before reset.

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Also, as I've suggested, it could be partially true... i.e. first-generation elves can't have children with humans but if two "sterile" elves get it on, things can happen, and what their children are capable of is not necessarily the same. Between elves being rare, and elves not being told about the exception...

(If first-generation elves could have children with humans, keeping that a secret from the first-generation elves would be more than a bit difficult.)

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13 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Regarding trip to France, hard to say. Susan seems she's telling Justin too much, but trip to France might not be included.

There was something that I forgot, and was reminded of when I linked the comic of Susan showing Nanase the fairy. Susan did get Justin to cut her hair after she returned from Jerry's cave, Justin would have been curious about how Susan's hair got so long, so the question is, did she tell him? Or rather, how much did she tell him? Mentioning Jerry and his vow to aid Susan and Nanase would of course bring up the subject of France for context as to why an Immortal would feel he'd need to make such a vow right? Suddenly there's soo much context that I feel Justin should be aware of, but he doesn't seem to be based on what he's saying. Unless this theory of his ends up being something very plausible and shows how much Susan's told him over the past 10 months.

8 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

That was joke. Nanase even commented it.

It wasn't a serious threat, but it was still a threat. :)

9 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Notice that I was talking about what he KNOWS, not what is true. He may have nieces, but he doesn't KNOW about any nieces.

There was also the theory that Blaike had siblings that, while never had any intimate contact with an Immortal, at least not in the time that Blaike and Pandora were together and then afterwards, the family resemblance could still have been passed through the generations and remained strong enough that Blaike's great, great, great, etc grand nieces could still have the Raven face.

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10 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Susan did get Justin to cut her hair after she returned from Jerry's cave, Justin would have been curious about how Susan's hair got so long, so the question is, did she tell him? Or rather, how much did she tell him?

Also, when cutting her hair, he would be likely to notice the die is gone and blue is now their natural color.

IMHO she did told him SOMETHING. Yes, it's question how much.

10 minutes ago, Scotty said:
24 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Notice that I was talking about what he KNOWS, not what is true. He may have nieces, but he doesn't KNOW about any nieces.

There was also the theory that Blaike had siblings that, while never had any intimate contact with an Immortal, at least not in the time that Blaike and Pandora were together and then afterwards, the family resemblance could still have been passed through the generations and remained strong enough that Blaike's great, great, great, etc grand nieces could still have the Raven face.

True, although I would argue that it's unlikely he would know about those either. Especially if the total number of Blaike's descendants is already in triple digits. Also, it would not explain their magic affinity.

In any case, the implication that he deliberately let Diane go because he recognized her as relative is unlikely. Also, if he would recognize Diane, he would likely assume Grace's "no reason" is related to her recognizing the similarity.

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2 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

True, although I would argue that it's unlikely he would know about those either. Especially if the total number of Blaike's descendants is already in triple digits. Also, it would not explain their magic affinity.

Agreed, Adrian likely wouldn't have known about other relatives of Blaike's, Blaike was an adventurer and was probably a long way from home when he met Pandora, and may not have been able to get back to his family before he died.

As for affinity, Blaike might have had it, but Pandora didn't allow herself to mark him, remember she limited herself to what she could do greatly. That doesn't mean the affinity couldn't have been passed down the rest of the Raven line.

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13 hours ago, Scotty said:

1: Justin could downplay this and suggest that Diane is a mirror universe version of Susan, I'm not sure if that would accomplish anything positive though, Justin might think that putting a Star Trek spin on the subject might make Susan feel better, but Susan's knowledge of the mirror universe might give her the impression that Justin doesn't think highly of Diane, unless he refers to the DS9's mirror universe rather than TOS's. There's also the Will/Thomas Riker angle, but that seems like it could apply to Elliot and Ellen more. This is probably not likely.

This is the theory I expect to be correct.

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I have yet another crackpot plot theory: We won't get to hear Justin's theory, maybe getting another Jeremy panel when Jeremy reveals his theory to Susan. Or another SHOUT HEARD IN SPA-A-A-A-A-A-ACE. Or both.

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5 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Elves can't have children as long as they are elves. They turn human when their immortal parent resets

This one is now on the top of my "HOW OB(li)VIOUS" list.

The elven child of an immortal grows up under the protection of their immortal parent.  And when the immortal parent resets, the child becomes more human and lives a somewhat more mundane mortal adult human lifespan.

Pandora is several centuries past the recommended reset date and shows occasional signs of madness.  Pandora produced Adrian when she was less than two centuries from her previous reset, so if Adrian were a normal Immortal, he would also be showing signs of madness.  But he seems sane enough.  His biggest mental problem is that he truly desires to be a warrior or soldier, but is prevented from doing so by rules that mortals don't know...

Moment of Epiphany...

Adrian Raven is Charles, Prince of Wales and Pandora is Elizabeth II.

In almost any other lifetime, Chuck should have been on the throne long ago.  But Liz just will not quit.  Adrian should have been able to live a human life of his choosing, but Pandora won't quit.

In Egypt, Rameses II (the Pharaoh Yule Brenner played in The Ten Commandments) outlived about half a dozen Heirs Apparent.  This is not a unique phenomena to fictional places like Moperville or Britain.

As an Elf, Adrian has been prohibited from doing many things.  Perhaps he may fight in the army (among other things) once Pandora resets.

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The problem with Adrian being Prince Charles is that HRH has served in the RN, for 5 yeas as normal officer.  When he was granted the title of Colonel-in-Chief of the Airborne Regiment he took the Airborne course

Quote

On being appointed Colonel-in-Chief of the Parachute Regiment, a few months before he was 30, The Prince asked to take part in the parachute training course.

The Prince felt he could not "look them in the eye" or wear the Parachute Regiment's famous beret and wings badge unless he had done the course, he told his biographer, Jonathan Dimbleby, 15 years later.

Both Prince Charles and his sons have very much been a warrior prince.

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Yes, the Hanover Princes have served in the British Military.  But there are other things they are restricted from doing.

Adrian Raven can practice magical arts.  Do you think The Sun would let it slide if they discovered Princess Anne and Zara Tindall practicing druidic rites bareback on horses without saddles?

 

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4 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Do you think The Sun would let it slide if they discovered Princess Anne and Zara Tindall practicing druidic rites bareback on horses without saddles?

I know it would really catch my attention if they in any way rode bareback on horses with saddles. That must be really uncomfortable, not to mention annoying for the poor horses.

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I find it interesting that while Susan is still having a problem with touching,  even though she's been working on that, her faeries that are animated and controlled by her subconscious mind has no problem being affectionate with people she likes and feel safe with.

Makes me wonder what will happen when she meet someone who makes her heart flutter...
 

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1 hour ago, Cpt. Obvious said:

I find it interesting that while Susan is still having a problem with touching,  even though she's been working on that, her faeries that are animated and controlled by her subconscious mind has no problem being affectionate with people she likes and feel safe with.

Makes me wonder what will happen when she meet someone who makes her heart flutter...

Massive internal conflict.  Radical ambivalence.  Wanting to be close/fearing to be close triggered by the same thing.

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