• Announcements

    • Robin

      Welcome!   03/05/2016

      Welcome, everyone, to the new 910CMX Community Forums. I'm still working on getting them running, so things may change.  If you're a 910 Comic creator and need your forum recreated, let me know and I'll get on it right away.  I'll do my best to make this new place as fun as the last one!
Sign in to follow this  
Stature

Story Wednesday March 30, 2016

Recommended Posts

Soooo ... Andrea is bad at navigation and Tara forgot important knowledge about place she's traveling to. I would blame that on their bird brains, but humans didn't shown to be that much better in remembering stuff either. (I don't remember ever forgetting something as important - wait a sec ... :)).

 

The "significant part of the story could have been avoided if someone had just remembered something they'd already been told" happens very often, but usually it's because scenarists (or writers) forget too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, sounds like Tara's "ancient" was from the main eight's half of the world and didn't come through with her. I guess his statement of "you're still on this half of the Earth?" should have been a giveaway that he wasn't from her half.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, partner555 said:

Whoops!? You could have killed if not seriously injured Elliot!

4 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Soooo ... Andrea is bad at navigation and Tara forgot important knowledge about place she's traveling to.

To be fair to her, though, we don't know when that flashback takes place, right? Andrea's been here for months, and the actual flashback could be years ago. Especially if this half of the world is a particular interest area for Andrea. If Tara is used to Andrea giving out random facts about this world, then it's easy to let it gloss over. Think about any time your S.O. has talked to you about a specific detail of their work or school major. These are topics that come up enough to make you think you've heard it all and don't really need to completely grab hold of the specifics... especially if it's in a field you understand little about and have already decided won't ever fully understand. When I talk about specific aspects of learning programming, there's no way my gf would be able to remember specific trivia about a random language construct. She doesn't know enough about the subject for the info to do her any real good, and doesn't care about it beyond it being something I like, and thus she likes it by virtue of it making me happy.

Point is that unless we learn this flashback is specifically their preparation for both of them coming over to this world, there's ample reason to not get too down on Tara for not remembering this one aspect of the world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Heh, I could totally see me forgetting some important detail that was mentioned in passing. I would also feel like an idiot for doing so even were it totally understandable that I forgot, or more likely that it didn't register as important information and thus not be stored properly.

Furthermore I recall reading somewhere that when under stress it's harder to recall things, which is why people will be taking a test and totally blank out on the subject at hand. (Which is why doing relaxation exercises before a test can actually help you pass)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is the sort of thing I wish Dan would edit out.  It doesn't really advance the story line, only adds a little characterization, and while it is somewhat funny IMO it's not funny enough to justify spending an entire strip on it.  I'm probably in a minority there I just would rather see the plot move along more.

This bothers me for another reason.  Maybe I read too many Dresden books, but there is big difference between not lying and telling the truth and I would expect someone with Tara's intelligence to understand that.  I suppose you could say that none of the immortals in her half of the world have bad intentions and so she never heard of one twisting the truth....but that seems a bit unlikely to me.

Ah well....at least Nanase looks very cute sitting on floating Elliot's leg.  And the griffin couple continue to remind me a lot of couples I know in real life. :)

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Circe said:

This is the sort of thing I wish Dan would edit out.  It doesn't really advance the story line, only adds a little characterization, and while it is somewhat funny IMO it's not funny enough to justify spending an entire strip on it.  I'm probably in a minority there I just would rather see the plot move along more.

This bothers me for another reason.  Maybe I read too many Dresden books, but there is big difference between not lying and telling the truth and I would expect someone with Tara's intelligence to understand that.  I suppose you could say that none of the immortals in her half of the world have bad intentions and so she never heard of one twisting the truth....but that seems a bit unlikely to me.

Ah well....at least Nanase looks very cute sitting on floating Elliot's leg.  And the griffin couple continue to remind me a lot of couples I know in real life. :)

This strip kind of feels like it's leaning on the fourth wall. Like we got a joke out of it but at the same time it broke the characters and the world a little bit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, vvaivi said:

This strip kind of feels like it's leaning on the fourth wall. Like we got a joke out of it but at the same time it broke the characters and the world a little bit.

How so? We already knew that Tara was a little absent minded on some things especially when anxious about something, like not realizing that the reason Andrea hadn't returned yet was that she lost track of where the portal back was, instead she assumed Andrea was in trouble. Forgetting that Andrea had told her about the differences between Immortals and Ancients would fit in character for Tara.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Matoyak said:

Point is that unless we learn this flashback is specifically their preparation for both of them coming over to this world, there's ample reason to not get too down on Tara for not remembering this one aspect of the world.

I don't think there ever was any preparation for both of them coming over to this half of the world. I think the plan was for Andrea - and not Tara - to make a quick trip and then come home.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:

I don't think there ever was any preparation for both of them coming over to this half of the world. I think the plan was for Andrea - and not Tara - to make a quick trip and then come home.

'xactly my point. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Huh. Apparently even griffins can be distracted by cuteness. I very much doubt Tara was listening to a word Andrea was saying in the flashback. I bet she was just happy to see her all excited and nerdy and adorable.

6 hours ago, Matoyak said:

To be fair to her, though, we don't know when that flashback takes place, right? Andrea's been here for months, and the actual flashback could be years ago. Especially if this half of the world is a particular interest area for Andrea. If Tara is used to Andrea giving out random facts about this world, then it's easy to let it gloss over.

Exactly this. Whenever my best friend talks about video games, it all goes in from one ear and out from the other for me and I suspect it's the same for him when I talk about some things he's not interested in.

Granted, this particular information would have been actually useful to Tara if she'd bothered to pay attention to it, but I really can't blame her.

5 hours ago, Circe said:

This is the sort of thing I wish Dan would edit out.  It doesn't really advance the story line, only adds a little characterization, and while it is somewhat funny IMO it's not funny enough to justify spending an entire strip on it.  I'm probably in a minority there I just would rather see the plot move along more.

I have to agree. In fact, I feel like both this and the previous page were rather pointless. Of course, it's possible that the next page will add more to this conversation and we might learn something new, but I have no idea what was the point of having an entire page devoted to Charlotte correcting Diane's grammar. I get that Dan wanted to show us how the girls were doing, but couldn't he have had them talk about something a bit more relevant?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Scotty said:

So, sounds like Tara's "ancient" was from the main eight's half of the world and didn't come through with her. I guess his statement of "you're still on this half of the Earth?" should have been a giveaway that he wasn't from her half.

Even if he wouldn't, I'm sure he need to abide by local agreement.

6 hours ago, Matoyak said:

Point is that unless we learn this flashback is specifically their preparation for both of them coming over to this world, there's ample reason to not get too down on Tara for not remembering this one aspect of the world.

5 hours ago, Ser Pentrose said:

Furthermore I recall reading somewhere that when under stress it's harder to recall things, which is why people will be taking a test and totally blank out on the subject at hand. (Which is why doing relaxation exercises before a test can actually help you pass)

Good point. I was going to object that if it was that long ago, she wouldn't remember now either, but that can be explainable by the stress ...

5 hours ago, Circe said:

This is the sort of thing I wish Dan would edit out.  It doesn't really advance the story line, only adds a little characterization, and while it is somewhat funny IMO it's not funny enough to justify spending an entire strip on it.  I'm probably in a minority there I just would rather see the plot move along more.

It's definitely too funny to edit out, but on the other hand, yes, spending entire strip on it feels wasteful.

5 hours ago, Circe said:

there is big difference between not lying and telling the truth and I would expect someone with Tara's intelligence to understand that.

We don't know what exactly was the immortal saying to her. It's possible she WAS careful enough, at least on beginning.

1 hour ago, Don Edwards said:

I don't think there ever was any preparation for both of them coming over to this half of the world. I think the plan was for Andrea - and not Tara - to make a quick trip and then come home.

We still don't know why aren't griffins more common on EGS half of world, or why did griffin go to do the investigation instead of human. It's possible they actually broke some kind of law or rule by coming here and Andrea only risked it because it was supposed to be very quick AND because it seemed important. That she would never go to EGS half of world normally, much less Tara.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This probably belongs in in the pacing thread, but others have already been commenting so I might as well.  Today's strip, like the last one, will seem like very funny asides when we go back and binge read through "So A Date At The Mall" in the archives.  But in serial format, scenes like this do seem to slow the plot.

"Whoops"?  Really Tara?

Is there a travel agency, or even a version of AAA, on their half of the world that publishes travel guides for this side of the world?  That encyclopedic tome Andrea was reading doesn't seem like the kind of thing you can slip in your back pocket.  A guidebook, a map, and some currency exchange might have been quite helpful to both.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Is there a travel agency, or even a version of AAA, on their half of the world that publishes travel guides for this side of the world?  That encyclopedic tome Andrea was reading doesn't seem like the kind of thing you can slip in your back pocket.  A guidebook, a map, and some currency exchange might have been quite helpful to both.

There very obviously isn't: it would be more visible on EGS half of world. Unless Edward Verres is even better that he shown. Also, currency exchange? Modern currency is not easy to obtain without official, bureaucratically confirmed identity. Although ... sending some HUMAN through would definitely help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

We still don't know why aren't griffins more common on EGS half of world, or why did griffin go to do the investigation instead of human. It's possible they actually broke some kind of law or rule by coming here and Andrea only risked it because it was supposed to be very quick AND because it seemed important. That she would never go to EGS half of world normally, much less Tara.

I have a feeling that griffins don't exist on the EGS half of the world at all. However, I don't think Andrea and Tara broke any rules by coming to this side. Griffins and humans are clearly equals in their half of the world and since Andrea is a mage scientist, she was an ideal choice to send investigate a magical problem. She was probably told to remain hidden, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, SeriousJupiter said:
57 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

We still don't know why aren't griffins more common on EGS half of world, or why did griffin go to do the investigation instead of human. It's possible they actually broke some kind of law or rule by coming here and Andrea only risked it because it was supposed to be very quick AND because it seemed important. That she would never go to EGS half of world normally, much less Tara.

I have a feeling that griffins don't exist on the EGS half of the world at all. However, I don't think Andrea and Tara broke any rules by coming to this side. Griffins and humans are clearly equals in their half of the world and since Andrea is a mage scientist, she was an ideal choice to send investigate a magical problem. She was probably told to remain hidden, though.

To clarify, the rule I speak about wouldn't be about griffins specifically ; it's just that if no such rule exists, griffins (and possibly others - maybe there are dragons or unicorns on their half) would be likely more known on EGS's half. Instead, it seems that just like on our world, they are only mentioned in legends, which can be explained by fact they are not visiting in last few centuries.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Scotty said:

How so? We already knew that Tara was a little absent minded on some things especially when anxious about something, like not realizing that the reason Andrea hadn't returned yet was that she lost track of where the portal back was, instead she assumed Andrea was in trouble. Forgetting that Andrea had told her about the differences between Immortals and Ancients would fit in character for Tara.

It was only a feeling, but I'll try to examine my feeling. It retroactively changes the previous climax into a plot where there was conflict because someone was forgetful or being ditzy. Elliot and Nanase are acting as ciphers for the readers, reacting to a flashback they couldn't have seen. It makes Griffins have modern human sensibilities, like Tara calling Andrea nerdy, which is very video game culture.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They're not reacting to the flashback, they're reacting to Tara saying "whoops" after they heard Andrea say that she had told Tara about immortals having a different agreement which doesn't say anything about not lying.  Elliot's reaction is understandable, he could have been killed because Tara forgot that Immortals could lie in the main eight's half of the world. Nanase was reacting because she couldn't reach Elliot during the chase and thought he might have been killed. Of course in Nanase's case she now know's why she couldn't reach him but still she wouldn't have needed to worry about him if Tara remembered that little bit of trivia.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, vvaivi said:

It makes Griffins have modern human sensibilities, like Tara calling Andrea nerdy, which is very video game culture.

What made you think Griffins are not modern? As much time passed since Arthur on their half of world as on EGS's one. Also, I think most people would agree that reading books is more nerdy than playing video games.

(Note that "it was just feeling" would be valid answer.)

12 hours ago, Scotty said:

They're not reacting to the flashback, they're reacting to Tara saying "whoops" after they heard Andrea say that she had told Tara about immortals having a different agreement which doesn't say anything about not lying.

Exactly. The flashback is cute, but it's pretty easy to guess what that "whoops" meant even without seeing it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 31.3.2016 at 3:24 AM, hkmaly said:

To clarify, the rule I speak about wouldn't be about griffins specifically ; it's just that if no such rule exists, griffins (and possibly others - maybe there are dragons or unicorns on their half) would be likely more known on EGS's half. Instead, it seems that just like on our world, they are only mentioned in legends, which can be explained by fact they are not visiting in last few centuries.

A world with griffins, dragons and unicorns? I like the sound of that. :D

But seriously, we can't know for sure that they haven't visited the EGS half of the world for centuries. They may not have a lot of reasons to visit, but they seem to know some things about this side (the mages having spellbooks, immortals having different rules from Ancients) and I bet they come to visit every now and then to learn more, either by quietly observing or contacting DGB. That is, if DGB even knows about the other side of their world.

 

Edited by SeriousJupiter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, SeriousJupiter said:

U quelrja quyuch tulyuhhyumc, jlutemc umja amyuselmc? Yu ryupo cho ceamja eh chug. :D

Vag colyueacri, quo sum'g pmequ hel calo chug choi fubom'g byucyugoja cho EGS furh eh cho quelrja hel somgalyuoc. Choi nui meg fubo u reg eh loucemc geh byucyug, vag choi coon geh pmequ ceno chotc uveag chyuc cyujo (cho nutoc fubot ckoraveepc, yunnelgurc fubot jyuhholomg laroc hlen Umsyuomgc) umja Yu vog choi seno geh byucyug oboli mequ umja chom geh roulm nelo, oyuchol vi wyuogri evcolbot el semgusgot DGB. Chug yuc, yuh DGB obom pmequc uveag cho echol cyujo eh choyul quelrja.

The Moderator: Humorous though the intent here may have been, there will be no further postings in Uryumoco, Klingon, Bocce or any other made up languages here. These forums are made for posts in English. Further such 'pranks' as these will be treated as spam and will be deleted without notice and the user warned.

~tOH.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With people saying stuff like exposition sessions like these being awkward... That's the trouble with the episodic format of El Goonish Shive. Each issue has to entertain in and of itself for reasons I'm unsure on, which means we as readers catching each new update it'll be ok to read, but if we read them in one go, moments like this where the characters mostly just sit aroynd and get told the plot as has happened offpanel seems... Clunky, at best.

 

But then again, EGS has always had this, and its main strengthhas been and always is that real consideration is put into these talky Q&A moments where the world is built up from characters discussing the world.

 

It's not really a problem, per say, it's just awkward narratively whilst being interesting on an intellectual level. I'd read an essay Dan'd write about his setting thus far, detailing its many layers and facets, if he wrote one.

 

 

Still love it though. 

 

(plus this is the most negative in my life I have ever spoken about EGS' writing, so considering how positive this is mostly, I can prove quantatively that I want Mr Shive to go full steam ahead as is on his current course.)

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this