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ProfessorTomoe

Story: Monday, May 8th, 2017

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30 minutes ago, showler said:

I actually think this is more of a consequence of the writing.  Lot of years involved here and Dan has grown a lot.

I'm curious to see how he'll write his way out of it without making Mr. Verres look like a jerk.

I think Dan has matured in more than years judging from EGS. It's pretty obvious a lot of his characters have changed since the early days. But Mr. Verres' character hasn't so much. Edward has some silly elements (Charts, graphs, swamp gas, indifference to explosions in the basement) but he's probably the most sensible, stable, and serious character in El Goonish Shive. He's the dad a lot of us wish we had. Or, if you're as old as I am, the dad I wish I could have been.

Why is Tedd so conflicted about his girly looks? There could be a deeper motivations waiting to be revealed. Tedd looks like Nanase. And who is Nanase the spitting image of? Tedd could realize, especially as he approaches adulthood, that he looks so much like his mother that it must remind his father of her, the moreso when he's a girl. And it could make his mother's decision to leave him behind even more hurtful. That could mean those glasses were also there to hide that face from himself.

Oh, almost forgot. Tedd doesn't know yet that his mother had at least one other child. I'm betting Edward does know.

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52 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

I'll have to disagree.  Everybody has to learn something for the first time at some point.  The less breaks you cut people for knowledge they don't have, the more anger, alienation and misunderstanding you create and the gods know this part of life doesn't need any more of that...

I also disagree with you. When it comes to parenting, ignorance is NO excuse in the information age. Mr. Verres is well off, in a government position, has full access to the Internet and last but not least HE IS A PARENT WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR A CHILD. If he is worried about how his son develops, he has plenty of options. He could read parenting books. He could pay minimal attention to media debate about gender identities. He could do a bollocking Google search on 'gender issues' or 'gender identity.' I just did and found a MULTITUDE of links and resources that the man could spend, oh, as little as half an hour on reading if he thought that his son was worth that much time.

Or he could, like, go the classic route and just assume that he knows best, that he alone knows what is good for his son, try to 'straighten him out,' completely ignore his son's viewpoints. This method is amazing and I highly recommend it for any parent who wishes to completely alienate their child and drive a wedge between them that may take years or decades to work free again, if it is even possible. My father used it to great success, for example. I am sure he got a great deal of enjoyment from all the times I slammed the phone on him or all the mail I returned unopened. When the wedge between us was finally removed, it took outside intervention from someone I held in high respect to even begin to work it free. If that hadn't happened, my father and I might have been estranged to this day.

Also, you are getting things upside down. I am not hurting Mr. Verres -- I cannot. He is a fictional figure and I am completely certain that Dan could care less what I think about him. However, he is a character in a story where he is abusing and hurting his own son. I can despise a character who does that, even if he does it through well-meaning ignorance. And I do.

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6 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

I think Dan has matured in more than years judging from EGS. It's pretty obvious a lot of his characters have changed since the early days. But Mr. Verres' character hasn't so much. Edward has some silly elements (Charts, graphs, swamp gas, indifference to explosions in the basement) but he's probably the most sensible, stable, and serious character in El Goonish Shive. He's the dad a lot of us wish we had. Or, if you're as old as I am, the dad I wish I could have been.

I think Dan is still very much trying to figure out how to handle what happens between Tedd and Edward, it is a very delicate situation in terms of storytelling and it has to be told in a way that's believable. I can't blame Dan for dreading the day he needs to address this once and for all.

12 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

Why is Tedd so conflicted about his girly looks? There could be a deeper motivations waiting to be revealed. Tedd looks like Nanase. And who is Nanase the spitting image of? Tedd could realize, especially as he approaches adulthood, that he looks so much like his mother that it must remind his father of her, the moreso when he's a girl. And it could make his mother's decision to leave him behind even more hurtful. That could mean those glasses were also there to hide that face from himself.

I wondered if part of Edward's behaviour stems from what happened between him and Noriko as well, we know Edward made an effort to make sure Tedd had everything possible, he encouraged Tedd's research though he tried to make Tedd understand the dangers involved. He also sees the effect Grace has had on Tedd and has pretty much given them his blessing. Him doing background checks on all of Tedd's friends is disturbing, but considering how Tedd was years ago, Edward would have worried greatly about the possibility of someone taking advantage of Tedd, and I think Edward's probably feeling some relief Tedd's got 7 friends who'll look out for him now. But back on the subject of Noriko, I wonder if Edward's been seeing some of Noriko's behaviour developing in Tedd, like Tedd's obsession with the science of magic could be comparable to Noriko's obsession with her career.

Edward might fear the day he has to tell Tedd the truth about Noriko and pointing out anything Tedd does as being something Noriko once did, might cause damage as well. Not saying that spending lots of time transformed is something Noriko did but as you said, if Tedd looks soo much like his mother already, being in female form would make Edward uncomfortable not as much as Tedd being a girl, but reopening the wound the Noriko caused, and Edward can't just outright say "stop doing that, you look like your mother."

1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:

Oh, almost forgot. Tedd doesn't know yet that his mother had at least one other child. I'm betting Edward does know.

I am on the fence about this, we don't know how much Edward has been able to keep track of Noriko's activities since she left, official business probably, but private life, not so sure. If the reason for the divorce was Noriko having an affair and getting pregnant, then Edward would likely know of a half-brother/sister, but it's just as likely she hid that from Edward, or didn't have other children yet which would mean that any siblings of Tedd's could be several years younger.

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Regarding Edward: "Is Edward doing a bad thing?" and "Does Edward intend to alienate his child?" are two different questions.  It is entirely possible that Edward has no intent to alienate Tedd (and every intent not to) and is doing what he thinks is right, and also be doing things he shouldn't, not doing things he should, and doing things which will harm and/or alienate Tedd if he keeps doing them.

Regarding giving transformation magic to all trans people: keep in mind, most of the people we know in this comic are still in high school (not old enough to be responsible for a problem that big); many people, including them, don't really know about trans issues (at that age, I think I only had a very vague idea (if that) of what transgender meant, and I didn't really understand it until recently); and giving magic to everyone isn't simple or consequence-free (consider that Tedd does want to give magic to everyone, and hasn't yet).

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1 hour ago, The Old Hack said:

HE IS A PARENT WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR A CHILD. If he is worried about how his son develops, he has plenty of options. He could read parenting books. He could pay minimal attention to media debate about gender identities. He could do a bollocking Google search on 'gender issues' or 'gender identity.' I just did and found a MULTITUDE of links and resources that the man could spend, oh, as little as half an hour on reading if he thought that his son was worth that much time.

Why would Ed Verres research gender issues of any kind?  We know Tedd is genderfluid because Grace told him and us at the same time.  Not even Tedd knew Tedd was genderfluid prior.  Why would Ed Verres?  (Tedd knew he was different in some way, yes)  Knowing that Tedd had to deal with watching his mother walk out on him, it's easy for Ed Verres to conclude that the entire spectrum of Tedd 2.0 behaviors including Tedd's fetishes.and alienation are due to his mom.

I would expect Verres is familiar to some degree with the political debates though those may not be the most helpful things to pay attention to.  Politics is never a good medium for imparting useful information as there are huge signal-to-noise issues.

All parents drop the ball somewhere.  Demanding parental perfection is like demanding government perfection.  It's OK to want it but in reality you just have to settle for hoping they won't make too many egregious mistakes.  They're going to make some.   Ed Verres is a single parent whose job makes demands on him at odd hours and takes him out of town a lot.  That's an obvious point of failure and that is indeed what we see.

Ed Verres does not understand his son as well as we, his son or probably even he would like.  That's his failing, but it's a common parental issue even with cis-gendered parents and kids.  Despite, Verres has been tolerant of his son's actions, even actions he is uncomfortable with.  Verres hasn't tried to assert control of Tedd or force Tedd into a box of Verres' expectations.  You'll find that, while Tedd's situation is still emotionally very rough, there's a lot of things that commonly happen to GLBT kids in their families that were never inflicted on Tedd because Verres simply didn't go that route.

But yes Ed Verres doesn't understand Tedd and his lack of it withholds some important parental approval that Tedd really does need. 

Whatever Ed Verres' faults, I see no evidence of him choosing prejudice over his son.

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As much as Elliot might want to help this person, now he knows that transformation technology isn't going to work for much longer. If he gives this person a watch and next week it suddenly stops working, either because of a magic reset or the clog getting cleared out, that could hurt this person a lot more than if Elliot had done nothing. Elliot can't exactly give out magic watches to every transgender person in the world, and even if he did it would probably cause a reset.

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5 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

I personally think Ed Verres never picked up on the clues that might point to Tedd as genderfluid.  Tedd's actions process differently if one simply assumes he is straight.

I personally think Mr. V has never heard of genderfluid. Or maybe even transgender.

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11 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

Why would Ed Verres research gender issues of any kind?  We know Tedd is genderfluid because Grace told him and us at the same time.  Not even Tedd knew Tedd was genderfluid prior.  Why would Ed Verres?

Whatever Ed Verres' faults, I see no evidence of him choosing prejudice over his son.

Maybe the fact that his son is CONSTANTLY SWITCHING GENDERS might provide him with an important clue. Maybe the fact that HE HIMSELF is concerned about it might provide him with the motivation to look into the matter.

And a parent does not have to choose prejudice over a child. All they have to do is to display it repeatedly and constantly. Alienation and estrangement will take care of the rest.

As to the 'some parents are worse' argument, well, that's just bollocking wonderful. We can give Mr. Verres the 'Not Quite As Big An Arsehole As He Might Have Been' medal.

Against all the excuses offered for Mr. Verres, I have just one reply. His child no longer trusts him. His child is afraid of explaining their feelings to him. All other judgments, be they apologia or condemnations, are utterly irrelevant. Tedd is in pain, and Mr. Verres is its cause. I posit that this is consequence enough, and more than enough.

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29 minutes ago, Wanderer said:

As much as Elliot might want to help this person, now he knows that transformation technology isn't going to work for much longer. If he gives this person a watch and next week it suddenly stops working, either because of a magic reset or the clog getting cleared out, that could hurt this person a lot more than if Elliot had done nothing.

Good point. Especially considering the watches would DEFINITELY stop working - if the clog wouldn't be cleared out, the magic WILL reset. And, as already mentioned, TF gun is also time limited (and also top secret).

11 hours ago, Scotty said:

Tedd did say that he might be able to make wands based on his mark spell, so he could make the wand, use it on Sam, and make sure no one else learns about it.

Note that Elliot almost certainly doesn't know about this.

29 minutes ago, Wanderer said:

Elliot can't exactly give out magic watches to every transgender person in the world, and even if he did it would probably cause a reset.

I'm not sure Tedd would be able to make so many of them, they would have no means to distribute them AND the watches don't work outside Moperville.

23 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:
5 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

I personally think Ed Verres never picked up on the clues that might point to Tedd as genderfluid.  Tedd's actions process differently if one simply assumes he is straight.

I personally think Mr. V has never heard of genderfluid. Or maybe even transgender.

I think Mr. Verres DID heard about transgender, did some sneaky tests which had negative results YEARS AGO and decided that's not it. Genderfluid is harder to find informations about and was worse in past.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Him doing background checks on all of Tedd's friends is disturbing,

It feels disturbing, but because Tedd has access to government secrets, he may be REQUIRED to. Especially in case of people who do or may visit Tedd at home. So, it's not really weird that he does it.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

if Tedd looks soo much like his mother already, being in female form would make Edward uncomfortable not as much as Tedd being a girl, but reopening the wound the Noriko caused, and Edward can't just outright say "stop doing that, you look like your mother."

Yup, maybe both we and Tedd are reading those sights incorrectly ...

3 hours ago, showler said:

First, you have to consider that the purpose of having a "veil of secrecy" in a comic like this is to maintain some semblance of "our" world.  And in our world the government just voted to take away basic health care from millions of people for no reason.  It is not hard to consider that in the Shiveverse there is a large part of the government that is against using tech or magic to help people.  Especially people that they don't believe exist or don't believe should exist.  Verres has limited power to help people...pretty much his only choice would be to break the veil and I doubt that would work.  It certainly would sink him in a hurry.

Second, Uruyuom tech is inherently time-limited.  I don't believe we've seen any cases of a permanent transformation without mixing it with other magic or using it on a natural shapeshifter.   I wouldn't doubt that there are good hearted people who are trying to figure out a way to use the tech to help trans people (without revealing the existence of Uruyuoms to the public), but the time limitation would make that quite difficult.

Those "good hearted people" likely understand TF gun and magic LESS than Tedd does, so no wonder they can't find any solution.

But yes, even if they would find something, it would be hard to get this approved considering the source of such technology ... and not even Verres former position was high enough to change that.

Sure, Verres was arguing with his son about making magic public ... but that's because he wants to be good parent (doesn't matter if he is failing that or not, he definitely WANTS to) and making argument like "If you try to make magic public I will be forced to put you in DGB's jail before some other agent put both of us there so stop talking about it" isn't good parenting.

10 hours ago, Haylo said:
11 hours ago, Scotty said:

I'm thinking it's Sam as well, that caveat is actually irrelevant. You're probably thinking that it is because Sam is trans male and Elliot only has female transformations (aside from the cat form, and Elliot should be able to get some male transformations at some point now that magic's sorted out with him), but the person messaging Elliot doesn't know that, they're probably just thinking "if a guy could transform into a girl, then a girl must be able to transform into a guy, what Elliot knows might work for both genders."

The logic is probably that if Elliot can become Cheerleadra more than once then he must have some way to change back ( from female to male) in-between.

It's definitely more likely it's Sam than some completely new. Even if he would KNOW how Cheerleadra spell works - which he doesn't - it would still be best lead he has. Also, Sam wasn't originally planned ... maybe that Dan originally though about the other direction of trans but then decided that Sam would work as well.

10 hours ago, Scotty said:

assume Felix's spell is the same as Tedd's

I would consider this bold assumption. Temporary change would be simpler and considering Felix can re-cast the spell it would suffice.

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46 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

Maybe the fact that his son is CONSTANTLY SWITCHING GENDERS might provide him with an important clue. Maybe the fact that HE HIMSELF is concerned about it might provide him with the motivation to look into the matter.

Not if he is convinced he already knows why.

47 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

As to the 'some parents are worse' argument, well, that's just bollocking wonderful. We can give Mr. Verres the 'Not Quite As Big An Arsehole As He Might Have Been' medal.

A parent that doesn't get you but is not abusive and is accepting enough to let you live life on your terms?  I tend to think a lot of GLBT kids would consider that a serious upgrade in situation.

51 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

Against all the excuses offered for Mr. Verres, I have just one reply. His child no longer trusts him. His child is afraid of explaining their feelings to him. All other judgments, be they apologia or condemnations, are utterly irrelevant. Tedd is in pain, and Mr. Verres is its cause. I posit that this is consequence enough, and more than enough.

No argument, Ed Verres is guilty here. 

But it brings me back to the simple fact that every parent screws up somewhere.  What is so unforgivable about Ed Verres so as to deny him human fallibility?

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30 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:
1 hour ago, The Old Hack said:

Maybe the fact that his son is CONSTANTLY SWITCHING GENDERS might provide him with an important clue. Maybe the fact that HE HIMSELF is concerned about it might provide him with the motivation to look into the matter.

Not if he is convinced he already knows why.

Especially considering that between Tedd, Sarah, Elliot and Ellen we can't exactly prove that long term use of transformation DOESN'T affect person's gender and sexual identity.

30 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:
1 hour ago, The Old Hack said:

As to the 'some parents are worse' argument, well, that's just bollocking wonderful. We can give Mr. Verres the 'Not Quite As Big An Arsehole As He Might Have Been' medal.

A parent that doesn't get you but is not abusive and is accepting enough to let you live life on your terms?  I tend to think a lot of GLBT kids would consider that a serious upgrade in situation.

I don't think this is limited to GLBT kids. In fact, considering state of world, I suspect that majority of ALL children don't have such luck ... "letting you live life on your terms" doesn't sound like something likely to happen outside democracies, and how far are they in India with getting rid of caste system? (Rhetorical question, answer would be offtopic.)

Also, this reminds me the unofficial competition for the "worst mother ever" title in Drowtales ... let's compare him to other parents INSIDE EGS: Noriko? ... Mrs Kitsune? Pandora? Mrs. Pompoms? Mr. Pompoms? Grace? ... wait, it's not her fault she's dead. Mr. Brown? Dunkels?

I think he would end in middle.

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8 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

I don't think this is limited to GLBT kids. In fact, considering state of world, I suspect that majority of ALL children don't have such luck ... "letting you live life on your terms" doesn't sound like something likely to happen outside democracies, and how far are they in India with getting rid of caste system? (Rhetorical question, answer would be offtopic.)

i

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7 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

let's compare him to other parents INSIDE EGS: Noriko? ... Mrs Kitsune? Pandora? Mrs. Pompoms? Mr. Pompoms? Grace? ... wait, it's not her fault she's dead. Mr. Brown?

Roster not quite complete. Parents who've actually been shown or heard to speak include:

  • Ashley's mom and/or dad
  • Mr. Kitsune

We've had quite a bit of discussion about Tedd's dad in this thread. Here's perhaps another unsolved mystery about Edward Verres: Has Old Blue Hair ever said anything about his ex-wife except this?

 

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26 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Also, this reminds me the unofficial competition for the "worst mother ever" title in Drowtales ... let's compare him to other parents INSIDE EGS: Noriko? ... Mrs Kitsune? Pandora? Mrs. Pompoms? Mr. Pompoms? Grace? ... wait, it's not her fault she's dead. Mr. Brown? Dunkels?

I think he would end in middle.

It seems to me the Dunkels with their curiously unflappable acceptance easily take the top spot.  We don't really know the Browns all that well. Nanase seems to deal with her mother's drive to excellence (a mixed bag of plusses and minuses) much easier than Emily from Misfile does.  Pandora seems to have done a decent job too,  Noriko and both of Susan's parents take the bottom slots.  With Noriko at the absolute bottom, then Susan's dad, then Susan's mom.

Reading into Justin's story a little, I'd guess that his parents were in a similar boat as Ed Verres where they really weren't able to engage with their child.

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32 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:
49 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

let's compare him to other parents INSIDE EGS: Noriko? ... Mrs Kitsune? Pandora? Mrs. Pompoms? Mr. Pompoms? Grace? ... wait, it's not her fault she's dead. Mr. Brown?

Roster not quite complete. Parents who've actually been shown or heard to speak include:

  • Ashley's mom and/or dad
  • Mr. Kitsune

Well, I think parents who are not BOTH shown and heard can't be compared.

(Although ... well ... looking at Ashley, her parents MIGHT be even better than Dunkels ...)

32 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

We've had quite a bit of discussion about Tedd's dad in this thread. Here's perhaps another unsolved mystery about Edward Verres: Has Old Blue Hair ever said anything about his ex-wife except this?

Technically, he did mentioned her here ... but yes that didn't added much details. Not only Raven, but even Agent Wolf talked about her more.

25 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

It seems to me the Dunkels with their curiously unflappable acceptance easily take the top spot.

Agree, although as you see in provided image, it might NOT be completely without problems. If your parents don't agree with how you choose your friends, it could hurt you.

25 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

Nanase seems to deal with her mother's drive to excellence (a mixed bag of plusses and minuses) much easier than Emily from Misfile does.

Seems to, and yes the drive to excellence is likely the most problematic part, but note also she classified Nanase's sexuality as "just a phase" and regarding the trust issue ... well, Nanase doesn't trust her mother, her mother doesn't trust her and they both are correct that the other is hiding something from them up to direct lie.

25 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

Pandora seems to have done a decent job too

She likely had own "drive to excellence" problems ... and she seems to get worse with age.

25 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

With Noriko at the absolute bottom, then Susan's dad, then Susan's mom.

Hmmm ... I wouldn't be sure except Susan recently directly said there were good years, so ...

25 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

Reading into Justin's story a little, I'd guess that his parents were in a similar boat as Ed Verres where they really weren't able to engage with their child.

Good point - we never saw them but doesn't seem like they reacted correctly. And, well ... WHY didn't we saw them? I mean, sure, might be just Dan doesn't want to draw them, but maybe Justin really lives with his uncle and/or alone because he wouldn't feel welcomed with his parents (although I don't thing they would directly throw him out).

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

It seems to me the Dunkels with their curiously unflappable acceptance easily take the top spot.  We don't really know the Brows all that well. Nanase seems to deal with her mother's drive to excellence (a mixed bag of plusses and minuses) much easier than Emily from Misfile does.  Pandora seems to have done a decent job too,  Noriko and both of Susan's parents take the bottom slots.  With Noriko at the absolute bottom, then Susan's dad, then Susan's mom.

Reading into Justin's story a little, I'd guess that his parents were in a similar boat as Ed Verres where they really weren't able to engage with their child.

Wait, I think you got it confuse, the list is for "worst parents" the Dunkels shouldn't be at the top. :)

Nanase's mom is homophobic though, probably due to the fact that she had high hopes for Nanase to give her grandkids rather than the whole "insanity" comment that Susan's mom gave, but still calling it a phase isn't excusable. Mind you we didn't see Mama Kitsune make any comment about it on New Years, so it's possible that she either sees Nanase being happy with Ellen and thought "she was never like this with any of the boyfriends she had, even Elliot." and changed her mind about it. That would put her with Melissa who no longer acts like Justin's going through a phase. Mr Kitsune is a different story, the only dialog we've see was when he "scolded" Akiko for wandering too far from him at the mall, and punishment was getting only one cookie. I don't think he shared the same opinion as Mama Kitsune about Nanase being gay though despite lack of evidence to support or prove otherwise, so I'd probably put him with the Dunkels

As for Justin, it sounded like his parents took finding out about him being gay badly, I think only his uncle took pity on him and helped by giving him a job at the comic shop. We don't know what Justin's father said on the phone when Justin said he was going to stay over night at Susan's, but Justin's response made it sound like his father might have been hopeful that Justin being gay was just a phase as well.

The only stuff we saw from the Browns was how Mr. Brown wouldn't let Sarah sleep in on Saturdays. I think Sarah really only has issues with Carol.

Mrs Pompoms would probably rate with Justin's parents in terms of tolerance, allowing Susan to consider being a lesbian for the sake of avoiding being hurt by men doesn't make things right, though its possible her homophobia might just be towards men, wait is it still homophobia to be accepting of one gender being gay but not another? Sounds more like selective homophobia which would be rather hypocritical.

Mr Pompoms certainly at least shares top spot with Noriko, we certainly don't know enough about the exact circumstances of the Verre's divorce, Noriko could have become a cheating cheater as well in her quest for an offspring suitable enough to be her apprentice.

Pandora's had it rough really, her experience of falling in love, making a family and then losing part of it has made her very protective of her remaining family and those she comes to consider extended family, but it's also made her somewhat heavy handed in how she treats her son, not resetting when she should have has also played a big factor in making her a bit reckless

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17 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Agree, although as you see in provided image, it might NOT be completely without problems. If your parents don't agree with how you choose your friends, it could hurt you.

Good point.  The Dunkels are accepting about what is.  Elliot's a girl now.  Accepted.  But not without their own opinions or imposed limits or rules.  In some ways Tedd gets more leeway from Ed Verres than Elliot gets from his parents.

20 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Hmmm ... I wouldn't be sure except Susan recently directly said there were good years, so .

I'm sure the years before the cheater's cheating was revealed were good years for Susan.  Maybe not her mother however.  When Susan found out her dad cheats and when her mother found out may not have been the same time.  Her parents could have been keeping up pretenses for her sake.

 

23 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Good point - we never saw them but doesn't seem like they reacted correctly. And, well ... WHY didn't we saw them? I mean, sure, might be just Dan doesn't want to draw them, but maybe Justin really lives with his uncle and/or alone because he wouldn't feel welcomed with his parents (although I don't thing they would directly throw him out).

Their lack of presence in Justin's narrative is itself suggestive that they didn't know what to do. 

With the obvious addition that his uncle had an idea and the parents let him run with it.

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18 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

Well that only proves he lives with his dad but good point.

19 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

Their lack of presence in Justin's narrative is itself suggestive that they didn't know what to do. 

... he might be living with them and still not feel welcomed, though.

12 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Nanase's mom is homophobic though, probably due to the fact that she had high hopes for Nanase to give her grandkids rather than the whole "insanity" comment that Susan's mom gave, but still calling it a phase isn't excusable. Mind you we didn't see Mama Kitsune make any comment about it on New Years, so it's possible that she either sees Nanase being happy with Ellen and thought "she was never like this with any of the boyfriends she had, even Elliot." and changed her mind about it.

I don't think she completely changed her mind, she just isn't pressing the issue. And, yes, she might totally stop complaining after Nanase and Ellen give her grandchildren :)

16 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Noriko could have become a cheating cheater as well in her quest for an offspring suitable enough to be her apprentice.

Unlikely. IMHO she's much more likely to divorce and THEN go on quest for suitable offspring than to cheat.

17 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:
43 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Hmmm ... I wouldn't be sure except Susan recently directly said there were good years, so .

I'm sure the years before the cheater's cheating was revealed were good years for Susan.  Maybe not her mother however.  When Susan found out her dad cheats and when her mother found out may not have been the same time.  Her parents could have been keeping up pretenses for her sake.

Mrs. Pompoms doesn't seem like THAT kind of person. She might have suspicion, or maybe she caught him once already and gave him one last chance, but definitely didn't know he's cheating constantly.

 

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In Mamase's possible defense, I imagine that after Noriko left she angrily swore some oaths that she still feels bound by... and if she were to admit that Nanase's relationship with another girl is not "just a phase" those oaths would require her to throw her daughter out. She refuses to do that, therefore it must - as in, Mamase insists - be just a phase, and remain so at least until Nanase is established and stable in her own life outside Mamase's household.

I have no evidence specifically in favor of this theory. But I think it fits what we know of her. Including her ability to recognize inconvenient truths and then completely ignore them.

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Mrs. Pompoms doesn't seem like THAT kind of person. She might have suspicion, or maybe she caught him once already and gave him one last chance, but definitely didn't know he's cheating constantly.

Maybe Susan's mom knew her husband was cheating all the time, but having a woman over to the house and exposing Susan to his cheating was too damned much.

As I think I've mentioned maybe a few times before, we don't know whether Susan's mom knows or ever knew the woman Susan caught her dad with. If Mrs. Pompoms knows that woman was Susan's real mother, it's a whole new and very large kettle of fish.

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24 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:

In Mamase's possible defense, I imagine that after Noriko left she angrily swore some oaths that she still feels bound by... and if she were to admit that Nanase's relationship with another girl is not "just a phase" those oaths would require her to throw her daughter out. She refuses to do that, therefore it must - as in, Mamase insists - be just a phase, and remain so at least until Nanase is established and stable in her own life outside Mamase's household.

I have no evidence specifically in favor of this theory. But I think it fits what we know of her. Including her ability to recognize inconvenient truths and then completely ignore them.

... if that's the case, Nanase will have deja-vu when she finds out :)

But yes, while I don't see what would Nanase's relationship with girl have anything to do with Noriko, feeling bound by some oath does seem matching Mrs. Kitsune personality.

Although ... wait. It might work together, actually. The oath wasn't about the relationship. The oath is something like preserving family legacy and bloodline or something and Nanase not having child would be serious danger to that ...

8 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

Maybe Susan's mom knew her husband was cheating all the time, but having a woman over to the house and exposing Susan to his cheating was too damned much.

No. Unless ... the issue wasn't (just) exposing Susan. The issue was that after this, she couldn't even PRETEND to not know.

 

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30 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Although ... wait. It might work together, actually. The oath wasn't about the relationship. The oath is something like preserving family legacy and bloodline or something and Nanase not having child would be serious danger to that ...

I could see this as a possibility, Mama Kitsune might not be aware that Noriko had at least one other child, and so felt that the duty to carry on the family line fell to her.

The fact that Mama Kitsune's being so secretive, "the less she knows about what I know, the better." Could be her way of trying to keep Nanase from making the same mistakes. It's interesting that at first, Mama Kitsune is hard on Nanase making sure she's studying and such. but she seems to relax that attitude a bit after the incident with Abraham. It's like, now that she's knows that her daughter is capable of being selfless and fight to protect others, she isn't worried about Nanase becoming like Noriko but she was worried that Nanase's actions would draw her into danger, maybe she knew about Noriko's exploits and worried that someone might target Noriko's family for revenge. It's probably too early to tell if Akiko is capable of the same level of magic as Nanase, I can see Mama Kitsune refusing to subject her children to the same torture that Noriko put Tedd through.

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8 hours ago, showler said:

I wouldn't be surprised if this story goes into some of the reasons why magic and Uruyuom tech isn't used to help everyone, not just trans people.  It's gotta be something Dan has thought a lot about.

I suspect that groups like Germahn Labs are working on reverse engineering Uryuom tech and magic.  But how do they introduce this tech to the public when they figure it out?

Why can't alien tech and magic be freely used to help many people?  This is the critical question.  I know the story concentrates on the TG issues, but there are plenty of other problems that could use some assistance.

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