Story: Monday, May 8th, 2017

[hkmaly 490]

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

The fact that Mama Kitsune's being so secretive, "the less she knows about what I know, the better." Could be her way of trying to keep Nanase from making the same mistakes. It's interesting that at first, Mama Kitsune is hard on Nanase making sure she's studying and such. but she seems to relax that attitude a bit after the incident with Abraham. It's like, now that she's knows that her daughter is capable of being selfless and fight to protect others, she isn't worried about Nanase becoming like Noriko but she was worried that Nanase's actions would draw her into danger, maybe she knew about Noriko's exploits and worried that someone might target Noriko's family for revenge

I'm not sure she relaxed that much ...

But, generally, it's hard to analyze her motivation if we don't know what exactly she knows and what happened with Noriko. I think she is walking on a thin line: on one hand, she does want her daughter to continue family legacy - or at least being able to defend herself from those who target family for revenge - on the other she doesn't want repeat of Noriko. She might've decided that the best way is to hide as much as possible from her until she is mature enough, but at the same time she can't have her completely untrained till then. Therefore, anime martial arts (she might've even be aware this could eventually awaken her), making sure she is used to study hard so she wouldn't have problems starting studying magic ...

The incident with Abraham might've really made her realize that she is endangered. Might've also made her realize she is already capable of defending herself - I think she knew Nanase awakened, but likely didn't considered what she knew about her spell as sufficient (and for good reason). Or, yes, the fact her daughter is protecting others might've been the new part. Although ... I suspect Noriko also decided to protect others. She just didn't included her family to be in need of protection ...

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

It's probably too early to tell if Akiko is capable of the same level of magic as Nanase, I can see Mama Kitsune refusing to subject her children to the same torture that Noriko put Tedd through.

Tedd is only scared of the analyzer want because it was used on him very often while he was very young. Single scan at reasonable age, say 4, isn't going to scare the child. But, either Akiko didn't tested well, or Mama Kitsune considers the risk one of her children not ending well despite her efforts too big. She might consider third child. Or, more likely, she might regret not having third child earlier, as I suppose it's too late for her now.

1 hour ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

I suspect that groups like Germahn Labs are working on reverse engineering Uryuom tech and magic.  But how do they introduce this tech to the public when they figure it out?

"Reverse engineering"? They should be able to get blueprints and source code. More likely, they are working on adapting Uryuom technology to human needs. Or, well, translating the documentation.

1 hour ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Why can't alien tech and magic be freely used to help many people?  This is the critical question.  I know the story concentrates on the TG issues, but there are plenty of other problems that could use some assistance.

Uryuom magic is likely ONLY useful on transformation. Their technology in general, however ... they seem capable of interstellar travel, possibly even FTL. They likely have LOT of useful things. Introducing them too fast might have negative effect on human ability to continue working on their own technology, but Uryuoms are on Earth long time. Why don't we see at least something? Or .... do we?

Maybe the reason they got from landphones to smart phones so fast in EGS is because they used informations from Uryuoms to speed up the developement. Maybe they spent last 20 years building fusion power plant - and because DGB checked the plans with Uryuoms, they know it will work, despite most people thinking it's just experimental prototype. Maybe they have working antigravitation in airplanes and we just didn't noticed because we never saw airplane in EGS nor it was talked about it.

There is lot we could've missed just because it wasn't in focus. We assume EGS world is generally same as our own except magic and aliens and both are hidden ... but it's just assumption.

 

[The Old Hack 2,448]

6 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

Not if he is convinced he already knows why.

A parent that doesn't get you but is not abusive and is accepting enough to let you live life on your terms?  I tend to think a lot of GLBT kids would consider that a serious upgrade in situation.

Deliberate ignorance is still ignorance. In fact, it is worse, because it will not accept correction.

The entire point of Tedd's feeling is that Mr. Verres is NOT accepting.

And again. "Stop whining just because your dad keeps beating you. There are other kids who get much worse beatings and far more severe abuse, so BE HAPPY!" Yeah, definite Father of the Year material there.

Last: I despise Edward Verres not simply for his failings but for his failure to realise even that he has a responsibility he is not meeting. And I do not need to justify that. You may find it acceptable. Fine. I do not want to dictate how you should feel. But I find his flaws all the more offensive for the fact that he COULD do better but is too intellectually stagnant or lazy to even try. Yes, the man has good traits and has done good things. But they do not cancel out the ill he has inflicted and still is inflicting. I expected and expect better of him. And until he finally wakes up to what he is doing and starts to correct himself, I will remain angry at him.

[hkmaly 490]

1 hour ago, The Old Hack said:

Deliberate ignorance is still ignorance. In fact, it is worse, because it will not accept correction.

So far, noone tried to correct him. He is convinced enough to not actively seek correction, but that doesn't seem he won't accept it if someone - possibly not one of the children - will explain it to him.

1 hour ago, The Old Hack said:

But I find his flaws all the more offensive for the fact that he COULD do better but is too intellectually stagnant or lazy to even try.

Well, if everyone would be already perfect, there would be no character development and the comics would be less interesting because of it ...

[chridd 31]

1 hour ago, The Old Hack said:

Deliberate ignorance is still ignorance. In fact, it is worse, because it will not accept correction.

I don't see any reason to believe it's deliberate.  As far as we know, Tedd hasn't tried talking to him about it (and probably wouldn't have known what to say if he did); and as for seeking information, remember that even Tedd, who has a reason for looking it up for himself, didn't know, nor did Elliot (who is both Tedd's friend and potentially has a personal reason).  And even if he did, there's no guarantee he'd find accurate information.

How Edward has acted has caused harm, and I would not want someone to act like he did.  At the same time, I don't think he intended any harm, and we don't have any reason to believe he was knowingly avoiding something he should have been doing.  Those can both be true at the same time.

[Scotty 1,061]

5 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Although ... I suspect Noriko also decided to protect others. She just didn't included her family to be in need of protection ...

I suspect that their family originally had the duty of "protect the village" or "protect the royal family" which would be seen as an honorable job. Noriko might have decided to "protect the world" which sound honorable, but if she's attempting to do so alone and/or for some sort of gain, she'd be considered acting recklessly and selfishly which wouldn't be honorable, heck her treatment of Tedd and putting the desire for an apprentice over having a family is selfish, she probably felt it was her duty alone to carry on the family line and it turned into an obsession regardless of whether or not Mama Kitsune was capable of doing so. We don't know if Noriko keeps track of what's happening in Moperville so we don't know if she knows that Nanase has awakened, but if she does know, I wonder how she feels about it? Relief that the family line has continued for one more generation? Anger that her sister was able to do what she couldn't? Or still feels it's up to her to do so because Nanase is gay and she believes it's unlikely for Nanase to have children and continue the family line?

Either way, it's clear that Mama Kistune believes Noriko dishonored the family.

[The Old Hack 2,448]

3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Well, if everyone would be already perfect, there would be no character development and the comics would be less interesting because of it ...

Certainly. But my opinion of the characters is informed by the way they have acted and how they presently act, not of how they may potentially act in the future. Wouldn't it be rather irrational of me to consider, say, Diane an irresponsible driver because she might in some future comic hit somebody in her car and then drive off without helping?

 

3 hours ago, chridd said:

I don't see any reason to believe it's deliberate.  As far as we know, Tedd hasn't tried talking to him about it (and probably wouldn't have known what to say if he did); and as for seeking information, remember that even Tedd, who has a reason for looking it up for himself, didn't know, nor did Elliot (who is both Tedd's friend and potentially has a personal reason).  And even if he did, there's no guarantee he'd find accurate information.

How Edward has acted has caused harm, and I would not want someone to act like he did.  At the same time, I don't think he intended any harm, and we don't have any reason to believe he was knowingly avoiding something he should have been doing.  Those can both be true at the same time.

I was not stating that Edward's ignorance was deliberate, merely that of the two forms of ignorance I despise deliberate ignorance the most. Not that I have much fondness for the lazy and careless form of ignorance that stems from not bothering to discover if you might be missing something.

As to intentions, they are worthless on their own. Results count. In fact, they are everything. And the present result we have is that Mr. Verres is alienating the son/daughter he is responsible for. If he later on wakes up to his mistake and deals responsibly with it, I will be relieved and far more inclined to think favourably of him. As it is, the parents that send their child to reparative therapy to be 'cured' of being homosexual/transsexual may have the best of intentions. They are still harming their child and making matters worse.

[Tom Sewell 268]

Here's something else Edward may be keeping from Tedd: He just might know about that secret second purpose that Tedd won't be eligible for if he finds out about it.

[The Old Hack 2,448]

13 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

Here's something else Edward may be keeping from Tedd: He just might know about that secret second purpose that Tedd won't be eligible for if he finds out about it.

I doubt it. Said purpose is almost certainly related to what happens in the case of a system change. And since Mr. Verres does not seem to be aware that Arthur is aiming for forcing a system change, it seems very likely that he is not even aware that system changes might occur. The knowledge can't be common; even Pandora only realised because she had to dig around in the memories of previous incarnations.

I might be wrong, of course; the above is merely my impression.

[Scotty 1,061]

I want to take Tedd and Elliot as a similar case here, we saw early on that Elliot reacted in much the same way as Edward, Elliot questioned why Tedd would turn himself into a girl multiple times, he was even wary that Tedd might have a more perverted motive for helping him find a way to end the energy buildups though that turned out to be not true which I think might have been the point Elliot started to realize that Tedd's transforming might be due to something more than wanting to take a peek like "of all the different forms Tedd could use in his research, he always chooses female forms, and if he's not using them for perverted reasons, then there must be some other reason for it". Of course Elliot would have assumed that just not drawing any attention to it anymore would be enough, but the damage from his earlier comments would have already had an effect on Tedd, who developed a fear that Elliot would react badly if Tedd chose to permanently be female, which turned out to not be the case, but it wasn't until a little later that Elliot came to realize that he had hurt Tedd with his earlier comments, even if that wasn't his intention.

Edward could very well be in the same boat Elliot was, with the disadvantage of not having the perspective that Elliot had. Edward sees Tedd playing around with female forms and Tedd's used excuses like "it's a vacation" or "it's for science" or some such thing and so Edward would believe Tedd might be abusing the TFG. Edward wouldn't dare try to take the the TFG away from Tedd because it would risk Tedd going back to the way he was before the gun, so Edward acknowledges that the way Tedd is now is better, but he's hung up on "why female forms?". Edward might have tried to get Tedd to talk about it, but if Tedd insisted that "anyone with transformation tech would experiment with being the opposite sex" then Edward might be at a loss about what to say about it.

Maybe Edward has considered the possibility of Tedd being trans, but hasn't said anything because he expects Tedd to deny it, even something like "if you prefer to be this way, it's ok" might be seconded guessed as being responded to with "it's not that!" and a couple weeks ago (comic time) that might have been the case. Now that Tedd's realized what transgender is and being genderfluid, he does have a proper response if Edward were to ask again, but there's that fear from those other comments that makes Tedd so hesitant about saying anything. There basically needs to be a moment where Edward makes the first move like Elliot did, but it's more likely that someone needs to point out that Edward's comments were hurtful before that, rather than after.

[Nayl 13]

Hi.  I just wanted to point out that this particular installment really points up how much Dan's writing and overall scripting has improved from the beginning, along with his art.  I've always seen this strip in terms of fantasy archetypes - Elliot is a paladin, Tedd a wizard, and so on.  Elliot has always been compelled to do the right thing, and has always struggled a bit with just what that means.  This strip is another step in his journey to finding and defining his cause, and its got some huge implications.  Remember Tedd's argument with his dad about magic?  I'm guessing Elliot is going to have a similar "discussion," and possibly we will finally get some exposition (which as I recall Mr. Verres is a fount of) on what Mr. Verres really thinks about the whole gender bending thing.  I continue to suspect that Mr. V's attitude about Tedd is a little more complicated than "that's just wrong!"  and I look forward to seeing that explored.

[Scotty 1,061]

16 minutes ago, Nayl said:

Hi.  I just wanted to point out that this particular installment really points up how much Dan's writing and overall scripting has improved from the beginning, along with his art.  I've always seen this strip in terms of fantasy archetypes - Elliot is a paladin, Tedd a wizard, and so on.  Elliot has always been compelled to do the right thing, and has always struggled a bit with just what that means.  This strip is another step in his journey to finding and defining his cause, and its got some huge implications.  Remember Tedd's argument with his dad about magic?  I'm guessing Elliot is going to have a similar "discussion," and possibly we will finally get some exposition (which as I recall Mr. Verres is a fount of) on what Mr. Verres really thinks about the whole gender bending thing.  I continue to suspect that Mr. V's attitude about Tedd is a little more complicated than "that's just wrong!"  and I look forward to seeing that explored.

Yeah, I was originally thinking that it would be Grace that breaks the silence between Edward and Tedd, but I'm now thinking that it could very well be Elliot that points out what Edward's been doing to Tedd.

[Vorlonagent 442]

9 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

Deliberate ignorance is still ignorance. In fact, it is worse, because it will not accept correction.

The entire point of Tedd's feeling is that Mr. Verres is NOT accepting.

And again. "Stop whining just because your dad keeps beating you. There are other kids who get much worse beatings and far more severe abuse, so BE HAPPY!" Yeah, definite Father of the Year material there.

Last: I despise Edward Verres not simply for his failings but for his failure to realise even that he has a responsibility he is not meeting. And I do not need to justify that. You may find it acceptable. Fine. I do not want to dictate how you should feel. But I find his flaws all the more offensive for the fact that he COULD do better but is too intellectually stagnant or lazy to even try. Yes, the man has good traits and has done good things. But they do not cancel out the ill he has inflicted and still is inflicting. I expected and expect better of him. And until he finally wakes up to what he is doing and starts to correct himself, I will remain angry at him.

Understanding is a three-edged sword.

[Aura Guardian 57]

Edward is trying. In his ignorance, he came to an incorrect conclusion, and proceeding from that is why this problem has happened. But he's trying. It's less that he doesn't know about the responsibility he's not meeting, it's that he has an incorrect understanding of it which needs (well, to a large degree - it's not absolute) an external force to correct it. Sort of like Larry at the card game tournament.

[The Old Hack 2,448]

The Moderator: Thread locked due to the fact that if I answer the last response the way I desire to, I will be violating my own forum rules.