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      Welcome!   03/05/2016

      Welcome, everyone, to the new 910CMX Community Forums. I'm still working on getting them running, so things may change.  If you're a 910 Comic creator and need your forum recreated, let me know and I'll get on it right away.  I'll do my best to make this new place as fun as the last one!
Tom Sewell

Story Thursday May 18, 2017

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6 hours ago, animalia said:

Raising kids together doesn't necessarily mean the kids belong to both parents. Before genetic testing was possible songbirds were thought to be monogamous, now it is known that they are incredibly promiscuous.

I wasn't talking about genetics in that thread, but about the fact that a same-sex couple of a very distant species has been devoted enough long-term enough to raise a family together.

3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

The definition of fittest is that you get biggest number of your children to reproduction age.

Or, get the children of close relatives (who share a fair portion of your genes) to reproductive age.

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32 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:
45 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

He will still lose if we manage to go extinct. There are no aquatic animals descendant from him for example ... as I say, long term.

For now, hypothetical ancestor of all eukaryotes still don't have their victory secured.

Sure thing. Mind you, I still feel safe in stating that both Genghis and that hypothetical proto-eukaryote made a good go at it.

Cyanobacteria also made a good go at it, but ...

31 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:
33 minutes ago, animalia said:

I am not positive but I believe the factor that chance has on evolution is called Field Of Bullets

Or alternately Huge Bollocking Asteroid From Outer Space.

Our ancestors already survived several.

29 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:
3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

The definition of fittest is that you get biggest number of your children to reproduction age.

Or, get the children of close relatives (who share a fair portion of your genes) to reproductive age.

Getting your own children to reproductive age is better, but yes, this helps too.

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15 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

Meh. I'll settle for having a net positive effect on the species. If I can manage that, I'll consider myself ahead of the game.

Ah, yes, passing on memes versus genes.  (In the original sense of meme, not the current internet-fad usage.)

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25 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:
36 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Getting your own children to reproductive age is better, but yes, this helps too.

Meh. I'll settle for having a net positive effect on the species. If I can manage that, I'll consider myself ahead of the game.

That's in principle same strategy, just with "close relatives" not being so close.

Success of pack animals suggests that helping even members of species who are not your relatives is beneficial. And considering some challenges before our species, cooperation on level of whole species seem like good idea. On the other hand, after we overcame those challenges, the people who managed to get more children to that point would be in better position than you ...

(If we DON'T overcame those challenges, it will probably not matter.)

8 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

Ah, yes, passing on memes versus genes.

Oh yes. That's also good idea, but I'm afraid J. K. Rowling is way ahead of us.

8 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

In the original sense of meme, not the current internet-fad usage

Current internet-fad usage memes ARE special cases of original sense memes.

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Chickens (and some other bird species, including modern chickens' wild ancestor, the Jungle Fowl) seem to follow the "close relative" strategy pretty effectively. Hens of the same flock lay their eggs in a communal nest, and once a suitable number of eggs are in the nest (usually about a dozen +/- 4 for most breeds), one hen will become "broody" and incubate the eggs, leaving the others free to continue egg-laying. Broody hens pluck their own breast feathers to create a warm, moist environment underneath themselves, and rarely leave the nest at all for the 21 days it takes for the eggs to hatch--she will go almost entirely without food, but will get up to fill up on water occasionally. Once the chicks are hatched, she will supervise and protect them until they're big enough to take care of themselves. The mother hen does not show any preference for her own genetic offspring, nor do any of the chickens seem to care who the chicks "belong" to. It's common to have a broody hen incubate and then raise young of entirely different breeds, and not that uncommon for them to raise young of other species, such as quail, ducks, turkeys, or wild birds.

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2 minutes ago, onfurtherreview said:

It's common to have a broody hen incubate and then raise young of entirely different breeds, and not that uncommon for them to raise young of other species, such as quail, ducks, turkeys, or wild birds.

I would argue that this present flaw in the method. But, based on chicken not being extinct yet, it's not a serious flaw.

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6 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

I would argue that this present flaw in the method. But, based on chicken not being extinct yet, it's not a serious flaw.

Wild chickens aren't all that numerous.  The rest of them are selected on factors a lot more commercial than whose eggs they brood.

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2 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:
11 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

I would argue that this present flaw in the method. But, based on chicken not being extinct yet, it's not a serious flaw.

Wild chickens aren't all that numerous.  The rest of them are selected on factors a lot more commercial than whose eggs they brood.

I meant that considering the strategy is not new (it was present in Jungle Fowl already) the chicken would not survive to the point humans took care of their fitness if it would be that bad.

On the other hand, yes ; the strategy is not too good either.

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30 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

Wild chickens aren't all that numerous.  The rest of them are selected on factors a lot more commercial than whose eggs they brood.

Mass-produced egg industry chickens are specifically bred not to go broody, to the point that Leghorn-based breeds have lost the instinct entirely and are usually hatched in electric incubators. Mass-produced meat chickens are bred not to feel satiated from eating, leading to rapid weight gain. Barnyard/backyard "heritage" breeds are mostly still bred with their instincts intact. 

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36 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

I meant that considering the strategy is not new (it was present in Jungle Fowl already) the chicken would not survive to the point humans took care of their fitness if it would be that bad.

On the other hand, yes ; the strategy is not too good either.

The main advantage I see is clutch size; a single hen can incubate more eggs than she could accumulate safely on her own, and while she's thus occupied the other hens keep it up so that there can be multiple hens setting  (I don't know why it's not "sitting" either, but as wrong as it looks "setting" really is the term) at once. Also, newly-hatched chicks are bad at making body heat; larger clutch sizes improve survival chances through larger fuzzy cuddle piles.

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14 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Do they still have the "Camptown Races" Instinct?

Sadly, no. Male chicks in mass-market white egg factories do not survive their first day; all chicks are sorted after hatching and the males are disposed of. Breeding facilities keep a certain ratio of roosters, but they are generally never allowed to go outside and have no opportunity to taunt a dog.

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I'm glad to see I'm not the only person who knows what kin selection is. A good book on this sort of stuff I'd recommend is Dr. Tatiana's Sex Advice To All Creation. It is a book about strategies to pass along genes to the next generation in the form of sex advice column. The author is Olivia Judson. 

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On 5/18/2017 at 1:16 PM, animalia said:

Raising kids together doesn't necessarily mean the kids belong to both parents. Before genetic testing was possible songbirds were thought to be monogamous, now it is known that they are incredibly promiscuous.

yeah, the gay penguin couple just....stole eggs from other nests

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You know, I was just re-reading "End of an Era" and the contrast between Elliot then and Elliot now is really noticeable, back then we have the bedroom discussion where Ellen tells Elliot he should be more introspective, and in the current story arc, we see that Elliot has really been thinking about who he is and how he feels. I sometimes forget that only a few weeks have passed between moments, Elliot's definitely growing here.

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9 hours ago, Scotty said:

You know, I was just re-reading "End of an Era" and the contrast between Elliot then and Elliot now is really noticeable, back then we have the bedroom discussion where Ellen tells Elliot he should be more introspective, and in the current story arc, we see that Elliot has really been thinking about who he is and how he feels. I sometimes forget that only a few weeks have passed between moments, Elliot's definitely growing here.

Apparently, he took that advice to heart and started to be more introspective. And it's only fair Ellen is helping considering it was her advice.

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Just now, hkmaly said:

Apparently, he took that advice to heart and started to be more introspective. And it's only fair Ellen is helping considering it was her advice.

Well yeah, though I imagine Elliot's female side being blonde was Ellen's answer to "Black or Blonde?", I have a feeling Ellen had a snarky comment about it too.

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