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Scotty

NP: Monday May 22, 2017

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2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Not true. Without being told, Elliot averages at half the time the enchantment is supposed to last, and that was AFTER awakening. Back then, I would expect he wouldn't be able to get rid of it sooner than in three weeks.

The thing is though, now that Tedd knows that enchantments can have their durations reduced by actively resisting, he would have told Elliot so Elliot should be able to get rid of an enchantment faster than that average, not instantly like Tedd can though.

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

She doesn't have Lespuko parent, so she can't mix and match, but yes she should be able to morph back ... and then again morph to human. But she's afraid to try. I mean, not willing to risk.

Yeah, the lespuko DNA just adds mixing and matching forms and gain power through them, but Uryuom DNA would be enough that Vladia couldn't be enchanted (but still V5'd).

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I suspect that the diamond ACTUALLY work by separating enchantments and it was just Abraham who though all enchantments are curses.

That's basically what I was trying to say, I think Abraham was trying to get it so the Diamond would separate a specific enchantment (the werewolf curse) but goofed up and so the Diamond affected all possible enchantments.

23 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:

Have we seen that Rhoda has a spellbook? I am not remembering it (but then I have something less than a photographic memory).

Pandora gave her one near the end of "Marker/Escape From the Mall"

24 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:

If it's just a list of Awakened people, then add Justin.

And possibly Greg. Maybe Dan should do a more detailed origin story for Greg.

29 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:

Have we seen that Rhoda has a spellbook? I am not remembering it (but then I have something less than a photographic memory).

If it's just a list of Awakened people, then add Justin.

Ellen zaps a beam at Elliot, it hits Magus first, turning his body female... oops, he doesn't have a body... so the magic hits him and looks around going "NOW what do I do?". Meanwhile it's a powerful enough beam to throw Magus backward into Elliot, and Magus WANTS to possess Elliot's body temporarily, and the magic says "Oh, okay!"

Voila, one male Elliot possessed by Magus. Let's go find the diamond!

The result of that is one male Elliot who can - at will - become possessed by Magus and then throw off the possession, and one male Magus who can - at will - cause others to become possessed or dis-possessed by Magus. So in principle they could have a whole bunch of people all possessed by Magus running around at the same time.

I know Dan made it canon that the Diamond creates a duplicate with the ability to spread the "curse" and leaves the original with the ability to use the enchantment themself, but I'm not sure how that result could be worked into canon.

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28 minutes ago, Scotty said:
3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Not true. Without being told, Elliot averages at half the time the enchantment is supposed to last, and that was AFTER awakening. Back then, I would expect he wouldn't be able to get rid of it sooner than in three weeks.

The thing is though, now that Tedd knows that enchantments can have their durations reduced by actively resisting, he would have told Elliot so Elliot should be able to get rid of an enchantment faster than that average, not instantly like Tedd can though.

Hmmmm ... ok, we don't have data for this one, despite I'm sure it was Tedd's next experiment. I was assuming that Elliot is already resisting as best as he can, but thinking about it, that's not exactly obvious assumption.

31 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Yeah, the lespuko DNA just adds mixing and matching forms and gain power through them, but Uryuom DNA would be enough that Vladia couldn't be enchanted (but still V5'd).

Yes. Question is what would be the effect on Hedge and Guineas - I think it's not obvious if they count as "Uryuom hybrids" if they are chimeras but don't have Uryuom DNA ...

32 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I think Abraham was trying to get it so the Diamond would separate a specific enchantment (the werewolf curse) but goofed up and so the Diamond affected all possible enchantments.

I don't ; I think Abraham wasn't even trying to make the Diamond specific. The goofed part was obviously the duplicating - it could've been argued that the ability to reactivate curse is still ok but creating duplicate representing the curse was definitely bug.

35 minutes ago, Scotty said:
1 hour ago, Don Edwards said:

If it's just a list of Awakened people, then add Justin.

And possibly Greg. Maybe Dan should do a more detailed origin story for Greg.

Also Edward, Noriko, Cranium, Wolf, Abraham, Adrian Raven if applicable, probably Noah, probably Mrs. Kitsune ... oh, and not-Tengu. Also, I think we can safely assume Edward, Noriko, Cranium, Wolf and Adrian Raven have spellbook.

40 minutes ago, Scotty said:
1 hour ago, Don Edwards said:

The result of that is one male Elliot who can - at will - become possessed by Magus and then throw off the possession, and one male Magus who can - at will - cause others to become possessed or dis-possessed by Magus. So in principle they could have a whole bunch of people all possessed by Magus running around at the same time.

I know Dan made it canon that the Diamond creates a duplicate with the ability to spread the "curse" and leaves the original with the ability to use the enchantment themself, but I'm not sure how that result could be worked into canon.

I suspect that "being possessed by Magus" would be hard to replicate, yes ... but note that dis-possessing doesn't need to be on list of abilities. Ellen only has it because TF gun has - oh wait, actually, TF gun won't do anything on person already transformed with given transformation. Hmmm ... I see precedent for the Diamond not working exactly as advertised.

(I'm sure the werewolf didn't had ability to un-curse anyone.)

 

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2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Yes. Question is what would be the effect on Hedge and Guineas - I think it's not obvious if they count as "Uryuom hybrids" if they are chimeras but don't have Uryuom DNA ...

Hedge and Guineas are lesser chimeras, they have no Uryuom DNA, so they wouldn't be considered Uryuom hybrids. Enchantments applied to them will likely affect them as enchantments should.

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I suspect that "being possessed by Magus" would be hard to replicate, yes ... but note that dis-possessing doesn't need to be on list of abilities. Ellen only has it because TF gun has - oh wait, actually, TF gun won't do anything on person already transformed with given transformation. Hmmm ... I see precedent for the Diamond not working exactly as advertised.

The TFG has a "normal" setting that can revert a morph. When Ellen first zapped Tedd after the goo fight, she said Tedd would have to fix the gun to return to normal cus she wouldn't do it. I think the restriction was that the TFG morphs wouldn't stack with Ellen's beam.

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:
4 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Yes. Question is what would be the effect on Hedge and Guineas - I think it's not obvious if they count as "Uryuom hybrids" if they are chimeras but don't have Uryuom DNA ...

Hedge and Guineas are lesser chimeras, they have no Uryuom DNA, so they wouldn't be considered Uryuom hybrids. Enchantments applied to them will likely affect them as enchantments should.

Source?

They can transform. Only between those two forms they have, but still, they must have some Uryuom power. And noone TRIED to use TF gun on them. On the other hand, the bit about correcting greater chimera flaws was only about greater chimeras, so maybe lesser chimeras are stuck with imperfect morphing BECAUSE they lack Uryuom DNA ... and for the same reason anything else will enchant them.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

The TFG has a "normal" setting that can revert a morph. When Ellen first zapped Tedd after the goo fight, she said Tedd would have to fix the gun to return to normal cus she wouldn't do it. I think the restriction was that the TFG morphs wouldn't stack with Ellen's beam.

It has, but it was not used on Ellen and there is therefore no reason why she should be able to mimic it. When explaining Ellen, it is said her beam will replace different uryuom magic morphs and cancel out identical ones, but the explanation what TF gun will do was different.

 

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4 hours ago, hkmaly said:

They can transform. Only between those two forms they have, but still, they must have some Uryuom power. And noone TRIED to use TF gun on them. On the other hand, the bit about correcting greater chimera flaws was only about greater chimeras, so maybe lesser chimeras are stuck with imperfect morphing BECAUSE they lack Uryuom DNA ... and for the same reason anything else will enchant them.

My source was what you linked, I just forgot to link it, hehe. But yeah Greater Chimeras aren't enchanted by tranformation magic because they basically make the transformation their own, it's got nothing to do with resisting a spell but being a full on shapeshifter.

Hedge and Guineas can shapeshift but only because they have animal and human DNA and the fact that it's possible must mean that the Uryuom eggs have a way to correct any incompatibilities between species, being able to shapeshift between human and animal form might just be a side effect of that, but since they're lesser chimeras, the TFG wouldn't fix their transformation ability further. There's also this part just after Vladia revealed herself to the others and Grace said "you're like me, you should stay that when until you concentrate really hard to transform again."

5 hours ago, hkmaly said:

It has, but it was not used on Ellen and there is therefore no reason why she should be able to mimic it. When explaining Ellen, it is said her beam will replace different uryuom magic morphs and cancel out identical ones, but the explanation what TF gun will do was different.

Yeah, the way I read that was, if someone was zapped by the FV5 setting on the TFG, and then Ellen zapped them, they'd return to normal, because Ellen can zap herself once to V5 herself, and then a second zapping cancels it, the TFG would need to be set to "normal" first before zapping again. Maybe because Elliot knew about the "normal" setting on the TFG at the time he touched the diamond, it automatically gave Ellen's beam a "second shot on same target=normal" feature.

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9 hours ago, Scotty said:

My source was what you linked, I just forgot to link it, hehe. But yeah Greater Chimeras aren't enchanted by tranformation magic because they basically make the transformation their own, it's got nothing to do with resisting a spell but being a full on shapeshifter.

Hedge and Guineas can shapeshift but only because they have animal and human DNA and the fact that it's possible must mean that the Uryuom eggs have a way to correct any incompatibilities between species, being able to shapeshift between human and animal form might just be a side effect of that, but since they're lesser chimeras, the TFG wouldn't fix their transformation ability further. There's also this part just after Vladia revealed herself to the others and Grace said "you're like me, you should stay that when until you concentrate really hard to transform again."

So, we know how it works for greater Chimeras but our only hint about the lesser ones is that if it would worked the same for them they would PROBABLY not be excluded in that explanation. That's not exactly solid proof.

Although I agree that it would make sense - I mean, them having only two forms and "hard" shapeshifting and uryuom magic enchanting them just like humans.

9 hours ago, Scotty said:

Yeah, the way I read that was, if someone was zapped by the FV5 setting on the TFG, and then Ellen zapped them, they'd return to normal, because Ellen can zap herself once to V5 herself, and then a second zapping cancels it, the TFG would need to be set to "normal" first before zapping again.

Obviously. The question is WHY.

9 hours ago, Scotty said:

Maybe because Elliot knew about the "normal" setting on the TFG at the time he touched the diamond, it automatically gave Ellen's beam a "second shot on same target=normal" feature.

I don't see how would Elliot knowing something influence how the diamond worked.

(I don't actually expect answer, unless we ask Dan, and I suspect the answer - if he give one - would be "look, is that a daemon duck?". But it is weird.)

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24 minutes ago, The Wozard said:

Nanase reads Ellen's spell book? Don't they usually hide when someone other than the user tries to read it?

No. They just have innocuous covers. With Edward Verres-level distractions on them. Like "Not A Spellbook" or "A Perfectly Ordinary Book."

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14 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

No. They just have innocuous covers. With Edward Verres-level distractions on them. Like "Not A Spellbook" or "A Perfectly Ordinary Book."

It's The Ecology of Anteaters (Not a Spellbook) and A Perfectly Normal Book.

14 hours ago, The Wozard said:

Don't they usually hide when someone other than the user tries to read it?

No, Nanase was hiding her by ordinary means (under pillow) when mom surprised her.

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

No, Nanase was hiding her by ordinary means (under pillow) when mom surprised her.

Or alternately you could click on the link I had provided in my post to see the page where Ellen is reading Elliot's spellbook.

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24 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:
1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

No, Nanase was hiding her by ordinary means (under pillow) when mom surprised her.

Or alternately you could click on the link I had provided in my post to see the page where Ellen is reading Elliot's spellbook

Or that, yes. Although it COULD be argued that Elliot-Ellen are exception, with them being almost same person :), so better have counterargument for that ready.

PS: Found the link.

 

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3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

it COULD be argued that Elliot-Ellen are exception, with them being almost same person

Ellen and Elliot are not the same person.  Just like Noah and Archie are not the same person.

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2 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:
6 hours ago, hkmaly said:

it COULD be argued that Elliot-Ellen are exception, with them being almost same person

Ellen and Elliot are not the same person.  Just like Noah and Archie are not the same person.

... I think the difference between Noah and Archie is bigger.

But yes, I agree they are not same person, I was just presenting why my link was noteworthy.

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