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Story Wednesday May 24, 2017

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Why do I get the feeling this is something Voltaire would want to take advantage of.....Voltaire wanted Tedd a certain way possibly so he would say "F&^* YOU!" to Magic which may allow Immortals to shed their restrictions. Elliot basically just went "F&^* YOU!" to Magic and wants to do something about it...

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I have to wonder if the entire reason Dan has written this storyline in the first place is that he doesn't like the way he originally set up magic in the comic, but he's a responsible writer who wants to keep things internally consistent and so this is his way to avoid arbitrary changes to suit the types of plots he wants.

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1 minute ago, Illjwamh said:

I have to wonder if the entire reason Dan has written this storyline in the first place is that he doesn't like the way he originally set up magic in the comic, but he's a responsible writer who wants to keep things internally consistent and so this is his way to avoid arbitrary changes to suit the types of plots he wants.

Huh, that's an interesting theory.

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Oh, my.  My eyebrows went up when Elliot mentioned the immortals in the last panel.  I do not think this will end well.  Nope, not at all.

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3 minutes ago, Wanderer said:

...Is Elliot forgetting how they got into this whole "magic resetting" mess in the first place???

Sudden emotional surge? That's a Magus-ing.

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1 hour ago, partner555 said:
1 hour ago, Illjwamh said:

I have to wonder if the entire reason Dan has written this storyline in the first place is that he doesn't like the way he originally set up magic in the comic, but he's a responsible writer who wants to keep things internally consistent and so this is his way to avoid arbitrary changes to suit the types of plots he wants.

Huh, that's an interesting theory.

Weren't parts of "this storyline" present basically at the same time as we started learning about magic? Remember, we started with aliens and their technology, magic appeared quite late, unless you count ASMA, Susan summoning sword, hammers and the diamond, which was so arbitrary he could put anything in and it would still worked.

While getting huge storyline out of wanting to explain some early mistake would be typical of Dan (Hammerchlorians), I think this is more about "what I want to write doesn't really make sense unless I make it new". Presumably, if he started with the rules as they will be after reset, everyone would already know them and there wouldn't be any headstart available for main eight. And Tedd wouldn't need to be seer, which started to be hinted basically with Tedd being scarred from magic analyzing wand ... if not sooner (remember, his glowing was linked from his analyzing ability).

It's hard to be sure with Dan, as he apparently plans years in advance or is very good at pretending it (probably both), but I would say "probably no" on this one. We will see what exactly will change, though ... I would be only little surprised if it would be "surprisingly little".

1 hour ago, Wanderer said:

...Is Elliot forgetting how they got into this whole "magic resetting" mess in the first place???

Did they told him?

1 hour ago, Ranma_2k8 said:

Oh, my.  My eyebrows went up when Elliot mentioned the immortals in the last panel.  I do not think this will end well.  Nope, not at all.

Yup. This is very bad idea. I mean, sure, it's logical and I might think about it on his place as well, but giving random person magic mark and possibly cause him to awaken later ... sure, it's exactly what Pandora was doing but it's also exactly why Greg stopped with ASMA dojo. They may START with changing gender but who knows what will be their second spell.

And yes, there is danger it will cause magic reset.

And they will still only help ONE person out of how many, millions?

... but the good part of this idea is that Edward might never know they had something to do with it.

 

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On May 24, 2017 Elliot Dunkel said:

How many Immortals do we know?

Between the Maine Eight, they are aware of at least four Immortals.  And one would think Edward and Adrian have probably encountered more.

But did any of these immortals leave a business card?  Mention a phone number?  Or write a return address on the spell books?

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They actually know about 5 imortals: Helena and Demetrius from the mall, Jerry from Susan, Box from Sarah, and Voltaire from When he showed himself in Tedd house.

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7 hours ago, Illjwamh said:

I have to wonder if the entire reason Dan has written this storyline in the first place is that he doesn't like the way he originally set up magic in the comic, but he's a responsible writer who wants to keep things internally consistent and so this is his way to avoid arbitrary changes to suit the types of plots he wants.

I want to think that Dan's had the idea for the Magic reset back in Hammerchlorians when Jerry first mentions Magic having a flair for the dramatic, it seems like Dan had already figured on Magic having a will that could effect outcomes when it seemed appropriate.

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:

I want to think that Dan's had the idea for the Magic reset back in Hammerchlorians when Jerry first mentions Magic having a flair for the dramatic, it seems like Dan had already figured on Magic having a will that could effect outcomes when it seemed appropriate.

I believe it is older. We first knew there was something unusual about Tedd way back here when he started glowing. And since we have by now learned that Tedd's oddity is connected with possible magic resets...

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15 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

I believe it is older. We first knew there was something unusual about Tedd way back here when he started glowing. And since we have by now learned that Tedd's oddity is connected with possible magic resets...

I always considered that leaning-on-the-fourth-wall style joke about the way Dan will visually represent emotions and things. I never once assumed Tedd was literally glowing.

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11 minutes ago, Illjwamh said:

I always considered that leaning-on-the-fourth-wall style joke about the way Dan will visually represent emotions and things. I never once assumed Tedd was literally glowing.

Pretty sure its been confirmed in the comic that other people can see that.

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58 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

By the way, I was wrong. It was in this comic and the following that we saw the first examples of Tedd glowing. And back then, Grace could see it, too.

I remember that, yeah. Still doesn't change my interpretation. I'm not insisting I'm right or anything; that's just how I've always looked at it.

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1 hour ago, Illjwamh said:

I remember that, yeah. Still doesn't change my interpretation. I'm not insisting I'm right or anything; that's just how I've always looked at it.

Sure, and you are entitled to it. I was just mentioning it for completeness' sake.

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12 hours ago, Illjwamh said:

I have to wonder if the entire reason Dan has written this storyline in the first place is that he doesn't like the way he originally set up magic in the comic, but he's a responsible writer who wants to keep things internally consistent and so this is his way to avoid arbitrary changes to suit the types of plots he wants.

I get the impression that this is why the Hammerchlorians arc happened.

11 hours ago, Wanderer said:

...Is Elliot forgetting how they got into this whole "magic resetting" mess in the first place???

I think his endgame is trying to confront magic and resolving the conflict once and for all, by forcing magic's hand. This neatly coincides with many of the other plotlines reaching their end.

I am, however, surprised that Elliot has grown to the extent that he is able to plan that far ahead.

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1 hour ago, The Old Hack said:
2 hours ago, Illjwamh said:

I remember that, yeah. Still doesn't change my interpretation. I'm not insisting I'm right or anything; that's just how I've always looked at it.

Sure, and you are entitled to it. I was just mentioning it for completeness' sake.

I think it's the fact that while Grace pointed out the glow, Tedd never took it seriously, I dunno if it was a side effect of being certain he had no magic potential that he'd blow it off. But I don't think Grace knew that back then, so she wouldn't think it'd be important to push the subject. I imagine if Sarah saw Tedd glow like that before he had told her she'd be all "but hey, if you have no magic potential, how come you can glow sometimes?!"

1 hour ago, weirdee said:

I think his endgame is trying to confront magic and resolving the conflict once and for all, by forcing magic's hand. This neatly coincides with many of the other plotlines reaching their end.

I am, however, surprised that Elliot has grown to the extent that he is able to plan that far ahead.

Elliot had already told Tedd that in the age of smartphones, it'd be very difficult to keep Magic secret, so Magic would have to compromise eventually of it wants to continue to be used by people. Elliot's statement about possibly getting Immortals involved is an extension of that.

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11 hours ago, Entropy said:

They actually know about 5 imortals: Helena and Demetrius from the mall, Jerry from Susan, Box from Sarah, and Voltaire from When he showed himself in Tedd house.

Note that while all of them are likely to stick around, "Box" is only one who they KNOW is supposed to contact them again.

7 hours ago, The Old Hack said:
9 hours ago, Scotty said:

I want to think that Dan's had the idea for the Magic reset back in Hammerchlorians when Jerry first mentions Magic having a flair for the dramatic, it seems like Dan had already figured on Magic having a will that could effect outcomes when it seemed appropriate.

I believe it is older. We first knew there was something unusual about Tedd way back here when he started glowing. And since we have by now learned that Tedd's oddity is connected with possible magic resets...

Sigh. I already linked when Tedd was glowing first time and it's more than year sooner.

7 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

By the way, I was wrong. It was in this comic and the following that we saw the first examples of Tedd glowing. And back then, Grace could see it, too.

... yes.

4 hours ago, weirdee said:
17 hours ago, Illjwamh said:

I have to wonder if the entire reason Dan has written this storyline in the first place is that he doesn't like the way he originally set up magic in the comic, but he's a responsible writer who wants to keep things internally consistent and so this is his way to avoid arbitrary changes to suit the types of plots he wants.

I get the impression that this is why the Hammerchlorians arc happened.

Dan directly said one of reasons he did the storyline was that hammers were huge plot hole.

3 hours ago, Scotty said:
4 hours ago, weirdee said:

I think his endgame is trying to confront magic and resolving the conflict once and for all, by forcing magic's hand. This neatly coincides with many of the other plotlines reaching their end.

I am, however, surprised that Elliot has grown to the extent that he is able to plan that far ahead.

Elliot had already told Tedd that in the age of smartphones, it'd be very difficult to keep Magic secret, so Magic would have to compromise eventually of it wants to continue to be used by people. Elliot's statement about possibly getting Immortals involved is an extension of that.

But Ellen already commented "It might never learn that lesson if it doesn't change".

I agree ; there is no way to make magic accept being universally available with current set of rules. If it accepts it needs to go public, it will reset at least once to establish some stricter limits.

Trying to get immortals involved is more about not getting the blame for change than about preventing the change. Unless Elliot really thinks just about helping this one person, which MIGHT be doable without forcing the reset.

 

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Note that while all of them are likely to stick around, "Box" is only one who they KNOW is supposed to contact them again.

We also don't know what happened to Jerry, I want to believe that he's fine and that it was Pandora that grabbed him believing that he's the one that was meddling with Elliot's life, maybe they'll team up to find Voltaire?

But as it is, we don't know for sure who it was that grabbed him and if they're friendly or not.

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

But Ellen already commented "It might never learn that lesson if it doesn't change".

And obviously it didn't deter Elliot from making that statement, well, it might have if Ellen didn't mention magic marks. Way to go Ellen! You're an enabler! :D

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Trying to get immortals involved is more about not getting the blame for change than about preventing the change. Unless Elliot really thinks just about helping this one person, which MIGHT be doable without forcing the reset.

Well, Pandora did say she was going to mark Felix because it'd be something she believed Tedd would never forgive her if she didn't. Though she might not be as quick to agree this time around as she probably believes that Tedd wouldn't forgive her if she causes Magic to change, Sarah told Tedd about "Box" being the one that was giving magic marks to people and Grace backed her up on it and since "Box" told Sarah to tell Tedd everything, she has every right to believe that he wouldn't forgive her. Maybe she could do something else to help without risking more people learning about magic though.

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3 hours ago, hkmaly said:
8 hours ago, weirdee said:
20 hours ago, Illjwamh said:

I have to wonder if the entire reason Dan has written this storyline in the first place is that he doesn't like the way he originally set up magic in the comic, but he's a responsible writer who wants to keep things internally consistent and so this is his way to avoid arbitrary changes to suit the types of plots he wants.

 

I get the impression that this is why the Hammerchlorians arc happened.

 

 

Dan directly said one of reasons he did the storyline was that hammers were huge plot hole.

 

I remember that, and it's one of the reasons for my current hypothesis. He's done it before, after all.

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:
3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Note that while all of them are likely to stick around, "Box" is only one who they KNOW is supposed to contact them again.

We also don't know what happened to Jerry, I want to believe that he's fine and that it was Pandora that grabbed him believing that he's the one that was meddling with Elliot's life, maybe they'll team up to find Voltaire?

But as it is, we don't know for sure who it was that grabbed him and if they're friendly or not.

Even if they are NOT friendly, it may only be temporary problem and he would be likely to return afterwards. Based on Helena and Demetrius, there is high chance he will return even if reset improperly ...

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Well, Pandora did say she was going to mark Felix because it'd be something she believed Tedd would never forgive her if she didn't. Though she might not be as quick to agree this time around as she probably believes that Tedd wouldn't forgive her if she causes Magic to change, Sarah told Tedd about "Box" being the one that was giving magic marks to people and Grace backed her up on it and since "Box" told Sarah to tell Tedd everything, she has every right to believe that he wouldn't forgive her. Maybe she could do something else to help without risking more people learning about magic though.

If Pandora based on "Tedd would never forgive" started marking ALL transgender people, Sam's problem would already be solved. I think it was more like Tedd never forgiving her she didn't do it when she had such perfect opportunity, considering she was JUST marking people and such. He would forgive her if she had good reason not to.

And no, I don't think she can help him in any other way than by marking him. Or at least in any less risky way.

1 minute ago, Illjwamh said:
3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Dan directly said one of reasons he did the storyline was that hammers were huge plot hole.

I remember that, and it's one of the reasons for my current hypothesis. He's done it before, after all.

You may also remember (if not, reread that commentary) Dan wasn't exactly jumping at that opportunity, he only did it when he realized the solution to hammers would also help with other stuff.

I did mentioned that there are similarities, BUT there are also differences: the hammers happened at the start of comics and then basically disappeared until Dan realized he has way to make them fit, and they were not really connected to anything else before. While the rules of magic happened relatively late and looked pretty connected to everything from start. And Tedd's seer abilities were hinted from BEFORE the magic rules appeared.

And it wouldn't be first time when Dan managed to finish something which was planned for long time (and hinted) either. Painted Black, for example, was planned since start and it wasn't some sort of retcon to explain Grace better (although some details DID changed ... and similarly, I wouldn't be surprised if Dan fixed some issues with magic during reset, I just think he planned the reset anyway).

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6 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

If Pandora based on "Tedd would never forgive" started marking ALL transgender people, Sam's problem would already be solved. I think it was more like Tedd never forgiving her she didn't do it when she had such perfect opportunity, considering she was JUST marking people and such. He would forgive her if she had good reason not to.

Right, Pandora wasn't actively searching for transgender people, she just happen upon Felix because she was following Kitty. Pandora did have an opportunity to notice Sam and mark him, but she was probably pre-occupied with Tedd, Sarah and Justin/Luke at the time.

9 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

And no, I don't think she can help him in any other way than by marking him. Or at least in any less risky way.

You sure? Jerry cast a serenity spell on Susan, Voltaire channeled loads of magic into Dex, why couldn't Pandora permanently change a person's default form without marking them?

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10 minutes ago, Scotty said:
25 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

And no, I don't think she can help him in any other way than by marking him. Or at least in any less risky way.

You sure? Jerry cast a serenity spell on Susan, Voltaire channeled loads of magic into Dex, why couldn't Pandora permanently change a person's default form without marking them?

1) How is changing person's default form "empower and guide"? The serenity spell is IMHO guiding, and Dex being empowered and guided was explained in comic.

2) Permanently changing their form without preparation would mean they would need to prove it's still them and people would wonder how that happened.

25 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

(although some details DID changed ... and similarly, I wouldn't be surprised if Dan fixed some issues with magic during reset, I just think he planned the reset anyway).

PS: Two more points:

1) Dan retconned Elliot's inner demons completely in open, including George shouting it.

2) And he explicitly said illusion powers are canon when asked.

So, it doesn't seem like he would construct huge storyline just to get rid of illusion powers. If he wouldn't like them, he could just said they are not canon, considering most cases where they were used could be re-labelled artistic license instead.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if they would become causalities of reset. (I mean, if they would recover most other spells except illusions.)

 

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