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Stature

Story Wednesday June 14, 2017

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2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

There was nothing magical about that mirror. Raven cast spell on Grace which changed her appearance to anyone looking at her except Raven and her, and the exception didn't worked through mirror.

There had to be something magical about that mirror. Mirrors, at least mirrors that are not magical, do not perceive anything, only reflect. An ordinary mirror should have shown Grace's own true face at the time. Remember, the spell is supposed to affect anyone except Grace and Adrian. So, Grace should have been able to see her own image without the illusion in an ordinary mirror.

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Tedd likes to explain the details of how magic operates to Grace.

When Grace asked if the illusion was mental or optical, Mr Raven just said "it's magic" and left it at that.

Just the author reminding us that we don't need to know how the magic works to know the magic works.

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Guys, all this speculation is nice and even largely coherent, but do we actually know that Pandora knows about Susan and Diane? I mean, sure, that guy with the mantle of Heka could've told her, but aside from that, I don't think there's ever been any encounter where she would've learned about the not-twin twins.

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19 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

Really? I kind of think after this encounter with Jerry Pandora knows everything about the Susan and Diane that Jerry knows.

Unless that wasn't Pandora, which is also possible.

Assuming I got everything right, Pandora was at Heka's (hearing about the lie she'd passed on to herself) on Monday or Tuesday, whereas the Jerry encounter (where she might've heard about Susan and Diane) was on Wednesday night. This encounter between Sarah and Box apparently takes place on Thursday, so she probably wouldn't have had too much time to do more research, much less about Adrian's possible descendants, since that would probably involve talking to him. Of course, if she knew about his sex life and the unexpected appearance of children before, it's quite possible that she only now, after hearing the truth from Heka, put two and two together.

Another possible interpretation of "of course they were his" could be that "they" are more powerful magic users in general and "he" is the guy with the mantle of Heka. That was my first idea. Though that probably wouldn't quite explain why this problem affects Adrian as much.

I kind of can't shake the feeling that Dan has a bigger plot twist planned. All the speculation in this thread seems too straightforward – Adrian leading a sex life, accidentally fathering children even he doesn't know about (or doesn't want to believe they're his), based on how vehemently he denies his fertility, and them being ancestors to Susan, Diane and potentially others. It seems too normal. Quite frankly, I'd be a bit disappointed if there isn't more to this.

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5 minutes ago, Niranufoti said:

I kind of can't shake the feeling that Dan has a bigger plot twist planned.

I hope Dan has actually figured out the plot twist.

Anyway, if Adrian has kids, there are only four Moperville humans on the cover page of Sister III, and Ellen and Elliot definitely aren't Adrian's kids.

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2 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

Anyway, if Adrian has kids, there are only four Moperville humans on the cover page of Sister III, and Ellen and Elliot definitely aren't Adrian's kids.

Inb4 Sirleck is a descendant of Adrian.

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15 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:
2 hours ago, Niranufoti said:

I don't think there's ever been any encounter where she would've learned about the not-twin twins.

Really? I kind of think after this encounter with Jerry Pandora knows everything about the Susan and Diane that Jerry knows.

I think she did know of Susan and Diane, Susan especially is one of the main group of Tedd's friends so Pandora would definitely know about her, and if she followed Ellen, Nanase, Grace or Justin around at MSHS, she would have encountered Diane. But as Pandora states in the comic, she either never made any connection between the two and Adrian, or if there was any connection between Susan and Diane that Pandora could see, she likely shrugged it off at the time as not important.

4 minutes ago, Niranufoti said:

Unless that wasn't Pandora, which is also possible.

Assuming I got everything right, Pandora was at Heka's (hearing about the lie she'd passed on to herself) on Monday or Tuesday, whereas the Jerry encounter (where she might've heard about Susan and Diane) was on Wednesday night. This encounter between Sarah and Box apparently takes place on Thursday, so she probably wouldn't have had too much time to do more research, much less about Adrian's possible descendants, since that would probably involve talking to him. Of course, if she knew about his sex life and the unexpected appearance of children before, it's quite possible that she only now, after hearing the truth from Heka, put two and two together.

I think it was Tuesday that Pandora met with Heka, she left to see him on Sunday evening, got to Egypt Monday , searched around a bit for Heka's Library and chatted with him Tuesday, and probably left Tuesday evening and made it back Wednesday. If she immediately went to Susan's place that would mean that Pandora did notice something odd about her, but initially shrugged it off as not important, after being told by Heka about the lie, Pandora could have been all "Is that why I sense something familiar about Susan?" She might not have known about Jerry allying himself to Susan though so seeing another Immortal watching Susan sleeping would have likely triggered Pandora's "she's family, protect her!" reflex, especially considering she knows about 3 other Immortals that have been meddling with Tedd and his friends, one of which she knows she needs to tear to shreds.

 

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14 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

That {Adrian being ancestor of 10% of Europeans} I don't buy. To father enough children to have that many descendants Adrian would have to have been a polygynous monarch like Genghis Khan or King Ibrahim of Morocco, or to have had the ability multiply himself 100 times for 100 women at a time like Krishna. Or both.

By some estimates, the most recent common ancestor of essentially-all Europeans may have been as recent as 1000 years ago.

Adrian is estimated to be what, at least 600 years old? He's not allowed to be part of a military organization, but can't exactly explain why or by whose authority - so he probably would have had to move around a lot over that period to avoid being drafted.

Him being ancestral to 10% of Europeans is plausible, assuming he's actually roughly as fertile as the average human male.

(Also noteworthy: it's estimated that if you - being a randomly selected person - list the names of all four of your great-grandfathers, there's a better than 50% chance that you are mistaken about at least one of them. It's not as if sexual cheating is rare...)

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14 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

In fact, I now wonder why Nanase's mother seems to be okay with Nanase going to the school where Adrian teaches; she must know the role Adrian played in the breakup of Noriko's marriage and her desertion of Tedd.

Mama Kistune may hate Mr. Raven, but she wants the best for Nanase, and Mr. Raven is one of the best teachers around (especially history, as he could technically be a first hand source for some of it). Mr. Raven is also highly protective of his students, as seen when Abraham attacked the school, so Mama Kitsune wouldn't have to worry as much if something bad happens at the school.

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2 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

Also noteworthy: it's estimated that if you - being a randomly selected person - list the names of all four of your great-grandfathers, there's a better than 50% chance that you are mistaken about at least one of them. It's not as if sexual cheating is rare...)

Cheating is about as rare as dogs who lick their butts. However, the Genghis Khan study was cross-checking for common markers in the Y-chromosome which is only passed down through the male line. As I said before, the study didn't really come out and say "Yes, there is a 100% chance all these men are direct descendant of Genghis Khan", only that there was a common male ancestor that should have lived around the same time Genghis Khan was alive and active. But as the conqueror of the largest empire that's ever been who's known to have had a large harem, he's a likely suspect. Oh, he also killed more people than most other men, starting with one of his own brothers when he was still a child, and working up to at least one entire nation, so it seems likely there was somewhat less cheating than average going on by and with his women and the other men with any access to them.

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19 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Note the high probability that ALL magic users have Fairy ancestors. Specifically, that this was exactly what Heka said to Pandora before her "WHAT?".

So, unless the royal heritage is Nanase specifically being descended from Titania ...

I don't think that's true (unless everyone is descended from immortals), because as far as we know, almost everyone has some magic potential.  E.g., I don't think Justin or Dex or Catalina have any particular inherited magic ability.

I'm not sure about Nanase, though.  As far as we know, she doesn't have any particular affinity and she isn't a wizard or seer.  She just seems to have an overall higher magic potential (which wasn't one of the things Heka listed)—basically higher magic stats, as opposed to specific abilities.  It's not clear whether those are related, or whether people like Nanase are descended from immortals; it does seem that having a magic affinity without having generally high magic potential is possible (Sarah).

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8 minutes ago, chridd said:

I don't think that's true (unless everyone is descended from immortals), because as far as we know, almost everyone has some magic potential.  E.g., I don't think Justin or Dex or Catalina have any particular inherited magic ability.

I'm not sure about Nanase, though.  As far as we know, she doesn't have any particular affinity and she isn't a wizard or seer.  She just seems to have an overall higher magic potential (which wasn't one of the things Heka listed)—basically higher magic stats, as opposed to specific abilities.  It's not clear whether those are related, or whether people like Nanase are descended from immortals; it does seem that having a magic affinity without having generally high magic potential is possible (Sarah).

Eh, if it is just power, Nanase's grandmother might just be a by-blow of the late Emperor Arihito.

...okay, it was the other half of the world where magic followed noble bloodlines/conferred nobility on the bloodlines it followed.

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21 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

...okay, it was the other half of the world where magic followed noble bloodlines/conferred nobility on the bloodlines it followed.

It might still have been that way for several centuries, then there was a shift that made magical bloodlines not an important requirement for royalty, the last system change may have been a factor, maybe Tedd isn't the first seer in his family tree, and one of his ancestors was able to get kickstart the family business of monster hunting shortly after the system change.

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24 minutes ago, Scotty said:

It might still have been that way for several centuries, then there was a shift that made magical bloodlines not an important requirement for royalty, the last system change may have been a factor, maybe Tedd isn't the first seer in his family tree, and one of his ancestors was able to get kickstart the family business of monster hunting shortly after the system change.

Come visit my Monster Hunter Kickstarter! Help me reach my goal of 250.000 magical energy units. Regular monsters, then stretch goals of vampires at 300.000, werewolves at 350.000, diamond-created curse beasts at 400.000, demons at 450.000 and dragons at 500.000! If we reach 600.000 we may add the stretch goals of sociopathic lab monsters with Messianic complexes and Evil Overlords.

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Personally, at this poiont I'm mainly hoping that Raven isn't a cheater. I mean, I can see the scenario - wife gets pregnant, but he can't have children, so she cheated but denies doing so, he decides he has leave to cheat a bit himself, you know? Definitely doesn't strike me as being a WISE thing to do, though. Also, given how it's been established that he hates being lied to (blowing up in the principal's office), I don't see him wanting to live that kind of lie. Not to mention the whole betrayal and breaking of vows thing (marriage, in this case).

I'd be much more agreeable with the situation if Pandora was talking about some long-ago children, or Susan's dad or something like that. Maybe a one-night stand type of situation with Susan's mom? Ooh! She could get pregnant with twins, not be sure who the father is/not have Raven's contact information to chew him out for getting her pregnant when he said he couldn't, her parents make her give up one for adoption, she meets her husband, he eventually cheats... Hmm...

Anyway, I really don't see Raven as someone who is willing to be a cheating cheater who cheats, whether cheating on a his wife or with a friend's wife. :/ Sure, he's familiar with betrayals of trust, but I'd rather it be long-ago wives who (potentially) cheated on him to have children, not his being an adulterer. 

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Before tomorrow when we might have canon answers to the is he-or-isn't-he questions, let me add yet another possibility about Susan's paternity: Are we sure her mom didn't cheat on her husband? Or that she got pregnant before she met her husband?

Excuse me, I have to change the writer's sphere's litter box.

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1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:

Before tomorrow when we might have canon answers to the is he-or-isn't-he questions, let me add yet another possibility about Susan's paternity: Are we sure her mom didn't cheat on her husband? Or that she got pregnant before she met her husband?

Excuse me, I have to change the writer's sphere's litter box.

It WOULD be more interesting then the standard "husband cheats because he is a horndog story." It still would NOT excuse his behavior, but thinking he had been betrayed would be easier to sympathize with at least.

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I am a little uncomfortable with Raven being pulled into Susan's dad's cheating.  He (Raven) doesn't seem the sort of person to condone or participate in a spouse cheating on a spouse.  Raven could be an ancestor of Susan's and Diane's from 200 years ago.

Certainly Dan is teasing the idea that Raven is Susan's and Diane's blood-father but I'd be disappointed if there wasn't a lot more to the story than Dan has hinted to date.

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13 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

There had to be something magical about that mirror. Mirrors, at least mirrors that are not magical, do not perceive anything, only reflect. An ordinary mirror should have shown Grace's own true face at the time. Remember, the spell is supposed to affect anyone except Grace and Adrian. So, Grace should have been able to see her own image without the illusion in an ordinary mirror.

12 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Tedd likes to explain the details of how magic operates to Grace.

When Grace asked if the illusion was mental or optical, Mr Raven just said "it's magic" and left it at that.

Raven said just "it's magic". However, Tedd did mentioned how psychic illusions don't work through mirrors. So, yes, the spell Adrian used was likely little more complicated ...

12 hours ago, Niranufoti said:

Guys, all this speculation is nice and even largely coherent, but do we actually know that Pandora knows about Susan and Diane? I mean, sure, that guy with the mantle of Heka could've told her, but aside from that, I don't think there's ever been any encounter where she would've learned about the not-twin twins.

You mean we didn't SEE her around Susan and Diane right? Except she can go invisible - and usually IS invisible. I already mentioned I expect she did background check on all friends of her grand-godson just like Edward did, just with different methods.

10 hours ago, Niranufoti said:

I kind of can't shake the feeling that Dan has a bigger plot twist planned. All the speculation in this thread seems too straightforward – Adrian leading a sex life, accidentally fathering children even he doesn't know about (or doesn't want to believe they're his), based on how vehemently he denies his fertility, and them being ancestors to Susan, Diane and potentially others. It seems too normal. Quite frankly, I'd be a bit disappointed if there isn't more to this.

Well the twist does seem to be little over-hyped at this point ...

7 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

(Also noteworthy: it's estimated that if you - being a randomly selected person - list the names of all four of your great-grandfathers, there's a better than 50% chance that you are mistaken about at least one of them. It's not as if sexual cheating is rare...)

Considering two of my great-grandmothers are known to be out-of-wedlock, does that mean the chance for me is bigger or smaller?

4 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Oh, he also killed more people than most other men, starting with one of his own brothers when he was still a child, and working up to at least one entire nation, so it seems likely there was somewhat less cheating than average going on by and with his women and the other men with any access to them.

I would expect that MORE cheating was involved, just it was him doing it.

4 hours ago, chridd said:
23 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Note the high probability that ALL magic users have Fairy ancestors. Specifically, that this was exactly what Heka said to Pandora before her "WHAT?".

So, unless the royal heritage is Nanase specifically being descended from Titania ...

I don't think that's true (unless everyone is descended from immortals), because as far as we know, almost everyone has some magic potential.  E.g., I don't think Justin or Dex or Catalina have any particular inherited magic ability.

Sorry. That's right, it's all magic AFFINITIES which are from Fairy ancestors. So, Nanase, Tedd, Susan, Diane, Sarah, but probably not Justin, Dex or Catalina.

That said, it is quite possible everyone has some immortal ancestor.

4 hours ago, chridd said:

I'm not sure about Nanase, though.  As far as we know, she doesn't have any particular affinity and she isn't a wizard or seer.  She just seems to have an overall higher magic potential (which wasn't one of the things Heka listed)—basically higher magic stats, as opposed to specific abilities.  It's not clear whether those are related, or whether people like Nanase are descended from immortals; it does seem that having a magic affinity without having generally high magic potential is possible (Sarah).

We don't know about her having any particular affinity but we also don't know about her NOT having one. And even if it's not affinity, I would assume that all hereditary magic is from Fairy ancestors. It's possible that someone just has higher magic potential by random, but Nanase's hereditary and very reliable AND Tedd, who is seer, is her cousin and is seer because of his bloodlines. Quite likely she has at least part of that.

2 hours ago, Kazzellin said:

Anyway, I really don't see Raven as someone who is willing to be a cheating cheater who cheats, whether cheating on a his wife or with a friend's wife. :/ Sure, he's familiar with betrayals of trust, but I'd rather it be long-ago wives who (potentially) cheated on him to have children, not his being an adulterer. 

As I already commented, I don't see Raven as someone like that NOW (or as recently as Susan was born). But Pandora may refer to much earlier incident.

2 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Before tomorrow when we might have canon answers to the is he-or-isn't-he questions

Tomorrow? I'm sure Dan is leaving that AT LEAST for Monday. Friday must end on cliffhanger, doesn't it?

53 minutes ago, animalia said:
2 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

let me add yet another possibility about Susan's paternity: Are we sure her mom didn't cheat on her husband? Or that she got pregnant before she met her husband?

Excuse me, I have to change the writer's sphere's litter box.

It WOULD be more interesting then the standard "husband cheats because he is a horndog story." It still would NOT excuse his behavior, but thinking he had been betrayed would be easier to sympathize with at least.

It wouldn't solve the "twin" problem, however. Also, wouldn't Edward mentioned if that was the case? He seem to imply Susan's father was Mrs. Pompoms husband. If she fooled records, she could fooled Mr. Pompoms as well.

 

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1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:

I'm wondering how many Presidents we'll go through before we find out exactly how Susan and Diane are related.

Personally I'm hoping Dan is prepared better than JRR Tolkien or Pratchett. It would be pity if EGS story wouldn't get finished for so shallow reasons as Dan's eventual death of old age. GRR Martin plans to survive by absorbing emotions of readers, that's already obvious, but doesn't seem Dan is going the same route.

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5 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

GRR Martin

Don't be so sure. Before he started his fantasy series, Martin created a universe of superheroes starting with Wild Cards Hey, do you see Elliot finding any other career besides being a superhero?

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4 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:
4 hours ago, hkmaly said:

GRR Martin

Don't be so sure. Before he started his fantasy series, Martin created a universe of superheroes starting with Wild Cards Hey, do you see Elliot finding any other career besides being a superhero?

Secret agent, obviously. He only needs to learn the "secret" bit, but he would need that as superhero as well, so ...

(Also, looking at agent Wolf, you don't need to be THAT good at secrecy.)

And there is always the job Susan saw for him: misguided henchman for charismatic supervillain. Of course, she has dibs and can summon magic swords, so the supervillain will likely be HER. I can totally see main eight going underground and Susan being the one convincing Elliot they need to.

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5 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Sorry. That's right, it's all magic AFFINITIES which are from Fairy ancestors. So, Nanase, Tedd, Susan, Diane, Sarah, but probably not Justin, Dex or Catalina.

That said, it is quite possible everyone has some immortal ancestor.

Everyone could have some sort of affinity, but based on how difficult it was for Jerry to detect Sarah's, maybe there's a factor in how strong the Fairy connection is that determines how likely a person's affinity would manifest, like someone who's ancestry has had 3-4 points where someone in the family hooked up with another magic user vs someone who's family maybe only had the one Elf who's descendants only married muggles.

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