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Scotty

Story, Wednesday June 21, 2017

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5 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:
2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

That {vivisection of a griffin} would be not only unneeded, but counter-effective. We can learn everything needed from measuring live griffin, we can get bone structure from X-rays for example. And with live griffin, we can make some motion capture as well.

And the other griffins will like you better. Which has some potential to be good for your health.

Well if that griffin you decide to measure will be Andrea, then definitely.

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17 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Would be consistent both with how Disco Wizard talks about it and with the fact that second half of universe is using same magic but different rules.

(BTW ... what if there are no humans in second half of universe? Not in the "never existing" sense, but maybe those two halves used to be closer, then humans concentrated on one half and other magic-using species like griffins and dragons on other half ...)

While this doesn't answer the question of whether or not it'll only be Humans that are affected, the Word of Dan did say the other half was safe:

Quote

"https://danshive.tumblr.com/post/148594366152/if-magic-chose-to-change-how-it-worked-how

If Magic chose to change how it worked, how widespread would the change be? Would the Griffins' world be affected? Would other universes?

danshive:

Only this half has to be worried. The Griffin’s half has magic way, way, WAY out in the open. Their magic is less hipster and more honey badger."

So, that implies that either the WoM only cares about magic being used by few on one half, or each half has it's own WoM.

Wild theory here. What if the creation of the Dewitchery Diamond caused the world to split? They would technically be duplicates, but because of physics and all that, they ended up being on separate planes of existance so that they could continue to share the same physical space. In the case of the WoM, we can probably use Elliot and Ellen as an example and say that the WoM on the main half doesn't want to be the center of attention, but on the other half, the WoM is more impulsive and "look at me!!", They wouldn't be exactly like Elliot and Ellen of course, but if one Will decided it needed to differentiated itself from the other Will...

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4 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Wild theory here. What if the creation of the Dewitchery Diamond caused the world to split?

Andrea is convinced EVERY universe have two sides and she may have several pages of Greek symbols to prove that.

6 minutes ago, Scotty said:

So, that implies that either the WoM only cares about magic being used by few on one half, or each half has it's own WoM.

Yes. However, it does NOT imply second half can't be reset. It just doesn't have any reason to AND it would be separate event, not part of this half's magic reset.

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30 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Andrea is convinced EVERY universe have two sides and she may have several pages of Greek symbols to prove that.

Yes. However, it does NOT imply second half can't be reset. It just doesn't have any reason to AND it would be separate event, not part of this half's magic reset.

There's a lot we don't know about the other half of the world.  We know ambient magic energy flows from one world to the other and probably from the other back.  The simplest way of running magic use for the whole is both component worlds use magic by the same rules.They're one world not two when considered metaphysically.

but magic seems to have one set of rules for humans and another for Immortals, so magic may not do things the simplest way.  if we decide Griffins are "magical creatures", what rules do they use?  Human?  Immortal?  A third set?

What is the other half of the world even like?  Andrea was very bad at hiding, which suggests she doesn't need to hide in her own world.  A magical world then?  Magus' home, perhaps?..

What happens to magical energy that is used in spells?   Sarah puts 'dents" in Moperville's magic buildup and the energy she uses is by definition no longer trying to move to the other side of the world.  Is it recycled?  If not, how is new magical energy generated?
 

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20 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

if we decide Griffins are "magical creatures", what rules do they use?  Human?  Immortal?  A third set?

Uryuom? I know, unlikely, but it IS separate set of rules, meaning there doesn't see to be shortage of rules.

Still, I think the rules are not per "species" but per "home". That Griffins don't have different rules than other creatures on their half of Earth (assuming there ARE other creatures - maybe it's inhabited just by Griffins, at least when only counting sentient creatures).

Immortals (and ancients) ARE something different, yes.

12 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

What is the other half of the world even like?  Andrea was very bad at hiding, which suggests she doesn't need to hide in her own world.  A magical world then?  Magus' home, perhaps?..

We know magic is out in open on other half AND royalty have strong magic. She definitely doesn't need to hide. Dame Tara has official title! She's not hiding, she's documented.

Sigh ... if it's Magus's home, then all theories about him being Elliot's alternate are much less likely. Also, it would suggests he is much closer to home than he believes.

19 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

What happens to magical energy that is used in spells?   Sarah puts 'dents" in Moperville's magic buildup and the energy she uses is by definition no longer trying to move to the other side of the world.  Is it recycled?  If not, how is new magical energy generated?

Is creating and recycling magic connected to the two halves universes or it's completely separate question? What is the reason magic is flowing between the halves?

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36 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

but magic seems to have one set of rules for humans and another for Immortals, so magic may not do things the simplest way.  if we decide Griffins are "magical creatures", what rules do they use?  Human?  Immortal?  A third set?

6 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Still, I think the rules are not per "species" but per "home". That Griffins don't have different rules than other creatures on their half of Earth (assuming there ARE other creatures - maybe it's inhabited just by Griffins, at least when only counting sentient creatures).

See, Vorlonagent is thinking similarly to what I'm thinking. Magic as a whole is the same for most species, same set of spells, same energy. Uryuoms being obvious exclusions due to the fact that they generate their own energy and they don't work in terms of casting spells but physical manipulation and telekinesis.

For the Griffins, do they learn spells the same way Humans do? Do they awaken the same ways, including the possibility of improper awakenings and dealing with the side effects associated with them? What about other residents of their half of the world? Chances are they probably don't because their half of the world would likely be running on a magic system that has probably never changed since Magic began, whereas Magic on the main half as changed at least once, but likely more than once. So if the system on one half of the world is different from another half, and it was the core of the system that did the changing, then one would think that anyone coming over from the other half might suddenly loose the ability to use magic because they've entered an incompatible magic zone. But since the Griffins could still use magic in the main half, it seems plausible that the system change isn't a core change but a change that specifically targets how Humans interacts with it.

 

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Uryuoms being obvious exclusions due to the fact that they generate their own energy and they don't work in terms of casting spells but physical manipulation and telekinesis.

Is that really that obvious? Maybe the way Uryuom power (which is technically magic, the analyzer wand is mistaking it for magic for example) works for Uryuom IS in the list of possibilities Earth magic may work for humans after reset. Like, not the possibility most likely to be chosen, but Uryuom might get to where they are only due some reset.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

For the Griffins, do they learn spells the same way Humans do? Do they awaken the same ways, including the possibility of improper awakenings and dealing with the side effects associated with them? What about other residents of their half of the world? Chances are they probably don't because their half of the world would likely be running on a magic system that has probably never changed since Magic began, whereas Magic on the main half as changed at least once, but likely more than once.

What makes you think the other half of world didn't had any reset? Maybe it wasn't always so ok with being public, or maybe it had other reasons for reseting. Of course, that makes both systems being same LESS likely, not more.

And I already mentioned: Griffins obviously can use spells and are able to research magic ; they may be magical creatures, but only regarding their flying (and possibly some other aspects of their bodies), not their spells. They can loose that if their magic resets again, but it's unlikely it will AND the last reset was probably even more in past than last reset on "our" half of Earth.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

So if the system on one half of the world is different from another half, and it was the core of the system that did the changing, then one would think that anyone coming over from the other half might suddenly loose the ability to use magic because they've entered an incompatible magic zone. But since the Griffins could still use magic in the main half, it seems plausible that the system change isn't a core change but a change that specifically targets how Humans interacts with it.

Agree. Griffins still being able to use magic - and not even complaining about something working differently - is another argument (first being the magic flowing between halves) for the "core" magic being same and just the interaction with "humans" changing.

Our only disagreement is how strictly "humans" should be taken. I think that it would include any other earth-native sapient animal (like, maybe dolphins? Maybe they can awaken just as humans? Angst-induced awakening because whalers killed their parents? Where the legends about merfolks came from on EGS? Is apologizing to dolphin magic users for coral  reefs destruction something Edward is now supposed to do, as part of his diplomacy job?) ... and, more importantly, I think that aberrations, former humans, still work by same rules as humans. Oh, and werewolves would too, if Pandora didn't killed them all.

 

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15 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Uryuom? I know, unlikely, but it IS separate set of rules, meaning there doesn't see to be shortage of rules.

Uryouom energy is a different class of "magical energy" altogether.  It is not a ruleset for Earth-magic.

Grace, who uses Uryouom energy, cannot cast spells.  She cannot even use Tedd's watches.

Noah is a greater seynoulu like Grace and he does cast spells but he seems to act under the same rules as any other earth-magic-magic user, not under Uryouom rules.  Interesting to note: We have never seen Noah shapeshift.  Did he exchange one magical energy system for another?

Both the griffins we know cast spells.  They seem to have some instinctive insight like Immortals.  They most closely match the rules for elves to be honest. 

15 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Still, I think the rules are not per "species" but per "home". That Griffins don't have different rules than other creatures on their half of Earth (assuming there ARE other creatures - maybe it's inhabited just by Griffins, at least when only counting sentient creatures).

We know magic is out in open on other half AND royalty have strong magic. She definitely doesn't need to hide. Dame Tara has official title! She's not hiding, she's documented.

We also know that there are humans over there because of the casual way the Griffins treated Nanase.  EGS-Prime's Earth still has a lot of weird stuff in the margins.  EGS-Prime could even have a native griffin population.  I don't know how behind that I am but it's a possibility.

15 hours ago, Scotty said:

For the Griffins, do they learn spells the same way Humans do? Do they awaken the same ways, including the possibility of improper awakenings and dealing with the side effects associated with them?

Adrian Raven uses magic.  Did he Awaken or simply unlock that ability?  Maybe Griffins unlock the ability to use magic at a certain age as well...

I tend to think there's 3 rulesets. 

  1. Rules for Immortals/Ancients, maybe others.
  2. Rules for magical creatures (Griffins, also half-Immortals like Elves)
  3. Rules for mortals (commonly humans). 

I tend to want to think the rules are the same on both sides of the world. 

I would also think that the common general rules tend to have specific implementations for each type that follows it (Even if all elves "taste" magic with their ears, for example, If Griffins have that same sense, it would work in an unrelated way)

I would speculate that a mortal with a magical affinity makes the possessor of that affinity a little bit of a magical creature in the narrow sense that the affinity, not the possessor, follows the magical creature rules and remains through Magic resets.

Edit: Though how and affinity expresses itself would depend on the current mortal-magic ruleset and could/would change when Magic resets.
 

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24 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

Adrian Raven uses magic.  Did he Awaken or simply unlock that ability?

Good question. Let's hypothetically say it is the latter. We'd then need to work out which achievement or set of achievements needed to gain that unlock. We'd also need to know if he got it from the Xbox One, the PS4 or some other console, and which game or games he played to get them. It would almost certainly have to be magic-related games, though I suppose we can't entirely rule out games where you do not use magic yourself but do have access to devices and the like.

As a minimum, I think he'd need the complete set of achievements from the Legends of Celida franchise as well as Super Smash Goons Melee and the online variant of Magical Gatherings. It would probably be helpful to have a nice group of completed Harry Potter games in his portfolio, too.

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Just now, The Old Hack said:

Good question. Let's hypothetically say it is the latter. We'd then need to work out which achievement or set of achievements needed to gain that unlock. We'd also need to know if he got it from the Xbox One, the PS4 or some other console, and which game or games he played to get them. It would almost certainly have to be magic-related games, though I suppose we can't entirely rule out games where you do not use magic yourself but do have access to devices and the like.

Raven has had magic long enough to have unlocked it on an Atari 2600.

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13 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Is that really that obvious? Maybe the way Uryuom power (which is technically magic, the analyzer wand is mistaking it for magic for example) works for Uryuom IS in the list of possibilities Earth magic may work for humans after reset. Like, not the possibility most likely to be chosen, but Uryuom might get to where they are only due some reset.

Uryuoms's power comes from within, which suggests that they can generate their own power like mammals generate body heat. For Humans it's a bit different, I think they absorb magic energy from their surroundings and store it within themselves, in the case of Nanase's period of being burnt out, she was still getting energy, but she couldn't cast spells so it made her hair grow, I imagine the rate at which her hair grew was influenced by the higher ambient energy in Moperville and if she were elsewhere, she might not have had such fast growing hair. Elliot and Ellen's energy buildups were harder to deal with because of it as well so it would suggest that their improper awakenings caused them to absorb energy faster than normal and because it wouldn't stop, it forced them to cast spells to expend the energy, and according to Ellen, leaving the high energy area helped to get her buildups to stop, less energy to absorb so it allowed her absorption rate to calm down as it was no longer surrounded high concentrations of energy.

17 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

Uryouom energy is a different class of "magical energy" altogether.  It is not a ruleset for Earth-magic.

Grace, who uses Uryouom energy, cannot cast spells.  She cannot even use Tedd's watches.

Noah is a greater seynoulu like Grace and he does cast spells but he seems to act under the same rules as any other earth-magic-magic user, not under Uryouom rules.  Interesting to note: We have never seen Noah shapeshift.  Did he exchange one magical energy system for another?

It is possible for Grace, and presumably all Seyunolus to learn Earth Magic, Greater Chimeras would need to first suppress their Uryuom power in order to be able to draw on Earth Magic energy which would take a good deal of hard work and concentration, but not impossible, Noah would likely have had to do this. Lesser Chimeras probably have it easier since lack of Uryuom characteristics would mean lack of Uryuom power that would need to be suppressed.

14 hours ago, hkmaly said:

What makes you think the other half of world didn't had any reset? Maybe it wasn't always so ok with being public, or maybe it had other reasons for reseting. Of course, that makes both systems being same LESS likely, not more.

It was just a guess base of Dan's description that the Will on the other half prefers magic to be open to everyone, if that's the case why would it need to reset?

14 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Our only disagreement is how strictly "humans" should be taken. I think that it would include any other earth-native sapient animal (like, maybe dolphins? Maybe they can awaken just as humans? Angst-induced awakening because whalers killed their parents? Where the legends about merfolks came from on EGS? Is apologizing to dolphin magic users for coral  reefs destruction something Edward is now supposed to do, as part of his diplomacy job?) ... and, more importantly, I think that aberrations, former humans, still work by same rules as humans. Oh, and werewolves would too, if Pandora didn't killed them all.

I'm not sure about Dolphins, but it would depend on how they gained the ability to use it I guess. In term of Aberrations and Werewolves, it was Human magic that made them that way so yeah, they would be affected, Aberrations lossing the ability to use the magic the sustains them will probably, according to Edward, kill them. It probably wouldn't be instant, but more like starving them to death because they no longer can absorb the life energy from their prey. As for Werewolves, if they weren't completely wiped out, they may have been more lucky since it's a transformation that's trigger by the time of day, it would probably end up like how Tedd was expecting it when he was trying to decide which gender to be stuck as if magic changed. Of course it that's the case, unless all Werewolves are on the side of the world that was daytime (and thus in their human forms) when magic changed, some may end up being stuck in wolf forms.

Merfolks would likely also depend on where they originated, if they used to be Human who magically altered their forms to live underwater, then they would be affected, It wouldn't change them back to being human so it's not like they'd all suddenly drown, but if they relied heavily on magic for their daily activities, then they'd probably end up scrambling to figure out the new system or resort to more conventional methods.

43 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

Adrian Raven uses magic.  Did he Awaken or simply unlock that ability?  Maybe Griffins unlock the ability to use magic at a certain age as well...

According to the Legacy of Pandora, she trained Adrian much like Wizards would train, whether he had an awakening or was merely awakened by default of being half immortal is something we can only speculate unless Dan's planning on telling us more about the nature of Human relationship to Fairies. Who knows, maybe because Adrian's an Elf, a magic change would only briefly affect him and he'd be able quickly learn the new system.

Maybe Tedd's special purpose is somewhat similar to how Immortals interact with Magic, according to Pandora's memoirs, she felt the change, but she couldn't pin down what it was exactly, so I don't think they lost their abilities, or maybe Immortals are so ingrained with Magic that they instantly adapted to it. Makes me think that Tedd's "rarity" is such that his parents had the right mix of ancestry that it unlocked those latent Immortal traits that allowed them to survive through magic changes. The fact that Tedd's magic potential doesn't register on the wand would also be due to those Immortal traits since Immortals can't be detected by conventional magic detection methods. Does this mean Tedd would be a new generation of Immortal? I dunno, that might be what the second purpose is related to and why it's imperative that Tedd be eligible for it and why Heka wanted to be sure that Tedd was morally good. Tedd not being morally good is something Voltaire seems to want, maybe if Tedd is a new generation of Immortal, depending on how things go in regards to the second purpose, he may be capable of shaking up the Immortal realm real bad.

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18 minutes ago, Scotty said:

According to the Legacy of Pandora, she trained Adrian much like Wizards would train, whether he had an awakening or was merely awakened by default of being half immortal is something we can only speculate unless Dan's planning on telling us more about the nature of Human relationship to Fairies. Who knows, maybe because Adrian's an Elf, a magic change would only briefly affect him and he'd be able quickly learn the new system.

Could you remind me what the "Legacy of Pandora" is? You seem to be using it as if it were a title and I'm not recognizing it. 

I'm usually good at keeping my continuity sources straight too...

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45 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

Could you remind me what the "Legacy of Pandora" is? You seem to be using it as if it were a title and I'm not recognizing it. 

I'm usually good at keeping my continuity sources straight too...

Part 1 of Sister 3 is titled "Legacy" is it about Pandora. so Legacy of Pandora.

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Part 1 of Sister 3 is titled "Legacy" is it about Pandora. so Legacy of Pandora.

OK then.  That explains why I didn't have a reference.  Suggest "Legacy (of Pandora)" or "(Pandora's) Legacy" for clarity's sake in the future since only you understand the title as you write it.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

According to the Legacy of Pandora, she trained Adrian much like Wizards would train, whether he had an awakening or was merely awakened by default of being half immortal is something we can only speculate unless Dan's planning on telling us more about the nature of Human relationship to Fairies. Who knows, maybe because Adrian's an Elf, a magic change would only briefly affect him and he'd be able quickly learn the new system.

Is this the comic you're referencing?  Dan's language is vague about Adrian's magic training.  Arguably an Immortal need not train an Elf in magic the way humans train other humans.  He does seem to have taken to magic very fast and very young.  That tends to mitigate against Adrian needing an Awakening, but doesn't prove he didn't need one.

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1 minute ago, Vorlonagent said:

Is this the comic you're referencing?  Dan's language is vague about Adrian's magic training.  Arguably an Immortal need not train an Elf in magic the way humans train other humans.  He does seem to have taken to magic very fast and very young.  That tends to mitigate against Adrian needing an Awakening, but doesn't prove he didn't need one.

Yeah that's the comic I'm referencing, I mainly basing my thoughts on how Pandora appears to be instructing Adrian on how to cast a particular spell, comes across as a wizard needing to learn the technique that other wizards use.

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40 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Yeah that's the comic I'm referencing, I mainly basing my thoughts on how Pandora appears to be instructing Adrian on how to cast a particular spell, comes across as a wizard needing to learn the technique that other wizards use.

The usual magic user route is Lots of study till you make it.

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3 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

Uryouom energy is a different class of "magical energy" altogether.  It is not a ruleset for Earth-magic.

Grace, who uses Uryouom energy, cannot cast spells.  She cannot even use Tedd's watches.

Noah is a greater seynoulu like Grace and he does cast spells but he seems to act under the same rules as any other earth-magic-magic user, not under Uryouom rules.  Interesting to note: We have never seen Noah shapeshift.  Did he exchange one magical energy system for another?

Noah, similarly as Grace, is part human and part Uryuom. Therefore, he can use Uryuom power OR Earth magic, but Uryuom power is easier. He needed to learn to suppress his Uryuom power to learn spells. He was also never transformed by TF gun, never trained shapeshifting AND is not part Lespuko, so his transformation abilities are much more limited than Grace's.

4 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

I tend to think there's 3 rulesets. 

  1. Rules for Immortals/Ancients, maybe others.
  2. Rules for magical creatures (Griffins, also half-Immortals like Elves)
  3. Rules for mortals (commonly humans). 

I tend to want to think the rules are the same on both sides of the world. 

I would also think that the common general rules tend to have specific implementations for each type that follows it (Even if all elves "taste" magic with their ears, for example, If Griffins have that same sense, it would work in an unrelated way)

I would speculate that a mortal with a magical affinity makes the possessor of that affinity a little bit of a magical creature in the narrow sense that the affinity, not the possessor, follows the magical creature rules and remains through Magic resets.

Edit: Though how and affinity expresses itself would depend on the current mortal-magic ruleset and could/would change when Magic resets.

There are few problems with this division:

1) Affinities are based on (diluted) fairy genes. It would therefore make sense that humans with affinities would "work" very similar as Elves.

2) Griffins may easily be "mortal". Not being royalty, they seem to have LESS magic than royalty-level magic users - they basically said they are less powerful than Nanase.

3) Dan directly said that rules on the other side of world are different.

3 hours ago, Scotty said:

For Humans it's a bit different, I think they absorb magic energy from their surroundings and store it within themselves, in the case of Nanase's period of being burnt out, she was still getting energy, but she couldn't cast spells so it made her hair grow, I imagine the rate at which her hair grew was influenced by the higher ambient energy in Moperville and if she were elsewhere, she might not have had such fast growing hair. Elliot and Ellen's energy buildups were harder to deal with because of it as well so it would suggest that their improper awakenings caused them to absorb energy faster than normal and because it wouldn't stop, it forced them to cast spells to expend the energy, and according to Ellen, leaving the high energy area helped to get her buildups to stop, less energy to absorb so it allowed her absorption rate to calm down as it was no longer surrounded high concentrations of energy.

The explanation for buildups was actually suggesting that magic users GENERATE magic and that outside Moperville they don't really have ambient magic to use - or absorb. (The exact term Edward used was energy regeneration.)

3 hours ago, Scotty said:
18 hours ago, hkmaly said:

What makes you think the other half of world didn't had any reset? Maybe it wasn't always so ok with being public, or maybe it had other reasons for reseting. Of course, that makes both systems being same LESS likely, not more.

It was just a guess base of Dan's description that the Will on the other half prefers magic to be open to everyone, if that's the case why would it need to reset?

I said that: maybe it had other reasons for reseting. Like ... to many magic creatures? Not enough magic creatures? Magic used for evil too often? Magic used for evil too sparingly? Options are unlimited, really. The existence of "reset" option suggest that Will of Magic is not omniscient enough to get the rules right on first try.

3 hours ago, Scotty said:

they may have been more lucky since it's a transformation that's trigger by the time of day

Isn't it traditionally time of month?

3 hours ago, Scotty said:

Merfolks would likely also depend on where they originated, if they used to be Human who magically altered their forms to live underwater, then they would be affected, It wouldn't change them back to being human so it's not like they'd all suddenly drown, but if they relied heavily on magic for their daily activities, then they'd probably end up scrambling to figure out the new system or resort to more conventional methods.

I was actually suggesting that Merfolks are dolphins transformed to gain opposable thumbs and few other cool things humans got for free.

3 hours ago, Scotty said:

According to the Legacy of Pandora, she trained Adrian much like Wizards would train, whether he had an awakening or was merely awakened by default of being half immortal is something we can only speculate unless Dan's planning on telling us more about the nature of Human relationship to Fairies. Who knows, maybe because Adrian's an Elf, a magic change would only briefly affect him and he'd be able quickly learn the new system.

Maybe Tedd's special purpose is somewhat similar to how Immortals interact with Magic, according to Pandora's memoirs, she felt the change, but she couldn't pin down what it was exactly, so I don't think they lost their abilities, or maybe Immortals are so ingrained with Magic that they instantly adapted to it. Makes me think that Tedd's "rarity" is such that his parents had the right mix of ancestry that it unlocked those latent Immortal traits that allowed them to survive through magic changes.

Actually, Pandora's not being able to pin down what changed suggests it's something DIFFERENT than Tedd's rarity. I think that immortals counts as not humans and are using different kind of magic (would explain why it can't be sensed) and only use "normal" magic when casting on humans. Meanwhile, Tedd will actually be able to say what changed.

3 hours ago, Scotty said:

The fact that Tedd's magic potential doesn't register on the wand would also be due to those Immortal traits since Immortals can't be detected by conventional magic detection methods. Does this mean Tedd would be a new generation of Immortal? I dunno, that might be what the second purpose is related to and why it's imperative that Tedd be eligible for it and why Heka wanted to be sure that Tedd was morally good. Tedd not being morally good is something Voltaire seems to want, maybe if Tedd is a new generation of Immortal, depending on how things go in regards to the second purpose, he may be capable of shaking up the Immortal realm real bad.

I don't like the idea of Tedd turning into immortal but it's true based on the little we know it may work that way ... maybe all immortals are seers from previous resets ...

... but if Tedd's second purpose is supposed to shake up the Immortal realm, I think it would need to be something MORE than just turning him into immortal. I still think he is able to influence (partially) how the new rules will work, but can't do it consciously and that's why he can't know about it.

13 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:
54 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Yeah that's the comic I'm referencing, I mainly basing my thoughts on how Pandora appears to be instructing Adrian on how to cast a particular spell, comes across as a wizard needing to learn the technique that other wizards use.

The usual magic user route is Lots of study till you make it.

Considering how easy would be for Pandora to trigger it in Adrian instead, I think Adrian only needed to study the specific spells.

 

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Crap.  I just lost a post, replying to four different posts on this thread.  No draft saved.  Not sure how it happened, my keyboard (onscreen on my iPad) just suddenly quit working, and when I tried moving away from the page and back, my whole almost-finished post was gone.

Not gonna try to recreate it just now.  :-P

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11 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

Raven has had magic long enough to have unlocked it on an Atari 2600.

 

9 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

For that matter, he probably has every achievement possible on not only ENIAC but on Babbage's difference engine.

Pandora, on the other hand, unlocked her achievements on the Antikythera mechanism.

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10 hours ago, The Old Hack said:
15 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Pandora, on the other hand, unlocked her achievements on the Antikythera mechanism.

Nah, I think she did it on Stonehenge.

Waaait, she needs to unlock her achievements after every reset, doesn't she? So, both may be true.

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