np NP, Friday June 23, 2017

[Scotty 1,061]

50 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

Trek VI was, sadly, the last Trek film too.  Best to go out with a bang than a whimper I suppose.
 

Hey, First Contact was good too.

[Vorlonagent 442]

3 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Hey, First Contact was good too.

I acknowledge that your point of view concurs with that of most Trek fans.

[Pharaoh RutinTutin 1,586]

The problem with most of the Next Generation movies is that, as movies, they were OK.  The kind of movies that are fine for cable, home video, and the discount second run cinema in the mall.  They would have made good (maybe very good, or even great) TV episodes.  But despite the inflated special effects budget, they never struck me as epic features.

But to be fair, I think only II and IV have really hit that standard so far.

[The Old Hack 2,448]

3 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

But to be fair, I think only II and IV have really hit that standard so far.

I agree. Especially IV was a whale of a movie.

[ProfessorTomoe 1,308]

1 hour ago, The Old Hack said:

I agree. Especially IV was a whale of a movie.

Say good night, Gracie.

[Vorlonagent 442]

1 hour ago, The Old Hack said:

I agree. Especially IV was a whale of a movie.

...chasing nuclear wessels. 

It was a decent light comedy but the framing story (Generic Death Probe #147 destroying Earth) left something to be desired.  I'm mildly surprised the whale didn't tell the probe "yeah go ahead and kill 'em all.  That's what they did to us".  Guess it wasn't in the script...

Even odd-numbered Trek movies have something to recommend them.

III "Don't call me 'tiny'."  also Christopher Lloyd as a Klingon captain.

V: "What does 'God' need with a starship?"

 

[The Old Hack 2,448]

59 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

...chasing nuclear wessels. 

It was a decent light comedy but the framing story (Generic Death Probe #147 destroying Earth) left something to be desired.  I'm mildly surprised the whale didn't tell the probe "yeah go ahead and kill 'em all.  That's what they did to us".  Guess it wasn't in the script...

Thanks to SF Debris, I am able to present the following transcript of what actually went on between the whales and the aliens:

Whale 1: Oh God, it's them...
Whale 2: Tell 'em... tell 'em I'm not here, maybe they'll go away.
Alien: Can you hear me?
Whale 2: Yes! A deaf man could hear you!
Whale 1: So are we going to talk or are you just going to sit there, dumbass?
Whale 2: Jesus Christ, would you just get on with it!
Alien: So, um, we were just, um, kinda wondering how everything is? You never call.
Whale 1: We're whales, of course we don't call. We have no radios, idiot!
Alien: Hey, there's no need for that. We just came to help!
Whale 2: Help? You're trashing my fucking planet? Dude, what the Hell?
Alien: Huh?
Whale 1: You're destroying the oceans. You know, where we live? Just fuck off already!
Alien: If you're gonna be that way, fine, we will!

At which point the aliens leave.

No, don't thank me. It was my pleasure. For more Star Trek in-depth analysis, please visit SF Debris at www.sfdebris.com . Enjoy.

[animalia 64]

4 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

Thanks to SF Debris, I am able to present the following transcript of what actually went on between the whales and the aliens:

Whale 1: Oh God, it's them...
Whale 2: Tell 'em... tell 'em I'm not here, maybe they'll go away.
Alien: Can you hear me?
Whale 2: Yes! A deaf man could hear you!
Whale 1: So are we going to talk or are you just going to sit there, dumbass?
Whale 2: Jesus Christ, would you just get on with it!
Alien: So, um, we were just, um, kinda wondering how everything is? You never call.
Whale 1: We're whales, of course we don't call. We have no radios, idiot!
Alien: Hey, there's no need for that. We just came to help!
Whale 2: Help? You're trashing my fucking planet? Dude, what the Hell?
Alien: Huh?
Whale 1: You're destroying the oceans. You know, where we live? Just fuck off already!
Alien: If you're gonna be that way, fine, we will!

At which point the aliens leave.

No, don't thank me. It was my pleasure. For more Star Trek in-depth analysis, please visit SF Debris at www.sfdebris.com . Enjoy.

Thank you. I love sfdebris.

[hkmaly 490]

8 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

The difference between a legal-to-sell (by Uyouom law) CMD and the illegal-to-sell device Will and Gill gave to Tedd is all back-end functionality.  In the following comic Will describes it as a "common cosmetic morph device" and reiterates that what makes it different is the programming language by which it operates.

"Common" has to mean that there's nothing unique in how Tedd's TF Gun operates in terms of transformations.  Any CMD would do for a greater Seynoulu what Tedd's would do.

If you mean regarding the "fixing transformation", yes.

8 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

"Common" should also mean "plenty of them among Earth's Uryouom population".  The people helping Grace's siblings should be a part of the paranormal community and therefore should have easy access to a CMD if they wanted one.

It may also mean "plenty of them among general Uryuom population", not specifically on Earth. We are not sure how big the community of Uryuom on Earth is. Apparently, not big enough to contain any senior programmer.

8 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

I'll back off partly on making Vladia male.  Only Tedd's TF gun or another like it could easily make Vladia male.  You could do it with a legal CMD but setting up the form is implied to be a major programming headache.  Probably like working with COBOL or something.

Yes.

7 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

The problem with most of the Next Generation movies is that, as movies, they were OK.  The kind of movies that are fine for cable, home video, and the discount second run cinema in the mall.  They would have made good (maybe very good, or even great) TV episodes.  But despite the inflated special effects budget, they never struck me as epic features.

Well, if you compare with The Way of the Warrior or The Best of Both Worlds on the "TV episode" side and Avatar or Lord of the Rings on the "movie" side ...

 

[Vorlonagent 442]

19 hours ago, hkmaly said:

If you mean regarding the "fixing transformation", yes.

That's what I mean.

19 hours ago, hkmaly said:

It may also mean "plenty of them among general Uryuom population", not specifically on Earth. We are not sure how big the community of Uryuom on Earth is. Apparently, not big enough to contain any senior programmer.

If Will says "common" that ought to be taken from his frame of reference.  His frame of reference is as an Uryouom hatched and raised on Earth and should reflect CMD availability on Earth.  You'd expect they would be something of a necessity.

As you imply, however, there are plenty of gifted human programmers who would crack the legal CMD programming language just to say they did it.  Maybe Uryouoms are different?  I dunno. 

You'd think there'd be at least an underground community on the Uroyuom homeworld which has legal CMD units thoroughly hacked, but Will and Gill would never have brought their gray market (pardon the pun) TF Gun to Ed Verres if they had access to hacked CMDs that could give them fully human forms.

19 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Well, if you compare with The Way of the Warrior or The Best of Both Worlds on the "TV episode" side and Avatar or Lord of the Rings on the "movie" side ...

Equating *that* Avater and Lord of the Rings in any way seems rather off to me.  You weren't happy with Peter Jackson's work?  I can understand why people might be a bit put out by his "Hobbit" movies.  I know I found them disappointing, but the Lord of the Rings was top-notch stuff.

...the way Avatar wasn't. 

M. Night Shamalan and Michael Bay. Two directors with fatal flaws to their style who get plenty of movie work and really shouldn't...

[HarJIT 97]

30 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

That's what I mean.

If Will says "common" that ought to be taken from his frame of reference.  His frame of reference is as an Uryouom hatched and raised on Earth and should reflect CMD availability on Earth.  You'd expect they would be something of a necessity.

As you imply, however, there are plenty of gifted human programmers who would crack the legal CMD programming language just to say they did it.  Maybe Uryouoms are different?  I dunno. 

You'd think there'd be at least an underground community on the Uroyuom homeworld which has legal CMD units thoroughly hacked, but Will and Gill would never have brought their gray market (pardon the pun) TF Gun to Ed Verres if they had access to hacked CMDs that could give them fully human forms.

Equating *that* Avater and Lord of the Rings in any way seems rather off to me.  You weren't happy with Peter Jackson's work?  I can understand why people might be a bit put out by his "Hobbit" movies.  I know I found them disappointing, but the Lord of the Rings was top-notch stuff.

...the way Avatar wasn't. 

M. Night Shamalan and Michael Bay. Two directors with fatal flaws to their style who get plenty of movie work and really shouldn't...

hkmaly linked James Cameron, not Shyamalan.

[Vorlonagent 442]

1 minute ago, HarJIT said:

hkmaly linked James Cameron, not Shyamalan.

My error.  I just saw "2009" and remembered the worse of the two movies. 

Not that Cameron's "Ferngully/Dances with Wolves" remake rates much higher with me...

[Scotty 1,061]

37 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

Not that Cameron's "Ferngully/Dances with Wolves" remake rates much higher with me...

I thought it was a Pocahontas remake.

[Don Edwards 548]

25 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I thought it was a Pocahontas remake.

A Pocahontas remake with giant smurfs, was the description I got.

[hkmaly 490]

3 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

22 hours ago, hkmaly said:

It may also mean "plenty of them among general Uryuom population", not specifically on Earth. We are not sure how big the community of Uryuom on Earth is. Apparently, not big enough to contain any senior programmer.

If Will says "common" that ought to be taken from his frame of reference.  His frame of reference is as an Uryouom hatched and raised on Earth and should reflect CMD availability on Earth.  You'd expect they would be something of a necessity.

Hmmmm ... considering he was born on Earth, it SHOULD be, true ... on the other hand, he was talking about devices legally sold on his parent-planet, suggesting there isn't any market for them on Earth.

3 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

As you imply, however, there are plenty of gifted human programmers who would crack the legal CMD programming language just to say they did it.  Maybe Uryouoms are different?  I dunno. 

You'd think there'd be at least an underground community on the Uroyuom homeworld which has legal CMD units thoroughly hacked, but Will and Gill would never have brought their gray market (pardon the pun) TF Gun to Ed Verres if they had access to hacked CMDs that could give them fully human forms.

There may be some reason why it's impossible to just hack legal CMDs without hardware modifications. Like, maybe the architecture is that bad - ok, ok, some people would take that as challenge, I know. But the basic premise is already pretty weird, so maybe it's part of suspension of disbelief caused by Dan not understanding programming/hacking enough (as he admitted in commentary).

I was more commenting that the gray market TF Gun was obviously BUILD by some Uryuom (William's parents, specifically) using language which Uryuom used (although not for CMDs) and therefore some senior Uryuom programmer should be able to work with it faster than Tedd.

... in fact, WHAT happened with William's parents? Why didn't THEM upgraded the device?

2 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

I thought it was a Pocahontas remake.

A Pocahontas remake with giant smurfs, was the description I got.

Don't forget it's 3D. That's very important point. Soooo ... maybe it's like watching Pocahontas with one eye and Dances with Wolves with the other?

... BTW, whoa, smilies started working!

3 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

3 hours ago, HarJIT said:

hkmaly linked James Cameron, not Shyamalan.

My error.  I just saw "2009" and remembered the worse of the two movies. 

I was thinking about adding something that you would get different results if you compare with THAT avatar. Or with, say, THIS hobbit instead of the Jackson's one. Or whatever this was from - oh wait that was standalone. Nevertheless, it DOES include Spock, so it's definitely on-topic with Star Trek ...

3 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

Not that Cameron's "Ferngully/Dances with Wolves" remake rates much higher with me...

It doesn't rate high with originality, but it definitely rates hight with budget and effects.

[Vorlonagent 442]

18 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Hmmmm ... considering he was born on Earth, it SHOULD be, true ... on the other hand, he was talking about devices legally sold on his parent-planet, suggesting there isn't any market for them on Earth

I didn't get that impression.  I thought earth-based Uryouoms were bound by homeworld law even living on Earth.  In the next comic Ed Verres first question is whether the TF Gun is illegal.

23 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

There may be some reason why it's impossible to just hack legal CMDs without hardware modifications. Like, maybe the architecture is that bad - ok, ok, some people would take that as challenge, I know. But the basic premise is already pretty weird, so maybe it's part of suspension of disbelief caused by Dan not understanding programming/hacking enough (as he admitted in commentary).

I was more commenting that the gray market TF Gun was obviously BUILD by some Uryuom (William's parents, specifically) using language which Uryuom used (although not for CMDs) and therefore some senior Uryuom programmer should be able to work with it faster than Tedd.

... in fact, WHAT happened with William's parents? Why didn't THEM upgraded the device?

I'm willing to go with that Dan not being fully aware how programming works. Dan bends over backwards to explain his world enough as it is.  The gimmick that provides the motivation to putting the TF Gun in Ted's hands?  I can let that slide.

I can only speculate why Will couldn't ask his parent to fiddle with the TF Gun, but possible answers are too busy, tinkers with hardware but not software or just forgot too many details to have any better perspective than anybody else.  Will's parent may not be alive anymore, might have returned home, might have moved on to an entirely different world.  It could be that it's illegal to program or operate an OOP-using TF Gun...for an Uryouom, but obviously not a human.

40 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

It doesn't rate high with originality, but it definitely rates hight with budget and effects.

So does the latest Transformers movie... 

[hkmaly 490]

34 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Hmmmm ... considering he was born on Earth, it SHOULD be, true ... on the other hand, he was talking about devices legally sold on his parent-planet, suggesting there isn't any market for them on Earth

I didn't get that impression.  I thought earth-based Uryouoms were bound by homeworld law even living on Earth.

You got impression Uryuom have battlecruiser on Earth's orbit? Cloaked one, presumably, as otherwise it would be hard to hide. Unless Mr. Verres wrote "this is totally transparent" on it.

Anyway, no. If Earth would accept that law, he wouldn't be talking about parent planet. Edward concerns might be either moral or related to the possibility that helping criminals could cause some problems even while technically legal - especially if the way William obtained it was to steal the prototype from some Uryuom government secret research facility.

41 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

I'm willing to go with that Dan not being fully aware how programming works. Dan bends over backwards to explain his world enough as it is.  The gimmick that provides the motivation to putting the TF Gun in Ted's hands?  I can let that slide.

Yeah ... there are worse problems Dan is avoiding. Like the question of how many Uryuoms are on Earth (also WHY). Because both "few" and "lot" would have sideefects, and what about the FTL technology they presumably possess to get there?

44 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

I can only speculate why Will couldn't ask his parent to fiddle with the TF Gun, but possible answers are too busy, tinkers with hardware but not software or just forgot too many details to have any better perspective than anybody else.  Will's parent may not be alive anymore, might have returned home, might have moved on to an entirely different world.  It could be that it's illegal to program or operate an OOP-using TF Gun...for an Uryouom, but obviously not a human.

Yes. Another option is that while it's legal, the parents are so religious they didn't want to touch the stuff since someone told them it's religiously sanctioned.

Obviously we can only speculate ... because Dan is unlikely to make story arc for it. If that would be enough ... might be something requiring whole novel to explain. Also, explaining the religious stuff without alienating some religious readers would be hard.

 

[Vorlonagent 442]

4 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

You got impression Uryuom have battlecruiser on Earth's orbit? Cloaked one, presumably, as otherwise it would be hard to hide. Unless Mr. Verres wrote "this is totally transparent" on it.

Anyway, no. If Earth would accept that law, he wouldn't be talking about parent planet. Edward concerns might be either moral or related to the possibility that helping criminals could cause some problems even while technically legal - especially if the way William obtained it was to steal the prototype from some Uryuom government secret research facility.

There isn't a battlecruiser that we know of overhead, but there is at least one flying saucer....

I didn't say Earth was under Uryouom law.  Obviously it is not.  But the Uryouoms living on Earth might be a different matter.

5 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Yeah ... there are worse problems Dan is avoiding. Like the question of how many Uryuoms are on Earth (also WHY). Because both "few" and "lot" would have sideefects, and what about the FTL technology they presumably possess to get there.

Not this story.  Nothing to see here, move along...

5 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Yes. Another option is that while it's legal, the parents are so religious they didn't want to touch the stuff since someone told them it's religiously sanctioned.

They would have had to have gotten religion after building the device (and giving it to Will).  I wouldn't think Uryouom religion would have been silent on the question of CMDs and suddenly wake up and ban OOP versions one day.  It was no doubt a while building.  Will's parents would have religious objections now, they wouldn't have had them then or the parent that built the TF gun wouldn't have built it.

9 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Obviously we can only speculate ... because Dan is unlikely to make story arc for it. If that would be enough ... might be something requiring whole novel to explain. Also, explaining the religious stuff without alienating some religious readers would be hard.

I don't see a reason to ever address the question.  It's such a minor tangent to the stories Dan actually wants to tell.

[Scotty 1,061]

1 hour ago, Vorlonagent said:

I didn't get that impression.  I thought earth-based Uryouoms were bound by homeworld law even living on Earth.  In the next comic Ed Verres first question is whether the TF Gun is illegal.

As also stated by William in the next comic, the TFG was made by his parents before the laws against that type of programming was passed, it was legal for him to own it, but he specifically said he couldn't sell it on the parent planet, so we could assume that he'd be able to sell it on Earth and not get in trouble.

[Vorlonagent 442]

1 minute ago, Scotty said:

As also stated by William in the next comic, the TFG was made by his parents before the laws against that type of programming was passed, it was legal for him to own it, but he specifically said he couldn't sell it on the parent planet, so we could assume that he'd be able to sell it on Earth and not get in trouble.

Why would Will mention legal entanglements that wouldn't apply to the current situation?  That's what gave me the idea that Uryouom law might extend to Uryouoms on other worlds such as Earth.

[hkmaly 490]

30 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

There isn't a battlecruiser that we know of overhead, but there is at least one flying saucer....

I didn't say Earth was under Uryouom law.  Obviously it is not.  But the Uryouoms living on Earth might be a different matter

That would make them aliens. But William is born and raised US citizen. That means he's under US law practically by definition.

30 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

They would have had to have gotten religion after building the device (and giving it to Will).  I wouldn't think Uryouom religion would have been silent on the question of CMDs and suddenly wake up and ban OOP versions one day.  It was no doubt a while building.  Will's parents would have religious objections now, they wouldn't have had them then or the parent that built the TF gun wouldn't have built it.

They might been the sort of believers who are compensating lack of actual knowledge of their religion with fanaticism.

30 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

I don't see a reason to ever address the question.  It's such a minor tangent to the stories Dan actually wants to tell.

I see "Hey that would be interesting" as valid reason. I like well-build worlds. But yes, Dan obviously doesn't have enough time for stories he WANTS to tell, so why would he spent it on tangents.

20 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

24 minutes ago, Scotty said:

As also stated by William in the next comic, the TFG was made by his parents before the laws against that type of programming was passed, it was legal for him to own it, but he specifically said he couldn't sell it on the parent planet, so we could assume that he'd be able to sell it on Earth and not get in trouble.

Why would Will mention legal entanglements that wouldn't apply to the current situation?  That's what gave me the idea that Uryouom law might extend to Uryouoms on other worlds such as Earth.

It game ME the idea that there are just few Uryuoms on Earth and there is basically no market for CMD on Earth to speak about, so any CMD on Earth was bought on parent planet and then brought here.

So, it's not because the EARTH (or Uryuoms on Earth) would be under that law ; it's because the MARKET would be under that law.

On the other hand, the conversation is FILLED with stating the obvious. Both William and Edward are saying stuff which would never be mentioned in normal conversation and this may be part of it.

41 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Edward concerns might be either moral or related to the possibility that helping criminals could cause some problems even while technically legal - especially if the way William obtained it was to steal the prototype from some Uryuom government secret research facility.

PS: Just got other explanation: Edward might not really care about breaking the law, BUT he might imply that illegal device might be not safe to use because people building illegal devices often doesn't understand concepts of safety.

Of course, the device being build by Williams parents might not provide any guarantees it's safety features are matching standard safety laws either ...

[Scotty 1,061]

3 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

Why would Will mention legal entanglements that wouldn't apply to the current situation?  That's what gave me the idea that Uryouom law might extend to Uryouoms on other worlds such as Earth.

Edward asked if the TFG that Will had was illegal, Will explained it wasn't illegal for him to own it because they have grandfather clauses on their planet as well which prevented persecution of those who had already owned such devices prior to the laws, similar to the Federal Assault Weapons Ban that was passed in 1994 and was still in effect at the time of Tam et Tedd which makes me wonder if Dan intentionally referenced the ban or not, I dunno.

Still the fact that William specifically mentions the parent planet in reference to sale of the device, I assumed that use of the device on the parent planet is restricted as well, but Earth being outside of Uryuom jurisdiction would make it easier for William to get help in using the device. Of course there still needs to be secrecy because of national security concerns, but it's still quite possible that DGB knows about the whole thing and made it Edward's responsibility to ensure there are no issues.

[hkmaly 490]

12 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Of course there still needs to be secrecy because of national security concerns, but it's still quite possible that DGB knows about the whole thing and made it Edward's responsibility to ensure there are no issues.

Yes, no problem ; At that point, Edward was still director of paranormal. So, when a member of DGB (Edward) is informed about some potential problem for national security, he must inform the director (Edward) so the director may decide what to do. Obviously, both the mentioned member and the director needs to write some report about it, which Edward certainly did.

[Scotty 1,061]

7 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Yes, no problem ; At that point, Edward was still director of paranormal. So, when a member of DGB (Edward) is informed about some potential problem for national security, he must inform the director (Edward) so the director may decide what to do. Obviously, both the mentioned member and the director needs to write some report about it, which Edward certainly did.

Edward would have likely had to tell Assistant Director Liefeld who is Edward's boss,

[Pharaoh RutinTutin 1,586]

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

the director needs to write some report about it

Can Edward's 'Summon Charts" spell also summon reports?

That would be so useful in my job.