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Story Monday June 26, 2017

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51 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

Horndog or not, Adrian can't be Tedd's father because Noriko told Adrian that Edward was Tedd's father. That doesn't rule out an affair between them that resulted in a sibling or siblings for Tedd, but Tedd is still Edward's son in every sense of the word.

Again, she, he, and everyone else thought he was sterile.

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10 minutes ago, WR...S said:

Again, she, he, and everyone else thought he was sterile.

We don't know, as in can be used in court level know, that elves aren't sterile yet.  The Dan could be putting us next to the beer, you know, behind the red herrings.

Not likely, but still possible.

 

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9 hours ago, hkmaly said:

It makes sense she did "background check" on all his friends. In fact, she might be the one who will just plainly tell what is the relationship between Susan and Diane.

Jerry sensed a connection between Susan and Diane, something that made him assume they were sisters, he couldn't explain how or even confirm whether it was true, but there was something and he seemed determined to figure out what it was for the sake of his vow to Susan (and being able to par-tay sooner). Pandora admitted to Sarah that the evidence was in front of her, even if she didn't specifically tell Sarah who she was talking about, it'd be easy to assume that Pandora sensed the same thing about Susan and Diane that Jerry did, but had chosen to ignore it because of the lie a previous incarnation of herself passed along. And Pandora must have encountered Diane a number of times while watching over Adrian at MSHS. Adrian and Diane had at least 1 run in that we saw, and likely more throughout the past few years. Pandora might not have needed to see both Diane and Susan to sense a connection, but Diane and Adrian could have sent up flags that there was something and Pandora would be like "nah that's not possible"

8 hours ago, WR...S said:

All indications are that having been alive since medieval times hasn't made Pandora some mental superbeing, it's made her senile.

I wouldn't call her senile, her mind is pretty clear, especially right now. Her behaviour in the past was certainly due to her age and the boredom that it brings, but aside from the lie that one of her previous incarnations passed along, the fact that she didn't remember the magic change and all that could be due to her having chosen not to analyze and predict the outcomes of her actions so that she could be surprised by them. If you think about it, she was getting bored of things when she was 150 years old. Then she met Blaike who informed her that not knowing what was ahead was part of the adventure. Pandora took that to heart and restricted herself to accompany him and experience things as he would. I would say that her continuing to restrict herself from predicting outcomes of the things she does was something she chose in order honor Blaike, but the circumstances of Blaike's death made her chose other things as well like trying to keep Adrian safe, revenge on those that killed Blaike, a bunch of other things that stacked on each other. That's not a sign of senility because that could happen to anyone, people make choices with good intentions, but following through with those choices may lead to doing some unsavory acts and some people claim the ends justify the means, or they just don't even realize that what they're doing is actually hurting the people they're trying to help. I'd say Pandora got stuck in that trap and it was Adrian's reminder of Blaike that snapped Pandora's focus back to what matters.

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Two questions:

Who is "Heka", and when did the "Elves are sterile" bit get debunked in any official means?

EDIT: I remember who Heka is now. 

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31 minutes ago, Matoyak said:

Two questions:

Who is "Heka", and when did the "Elves are sterile" bit get debunked in any official means?

It didn't. It is an overly eagerly leapt to assumption that was made back when Heka revealed that the children of Immortals in fact are allowed to use the Extravagant Spellbreaker card in Magical Gatherings tournament play.

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1 hour ago, Matoyak said:

Who is "Heka"?

The Egyptian god of magic who summons excellent scones for tea (Possibly a legacy of the long British occupation of Egypt.)

1 hour ago, Matoyak said:

When did the "Elves are sterile" bit get debunked in any official means?

It hasn't been officially debunked, quite. However, something Heka almost finished telling to Pandora strongly suggests that Fairies have lots of descendants. (Heka calls Pandora a "Fairy" because the former Fairies calling themselves "Immortals" now implies that they are the only Immortals, leaving out other immortal beings, such as Heka.) It certainly impiies that Tedd, a seer, and Edward and all other human wizards are descended from at least one Fairy/Immortal, which also means that they must have at least one elf ancestor.

Adrian told Grace back during Death Sentence that "Half-Immortals cannot have children." But he didn't explain why Grace saw an image of Susan staring back at her from the mirror she'd just used in the previous panel. And Adrian's statement might not be true. He could have been lying (for a good reason, of course) or he might have believed he was telling the truth but was wrong. And since this comic is now over five years old, it is possible that Dan has decided on a different truth than was true when he made that comic.

As I mentioned awhile ago, the next time we see Pandora is when she appears in Susan's bedroom where Jerry is puzzling over the relationship (or lack of it) between Susan and Diane. This kind of implies that whatever Heka said to Pandora suggested that Susan was suddenly important to her, even though Pandora had never been shown with or mentioned Susan in the ten-plus years since her introduction in Hidden Genesis. 

And on the next visit Pandora pays to EGS, she tells Sarah that she told a lie to her son something that wasn't true and ends the comic with the now-notorious statement "Of course they were his!"

Now, none of this is absolute proof that half-immortals like Adrian can have children, but if Dan decides that they can't after all this, it proves that Dan is a big doofus.

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Dan has stated that he foreshadows everything that's important to the story, whether a random character appearing is actually someone in disguise or there's some major reveal, he'll leave clues about it, even red herrings are explained at some point.

Dan also stated that something that will be revealed in this arc was foreshadowed back in 2007, which can be one of two things, something to do with Magus and if Pandora was responsible for him being stuck. or it's "The Woman with Susan's Face". One possibility for the Woman with Susan's face is that the woman was Pandora, a hint at that would be the strands of hair that hang in front of the woman's ears, Pandora's child, teen, young adult and adult forms hall have those strands of hair. Now Grace also has those strands so it might just mean Dan likes that style, but if that's a hint that the woman was Pandora, and Mr Pompoms is Adrian's great grandson*, then Pandora might have unknowingly had an affair with her great great grandson, which wouldn't be unheard of, it does happen, it happened in my family, almost twice actually. The first case was a an ancestor had a couple kids one of which moved out of the area and started a family, their children's children then moved back to the area and one of which met and married the great grand daughter of the kid that stayed without either of them knowing about their relation to each other until later when they had kids of their own.

The "almost" incident was with my brother who was at a bar one night and got chatting with a girl, they were hitting it off, flirting and such until she asked him where he was from. He told her and she was "Oh I have family there" and since my brother already knew about our aunt and uncle being distant cousins on my Grandfather's side, he had a feeling as to where this was going. He asked her who her family was and sure enough her great grandmother was our grandmother's mother. So my brother just straight up said "we're related" and that basically ended the night. Later that year we had our family reunion for that side of the family and she showed up, her and my brother completely avoided each other, it was super awkward.

*I'm using great grandson just and an example, since we have no clue as to what kind of relation there is. Don't think this as me asserting information that doesn't exist.

 

On second though, maybe Pandora wasn't having an actual affair with Mr Pompoms, if she had seen him being unfaithful to his wife, Pandora could have felt the need to expose it by setting Mr Pompoms up to be caught? Again this would all be without knowing her relation to them, it might have just been a spur of the moment "This guy is married and playing with other females, he should be taught a lesson." because Pandora might have been bored at the time.

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36 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I call them "sidelocks" and they're quite common in anime. They aren't shown on many other characters in EGS besides Pandora and Grace. Both faces in the mirrors (Susan's and then Grace's) have sidelocks. I think that leaves only one other character: Akiko, who has very long sidelocks.

Pandora as Susan's and Diane's biological mother is an interesting idea, and I've considered it, but I think there may be even more difficulties with it this theory with Adrian being their father, including: 

  1. Why would Pandora give up her daughters when she's proved she'll do anything for the sake of her son?
  2. Why haven't we had any hint that Pandora even knew Susan existed until she showed up in Susan's room?
  3. Why would Pandora cheat with a married man? The only man we know she ever had sex with was Blaike. Pandora's standards are pretty strange, but she does have standards.

Now there is a way Pandora could have gotten around at least two of these problems. Being a shapechanger, Susan's mom could have been Pandora taking another form. For that matter, she could also be Diane's mom in still another form. And we may have two examples of Pandora being in two places at once--actually four--here and here. Pandora could have been living in Moperville all along, raising both Susan and Diane and, of course, disguising their pointed elfin ears, and also keeping a more distant eye on Adrian. Kind of brings a new appreciation of parent-teacher conferences at Moperville South, doesn't it?

Or we could bring in the Alien Space Bats.

Having Pandora morph into Susan's mom, and vice-versa, would be an interesting sequence, in canon or not.

Edited by Tom Sewell
Added two more reference links.

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One hundred seven years ago, Voltaire's son with a mortal mother was born.  This boy showed no magical aptitude.  Soon Voltaire got bored of those two and left.  Voltaire's son later sired two daughters.  One became the mother of Edward Verres.  The other became the mother of Mr Pompoms.

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4 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

One hundred seven years ago, Voltaire's son with a mortal mother was born.  This boy showed no magical aptitude.  Soon Voltaire got bored of those two and left.  Voltaire's son later sired two daughters.  One became the mother of Edward Verres.  The other became the mother of Mr Pompoms.

If you're serious about this theory, Voltaire is sure a crappy great-granddad. Also, if Mrs. Pompoms is so wealthy, how come Mr. Verres has such modest means?

On the other hand, if Mrs. Pompoms is Edward's cousin, it might give him reason to be as upset as he is with the cheating cheater who cheated who married her.

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4 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

One hundred seven years ago, Voltaire's son with a mortal mother was born.  This boy showed no magical aptitude.  Soon Voltaire got bored of those two and left.  Voltaire's son later sired two daughters.  One became the mother of Edward Verres.  The other became the mother of Mr Pompoms.

I don't like this theory. It would mean Susan(and maybe Diane) is related to Voltaire, and that would be terrible, because Voltaire is a terrible individual that deserves to be punched in the face repeatedly (and maybe lit on fire if I let my pyromania do the talking, but fire is the answer to everything in that case)

I much prefer the theories and such that lead to Susan(and maybe Diane) are distantly related to Adrian and Pandora, because Adrian and Pandora are awesome people.

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29 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

if Mrs. Pompoms is so wealthy, how come Mr. Verres has such modest means?

I never said that Edward and the cheater's mothers were raised as sisters or knew they were related to each other

(of course, we all know that we are all related to each other because a time traveling Captain Kirk impregnated so many women in so many eras that every human has him as an ancestor multiple times)

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13 hours ago, WR...S said:
15 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Also, from meta perspective, I expect Raven will end up advising main eight. IF he would be sleeping with Noriko while she was still married with Edward, noone would forgive him.

Really?  Grace was willing to forgive Damien; everyone forgave his minions.  You think they can't forgive a tryst that ran its course in their infancy?

Elliot did NOT forgive Damien.

12 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

May I suggest another possibility for Susan's origin: She's a changeling. Mrs. Pompoms had a stillbirth, but she was under full anesthetic, and Susan was substituted. Difficult to set up, but it would explain why no one, not Susan and not even her mom knows.

Funny that she IS technically fairy child as well. But I find the option that Mrs. Pompoms knows more interesting. (Although yes, stillbirth might be better alternative than infertility.)

12 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

I really don't understand how Susan can be ruled out as Adrian's child when Pandora went to see her right after her visit with Heka and after Pandora had never been shown with her or even knowing about her in the over fifteen years of plot development before that. And if Pandora didn't know about Diane at that point, we can be sure she now knows everything Jerry knows about Diane. The simplest explanation is that Pandora believed the lie she'd told herself about Adrian never being able to father children up until Heka told her whatever he told her.

Obviously, IF that was Pandora.

9 hours ago, Scotty said:
18 hours ago, hkmaly said:

It makes sense she did "background check" on all his friends. In fact, she might be the one who will just plainly tell what is the relationship between Susan and Diane.

Jerry sensed a connection between Susan and Diane, something that made him assume they were sisters, he couldn't explain how or even confirm whether it was true, but there was something and he seemed determined to figure out what it was for the sake of his vow to Susan (and being able to par-tay sooner). Pandora admitted to Sarah that the evidence was in front of her, even if she didn't specifically tell Sarah who she was talking about, it'd be easy to assume that Pandora sensed the same thing about Susan and Diane that Jerry did, but had chosen to ignore it because of the lie a previous incarnation of herself passed along. And Pandora must have encountered Diane a number of times while watching over Adrian at MSHS. Adrian and Diane had at least 1 run in that we saw, and likely more throughout the past few years. Pandora might not have needed to see both Diane and Susan to sense a connection, but Diane and Adrian could have sent up flags that there was something and Pandora would be like "nah that's not possible"

Yes.

9 hours ago, Scotty said:

the fact that she didn't remember the magic change and all that

The fact that she didn't remembered the magic change was due to her reading it in journal more than four centuries ago. Easy to forget some detail like this.

3 hours ago, Scotty said:

One possibility for the Woman with Susan's face is that the woman was Pandora, a hint at that would be the strands of hair that hang in front of the woman's ears, Pandora's child, teen, young adult and adult forms hall have those strands of hair.

Note that this may also be explained by the Woman with Susan's face being Pandora's descendant. I mean, sidelocks are technically not hereditary, but they might've been used as foreshadowing.

3 hours ago, Scotty said:

So my brother just straight up said "we're related" and that basically ended the night. Later that year we had our family reunion for that side of the family and she showed up, her and my brother completely avoided each other, it was super awkward.

Hey, all humans are already related. Unless the relationship was close it was no reason to terminate the night. Although I can imagine it started to be awkward.

3 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Now there is a way Pandora could have gotten around at least two of these problems. Being a shapechanger, Susan's mom could have been Pandora taking another form. For that matter, she could also be Diane's mom in still another form. And we may have two examples of Pandora being in two places at once--actually four--here and here. Pandora could have been living in Moperville all along, raising both Susan and Diane and, of course, disguising their pointed elfin ears, and also keeping a more distant eye on Adrian. Kind of brings a new appreciation of parent-teacher conferences at Moperville South, doesn't it?

... i think this is the "this new character must be someone we know" taken to extreme. Also, cheating with own husband and then throwing fit about it is interesting way how to force divorce.

1 hour ago, Drasvin said:

because Voltaire is a terrible individual that deserves to be punched in the face repeatedly (and maybe lit on fire if I let my pyromania do the talking, but fire is the answer to everything in that case)

No matter what your pyromania and Jaya Ballard are saying, in THIS case, only good way how to handle Voltaire is to let Pandora at him. She has motivation, power AND knowledge how to hurt him, while you punching him could allow him to kill you in self-defense.

 

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45 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

No matter what your pyromania and Jaya Ballard are saying, in THIS case, only good way how to handle Voltaire is to let Pandora at him. She has motivation, power AND knowledge how to hurt him, while you punching him could allow him to kill you in self-defense.

True. And to be honest, I never said I would be the one punching him in the face. It would be much better for a powerful individual like Pandora or Tara to punch him in the face. Watching him burn would be fun though.

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2 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

 

2 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

if Mrs. Pompoms is so wealthy, how come Mr. Verres has such modest means?

I never said that Edward and the cheater's mothers were raised as sisters or knew they were related to each other

(of course, we all know that we are all related to each other because a time traveling Captain Kirk impregnated so many women in so many eras that every human has him as an ancestor multiple times)

And not only on Earth, of course. There's a scene in one of the recent Star Trek movies where Kirk is in bed with two women at once, and if you look carefully, one of them has a barbed tail.

51 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

think this is the "this new character must be someone we know" taken to extreme. Also, cheating with own husband and then throwing fit about it is interesting way how to force divorce.

Yes, it is. Hence my alternative suggestion to bring in the Alien Space Bats. I think Dan has put so much apparently contradictory foreshadowing in that no matter what he settles on as the canon explanation, some of us are going to call him on it.

On to my next amazing crackpot plot theory: Tedd's second purpose is to choose the new rules for magic. I mean, who would be more qualified than the best seer? If the new rules not only apply to humans but to everyone, Tedd could do some amazing things, perhaps not even consciously. These might include:

  • Shutting down the vampires by taking away their powers--including the power that keeps them alive.
  • Changing or even deleting Immortal powers on the plane humans of the Moperverse live
  • Marking or even Awakening Grace, something he must wish he could do.
  • Giving hammers back to all women. I don't have a reference link for this yet, but I'm pretty sure Tedd put it on his to-do list some time after Hammerchlorians.

Anyway, having Tedd shut down the big battle and settling Voltaire's hash by the end of the arc seems like an appropriate and satisfying plot twist.

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33 minutes ago, Drasvin said:

True. And to be honest, I never said I would be the one punching him in the face. It would be much better for a powerful individual like Pandora or Tara to punch him in the face. Watching him burn would be fun though.

Watching whatever Pandora decides to do would be certainly fun as well.

7 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

And not only on Earth, of course. There's a scene in one of the recent Star Trek movies where Kirk is in bed with two women at once, and if you look carefully, one of them has a barbed tail.

There is some episode when some bald guy is trying to take blame, but we all know it was actually Kirk.

10 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

On to my next amazing crackpot plot theory: Tedd's second purpose is to choose the new rules for magic. I mean, who would be more qualified than the best seer?

I don't think choose but influence may not be so crackpot.

11 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

If the new rules not only apply to humans but to everyone,

They don't apply for everyone - for example, full Uryuom and griffins are excluded. However, they may still apply to all you mentioned - vampires are former humans, the limits may be how immortals are allowed to interact with humans and Grace is quarter human which should be enough to awaken her.

The hammers, however, sounds like most likely option. Considering Tedd didn't get the memo that they were supposed to ENCOURAGE inappropriate comments ...

 

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19 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

As I mentioned awhile ago, the next time we see Pandora is when she appears in Susan's bedroom where Jerry is puzzling over the relationship (or lack of it) between Susan and Diane. This kind of implies that whatever Heka said to Pandora suggested that Susan was suddenly important to her, even though Pandora had never been shown with or mentioned Susan in the ten-plus years since her introduction in Hidden Genesis. 

 

Wait, are you saying these folks are Pandora? I may have missed something, but I was unaware we'd been told who that was. Assumed it was the two "French" immortals showing up.

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1 hour ago, Matoyak said:

Wait, are you saying these folks are Pandora? I may have missed something, but I was unaware we'd been told who that was. Assumed it was the two "French" immortals showing up.

Pandora is the only Immortal who has ever been shown in an amorphous, multi-faced form. This is the "Chaos" form, and the last time it was shown before the scene in Susan's bedroom was when Pandora was considering what she wanted Sarah to call her. So, no, I wasn't saying that thing was Demetrius and Helen.

Could it have been another Immortal in Susan's bedroom? Well, Dan can make it so, but he's invested a lot into making that creepy avatar exclusive to Pandora. Voltaire framed Pandora for Dex with the Pithos pendant, but he's never appeared in any other form than the bearded Man in White. It seems to be a matter of ego with him, he wants to be recognized so he can show how very, very clever he is. Another reason is that as far as we know Voltaire doesn't know anything about Susan. Susan wasn't in either of the fights with Elliot Voltaire set up. There's a plot theory floating around that Susan and Diane are descendants of Voltaire, but I very much doubt Dan will go with that.

Edited by Tom Sewell
Changed "Pyxis" into "Pithos"; added reference link.

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1 hour ago, Matoyak said:

Wait, are you saying these folks are Pandora? I may have missed something, but I was unaware we'd been told who that was. Assumed it was the two "French" immortals showing up.

The figures that grabbed Jerry 2.0 certainly suggest Pandora since she had very similarly appeared before Magus.

My theory is that Heka revealed that Elves can in fact have children, Pandora, having already sensed something odd about Susan and Diane before (though we never see it) goes to Susan's house to confirm it, she finds Jerry 2.0 there but doesn't know why and assumes he's meddling and confronts him. He tells her about his previous self's vow to Susan and Nanase to convince Pandora that he isn't there to harm Susan and also tells her about his intuition saying there's some sort of connection between Susan and Diane that strongly suggests them being related in some way that made him assume they were sisters. Pandora probably does some more memory recall to times when Adrian was with a woman, and realized that Susan and Diane are in some way related to Adrian, thus he sudden change of attitude and breakdown in front of Sarah.

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10 hours ago, Matoyak said:

Wait, are you saying these folks are Pandora? I may have missed something, but I was unaware we'd been told who that was. Assumed it was the two "French" immortals showing up.

9 hours ago, Scotty said:

The figures that grabbed Jerry 2.0 certainly suggest Pandora since she had very similarly appeared before Magus.

My theory is that Heka revealed that Elves can in fact have children, Pandora, having already sensed something odd about Susan and Diane before (though we never see it) goes to Susan's house to confirm it, she finds Jerry 2.0 there but doesn't know why and assumes he's meddling and confronts him. He tells her about his previous self's vow to Susan and Nanase to convince Pandora that he isn't there to harm Susan and also tells her about his intuition saying there's some sort of connection between Susan and Diane that strongly suggests them being related in some way that made him assume they were sisters. Pandora probably does some more memory recall to times when Adrian was with a woman, and realized that Susan and Diane are in some way related to Adrian, thus he sudden change of attitude and breakdown in front of Sarah.

I agree that it seems likely and that alternative would be someone who we don't know. Just, we shouldn't consider it confirmed yet.

Note that "some more memory recall" is not really needed - like, WE may get flashback when we finally get to it, but it's NORMAL memory for Pandora, not something from her previous incarnation. She would also likely FIRST get this memory, THEN went to Susan for confirmation, but yes, with Jerry sort-of confirming it and with good look at her (her aura or whatever) Pandora realizes it must be true and therefore the breakdown.

 

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