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ProfessorTomoe

Story: Monday, July 3rd, 2017

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1 minute ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Specifically, I called him a "Larval Immortal".

Maybe so, but at present I think Susan and Nanase are better candidates for that. Plus I kind of think it's a rule of the Will of Magic that the chosen Seer must be a mortal. Giving that kind of power to an Immortal doesn't seem like a good idea to me. Think term limits.

 

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15 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

I was among those who suggested that Tedd could be an immortal a long time ago.

Thanks. We have first. Now, was there anyone else?

15 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:
30 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Joan of Arc comes into mind

Jeanne d'Arc heard voices, or said she did. Now, schizophrenia comes to mind (I've dated three schizophrenics), but the only Immortal we've seen do that is Voltaire, and he needed an amulet to do it.

He needed the amulet to channel power into him. It wasn't ruled out immortals CAN speak to humans invisible - just, presumably, most humans would conclude they went crazy so it may not be most effective.

(Also, I think with just little more evading and little ventriloquism this could end up being described as "hearing voices")

8 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

Plus I kind of think it's a rule of the Will of Magic that the chosen Seer must be a mortal. Giving that kind of power to an Immortal doesn't seem like a good idea to me. Think term limits.

I think the second purpose of seer has integrated time limit of it's own - and the first purpose is not THAT much OP.

Also, Seers are not chosen, they are born that way.

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15 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Reasoning?  Immortal magic can not be detected.  Edward's scary magic detector wand does not detect magic in Tedd.  Tedd does have magic, just not the usual spells.

Specifically, I called him a "Larval Immortal".

That's why I countered with the idea that Tedd, and other Seers, can tap into magic the same or similar way that Immortals can. He's still mortal, but in terms of raw magic potential, he's up there with Immortals.

Heka stated that while Seers are very rare, Tedd's not unique. While we have no way of knowing just how many Seers there are in the world, Heka's statement confirms that there are others alive in the world. I don't think Seers go through standard awa....actually, I don't think I can with certainty say that Seers don't need to awaken like other wizards do. Tedd may have very well gone through an angst induced awakening years ago if his near mute phase is any indication. So it's quite possible that other Seers exist, but they don't know they are Seers.

My original thought was going to be, if Seers didn't need to go through an awakening process, then there's a chance that, over the course of hundreds of years, there must have been a fair number of Seers born. Even if most didn't realize their full potential, a small number must have, and if they eventually became Immortals, Pandora should have noticed. That thought is flawed because the lack of knowledge from both Pandora and most mortals like Edward and Noriko about Seers. Voltaire knows about seers though which makes me wonder how he knows, and now I'm wondering if Arthur knows that Tedd is a Seer, Tedd met Arthur when he was younger, presumably when Arthur was Edward's boss.

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44 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Also, Seers are not chosen, they are born that way.

Seers are born, but I think only one is chosen in the end for that secret second purpose. Otherwise why would Heka have used the word "eligible"? Eligibility implies a selection process.

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1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:
2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Also, Seers are not chosen, they are born that way.

Seers are born, but I think only one is chosen in the end for that secret second purpose. Otherwise why would Heka have used the word "eligible"? Eligibility implies a selection process.

Oh yes that is possible.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Heka stated that while Seers are very rare, Tedd's not unique. While we have no way of knowing just how many Seers there are in the world, Heka's statement confirms that there are others alive in the world. I don't think Seers go through standard awa....actually, I don't think I can with certainty say that Seers don't need to awaken like other wizards do. Tedd may have very well gone through an angst induced awakening years ago if his near mute phase is any indication. So it's quite possible that other Seers exist, but they don't know they are Seers.

Looks like awakening to me, although he was already using his abilities before that, so I'm giving this a definite maybe. Or maybe Seers go through MULTIPLE awakenings?

In any case, wizards in general may never realize they are wizards if they never see any spell they could learn.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

My original thought was going to be, if Seers didn't need to go through an awakening process, then there's a chance that, over the course of hundreds of years, there must have been a fair number of Seers born. Even if most didn't realize their full potential, a small number must have, and if they eventually became Immortals, Pandora should have noticed. That thought is flawed because the lack of knowledge from both Pandora and most mortals like Edward and Noriko about Seers. Voltaire knows about seers though which makes me wonder how he knows, and now I'm wondering if Arthur knows that Tedd is a Seer, Tedd met Arthur when he was younger, presumably when Arthur was Edward's boss.

Most seers likely never realize any more potential than being wand maker. Judging by Tedd, it is possible to do all sort of magic and not realizing it, so similarly even if seers are better than other wand makers in wand making, they may not realize they are different and assume they are just little more experienced or talented.

Voltaire likely knows about seers because his previous incarnation was smarter in what to note than Pandora's.

And Arthur might be aware something like Seer exists, but I don't think he knows Tedd is one specifically - if he would, he would likely act on it already, OR not expect Moperville ceases to be paranormal tourist magnet after reset. There may be someone on DGB who suspects Tedd is wand maker, based on them not being able to repeat some of his research and realizing what he is actually doing, but the "Seer" knowledge seems very obscure.

 

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5 hours ago, hkmaly said:

n any case, wizards in general may never realize they are wizards if they never see any spell they could learn.

I don't think that's the case. Seers are a rare type of wizard who don't get any spells. That implies that the not-rare wizards do get spells like other magic users, and it would also explain why Noriko and maybe Edward as well have never recognized the nature of Tedd's magic. Maybe Adrian as well. Or maybe not. If he did know that Tedd was a Seer, he could have told Noriko when Tedd was a baby. If he knew and didn't tell, he'd feel like an asshole--which he does concerning the breakup of Tedd's family.

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19 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

And until we see Tedd die, I will continue to contend that Tedd might be immortal.

Well, he is closely related to Nanase and the griffins were convinced she was royalty, so Tedd might indeed have inside him the blood of kings.

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13 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

I don't think that's the case. Seers are a rare type of wizard who don't get any spells.

Wait. Who said that (and where)? While it was implied, I can't find it ...

13 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

That implies that the not-rare wizards do get spells like other magic users, and it would also explain why Noriko and maybe Edward as well have never recognized the nature of Tedd's magic. Maybe Adrian as well. Or maybe not. If he did know that Tedd was a Seer, he could have told Noriko when Tedd was a baby. If he knew and didn't tell, he'd feel like an asshole--which he does concerning the breakup of Tedd's family.

Noriko and Edward likely didn't had anything better than the magic analysis wand, which seems to not detect seers at all.

And again, I don't think Adrian would be be such asshole - generally, based on what he talks about, seems the thing he's blaming himself of is to teach Noriko (and possibly Edward) incorrectly, not withholding information from them (or cheating with Noriko).

Meaning, whatever it is which makes seers harder to detect, Adrian seems also affected. It's weird Luke isn't.

2 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

Well, he is closely related to Nanase and the griffins were convinced she was royalty, so Tedd might indeed have inside him the blood of kings.

I consider it more likely than Nanase actually being closely related to any current monarch. Her relation with royalty is probably either too remote, or she's related to royal line which was kicked out of throne by someone else - but both cases leaves her with blood of kings.

 

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1 minute ago, hkmaly said:

I consider it more likely than Nanase actually being closely related to any current monarch. Her relation with royalty is probably either too remote, or she's related to royal line which was kicked out of throne by someone else - but both cases leaves her with blood of kings.

But she isn't the one, the only one, nor is she the God of Kingdom come, so she gets no Prize. *sigh*

No, she gets no Prize.

*massive guitar riff*

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2 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Meaning, whatever it is which makes seers harder to detect, Adrian seems also affected. It's weird Luke isn't.

Luke doesn't seem to be a capital-S Seer. All he can really detect so far is magical auras, and he can't tell much more than that some auras look similar to other auras. Tedd can actually see magic as it does its thing and analyze it well enough to make wands that reproduce and even modify spells.

 

7 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Wait. Who said that (and where)? While it was implied, I can't find it ...

The Emissary of Magic told Pandora about the rare wizards. Heka told Pandora that the rare wizards were Seers, and that Tedd was a Seer. We already knew Tedd was a Seer from something Voltaire said when he was talking to himself.

And from another one of Voltaire's conversations with himself, we know that Tedd's role as a Seer is critical to whatever amazing crackpot master plan Voltaire has to finally make them all listen to his flawless advice. Or at least Voltaire thinks so, so he must believe that Tedd will likely be the special Seer with that so-so-secret second purpose, unless something happens to make him ineligible.

 

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25 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:
1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Meaning, whatever it is which makes seers harder to detect, Adrian seems also affected. It's weird Luke isn't.

Luke doesn't seem to be a capital-S Seer. All he can really detect so far is magical auras, and he can't tell much more than that some auras look similar to other auras. Tedd can actually see magic as it does its thing and analyze it well enough to make wands that reproduce and even modify spells.

You misunderstood. I was wondering why Luke was able to detect Tedd as obviously not non-magic while others weren't (meaning Luke saw more than Adrian). Of course he isn't seer.

Unless, of course, Tedd's talent is even harder to detect before it's activated. Adrian likely didn't saw Tedd for years.

... or is that ONLY hard to detect before activation? I don't think they re-tested Tedd recently ...

25 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:
1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Wait. Who said that (and where)? While it was implied, I can't find it ...

The Emissary of Magic told Pandora about the rare wizards. Heka told Pandora that the rare wizards were Seers, and that Tedd was a Seer. We already knew Tedd was a Seer from something Voltaire said when he was talking to himself.

And from another one of Voltaire's conversations with himself, we know that Tedd's role as a Seer is critical to whatever amazing crackpot master plan Voltaire has to finally make them all listen to his flawless advice. Or at least Voltaire thinks so, so he must believe that Tedd will likely be the special Seer with that so-so-secret second purpose, unless something happens to make him ineligible.

I looked at all of those. Nowhere I can find that other wizards can have own spells. Sure it's nitpicking, but give the "own spells" is being so important plot point and the solution seems to be those are not his own spells ...

In fact, the Dream Wizards "... wouldn't be affected, but only because they don't get spells in the first ..." is suspicious because the same reason should make normal wizards not affected as well - or, like, partially affected because just their own spells will be affected, not the learned ones.

So, no, it can't be "only because of" that.

 

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29 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

You misunderstood. I was wondering why Luke was able to detect Tedd as obviously not non-magic

Where did you get that idea? Luke was blinded by Tedd's aura, meaning Tedd had to have much more magical power than anyone Luke had seen before. 

Going back to the Emissary, he said there was a rare type of wizards that wouldn't be affected by the change only because they didn't get spells in the first (place.)  And that they were the only human magic users who wouldn't be affected. Any old-style spells would no longer work, including the spells wizards learned from other magic users.

So, if a Seer is supposed to restore magic use by learning spells by observation, exactly who is he (or she) going to observe?

Obviously not by observing human magic users, because no humans would be left with any working spells. Could Tedd learn and adapt spells from non-humans? Immortals? Maybe. But given the way Tedd's character has been constructed, perhaps its more likely that he would rebuild human magic spell-by-spell, in effect creating the new rules of human magic. 

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8 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Oh.  Darn, didn't realize it was an app, not a web page.

There is a web version for it, sorry, I assumed you had used Discord before.

https://discordapp.com/

just click the "open discord" button to use the web version. create an account, then click the circle with the plus sign on the left, click join server and then you can paste the link I gave into the field to join.

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

I consider it more likely than Nanase actually being closely related to any current monarch. Her relation with royalty is probably either too remote, or she's related to royal line which was kicked out of throne by someone else - but both cases leaves her with blood of kings.

It's also possible that her family was never actually royalty. Tara sensed such power in Nanase that she could only describe as royal because that's likely how royalty was on her half of the world.

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12 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I assumed you had used Discord before.

Many of us Erisians are wary of using Discord for our own purposes.

HAIL ERIS!  ALL HAIL DISCORDIA!
HAIL ERIS!  ALL HAIL DISCORDIA!
HAIL ERIS!  ALL HAIL DISCORDIA!
HAIL ERIS!  ALL HAIL DISCORDIA!
HAIL ERIS!  ALL HAIL DISCORDIA!

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59 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:
1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

You misunderstood. I was wondering why Luke was able to detect Tedd as obviously not non-magic

Where did you get that idea? Luke was blinded by Tedd's aura, meaning Tedd had to have much more magical power than anyone Luke had seen before. 

Exactly. If Adrian would be blinded by Tedd's aura, he would say something. (Possily "ouch, turn that off, it hurts!" :))

Machine might show zero for something outside it's operation parameters, but human (or half-human) wouldn't.

The idea that Tedd was NOT shining so bright when young seems more and more attractive to me.

1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:

Going back to the Emissary, he said there was a rare type of wizards that wouldn't be affected by the change only because they didn't get spells in the first (place.)  And that they were the only human magic users who wouldn't be affected. Any old-style spells would no longer work, including the spells wizards learned from other magic users.

And I already responded that the second part of his statement seems to not make sense (but only because ...) if what Tedd is doing still counts as spells, even not his own.

1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:

So, if a Seer is supposed to restore magic use by learning spells by observation, exactly who is he (or she) going to observe?

Obviously not by observing human magic users, because no humans would be left with any working spells. Could Tedd learn and adapt spells from non-humans? Immortals? Maybe. But given the way Tedd's character has been constructed, perhaps its more likely that he would rebuild human magic spell-by-spell, in effect creating the new rules of human magic. 

Seer can not only observe spells but also understand it. It's possible Tedd is going to observe essentially random magic actions of previous magic users and helps them to find order in it again, then teach resulting spells to others.

IF there is any "creating the new rules", it would be the second purpose. And maybe that's why he needs to not know about it - it would only work if he THINKS he's just finding out existing rules but he's actually making them subconsciously ...

It would match all the other cases of Tedd thinking something he's doing is more normal than it is.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

It's also possible that her family was never actually royalty. Tara sensed such power in Nanase that she could only describe as royal because that's likely how royalty was on her half of the world.

I dismiss this possibility as boring. Also, I think that finding family who has no royal ancestors would be very hard. Unless her family records go thousands years into past proving that noone with her magic was royal ...

But, yes, the connection between royalty and magic is apparently stronger on the other half of the world.

48 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

HAIL ERIS!  ALL HAIL DISCORDIA!

... hmmm, this reminds me I didn't had Hot Dog for long time ...

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2 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Exactly. If Adrian would be blinded by Tedd's aura, he would say something. (Possily "ouch, turn that off, it hurts!" :))

Machine might show zero for something outside it's operation parameters, but human (or half-human) wouldn't.

The idea that Tedd was NOT shining so bright when young seems more and more attractive to me.

This actually raises a good question, if Luke could detect something different about Tedd, why couldn't the wand, or Adrian's ears?

Maybe it's a strictly visual detection whereas the wand and Adrian's ears are completely different forms of detection?

If Luke "looked" at Pandora, would he be nearly blinded as well?

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6 minutes ago, Scotty said:

This actually raises a good question, if Luke could detect something different about Tedd, why couldn't the wand, or Adrian's ears?

Yes, THAT was what I was talking about. If Adrian nor the wand can't detect anything about Tedd, why Luke can?

6 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Maybe it's a strictly visual detection whereas the wand and Adrian's ears are completely different forms of detection?

Doesn't make more sense than "just because".

My solution of "They actually could sense something different NOW, they just weren't before" makes more sense.

6 minutes ago, Scotty said:

If Luke "looked" at Pandora, would he be nearly blinded as well?

No he wasn't. I mean, with the way he was looking around, it's unlikely he never "hit" her. Unless she was deliberately avoiding his look. Or wait ... maybe he would be blinded only if he saw her ON PHYSICAL PLANE.

(Although yes, he also missed Sarah ...)

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6 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

No he wasn't. I mean, with the way he was looking around, it's unlikely he never "hit" her. Unless she was deliberately avoiding his look. Or wait ... maybe he would be blinded only if he saw her ON PHYSICAL PLANE.

That's what I mean, Luke would have to actually look at her on the physical plane.

7 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

(Although yes, he also missed Sarah ...)

He was about to check Sarah, but then he saw Tedd and Grace kissing. 100% certain Luke not checking Sarah was a clue that Sarah had been marked.

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1 minute ago, Scotty said:

This actually raises a good question, if Luke could detect something different about Tedd, why couldn't the wand, or Adrian's ears?

The only time we know of that Adrian was with Tedd and might have been in his true form (which he needs to be in use his ears to taste magic) was in that single flashback scene with Noriko when Tedd was so little he probably couldn't sit up yet.

Tedd's magic might have been totally dormant at that time. Maybe Adrian did get a taste of Tedd's magic afterward--and had some grasp of what it meant. I kind of like this alternative explanation of why Adrian is the reason Edward and Noriko will never get back together better than Adrian having an affair with Noriko. But I'm not betting any cookies on it.

Why was Luke able to detect Tedd's magic? Well, maybe it had something to do with being marked by Pandora, a ridiculously powerful Immortal. After all, Pandora did sort of warn Luke not to scan Tedd.

25 minutes ago, Scotty said:

He was about to check Sarah, but then he saw Tedd and Grace kissing. 100% certain Luke not checking Sarah was a clue that Sarah had been marked.

That page also confirms something I wasn't quite sure of earlier: Luke has not noticed yet that Tedd's hair isn't pink any more, and that Tedd was female for awhile. So without his mark, Luke is less observant than either Rich or Larry.

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46 minutes ago, Scotty said:

He was about to check Sarah, but then he saw Tedd and Grace kissing. 100% certain Luke not checking Sarah was a clue that Sarah had been marked.

When kissing, Sarah was too close to them to be checked separately. Then he though about aliens and forgot he wanted to check Sarah. And were you actually so good to realize Sarah was marked when he didn't checked her? Of course, when we found she's marked we remembered this ...

21 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

The only time we know of that Adrian was with Tedd and might have been in his true form (which he needs to be in use his ears to taste magic) was in that single flashback scene with Noriko when Tedd was so little he probably couldn't sit up yet.

He presumably was around Tedd more often at that time - remember, godfather. I don't believe he wasn't in true form at least once.

22 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

Tedd's magic might have been totally dormant at that time.

Yes, that's my theory as well.

23 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

Maybe Adrian did get a taste of Tedd's magic afterward--and had some grasp of what it meant. I kind of like this alternative explanation of why Adrian is the reason Edward and Noriko will never get back together better than Adrian having an affair with Noriko. But I'm not betting any cookies on it.

Maybe better than Adrian having affair with Noriko but that doesn't say much. I think it took years before Tedd's magic became visible - possibly it happened while experimenting with TF gun, or even later when experimenting with magic - and the breakup happened meanwhile and he didn't saw (nor tasted) Tedd since.

24 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:
54 minutes ago, Scotty said:

He was about to check Sarah, but then he saw Tedd and Grace kissing. 100% certain Luke not checking Sarah was a clue that Sarah had been marked.

That page also confirms something I wasn't quite sure of earlier: Luke has not noticed yet that Tedd's hair isn't pink any more, and that Tedd was female for awhile. So without his mark, Luke is less observant than either Rich or Larry.

It's not about him being less observant. Well, maybe with the hair, but Rich was much closer at the time Tedd was female.

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Also, I think that finding family who has no royal ancestors would be very hard. Unless her family records go thousands years into past proving that noone with her magic was royal ...

1. If you go through family records and name your great-grandparents, there's a better-than-even chance that you're mistaken about at least one of them. Going back a thousand years, it's a near certainty - assuming the necessary records even exist.

2. A thousand years ago is also about the time of another interesting characteristic: if any given person who was alive in Europe at that time has ANY living descendants, then ALMOST EVERYONE who considers themselves to be of European ancestry is descended from that person. That would include kings. All of them. (This is the problem with special powers being determined by line of descent from some particular person. A special family that consistently, over an extended period, does NOT expand either openly or illicitly, but also does NOT go extinct... simply doesn't happen among humans or most other species.)

----------------

As for how Luke spotted Tedd's magic aura and it being blindingly bright: at the time that said comment was current, the speculation on the forum was that he happened to look just at the moment Pandora was marking Tedd.

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5 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

It's not about him being less observant. Well, maybe with the hair, but Rich was much closer at the time Tedd was female.

A point you have. Like Justin, Luke is attracted to masculinity. So it is natural he would have initially paid less attention to Tedd, who looks pretty feminine all the time, before he god blinded, and would have avoided looking at Tedd afterward until the store had pretty much emptied out and he wasn't going to have an opportunity to check the blond chick or re-check Tedd. 

I wonder if we're ever going to see Grace use an MV5 form on Tedd? Or demonstrate such a form by morphing herself? Or Ellen blend Tedd with someone else, maybe Elliot? Maybe Nanase? Come on, Dan, don't tease us with the Ellen Demo!

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2 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:
2 hours ago, Scotty said:

I assumed you had used Discord before.

Many of us Erisians are wary of using Discord for our own purposes.

 

I would only use Discord to meet Fluttershy and the rest of the mane cast.

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14 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:

If you go through family records and name your great-grandparents, there's a better-than-even chance that you're mistaken about at least one of them. Going back a thousand years, it's a near certainty.

Yeah, already talked about that. Great-grandparents are last step I can do, after that I'm SURE to not know them.

14 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:

A thousand years ago is also about the time of another interesting characteristic: if any given person who was alive in Europe at that time has ANY living descendants, then ALMOST EVERYONE who considers themselves to be of European ancestry is descended from that person. That would include kings. All of them. (This is the problem with special powers being determined by line of descent from some particular person. A special family that consistently, over an extended period, does NOT expand either openly or illicitly, but also does NOT go extinct... simply doesn't happen among humans or most other species.)

Question is what is the breakpoint if you look at Japan. Japan is island, but their emperors are not that old (also, if we were literal we would need to only count literal kings) and blood of other kings might've been isolated from them ... (Nanase's family IS from Japan, right?)

Basically, while every human is related, the kings are relatively recent phenomena, so the question if first kings happened early enough to already spread to all humans is open. Europe, yes, we had lot of kings pretty early. Asia? Africa? America? Aztec empire is not that old ...

3 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

I wonder if we're ever going to see Grace use an MV5 form on Tedd? Or demonstrate such a form by morphing herself? Or Ellen blend Tedd with someone else, maybe Elliot? Maybe Nanase? Come on, Dan, don't tease us with the Ellen Demo!

Yeah ... truly manly Tedd would be good addition to the Ellen Demo storyline :)

Wait: What about blending Nanase's male form with Tedd?

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