np NP Wednesday July 5, 2017

[hkmaly 490]

http://www.egscomics.com/egsnp.php?id=638

Well, she WAS not aware of this on New Year Eve, but she could discover meantime - oh wait that was less than month ago. In that case it makes sense.

Shrinking is clear - she's already on limit. And I guess you can't get more blonde than blonde. Not sure why muscles, it could be used as example of how single beam muscles makes person stronger but double beam muscles don't make her more stronger, just looking worse. And heavier? Heavier Nanase isn't even as fat as George ...

[Scotty 1,061]

17 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Well, she WAS not aware of this on New Year Eve, but she could discover meantime - oh wait that was less than month ago. In that case it makes sense.

Even if she was aware of being able to use both hands to make her spells more difficult to resist, it still wouldn't have worked on Not_Tengu, so really the only effect it would have had would have been to make us speculate if she got a new spell that required both hands.

That said, it would seem that Not_Tengu had ridiculously high resistance to enchantment, was it the form that did it, or was he drawing on ambient energy to boost his resistance? He was able to draw on ambient energy to make himself bigger, stronger and faster, though it did burn through ambient energy at a pretty fast rate it seemed, but yeah, there probably are spells or enchantments that buff resistance to other enchantments.

[hkmaly 490]

23 minutes ago, Scotty said:

46 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Well, she WAS not aware of this on New Year Eve, but she could discover meantime - oh wait that was less than month ago. In that case it makes sense.

Even if she was aware of being able to use both hands to make her spells more difficult to resist, it still wouldn't have worked on Not_Tengu, so really the only effect it would have had would have been to make us speculate if she got a new spell that required both hands.

I think DAN didn't known about that option when drawing it. But yes it wouldn't change much. Dan could even SAY that using both hands make the spell harder to resist in commentary to keep most of us from speculating (not everyone reads the comments of course).

23 minutes ago, Scotty said:

That said, it would seem that Not_Tengu had ridiculously high resistance to enchantment, was it the form that did it, or was he drawing on ambient energy to boost his resistance? He was able to draw on ambient energy to make himself bigger, stronger and faster, though it did burn through ambient energy at a pretty fast rate it seemed, but yeah, there probably are spells or enchantments that buff resistance to other enchantments.

Personally I would guess that higher resistance IS sideefect of his form, on the other hand he WAS aware he will be fighting another magic user so he might've been prepared.

Note that while Noriko was able to get him, it wasn't easy as they though she might be ONLY person capable of getting him. And that was without ambient magic. He is not some just-get-magic-let-me-try-it person - he started like that but now he's experienced. So, high resistance makes sense.

BTW it was his spell resistance, not enchantment resistance.

[Scotty 1,061]

2 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

BTW it was his spell resistance, not enchantment resistance.

I'm pretty certain the difference between the two is that Spell resistance is the ability for a person to resist an attempt to enchant them, and enchantment resistance applies to being able to shrug off an enchantment after it's been applied. What I'm not completely certain of is if they are actually 2 separate types of resistances, or 1 type that works differently depending on the situation, like a spell has more power when it's cast so one would have to resist more to prevent them from being enchanted, but if they end up getting enchanted then they can still shorten the duration (unless it's permanent like changing a person's default form) by resisting it.

It's gotta be a matter of willpower "I will not be enchanted" and "I will not stay enchanted" kind of thing, different situations, but still the same method of resisting.

[hkmaly 490]

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

BTW it was his spell resistance, not enchantment resistance.

I'm pretty certain the difference between the two is that Spell resistance is the ability for a person to resist an attempt to enchant them, and enchantment resistance applies to being able to shrug off an enchantment after it's been applied. What I'm not completely certain of is if they are actually 2 separate types of resistances, or 1 type that works differently depending on the situation, like a spell has more power when it's cast so one would have to resist more to prevent them from being enchanted, but if they end up getting enchanted then they can still shorten the duration (unless it's permanent like changing a person's default form) by resisting it.

It's gotta be a matter of willpower "I will not be enchanted" and "I will not stay enchanted" kind of thing, different situations, but still the same method of resisting.

One obvious difference, as mentioned in that link, is that surprise impacts spell resistance but not enchantment resistance. Most likely, there are other modifiers which apply differently, but to rephrase the question, we don't know if "base" person spell resistance and enchantment resistance is always same, if they might differ but usually are similar or if there is commonly difference. (Alternatively, if one can train one but not the other, in a way how one can train upper body and not lower body although generally is recommended to train both.)

Even Tedd's ability to shred any enchantment may be matched with just as high ability to resist spells, in fact Pandora mentioned something like that.

[Stature 96]

Physical attributes being affected is inaccuracy and/or imprecision at work, with or without doubling. Of course, that sounds like Elliot whenever he tries to transform.

It is also difficult to visualize if, on the background of panel 3, Rhoda is on left and Diane is on the right. If they are, either someone shrunk and/or grew.

[Pharaoh RutinTutin 1,586]

So we are going to see Ellen stumble her way into a bunch of new spell effects in an upcoming part of the story.

I would guess this is a way to stave off the pitchforks and torches of Bunnies crying "RETCON!" when Ellen suddenly has just the spell she needs from out of nowhere.  Dan can say "Sure, she's been able to do that.  She just needed time and/or motivation to figure it out."

[Scotty 1,061]

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

One obvious difference, as mentioned in that link, is that surprise impacts spell resistance but not enchantment resistance.

The thing is though, of course surprise affects spell resistance, you're caught off guard and so you aren't able to brace yourself against it, but once you're enchanted, surprise is no longer an issue, sure there would be other factors that can prevent you from resisting properly, mind control, some sort of torture, something that can keep you from concentrating on resisting the enchantment. It's the not thinking about resisting that would be the common thread here.

[Don Edwards 548]

15 hours ago, Scotty said:

I'm pretty certain the difference between the two is that Spell resistance is the ability for a person to resist an attempt to enchant them, and enchantment resistance applies to being able to shrug off an enchantment after it's been applied.

I'd modify that slightly, because of what I think an enchantment is: an effect of a spell, that requires ongoing consumption of magical energy to sustain it. Not all spells create enchantments, the most obvious example being Tedd's changing default form but the first apparent example being Tamashii Gekido.

Spell resistance would be the ability to resist the direct* magical effect of any spell. Enchantment resistance would be the ability to shrug off an ongoing, magically-sustained effect after it is applied, or perhaps to specifically resist having enchantments applied. If they aren't different applications of the same underlying ability and strength, then enchantment resistance would be of little or no use against a non-enchantment spell.

* There are also indirect and non-magical effects. Tamashii Gekido blasts things in various directions, and even though the blast is magical their trajectories follow ordinary laws of physics after launch; spell resistance won't stop them from hitting you.

[Scotty 1,061]

5 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

I'd modify that slightly, because of what I think an enchantment is: an effect of a spell, that requires ongoing consumption of magical energy to sustain it. Not all spells create enchantments, the most obvious example being Tedd's changing default form but the first apparent example being Tamashii Gekido.

Spell resistance would be the ability to resist the direct* magical effect of any spell. Enchantment resistance would be the ability to shrug off an ongoing, magically-sustained effect after it is applied, or perhaps to specifically resist having enchantments applied. If they aren't different applications of the same underlying ability and strength, then enchantment resistance would be of little or no use against a non-enchantment spell.

* There are also indirect and non-magical effects. Tamashii Gekido blasts things in various directions, and even though the blast is magical their trajectories follow ordinary laws of physics after launch; spell resistance won't stop them from hitting you.

I did mention spells that change default forms as being exempt from enchantment resistance, one could still try to resist the spell itself. And I wasn't talking about all spells either, just spells that apply enchantments.

As far as the Tamashii Gekido  and other spells like it goes. they aren't enchantments so there's no point in expecting the need to resist them after you get hit, UNLESS of course there's an added effect to it. Tamashii Gekido itself seems like it creates a concussive shockwave AOE, the shockwave wouldn't have to be composed of magic energy and it's likely a person hit by it only has to brace against the physical impact rather than any magic impact. Something like a Hadoken would of course have magic energy incorporated into the blast but it still seems like the target would be more worried about bracing against the kinetic force unless the blast also carried some for of enchantment like Ellen's FV5 beam does.

If a spell creates a fireball, what are you going to worry about more, resisting the spell when it hits you? Or the severe burns you'll get if you let it hit you? You'd probably want to have some sort of counter like a magic shield or some enchantment active on you to absorb or deflect the potential damage.

[hkmaly 490]

18 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

So we are going to see Ellen stumble her way into a bunch of new spell effects in an upcoming part of the story.

I would guess this is a way to stave off the pitchforks and torches of Bunnies crying "RETCON!" when Ellen suddenly has just the spell she needs from out of nowhere.  Dan can say "Sure, she's been able to do that.  She just needed time and/or motivation to figure it out."

Based on Dan mentioning what Ellen is NOT canonically aware of, I would assume she IS canonically aware of most of those abilities. She already mentioned she has multiple beams in canon. And yes, we can expect that some of those beams will be used when dealing with Vampires ...

7 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

22 hours ago, Scotty said:

I'm pretty certain the difference between the two is that Spell resistance is the ability for a person to resist an attempt to enchant them, and enchantment resistance applies to being able to shrug off an enchantment after it's been applied.

I'd modify that slightly, because of what I think an enchantment is: an effect of a spell, that requires ongoing consumption of magical energy to sustain it. Not all spells create enchantments, the most obvious example being Tedd's changing default form but the first apparent example being Tamashii Gekido.

Yes, obviously the description would be only correct for spells which creates enchantment.

Also note that only Tedd can shrug off an enchantment instantly - for most people, enchantment resistance is about how fast they get rid of it if they don't want it to keep going.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

If a spell creates a fireball, what are you going to worry about more, resisting the spell when it hits you? Or the severe burns you'll get if you let it hit you? You'd probably want to have some sort of counter like a magic shield or some enchantment active on you to absorb or deflect the potential damage.

This actually depends on fireball. Fireball might be magic fire which disappears when you remove the magic, or it can be real fire just held together by magic. Or something between that. Maybe the fireball will cool down and disappears in half of second if you remove magic.

In extreme case, removing magic from fireball can make it explode. Although that's more related to attempt to dispel it middle-flight: if it hits you, it explodes anyway and the magic is not targeted to you so you can't resist it.

[Scotty 1,061]

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

This actually depends on fireball. Fireball might be magic fire which disappears when you remove the magic, or it can be real fire just held together by magic. Or something between that. Maybe the fireball will cool down and disappears in half of second if you remove magic.

In extreme case, removing magic from fireball can make it explode. Although that's more related to attempt to dispel it middle-flight: if it hits you, it explodes anyway and the magic is not targeted to you so you can't resist it.

Actually, I just remembered we do have 2 examples of fireballs in EGS, the fire golems spit fireballs which Cheerleadra!Elliot stated had "more punch than burn" meaning it was more like a flashy kinetic projectile with a concussive burst on impact, and it seems like the Bulldog Dragon's fireballs also had more kinetic power than incendiary power, there's nothing left burning or even burnt after impact, Cheerleadra!Elliot's injuries appear to be severe road rash from the fall.

As far as removing the magic, it apparently just causes the projectile to fizzle into nothing. Granted we are dealing with fireballs created by summoned entities so one could argue that the fireball itself was a part of the summoned entity hence why both dispersed at the same time. I guess the question would be, would all projectiles created by magic be considered summoned entities?

[hkmaly 490]

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

Actually, I just remembered we do have 2 examples of fireballs in EGS, the fire golems spit fireballs which Cheerleadra!Elliot stated had "more punch than burn" meaning it was more like a flashy kinetic projectile with a concussive burst on impact

The fire monster wasn't really hot, much less burning.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

and it seems like the Bulldog Dragon's fireballs also had more kinetic power than incendiary power, there's nothing left burning or even burnt after impact, Cheerleadra!Elliot's injuries appear to be severe road rash from the fall.

There IS possibility there is magic component of Cheerleadra shielding - no matter if Elliot is or isn't aware. But I agree there doesn't seem to be any real fire in that either.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

As far as removing the magic, it apparently just causes the projectile to fizzle into nothing.

Which we shouldn't generalize, but we can take it as another proof there wasn't real fire inside buldog dragon fire.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

Granted we are dealing with fireballs created by summoned entities so one could argue that the fireball itself was a part of the summoned entity hence why both dispersed at the same time.

Dan said:

Why yes, the magical fireball of death did stop mid-air while traveling at a fantastic speed without exploding. It's a magical fireball of death. Are you you REALLY going to tell it what it can and cannot do?

Nothing about other monsters, but definitive confirmation this one was mostly magic. Also, suggests that the reason WHY the fireball disappeared was drama, specifically will of magic's flair for drama. Hmmm ... maybe we will have less stuff like this after reset?

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

I guess the question would be, would all projectiles created by magic be considered summoned entities?

Seems unlikely, but if the question would be "would all projectiles created by magic we will see in EGS be considered summoned entities" it would be harder to answer. Griffins didn't summoned anything fire-looking and the vampire had something looking as classical bombs ...

(there are lot of things which certainly exists in EGS world but Dan doesn't want to show them in comics ; sometimes he deliberately leaves the door open, as with the "timetravel is only thing we know for sure can't be done with magic")