CaedesPlerique

I never said Ranma was physically stronger than Ryouga, just that they were about equal as a male. Then comes the female side, your saying that she is VERY weak compared to her male strength at this point, which is false. Weaker, yes, but maybe 10-25%, not 50% or higher.

True, Ranma does not go around destroying things left and right, but that doesn't mean he cannot. We see several scenes in manga or anime where his strength is shown, but its a question of when that strength is shown, what is it for? He usually evades or stops people, not being reckless like Ryouga or others.

Oh, I decided to watch that anime episode and I noticed something that heavily supports Ranma having the same strength as Ryouga.



Go to 3:40, the two are locked in a stalemate in strength. Considering everything else, I would say it supports my theory further.


Course, I suspect you'll be stubborn (like myself) and give an alternative reason..... bah.

Moving over here too! Man this post was unused for awhile... Nov. 20th, 2010.

Well, the drinking fountain, in the Manga at least, Ranma is falling towards it, so it is the entire impact of his body weight that shatters the fountain and sends the water spray into the air. I will give you that Ranma can shatter the utility pole, but Ryoga seems to be capable of shattering a greater area. (I also mentioned Akane denting a utility pole, and putting cracks in it. And this is yet another Anime exaggeration, so be careful not to compare this to the Manga)



Well, this is the gist of my argument. Ranma is not fighting the force of gravity when she moves the umbrella down to block the bandannas, and than again when she holds the umbrella over her head. She is in free fall, so ALL she has to fight is the momentum of the umbrella. Once it is over her head, she can balance it while she and Akane settle onto the roof/tree.

Ranma is seen hitting the ground and jumping in the Manga, and I believe in the Anime she bounces from tree to tree. (And in my fanfic she did NOT do this, I reduced her strength proportionally to Ukyo's lower strength) However, she's keeping the umbrella balanced as she does this and not effecting its angular momentum. All the power for her leaps come from her legs.

In short, Ranma makes it LOOK like she is handling the umbrella easily. And even the boys watching comment on this. ("Wasn't that umbrella incredibly heavy?") But in fact, everything she does is in keeping with Ranma's strategy of redirecting an opponent's strength against them. Akane wouldn't be able to do that, but not because she's not strong enough. Rather, it's because she doesn't have the skill Ranma has in aerial combat, and the agility to be able to handle the umbrella like that while simultaneously keeping up with it and carrying Akane. Even Ukyo, in my fanfic, stumbles in her attempt to redirect the umbrella and hurts herself.

Ryoga, on the other hand, handles the umbrella while standing on the ground, and in fact stabs with it like a sword. This takes FAR greater strength, and in fact should imbalance his body so much that he tips forward, if the umbrella weighs more than he does. Even if it weighs half his body weight, he still must be phenomenally strong to keep his balance and move the umbrella that quickly.



Actually, my assumption was that Ryoga was using his chi/ki to make the umbrella LIGHTER, or at least make his body able to handle it without becoming unbalanced. That's given my imperfect understanding of the concept, though, and it really doesn't matter. We can see the end result, and how it defies the laws of physics, and hopefully it can be quantified and made consistent in some manner.

[edit] Oops, meant to move this, but forgot that step. Oh well, maybe next time.

One simple thing I would like to bring up, since were bringing Newtonian laws into play, is Occam's Razor. Whatever is the simplest explanation is probably the right one. It's simpler, based on all the facts, to assume that Ranma has nearly as much strength as Ryouga does early in the series. It's certainly possible that Ranma might be redirecting the energy, but when Ranma has shown destructive tendencies, hes been shown to be able to perform as much destruction as Ryouga and usually more than Akane.

The destruction of the fountain is not because Ranma put his weight behind it, but because he put his power. Otherwise, he would be destroying fences and other things all the time, that or the fountain wouldn't have been damaged at all. Again, I apply Occum's razor here.

Two additional scenes that show Ranma's strength more directly, is the Hiryu Shoten Ha and the Super Sobe. After being cured of the HSH, Ranma goes on a destruction binge, annoying Akane and the others as he proves his strength left and right. With Akane, even if he is in male form, easily defeats her after she loses her super strength. Ranma's female form is weaker, based on Ranma's reactions between the two forms, but not enough that Akane would suddenly be much stronger.

Compared to Shampoo, Akane is much weaker. Shampoo posed as a 'wrestling' booth once and easily defeated Akane.

Again, with Occams razor (I love this thing!), Akane is weaker than Ranma or Shampoo, possibly even Ukyo. She's also the weakest fighter of the fiancees, as she's never taken very seriously by the others or is protected by Ranma.

Almech spoke more in line of what I was thinking. Ryouga and Ranma's physical stats are nearly even in that first fight, but Ranma has greater skill. Only reason Ryouga is able to even push him is due to bystanders getting in the way. The only time Ryouga really hit Ranma was that cut on the cheek, while Ranma got several good blows into him. This means their strength and speed are nearly equal, which when you take in his girl form, would be maybe slightly weaker in strength. Maybe not enough to throw the umbrella around like it weighed half a pound, but more than enough to lift and grip it.

The scene where she grabs the umbrella, theres the power of her kick and grabbing the umbrella to stop its momentum without being pushed back. That requires a huge amount of strength for BOTH actions.

The scene with Akane, while her face does not show an 'Urgh', the text says it, meaning she is putting muscle behind it, far more effort then Ranma's female form had to.

Ukyo is never really shown her physical strength, so knowing how strong she is is unknown except when throwing that large spatula around. She is shown to be on fairly close standing to Shampoo and Kodachi in skill, with their own perspective styles.

Remember that Mousse is also much taller than Ranma is, even his male form, so the reach difference is much greater. It's her first fight against him and before his serious improvements in speed training, thus allowing him to hit her easier. Her opponents when she's female, have usually been closer to her height, so the reach difference is less noticeable.


As to the Ki/Chi, I know that the translated and original have very little discussion about it except for a few techniques, because it is more familiar to Japanese than Americans. The thing is, that we don't know if Akane is able to channel her ki or chi this early on.


I am a firm believer that most of the characters know a form of Hidden Weapons, seeing as Kodachi or many other characters pull objects from nowhere. If you remember the 'commanding' drug that Shampoo gave Ranma, this is when Kasumi gave Akane her mallet. She just 'hid' it like the other characters hide their weapons. Mousse is just a 'master' of it by being able to hide an obscene amount. Same goes for Iron Cloth, which is shown that other characters know it as well, or versions of it.


As a note on Kasumi, I also don't think she's the perfect angel people picture her as. She gave Akane the weight to throw at Ryouga in the rain, she put cats on Ranma, she also gave Akane her Mallet, like I said earlier. The other characters don't consider her perfect either, as the possession Oni showed, since it was Soun who forbid everyone from hitting her. She is nice, but she's a bit of an oddball.


[Edit - Oh, and we should probably move character discussion (canon to toher other topic like Almech said... ]

Reading the chapters carefully, there are several points that give credence to it.

Book 2, Part 11, Page 64 (of the copy I have) shows one of Furiken students unable to lift it. Akane is seen with at least one hand trying to lift it, but it shows an 'URGH!' text while she's trying to do this, meaning she is putting muscle behind her attempt to lift it, which was what I meant by straining. I don't even see her lift it at all. (I don't watch anime much, so I don't rely on that source material)

Part 13, Page 91 shows Ranma kicking it, but also grabbing it and lifting it with one hand with ease. If you grab something with that much weight behind it, even if the kick bled off a bit, the spin itself would have been tremendous enough to cause someone that could not handle it easily to have difficulty. Page 92 shows her using its opening to spin it and block the bandannas while it is pointed downwards while cradling Akane. This proves that her females strength is significantly stronger than Akane. Ranma just calls her 'gorilla' to insult her, usually as a come back to something Akane said first.

Realistically, the opening of the umbrella would have proven no good as it has been proven by Mythbusters that something that heavy, even if it is spread open to catch something, would in no way slow you down.


I wouldn't say Ranma's female form is faster either, since it is never revealed that the form is faster. It is hinted, such as the fight against Pantyhose Taro that first time, that Ranma's male form is stronger. The most significant benefit to Ranma's male form is his reach, as the fight with Mousse proved. Though that wasn't reinforced much later on.


And another important thing most people seem to miss, is that Ki/Chi channeling or any real discussion on using it to strengthen the body or other abilities, is absent from the story. Unlike stories like Naruto, where they explain the abilities behind what they do, Ranma 1/2 doesn't. For the Shishihokodan, only part I can see is Ranma asking why Ryouga's chi was much more powerful.


Akane usually only is able to lift those object when she is angry. Ranma is seen as being rarely angry, but when he is, his/her strength is even greater. Same with any of the characters in the story.