[Crocasaurus Rex]

Simply Dude, on 06 February 2010 - 04:25 PM, said:

I sincerly doubt they crossed the Panama Canal during the warm season. Those things slipped on gumballs for crying out loud.

They were newborns. Cut them some slack.

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But for the record, I still disagree the American version being believeable. Why? Well, the joke's on that because no animal would grow to THAT size. Whales, yes but not iguanas.

Of course. Even whales don't grow to that size, and certainly no land-dweller ever has - their bones would shatter, assuming they are anything resembling the calcium-based things most animals have. But, comparing Gojira to Godzilla, Godzilla is a much more believable monster than the other.

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Wait a minute... if the '98 movie, which is the one 'The Harder They Fall' references, took place in New york, and that's where the eggs hatched.. how in the name of Arceus did those three make it to the Pacific ocean? There's continents in the way, and you can't tell me that just because it's an amphibious species means it could go around Canada/the Arctic or South America/Antarctica! It's too cold down there for a lizard of any sort! *brainsplode*

Sorry if I never make any sense.

They probably went to Japan the same way they went to New York. If I remember the movie correctly, they were born on some of the Pacific islands that had suffered nuclear testing, and the first attacks were on Japanese fishing boats. It always seemed like a bit of a plot hole to me, but if, as Almech says, their mutations include warm-bloodedness (and any creature that size would have to be endothermic to generate enough heat to survive), they could have gone through the canal while still young or around the cape in South America.

[Almech Alfarion]

Crocasaurus Rex, on 06 February 2010 - 07:24 PM, said:

They were newborns. Cut them some slack.

To reinforce this... How long (on average) does it take a newborn baby to learn to walk? or a bird to figure out how to use its wings? and even after they do succeed it still takes them a while to learn to do it without lurching or stumbling around in the process.

Crocasaurus Rex, on 06 February 2010 - 07:24 PM, said:

Of course. Even whales don't grow to that size, and certainly to land-dweller ever has - their bones would shatter, assuming they are anything resembling the calcium-based things most animals have. But, comparing Gojira to Godzilla, Godzilla is a much more believable monster than the other.

I think the Fic says that their bones are made in a lattice structure... let me check quick... Ah here it is.

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She lowered her tricorder and faced Nick. Neo Moon asked Nick. "Have you found out how this creature can be this large and not collapse from its own weight?"

Nick was surprised at the type of question he was being asked. He was pleased to be on a topic he was an expert in. "The bones are formed in a lattice. They are very lightweight and yet the structure makes them able to support far more weight than a normal bone. The material that makes up the bones also has a slight give to it to prevent shock fractures from hard impacts."

Now I don't know if this is cannon to the 98 "Godzilla" movie or not (or if the movie even HAS an explanation...) but it's Becky's explanation on it (which is what matters to this discussion I think)... needless to say its bones are not your assembly line calcium, but probably more along the lines of cartilage but not quite... I'm not exactly the best at biology or chemistry myself...

[Simply Dude]

I'd say, the science behind the American Godzilla is riduclous. Besides, that thing and the entire movie was more of a Jurassic Park rip-off than an well, Godzilla movie.

I mean come, the American version is just basically the T-Rex and the Chibizillas are basically the raptors.

[Crocasaurus Rex]

Simply Dude, on 06 February 2010 - 06:17 PM, said:

I'd say, the science behind the American Godzilla is ridiculous.

And giant three-headed monsters that fly on airless planets, size-shifting robots, talking baby Gojira, and giant moths, turtles, and pterodactyls are more scientific how?

[Simply Dude]

Like a giant iguana fares better? And what about this? The bullshit explanation how the American version got to Manhattan. I refer to this link.

http://www.agonyboot...998.aspx?Page=7

[Crocasaurus Rex]

Simply Dude, on 06 February 2010 - 06:33 PM, said:

Like a giant iguana fares better? And what about this? The bullshit explanation how the American version got to Manhattan. I refer to this link.

http://www.agonyboot...998.aspx?Page=7

Fares better, yes. That doesn't mean that it is at all likely to happen, but it is much more probable than Gojira & Co.

[Simply Dude]

Probable? Please. That thing doesn't even come close to being probable. Believability only works on certain characters, but not something like Godzilla. Works for Batman but not Godzilla.

[Ghost]

Once again, I don't think this thread is for debating which version of Gojira/Godzilla is better. In the writer's universe, the writer is god.

[Larry the Cucumber]

The activity is nice, though.

[Simply Dude]

Ghost, on 06 February 2010 - 09:03 PM, said:

Once again, I don't think this thread is for debating which version of Gojira/Godzilla is better. In the writer's universe, the writer is god.

Sorry but it's just that I'd like to know why Becky used that version. It's still not Godzilla even Toho knows it.

[Larry the Cucumber]

It wouldn't be the same without a snappy french spy.

[Ghost]

Larry the Cucumber, on 06 February 2010 - 07:12 PM, said:

It wouldn't be the same without a snappy french spy.

Activity is nice, but the French spy is awesome. I seriously would love to see him in a sequal. "Mercury in Paris." There's a thought.

[Almech Alfarion]

I think I'm beginning to see a pattern here... and If I should be so bold, from what I've seen I get the feeling that you're somewhat of a Gojira purest... no offense meant BTW, you are entitled to your opinion after all.

That said... you said earlier that you thought Becky "Missed an opportunity" by using the Godzilla from the American movie instead of the original Gojira. I think you missed the point of the fic here. Sure the Godzilla creatures were the "Big Bad" they fought in the fic but that wasn't the main plot behind it... I've read the fics enough where I can see the patterns Becky is weaving into them more easily then, say, a casual observer. While they are fighting an enemy there are also many things being weaved into the picture and the enemy is just a plot device used more or less to distract the casual eye from these points instead of the center-point of the plot itself. There are many key events that take place during the fic that are hinted at being important later on.

I shall now list a few of the ones that I can find easily in no order in particular as I skim through the fic quick...

• Ranma and Akane start a more intensive training regiment with Minako and Makoto, starting to better train the senshi while improving their own skills
• Ranma and Akane are officially introduced to Usa and her future/past (time travel is confusing) thing, who says that Ranma is her martial arts sensei in the future...
• Nodoka begins to break more noticeably from Genma and eventually even proposes to Ranma and Akane that she come to live with them in Juuban with the condition that Genma is only ever a "Guest" in their home and not a live in freeloader, she eventually does sell her property in the Nerima ward and begins looking at homes and apartments in Juuban. this carries over into "Thrice"....
• Ranma gets a job at a Sushi Bar as Ranko much to his ire further reinforcing his desire to find an occupation that needs his limited skill set (I don't know if this is entirely relevant but it seams profound in some way...)
• Nabiki discovers a connection between Ranma and the Sailor Senshi but is still in the dark as to its true nature despite her speculations which are incidentally completely off... This leads her to assisting in the arrangement of a meeting between Kuno and the Senshi where she first experiences teleportation sickness...
• Shampoo discovers where Ranma and Akane are living in Juuban and confronts them, wanting to at least be their friend if she can't have Ranma as her Aieren. She later gets herself involved in the battle against the Godzillas after seeing a news report that points to the place where she knows Ranma lives as a troubled spot, using the Silence Glaive to telling affect when the chibizillas attack. This eventually leads to Ranma giving her a Senshi communicator and the promise of Senshi assistance if she ever needs it...
• Tatewaki Kuno learns the location of the Vile Sorcerer and His Firey Akane Tendo and confronts them with predictable results. This event eventually leads to him discovering the firey Sailor Sun and The Fierce Sailor Io and a new obsession with them, not knowing that them and the Saotome's are one and the same, eventually leading to the confrontation in the Furinkan Gymnasium and the resultant fallout leading to events in "Thrice in a Millennium."
• Ukyo and Konatsu are partaking in more intensive training together then they were in the past due to events in "Just Add Water" as an effort to be able to assist the Senshi, more specifically Ranma and Akane, more effectively in the future. Ukyo recieves a new Combat Spatula and a Katana with a strange symbol on it, both made of the same dull Grey lightweight material, from a mysterious friend. This focus to help her friends eventually leads to her getting caught up in events when the Godzilla's attack where she looses most of one of her legs and a few fingers to a chibizilla, leading her to be healed by the Senshi and eventually the events taking place in thrice.
• And Finally! the Epilogue introduces us to a boatload of new Senshi in a scene from the future, with plenty of insinuation and pointers telling us who their NWC alter egos were in the past.

Well those are the ones I found just skimming through the fic. That's not including any of the major points in the previous fics or the ones I may have missed. My point is, the Godzilla theme of the Fic is just a cover for these (and other) points which will be more relevant in the future. Remember the Novels (as in PLURAL) are about Ranma and Akane Saotome, the Sailor Senshi, and sometimes the Tendo's... NOT Godzilla/Gojira and Gojira's subsequent rivals and enemies.

[Wyrd]

First, I want to agree with Almech that, above and beyond any other reasons, The 2008 Godzilla just fits the style and atmosphere of this set of novels better. I have never seen a monster movie of the classic Godzilla style that was not cheezy, and I don't think you could write a story that was true to these origins without it being cheezy. Now, don't get me wrong, I greatly enjoy a classic monster flick, but that does not lessen the cheeze factor. The main example I can think of from the story as a moment that bugs me because of its departure from the established style is the Senshi using their attacks on Kuno. These have been established as being stronger than Ranma's ki attacks after he fought Herb(not as skilled, but stronger) and Ranma managed to defeat Kuno in the first episode, yet, somehow, Kuno is not appreciably injured by being repeatedly struck by their spells with several months of training with Ranma to strengthen them. I can see him surviving physical abuse, because they, Ranma and Akane especially, know exactly how much they have to hold back to avoid killing him. This deviation in how a fundamental trait of the story is treated bugs me. Writing The Harder They Fall as a classic Gojira flick would have to be even more out of character for the story.

On size, adult Godzilla is around the size of the largest predator of pre-history, which I cannot seem to remember the name of right now. Only one(maybe two, it's been a while since I saw the original article) skeleton has ever been found of it, but it made T-rex look like a Dachsund next to a German Shepherd. Also, in a world with Ranma, the NWC, and the Sailor Senshi, you're going to bring in lack of believability on the dinosaur throwback? Our genes contain the potential to generate most of the structures that any of our ancestors had at any point in evolutionary history, with a small number of control genes determining how they express. There is actually a project going right now that is attempting to create a phylogenetic clone(one that looks like the original species, even if the genes are not the same) of a raptor from chickens, that has already had success in reactivating some old genes that the chickens still carry. All of the abilities the 1998 Godzilla show exist in nature. The odds of that particular combination coming about are astronomical, but not impossible. No matter how bad the odds are against something happening, if it is possible, then it will likely happen eventualy, on some world, somewhere, somewhen. After all, in a world of 6 billion people, million to one chaces happen 6,000 times a day.

On how that extinct dinosaur functioned at his size: how should I know? I did write a story once where the fossilization process, unbeknownst to us, had a tendency to enlarge bones. The original T-rex wasn't much bigger than a horse =) Another plot thread that I really wanted to use in an RPG that never happened was that the nukes didn't mutate Godzilla into existence, they weakened the fabric of space enough that one wandered over from a world were they had evolved, and where natural competition had kept them in check. Introducing completely new species into an ecosystem is often extremely disruptive.

[Wyrd]

And yes, the French guy rocks. I love that actor. Jean Reno had been in some of my favorite movies.

[Larry the Cucumber]

Wyrd, on 06 February 2010 - 10:33 PM, said:

Our genes contain the potential to generate most of the structures that any of our ancestors had at any point in evolutionary history, with a small number of control genes determining how they express. There is actually a project going right now that is attempting to create a phylogenetic clone(one that looks like the original species, even if the genes are not the same) of a raptor from chickens, that has already had success in reactivating some old genes that the chickens still carry.

Totally saw an episode of Star Trek TNG that dealt with that this week. Whee, devolution. >_>

[Torgamous]

Wyrd, on 06 February 2010 - 09:33 PM, said:

The main example I can think of from the story as a moment that bugs me because of its departure from the established style is the Senshi using their attacks on Kuno. These have been established as being stronger than Ranma's ki attacks after he fought Herb(not as skilled, but stronger) and Ranma managed to defeat Kuno in the first episode, yet, somehow, Kuno is not appreciably injured by being repeatedly struck by their spells with several months of training with Ranma to strengthen them. I can see him surviving physical abuse, because they, Ranma and Akane especially, know exactly how much they have to hold back to avoid killing him. This deviation in how a fundamental trait of the story is treated bugs me.

The prevailing theory seems to be that Kuno is a less likable version of Keitaro from Love Hina.

[Simply Dude]

Wyrd, on 06 February 2010 - 09:33 PM, said:

First, I want to agree with Almech that, above and beyond any other reasons, The 2008 Godzilla just fits the style and atmosphere of this set of novels better. I have never seen a monster movie of the classic Godzilla style that was not cheezy, and I don't think you could write a story that was true to these origins without it being cheezy. Now, don't get me wrong, I greatly enjoy a classic monster flick, but that does not lessen the cheeze factor. The main example I can think of from the story as a moment that bugs me because of its departure from the established style is the Senshi using their attacks on Kuno. These have been established as being stronger than Ranma's ki attacks after he fought Herb(not as skilled, but stronger) and Ranma managed to defeat Kuno in the first episode, yet, somehow, Kuno is not appreciably injured by being repeatedly struck by their spells with several months of training with Ranma to strengthen them. I can see him surviving physical abuse, because they, Ranma and Akane especially, know exactly how much they have to hold back to avoid killing him. This deviation in how a fundamental trait of the story is treated bugs me. Writing The Harder They Fall as a classic Gojira flick would have to be even more out of character for the story..

Well, you explain it nicely but again I have to disagree a bit as the cheesy factor is part of the charm of the Godzilla films. Even internet celebrity James Rolfe has noticed that.

And I'm willing to take the challenge of writing a Sailor Ranko fanfic as a classic Godzilla flick. That is if I get permission to do so.

[Crocasaurus Rex]

Simply Dude, on 06 February 2010 - 08:38 PM, said:

Well, you explain it nicely but again I have to disagree a bit as the cheesy factor is part of the charm of the Godzilla films. Even internet celebrity James Rolfe has noticed that.

And I'm willing to take the challenge of writing a Sailor Ranko fanfic as a classic Godzilla flick. That is if I get permission to do so.

I don't think you need permission for fanfiction. If you did, there wouldn't be nearly so much butchering of good stories as there is.

I think Wyrd's point was that, in the context of Becky's novels, the cheezy style of the original Godzilla would have been inappropriate. As long as it does not break the flow of the particular story, cheezyness would be entirely acceptable.

[Simply Dude]

Crocasaurus Rex, on 06 February 2010 - 11:01 PM, said:

I don't think you need permission for fanfiction. If you did, there wouldn't be nearly so much butchering of good stories as there is.

I think Wyrd's point was that, in the context of Becky's novels, the cheezy style of the original Godzilla would have been inappropriate. As long as it does not break the flow of the particular story, cheezyness would be entirely acceptable.

It's her concept, I can't use some of her ideas unless she gives the okay.

And that's why she could've used the original version. It wouldn't break the flow of her story. Besides, with the original Godzilla; she would've made great use of tension.