Vorlonagent

I'd say your hardware is safe for reasons already discussed (24 as inaccurate entertainment) If you are alleging 24 was de facto propaganda in favor of torture, I'm good with that. I can agree or disagree by my own interpretation of the show and, as previously stated, I haven't seen it so I have no opinion with which to differ from yours. If you're alleging conscious, intentional propaganda, I'm going to want to see some proof. The US entertainment industry taken as a group is extremely leftward in politics. Claiming intentional propaganda in favor of torture is an extraordinary claim that plays way against type. As Carl Saga said, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof." I don't think a 100% successful method of doing anything important exists in the real world. That's why I said I could do "plausible." I'm trying to make sure I understand your reference to 9/11. I think you're making a case for some intel being ubiquitous. From an information standpoint it's difficult-to-impossible to pull off something big that comes totally out of the blue, catching everybody offguard with no clues or forewarning prior to when the plan starts in motion. Do I have this right? The US did not perceive there was the threat, let alone let alone comprehend its immediacy that would require torture, so there would be no difference. With nobody trying to stop the timer at 007, the time bomb simply ticks down and explodes, which is what happened in 9/11. Information that exists but has been underestimated might as well not exist if an investigator with 24 hours left before the 9/11 attacks occur has to fill out requests in triplicate and allow 4-6 weeks for delivery. To stop 9/11 our imaginary investigator would need detailed information as close to immediately as is possible and specifics like hijacker names and flight numbers. I'm not sure the word "provably" fits. This sort of thing is not an experiment with methods and controls in place. We can research cases. We can divide them into ones where torture was employed and those that aren't and look at success rates. But unless one success rate is 0 and the other is 100%, you won't get a remotely provable result.

I can't defend 24 beyond reminding you that it is a TV show scripted to attract and hold interest, nor for accuracy to the real world. Having GMed my fair share of games I can also propose ways a villain can plausibly get around all your objections. Which brings us to the general case of the "ticking time-bomb" scenario: Something important is at stake and a Bad Thing is going to happen after a short amount of time such that normal methods are too slow to be effective. What extremity of measures are we willing to take and what morals are we willing to compromise to stop the Bad Thing from happening? One mark of evil people in movies or TV is that they are casually willing to engage in extreme measures in the service of petty goals. Would you torture a bad guy to save a city, is as I've said extreme. A kidnapper has taken a child and demanded money saying that the child has been buried in a remote location with X hours of air. He will only reveal the location after he is paid Y amount of money and given safe passage out of the country. He is captured before his deadline. Do you torture him for the location of the child? People have attempted kidnap scenarios like this in the real world.

Pigged out on boardom...what a ham.

Once again the prevalence of torture in history and across the planet says it is effective. Much must no doubt depend on the precise meaning of "information gathering". In the special case of naming co-conspirators, most authoritarian governments tend to view people as an expansible resource. A net cast too wide which catches the innocent along with the guilty merely enhances the intelligence agency's ability to intimidate. Just as pirates depend on fear to intimidate a ship into handing over valuables without a fight, so also intelligence agencies use fear to get at information without having to resort to torture. The Gestapo especially and probably the KGB as well prize efficiency. At what point does interrogation become "torture" then? How "rough" can one be and still just be an interrogator? I'm not sure there's an agreed-upon dividing line. When someone is taken to a "special interrogation" unit, I would expect that extreme methods are likely to be used. Would the interrogator you mention be able to pick up the pieces after an interrogation that was significantly rougher than her or his own? My guess is no. The likely scenario would be that the youth you mention said something to his regular interrogator that was deemed important enough to get at immediately. The youth would make the obvious connection between cooperating with his regular interrogator and being hauled away to rougher treatment and shut down regardless of whether he was actually tortured. That said, interrogators have to be good at reading people so there may be physical or emotional signs that the interrogator associated with torture specifically. Anything harsher than the Monty Python Spanish Inquisition torturers using comfy chairs and soft pillows would destroy the trust a day-to-day interrogator would need to be effective. Any fast-changing situation requires intel in a hurry. The more at stake, the greater the pressure for immediate results. I regard the "preventing a nuclear detonation" scenario as a thought experiment which takes the situation to an extreme. The real world is messy. The question would come down to how many of your own people, sometimes even friends and family, would you let be killed or harmed to maintain your ideals. The nuclear bomb scenario simply asks if you're willing to allow it to happen to millions.

World history sadly does not bear out the assertion that torture doesn't work. It does. Torture does not work as a blind fishing expedition, however. The torturer must have (or at least be able to fake having) some accurate information against which the victim's bluffs can measured, recognized and discredited. Finding the fissures and cracks in the victim's resistances and in the story the victim tells is how the torture game is played. Interrogation is a more social process, but it takes longer. Intel is most useful when it is received quickly. No doubt throwing a torture victim into the lap of an interrogator would make the process much harder because the interrogator would then have to start from a deficit than from 0 to work his or her craft successfully, drawing the intel-gathering process out even longer. One interesting interrogation technique I heard of was used against german generals during world war 2. They were treated well, I'm sure interrogated in the normal ways, but they were given good food and accommodations fitting their station. All were assigned valets to tend to them. The valets all spoke german but were trained to act as if they didn't. When the officers socialized with each other they felt completely free to discuss the war. They interrogated each other.

I would look forward to have read that when you're done...

Someone jumped on that really fast. Already wasn't there.

Can we have the amazon account name to look for? (PM if you feel security or anonymity warrants it). I'm good for a SD card.

I've heard those called "camera traps" as well. A quick google suggests that we want full-size SD cards same as most regular cameras. Confirm? I buy class-10 or better SD cards for my picture-cameras so they can record video smoothly. Many trail cameras record video and buying class-10 or better means the SD cards can be pressed into service in a picture camera if need be. Amazon sez 64 GB cards run between $25 and $30 each, which seems a good price point to shop for. How many are we talking about needing and does Mrs. prof have a preferred make and model? Can Mrs. Prof's camera(s) use 64GB? Do they need to be smaller?

May I ask "memory card for what?"

Freefall last week. FF by 2 comics as well (it's today's so no permalink till Wednesday)

That or Ed Verres has a Wand of Charts and Graphs and loaned it out.

Until the two sit down and clear the air Tedd is going to feel exactly the same way regardless. I think the most important indicator of Ed Verres' character is not how he goes into the talk but how he comes out.

Narc as slang for "tattletale" ("narcing on someone")

I don't think Justin's worked through his anger at being outed. I see it as the reason he was able to be Marked (combined with Greg's martial arts training) That presupposes she's done with the old one. I suspect there's more chaos inside Ellen's mind from the way Tedd confuses her. You'd kind of expect there to be some elbowing back and forth over who gets custody of some aspects of Elliot's psyche. I haven't seen any evidence of it. On the surface, Ellen seems to have let Elliot have the whole ball of wax and decided to try reinventing herself, letting any renaming similarities be familial ones not encroaching on identity. You may have noticed that there's a huge and passionate disagreement about Ed Verres and transphobia. I tend to think he was saying that the time Tedd spends as a girl could potentially sabotage Tedd's masculinity. There are those that see this attitude as transphobic and those that don't. That argument closed one thread already so despite temptation to comment I'm going to leave it alone and refer you to the may 8 thread if you want to know what I think. And advise you to use private messages if you want to discuss my opinion with me.

I'm hoping that the paranormal community is large enough to warrant/create a specialized mental health network. A government hack is not going to make much headway with a neurotic Uryuom.

It's a chance you take with any therapist in the Real World. They aren't interchangeable and they have to establish a rapport with their patient to be effective. Anybody that is highly judgemental of Tedd isn't going to get any useful work done with him. Ed Verres ought to understand that at least.

If you like. I'm sure we'd all be happy to add subtract, multiply and divide the list. It's kinda why I suggested a DGB-certified therapist. The therapist is best walking in already knowing about magic because they are going to have to find out before they can do useful work with anybody.

You can be the woman to blame, even though we know it's his own damn fault...

Maybe the therapist could explain a few things to Ed Verres... : Agreed, and yeah I agree that Susan needs more help than an insightful gay friend can give. I think Tedd needs more help than his work or Grace can give, too. Both of them are dealing with deep wounds to their sense of safety and trust.

OK. I can roll with this. Grace rightly called Elliot on the times when he might have caused harm to Tedd. I'm certain she would do the same for Ed Verres if he were to discuss Tedd with her. She doesn't seem the sort to be aggressive about such things. I hope I didn't give the impression that we should blame Tedd... I was also supporting "the 'can't blame Tedd for worrying." idea albeit with a different set of proofs. Part of Tedd's evolution into Tedd 3.0 was unboxing some of his past depression and anxiety and working through it. He could really use a DGB-certified therapist of some kind. Completely off topic besides insecurities, Susan could use a DGB therapist, probably Grace, definitely Noah, possibly Elliot, Ellen, Justin, maybe Sarah. Of the Main 8, it's entirely possible that only Nanase is balanced and comfortable with herself (now that she admitted to herself she is gay). Some characters are finding their own therapies. I think Tedd's Lab has become therapy for Sarah and fills the same role for Tedd somewhat (Sarah's issues are minor compared to Tedd's). Grace is Tedd's therapist at the moment. To borrow from Deadpool Ashley's crazy matches Elliot's crazy making her great for Elliot. And working at the comics store has been therapy for Justin since before the comic started.

Grace is likely fertile in all forms, with allowances in the definition of what "fertile" actually means. I'm not sure Grace's squirrel-human hybrid could breed with an unmodified human (Tedd).

I figured out how to block them.

Your post here seems to agree to me not support your earlier assertion. Your argument was that the Party Form had to have altered Elliot's sexuality. I said "why?" Elliot gained impulsiveness and it's reasonable to think he was casually attracted to Carol Brown already so: peck on the cheek from the Party Form. No alterations to Elliot's sexuality needed. Agreed. Much depends on how one says "that's just him being him.", but it's still acceptance rather than "why are you doing this?" I'd prefer that someone "get" me, but having them at least stop harping on it (whatever "it" is) is a definite step up. The ideal case is "that's him being him" said with understanding. Worry is not always justified and usually isn't. (In this case, Tedd has some cause, granted) As Tedd emerged from his Tedd 2.0 stage, the Tedd 1.0 anxieties were bound to return. Tedd would likely be worried about Elliot's opinion even if there was absolutely no reason to be, just because people important to him have left him before.

Why not? It's in-character for the Party Form to do something like that. Why complicate things by looking for motivations that don't need to exist? Even in female form, anonymity doesn't seem to have a long-term effect on Elliot's mannerisms. He'll do somethin outside his comfort zone for a moment and then his old habits reassert themselves. Date at the Mall made that pretty clear. Not having experienced a woman's body personally but having known a few, I'll go out on a small ledge and suggest that a brain doesn't work quite the same soaked in estrogen as soaked in testosterone and this day-to-day, moment to moment effect on Elliot would be more profound by far than individual instances of stepping out of his mental box from anonymity. I can go with this. Why would Elliot continue to object to Tedd's female forms? He's generally an open-minded guy. Eventually he just gets used to Tedd being Tedd and quits saying anything. The realization that both Elliot and Ed Verres needed and need is that being a girl is important to Tedd not just Tedd 2.0 stoking some fetish fuel. Neither need to transform into women themselves to figure that out. Just pay attention to Tedd. Elliot has the advantage of Tedd telling him flat-out that it's important. Tedd has not had that conversation with his dad.