NP Comic for Thursday, Sep 26, 2024

[Darth Fluffy 338]

NP Comic for Thursday, Sep 26, 2024

I agree with Diane, Lucy is taking this too well. Perhaps she does already have magic.

Medieval sword fighting would be long, straight, heavy swords with armor, perhaps also short swords as well. They have that around here, or at lest did, called Medieval Marshal Arts. Our local Ren Faire fizzled out from mismanagement, and I haven't seen them since. 'Sword' covers a lot of variety over many eras, and in our modern era, Medieval sword fighting would not be the most effective - hence Medieval style arms are rarely seriously carried in combat. A Renaissance weapon would be more effective today. There are no hard rule, advantage is situational. But modern arms are used for valid reasons.

I'm a fan of Rhoda's character, I hope she is able to maintain her friendships; I'm rooting for her. Yeah, I''m a Rhoda rooter.

[mlooney 3,594]

3 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Medieval sword fighting would be long, straight, heavy swords with armor, perhaps also short swords as well.

The SCA member in me is screaming, then breaking down crying.

Medieval covers a LOOONG period of time, with weapon and armor changing as time went on.

[Darth Fluffy 338]

6 hours ago, mlooney said:

The SCA member in me is screaming, then breaking down crying.

Medieval covers a LOOONG period of time, with weapon and armor changing as time went on.

I would ballpark as post-Roman, pre-firearm. Fuzzy edge at late Roman, and early firearms don't count, more when they are effective and reduce the benefit of armor, so armor is discarded (ironically making a resurgence since WW II).

But guys with rattan sticks should not be complaining.

Could a plate armor knight squad take an early Roman legion? I'd guess not. But the reasons are subtle, involving culture, training, supply and provisions (logistics!).

Did /me catch the Roto-Rooter pun?

[mlooney 3,594]

11 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

I would ballpark as post-Roman, pre-firearm.

Even that covers at least 4 "technologies" eras of weapon/armor combinations.  The all maille armor phase, other than some helms, is more or less illegal for the SCA combat for safety resons.  Maille  is very good at stopping edged weapons, but sucks at stopping blunt ones, and of course rattan weapons are blunt.

SCA armor tends toward either Roman/Greek style armor, early middle ages hardened leather or an attempt at late middle ages/Gothic armor.  Helms, for safety reasons tend toward high middle ages jousting helms or Gothic armor. If you are talking about the "light" (read rapier and related weapons) fighters folk, they tend toward Renaissance light armor, with maybe a few breast plates tossed in, with weird helms.  The "Cut and Thrust" steel weapon people are mainly heavy Renaissance or light Gothic armor with weird helms.  For what it's worth East Kingdom has permission to try a rapier crown tournament some time next year, which may lead to a break in the strangle hold that "heavy" fighters have on being sovereigns. I'd say king there but there have been some Queens "in their right" over the years.  Even Pennsic has as many rapier mass battles as it does heavy ones, granted not quite as large.  Recently a peerage for light weapons was created.  

[mlooney 3,594]

Sorry for the wall of text info dump

[Darth Fluffy 338]

Rapiers are effective in an era with little armor, but still cumbersome enough that a modern mobile army will not train and carry them. Basically a knife with excellent reach.

[mlooney 3,594]

Points of information.

1. Early rapiers were made stiff enough and pointy enough that they could pierce the weak spots on Gothic armor.  It was after they more or less stopped wearing armor that rapiers got lighter.  Even mid renaissance rapiers are fairly stiff and heavy, at least by rapiers standards.
2. They are pointy  piercing weapons, not cutting weapons. Knives, as a rule, a cutting weapons.  Some daggers are piercing weapons I'll grant.

I'm fairly well up on Classic Greek to renaissance weapons and armor, plus very much up on WWI and later systems.  Not as good as I used to be, given memory loss, but I still have my reference books.

Side note.  Chrome spell check, at least on my machine bitches if "gothic" isn't "Gothic".  Doesn't do that for other time periods.  Odd.

[Darth Fluffy 338]

17 hours ago, mlooney said:

Points of information.

1. Early rapiers were made stiff enough and pointy enough that they could pierce the weak spots on Gothic armor.  It was after they more or less stopped wearing armor that rapiers got lighter.  Even mid renaissance rapiers are fairly stiff and heavy, at least by rapiers standards.

I saw one at the NC Ren Faire years ago that was highly functional, very long, and quite stiff, triangular cross section. It was fairly cheap, too, in the $100 to $200 ball park. I don't know which steel was used (it was not stainless), but I had a talk with the smith/vendor, and his made the point that his gear was more functional than most of the Ren vendors' weapons. That's actually been a bit of a trend lately; I'm seeing more actual usable knives and such, some smiths going for the folded patterning as well.

17 hours ago, mlooney said:

Points of information.

1. They are pointy  piercing weapons, not cutting weapons. Knives, as a rule, a cutting weapons.  Some daggers are piercing weapons I'll grant.

That is a fair point. I don't think of a rapier as quite as extreme as a foil, but yeah, I get your point (which fortunately does not physically reach here).

Even as I typed it, the thought occurred, 'It is used more like a short spear'. But even a spear point typically does more cutting as in stabs.

Actual fighting knives typically can do both well, but if stealth is desired, cutting the throat from behind is the go-to move. In dire straits, a stab will cut through soft armor more easily than a swipe. I think you'd maintain better control of your weapon after a swipe.

I had an actual K Bar back in the day, and it could have done either.

[mlooney 3,594]

There is sorta proto rapier, called the Estoc, which was made to pierce armor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estoc

[Darth Fluffy 338]

10 hours ago, mlooney said:

There is sorta proto rapier, called the Estoc, which was made to pierce armor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estoc

It looks like it would be good for what it is designed for while leaving you relatively helpless. Perhaps someone in heavy armor clearing a path for more conventional warriors backing him up.

[Pharaoh RutinTutin 1,619]

 

Unfortunately, Medieval can refer to an obscenely long period of time.  Sword can describe an insanely diverse class of weapons. And both are applicable to an impractically large variety of  geographical and linguistic options. 

Also, is her instruction in historic combat techniques?  Sport fighting based on the old weapons and skills?  Theatrical reenactment?  

Finally, is her instructor teaching her anything useful, or is she burning through her allowance following the advice of a Prince Valiant fan?