Comic for Tuesday, Jun 3, 2025

[mlooney 3,731]

Here Is.

Oh, great.  Rich is in the AU as well.  This can only end badly.

[Pharaoh RutinTutin 1,640]

 

THIS! 

This is why you do not show up to party late. 

All the good dance partners are taken. 

 

[Darth Fluffy 363]

2 hours ago, mlooney said:

Oh, great.  Rich is in the AU as well.  This can only end badly.

I did not recognize him, if indeed it is him, but, eh, it could be. 

 

His outfit looks too modern for the setting, it seemed like maybe 1700s at the latest, the outfit looks like 1800s, or later. 

 

He acts like he might know Tedd.

[ijuin 603]

I peg him as a Baron or thereabouts—somebody high enough to get into proper “High Society”, but as a follower rather than a leading figure.

[Darth Fluffy 363]

44 minutes ago, ijuin said:

I peg him as a Baron or thereabouts—somebody high enough to get into proper “High Society”, but as a follower rather than a leading figure.

A baron is not exactly a follower. 

[Don Edwards 572]

28 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

A baron is not exactly a follower. 

That depends on the baron. Some who inherited their titles were noteworthy for a near-complete lack of both accomplishments and screw-ups.

[ijuin 603]

I more-or-less meant that he is high up enough to present himself as actual nobility with a full estate and such, but not influential enough to gain a following among other nobles—he is far more prone to be in the orbit of a high-profile person than the reverse.

[Darth Fluffy 363]

10 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

That depends on the baron. Some who inherited their titles were noteworthy for a near-complete lack of both accomplishments and screw-ups.

That is entirely fair.

 

6 hours ago, ijuin said:

I more-or-less meant that he is high up enough to present himself as actual nobility with a full estate and such, but not influential enough to gain a following among other nobles—he is far more prone to be in the orbit of a high-profile person than the reverse.

I get that. Baron, in terms of nobility rank, is near the top of the food chain and might be read as minor kingship. Baronies tend toward large, and a few have at times been independent. Fictitious Genovia in The Princess Diaries is a barony.

[mlooney 3,731]

Barons being “minor” nobility is a “modern” (read 19th century) thing.  Please remember, it was a revolt of the barons that made King John sign the Magna Carta.  The SCA is not helping with this, given the weird status of barons in it.

That being said, I suspect Rich, if that is him in fact, is a hereditary knight with some money, not actual nobility,

[Pharaoh RutinTutin 1,640]

 

If he ends up buried under a  parking lot, we will know it is Rich. 

 

[mlooney 3,731]

13 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

 

If he ends up buried under a  parking lot, we will know it is Rich. 

 

That's the 3rd. I am not sure if I want that many generations of Rich.

[Darth Fluffy 363]

6 hours ago, mlooney said:

That being said, I suspect Rich, if that is him in fact, is a hereditary knight with some money, not actual nobility,

You are probably more well versed in this than I am, but I was under the impression that a knight was a minor noble, you pretty much had to be born into it.

We'll be able to tell if he can't walk forward more than two steps without taking a misstep to either side.

[mlooney 3,731]

4 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

You are probably more well versed in this than I am, but I was under the impression that a knight was a minor noble, you pretty much had to be born into it.

That really depends on the country and era.  In France, where this is taking place (well, he's basing it on a French story) most knighthoods were not hereditary as such.  Yeah, younger sons tended to get knighted, but that was more for their fathers.  Hereditary knights held very small fiefs.   And knights being minor noble also depends on country and era, but in general, no, I mean it's a step up from being riffraffs, but you're not, generally, ruling nobility.  Knighthood, apart from for younger sons, and even then, to a large degree, tended to be earned through service.

[Darth Fluffy 363]

5 hours ago, mlooney said:

That really depends on the country and era.  In France, where this is taking place (well, he's basing it on a French story) most knighthoods were not hereditary as such.  Yeah, younger sons tended to get knighted, but that was more for their fathers.  Hereditary knights held very small fiefs.   And knights being minor noble also depends on country and era, but in general, no, I mean it's a step up from being riffraffs, but you're not, generally, ruling nobility.  Knighthood, apart from for younger sons, and even then, to a large degree, tended to be earned through service.

I think 'tended to be earned through service' is a key, you could blow a good thing if you were not effective. However, a fiefdom of any size implies serf labor.

My main data point is an epic story about Poland, called, amazingly enough, 'Poland'. The framing story takes place during the Cold War, a conflict of wills between the workers and a former party functionary who is no longer firmly in control. The main story flows through previous centuries, where the worker's family were serfs of the functionary's knighted ancestors. (The workers prevail in the framing story.)

It is fiction, but it is written by James Michener, who is known for his veracity (he was also a historian).

[ijuin 603]

17 hours ago, mlooney said:

Barons being “minor” nobility is a “modern” (read 19th century) thing.  Please remember, it was a revolt of the barons that made King John sign the Magna Carta.  The SCA is not helping with this, given the weird status of barons in it.

That being said, I suspect Rich, if that is him in fact, is a hereditary knight with some money, not actual nobility,

Hmm, what ranks in between a Knight and a Baron?

Anyway, what I was trying to get at is the idea that Rich is high up enough to never need to work a day in his life or to demonstrate any real practical skills, but not high enough to join the movers and shakers of the kingdom.

[Darth Fluffy 363]

6 hours ago, ijuin said:

Hmm, what ranks in between a Knight and a Baron?

Anyway, what I was trying to get at is the idea that Rich is high up enough to never need to work a day in his life or to demonstrate any real practical skills, but not high enough to join the movers and shakers of the kingdom.

That seems to be a possibility. Then he'd be more like the modern Rich, not really a contributor, but not really taken seriously. 

[mlooney 3,731]

7 hours ago, ijuin said:

Hmm, what ranks in between a Knight and a Baron?

Knight Companion, Knight Commander, Knight banneret.  I'll grant that most Knight Commanders are also high nobels, but there are/were some that KC was their highest rank.  Military types mainly.

[ijuin 603]

3 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

That seems to be a possibility. Then he'd be more like the modern Rich, not really a contributor, but not really taken seriously. 

Yah, I was going for “useless and uninspiring, but not necessarily aware of being so”.

[Pharaoh RutinTutin 1,640]

 

14 minutes ago, ijuin said:

Yah, I was going for “useless and uninspiring, but not necessarily aware of being so”.

 

Sorry.  That has described far too many people from the Paleolithic to the present. 

 

[ijuin 603]

2 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Sorry.  That has described far too many people from the Paleolithic to the present. 

True, but how many such people have *almost* enough power to be a major hindrance to everyone around them without either having the ear of somebody more powerful, or attracting the ire of said powerful people?

[mlooney 3,731]

1 hour ago, ijuin said:

True, but how many such people have *almost* enough power to be a major hindrance to everyone around them without either having the ear of somebody more powerful, or attracting the ire of said powerful people?

You have described, at least, the majority of the people in the royal courts of England, France, the Italian states, The Ottoman Empire and the Holy Roman Empire, for at least 1000 years.  Most members of the courts could be called “ticks” i.e., hangers on, generally useless, sometimes carry disease.  I'm limiting which kingdoms and empires listed here to the ones I have some sort of knowledge about, more or less in order of my knowledge.