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mlooney

Things that go bang

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Just your basic AK series pistol.  Has any one fired a what should be a rifle "pistol"?  What is the recoil like?


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On 2/21/2022 at 2:16 PM, mlooney said:

Just your basic AK series pistol.  Has any one fired a what should be a rifle "pistol"?  What is the recoil like?

No, I have not. It looks like a bad idea. A rifle round has a lot of charge, designed to add velocity to the round. That requires a long barrel to convert the pressure into velocity, sort of why the opposite, a carbine, is somewhat effective. A rifle round in a short gun is a waste. FWIW, it should have more power than a pistol cartridge with the same sized round, but with much lower capacity and much higher cost.

I think you'd feel more recoil. The mass of the gun is considerably lower, the initial explosion is the same, and the short barrel should diminish the developed recoil somewhat; I think the mass issue would be the bigger factor. Notably, I think it would tend to climb and be hard to control. There is no lever arm weighing down the front.

Mainstream guns are mainstream for a reason; they tend to be more or less well designed (yes, there are plenty of counterexamples); some yahoo's brain fart, not so much (recalling your single shot screw on breech 50 cal posting, as another example).

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55 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Notably, I think it would tend to climb and be hard to control.

The gun savvy people that replied to this post on Facebook said more or less the same thing.  "Good way to shoot the sky and have a really long flame" was the general consensus.   One guy that has a AR-15 based "pistol" said that the felt recoil wasn't that bad, but only first shot was accurate unless you had a very low rate of fire.  Range toy is what he called his.

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The US army Worldwide Equipment Guide "recent changes" section is mainly Russian and Ukraine stuff for the last week or so.  Some of it quite old, the Mosin–Nagant rifle for example.  That was the USSR's primary rifle WWII and the Russian Empire's rifle starting in 1891 plus or minus a few years.  Mainly used as a sniper weapon now days.
 

https://odin.tradoc.army.mil/WEG/Asset/Mosin–Nagant_Russian_7.62mm_Bolt_Action_Rifle

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I wonder if any of the 131 year old rifles are still in use.  I suspect not as WWI, the Russian Revolution and WWII must have destroyed or lost a lot of rifles.

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1 hour ago, mlooney said:

I wonder if any of the 131 year old rifles are still in use.  I suspect not as WWI, the Russian Revolution and WWII must have destroyed or lost a lot of rifles.

I guar-damn-tee you that there are plenty of Mosin-Nagants still in use - as hunting rifles in the US. I do not know when they were imported for sale, but for some time they were a relatively inexpensive option for a functional deer hunting gun. I know people who would know; I'll ask. I'm pretty sure I know someone that has one. Downside - I think the ammo is slightly different but enough to matter from generally easily available hunting rounds, so it might have a higher usage cost. Most of the serious hunters I know also reload, so maybe not as much of an issue as it could be.

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3 hours ago, mlooney said:

I wonder if any of the 131 year old rifles are still in use.  I suspect not as WWI, the Russian Revolution and WWII must have destroyed or lost a lot of rifles.

I looked up the Mosin-Nagant on Wikipedia, it has more than you'd care to know about the weapon.

First off, for the most part, it was not imported into the US. It was ordered from two US companies by Czarist Russia prior to the revolution, and not all were shipped by the onset of the revolution. The new government cancelled the order, leaving the two US companies holding a good portion of the amount originally ordered. These were purchased by the US government to bail out the two manufacturers. So, though the design and specs are Russian, these are legitimately US guns. They are not, however 131 years old. The design has been modified over the years, but these would still be close to original, the 1910 version seems likely.

The article cites use of the rifle, but not the variant, into recent conflicts, especially in the Ukraine. It does not say which side; I'd guess both, but primarily Ukraine would seem to have fewer options.

Oh, hell, there are some 'interesting' caveats about the US guns being rechambered for .30-06 - results vary depending on who did the work, see a gun smith before firing. Lovely.

The basic gun is available in a number of calibers. It looks like the design was very popular. (This is also true of the AK-47.)

Some of the oldest ones have a range calibration for sighting in pr-metric Russian units, Arshins.

The gun design is almost entirely designed by Mosin, and is know as Mosin's gun in Russia. 

Interesting article, if you have the time.

 

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6 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

I guar-damn-tee you that there are plenty of Mosin-Nagants still in use -

Oh,I know that Mosin Nagants are still in use, I was wondering if any of the original Imperial Russian examples were still around being used.

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3 hours ago, mlooney said:

Oh,I know that Mosin Nagants are still in use, I was wondering if any of the original Imperial Russian examples were still around being used.

I was not able to determine that; but since by 1910 numerous improvements were applied, I doubt if the original models are fielded by any military. There are probably still many floating around in private hands. Ukraine right now is using ad hoc 'anything they can get their hands on', and they were within Russian influence, so maybe there?

I doubt if there are records of the disposition of the originals. The revolutionary era in Russia was chaotic; keeping track of who had what would have been overwhelming, getting arms in hands was paramount.

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I think that the dumb tourists didn’t realize that the shell was still live, and may have believed that a “dud” shell that failed to detonate must have failed because its defects made it incapable of detonating at all.

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It's also possible that it's an armor piercing round, which don't explode.  But based on the size and shape of it it's a 152mm HE-FRAG shell.  Either way not something I would try to carry onto a plane.

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I would bet that the Polish 11th Armored Cavalry Division has a least one "historic display troop" of the winged Hussars.  Why do I say this?  This is their unit badge:

800px-Stemma_della_11_Lubuska_Dywizja_Ka

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It is actual instructions, "go do this". Some of the words don't translate; I think 'vaccine' is the shift.

T-72 is a fairly old tank, but the instructions are also for T-90. These are the tanks that are vulnerable to cooking off all the ammo at once, almost like stealing a Ford Pinto.

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5 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

It is actual instructions, "go do this". Some of the words don't translate; I think 'vaccine' is the shift.

T-72 is a fairly old tank, but the instructions are also for T-90. These are the tanks that are vulnerable to cooking off all the ammo at once, almost like stealing a Ford Pinto.

Yeah, I noticed the "vaccine/shift" thing as well.  

A T-90 is  just a jumped up T-72.  The T72B3 is the most modern tank Russia has but even it's a rebuild  And yeah, all Russian tanks after the T-62 will have problems with ammo cook offs, it a side effect of not having ammo in protected/isolated spaces.  And the T54/55/62 series of tanks didn't have the ammo in "safe" storage like a western tank does/, just wasn't all piled up in the turret.

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One of the guys I worked with in '83 had a Pinto that he had flames painted on the wheel arches.  For some reason he thought it was a muscle car. He had other weirdness about him as well.

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On 5/18/2022 at 9:52 AM, mlooney said:

So, what if you want a technical, but all you have is a Robin Reliant?  Got you covered.

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That is amazing. It would be expensive to have in the US, you'd need a a full auto license for each gun, unless they are somehow nerfed (or even dummies). But I see it is a proper British vehicle, with right seat steering. Are their gun laws more lax than ours? That would be surprising.

The tracked rear 'wheels' are a nice touch, also the mil style cargo deck. It still looks impractical as hell. Maybe less prone to tipping, but still prone to tip. Looks like it has no armor, period (it could indeed have some hidden in the door. No wind shield. I suppose you could wear goggles, like they did at the dawn of the automobile. The engine is anemic, also high, so a good target to shut it down. In addition to instability, the front wheel is tiny, and is likely prone to getting stuck in hole or such. It's a two-seater, so presumably the driver has to stop and stand up to use the taller gun. (which is probably why it isn't loaded). ((Plus, the belt would dangle in his face.))

I imagine it is mainly a show car. It is clever in a twisted way.

The taller gun looks like a Browning, but a 30 cal, not a 50 cal. The other looks like a Vickers; the Maxims are similar, I'm judging from the stubby protruding barrel.

Thanks for posting this amusing monstrosity, made my day.

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