Political Discussion Thread (READ FIRST POST)

[Darth Fluffy 302]

I recognize the blue star, but do not get the significance of the alterations. Please explain.

[ijuin 572]

Since the latest news about NATO is the admission of Sweden, I presume that the winglike extensions represent Sweden (or the Norse/Vikings).

[mlooney 3,417]

2 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

I recognize the blue star, but do not get the significance of the alterations. Please explain.

It's the trident of Ukraine.

[Darth Fluffy 302]

1 hour ago, mlooney said:

It's the trident of Ukraine.

I did not know that was a thing.

'Trident, hmm, sounds fishy to me.'

Or 'Why stop at three? I come at you with my pentadent. Now, you're outnumbered, you and your silly trident.'

'Oh yeah? I switch to my septadent!'

'Yeah, well I switch to . . . never mind, I can't pick this sucker up.'

I think they should switch form a trident to something like pawnshops use, because it takes some balls to stand up to Russia.

[mlooney 3,417]

Ukraine has used the tryzub since the early 20th century.  It is based on the seal-trident of Volodymyr the Great, the first Grand Prince of Kyiv.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat_of_arms_of_Ukraine

[Darth Fluffy 302]

This is one the nose . . . "And he's not using mere innuendo!"

[The Old Hack 2,448]

23 hours ago, mlooney said:

Ukraine has used the tryzub since the early 20th century.  It is based on the seal-trident of Volodymyr the Great, the first Grand Prince of Kyiv.

I still fucking love that when Putin declared that Ukraine was not a country, the Ukrainians responded by withdrawing Volodymyr the Great's charter for the founding of Moscow, revoking its right to exist as a city.

[Darth Fluffy 302]

Global warming

He's actually being overly polite.

[The Old Hack 2,448]

1 hour ago, Darth Fluffy said:

He's actually being overly polite.

We have much to thank science denialism for.

[Darth Fluffy 302]

57 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

We have much to thank science denialism for.

Sad, but true.

[mlooney 3,417]

Darth Putin
@DarthPutinKGB
This week Turkey has 
-Said its Navy will enforce the Black Sea grain deal for 2 years
-Open a bayraktar plant in Ukraine
- Supply self propelled artillery to Ukraine
- Allowed Sweden into NATO
I remain a master strategist.

https://twitter.com/DarthPutinKGB/status/1678508400311689216

[mlooney 3,417]

[Darth Fluffy 302]

Last I read, Hungary is still balking on Sweden joining NATO.

[The Old Hack 2,448]

This just in: Shoigu states that in retaliation to Ukraine deploying cluster munitions, Russia will do so as well! Of course this threat rings a little hollow based on the fact that there were registered Russian use of a cluster bomb strike as early as February 24 last year where a cluster bomb artillery strike hit a hospital. For that matter, Ukraine has employed cluster munitions earlier in the war as well either from old stock or imported Turkish materiel.

In short, Shoigu's dire threat is the equivalent of him stating that in response to this unprovoked non-escalation, Russia will continue to issue its soldiers ammunition.

[mlooney 3,417]

19 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

In short, Shoigu's dire threat is the equivalent of him stating that in response to this unprovoked non-escalation, Russia will continue to issue its soldiers ammunition.

There is some evidence that for some units, mainly artillery units, that the soldiers don't even have individual weapons, much less ammunition.

[The Old Hack 2,448]

On 7/15/2023 at 3:19 PM, mlooney said:

There is some evidence that for some units, mainly artillery units, that the soldiers don't even have individual weapons, much less ammunition.

Well I didn't say anything about what he said being true.

[mlooney 3,417]

1 hour ago, The Old Hack said:

Well I didn't say anything about what he said being true.

I was a technician in an air defense fire control area.  A less "grunt" MOS in combat arms you aren't going to find.  I was issued a rifle, and, in theory, my rifle had 5 magazines in storage.  I can't conceive of a military unit, regardless of where they are with relation to the front lines, not having personal weapons and ammo.  The fact that Russian "Grad" battery crews have 2 rifles among the whole crew is just gob stopping for me.

[ijuin 572]

It’s a sign of how desperate they are for resources. In WWII they were so short on weapons that infantry were sent into battle with the expectation that they would scavenge weapons from fallen soldiers on the battlefield, and that they would be completely unarmed until they could find one.

[Darth Fluffy 302]

2 hours ago, mlooney said:

I was a technician in an air defense fire control area.  A less "grunt" MOS in combat arms you aren't going to find.  I was issued a rifle, and, in theory, my rifle had 5 magazines in storage.  I can't conceive of a military unit, regardless of where they are with relation to the front lines, not having personal weapons and ammo.  The fact that Russian "Grad" battery crews have 2 rifles among the whole crew is just gob stopping for me.

USAF bases in Vietnam were notorious for the personnel not having arms. USAF still had issues with this when I was in, and I'd imagine that the US Navy has similar issues. The Army is far more practical in this regard.

If the Russian army is more focused on unit roles, I can see them falling into this.

I like the US Marines approach; everyone is a Marine first. Everyone qualifies with firearms. Everyone.

[mlooney 3,417]

18 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

If the Russian army is more focused on unit roles, I can see them falling into this.

"Grad" MRL system have a max range of about 20km, often deployed closer  That's close enough to the front line as to need personal weapons.  The PRC has a version that will reach ~30 KM.

https://odin.tradoc.army.mil/WEG/Asset/BM-21_"Grad"_Russian_122mm_Multiple_Rocket_Launcher_(MRL)

[Darth Fluffy 302]

4 hours ago, mlooney said:

"Grad" MRL system have a max range of about 20km, often deployed closer  That's close enough to the front line as to need personal weapons.  The PRC has a version that will reach ~30 KM.

https://odin.tradoc.army.mil/WEG/Asset/BM-21_"Grad"_Russian_122mm_Multiple_Rocket_Launcher_(MRL)

You saw my take on it. Everyone in the military should at least have the training and have access when necessary, and I agree, 20 km is pretty damned close. About twelve miles, for those of us who don't think in metric. That's a short commute.

[mlooney 3,417]

It's a completely alien concept for me to not have individual weapons.  Given the Russian's habit of taking non infantry units and using them as assault infantry, they really don't have an excuse to not arm the whole unit.  Meh.  Keep doing weird ass things Russia, I want you to lose anyway.

[mlooney 3,417]

[The Old Hack 2,448]

On 7/18/2023 at 3:10 AM, mlooney said:

It's a completely alien concept for me to not have individual weapons.  Given the Russian's habit of taking non infantry units and using them as assault infantry, they really don't have an excuse to not arm the whole unit.  Meh.  Keep doing weird ass things Russia, I want you to lose anyway.

I was a paramedic in the Danish Army and even we were issued weapons. Granted, we were issued M-1 Garand rifles at a point in time where nearly everybody else received automatic weapons. Even so I would still take the M-1 over being completely unarmed. And it was a pretty damn good rifle. Still is, for that matter.

[ijuin 572]

As long as your requirements do not mandate “automatic fire mode” or “magazine capacity larger than eight rounds”, then it is still an excellent rifle. It was pretty much the top of the line until the end of the 1950s.