Political Discussion Thread (READ FIRST POST)

[mlooney 3,525]

Today in Ukrainian independents day.  Hopefully this is the last one with part of the country under occupation. 

[Darth Fluffy 323]

On 8/24/2024 at 9:48 AM, mlooney said:

I find it odd that it as advertised on NewsMax, which is farther to the right than Fox.

Apparently the MAGAts are embracing it.

 

On 8/24/2024 at 9:48 AM, mlooney said:

And from a slightly less disturbing source we have this

https://www.amazon.com/Generic-Trump-Topwater-Fishing-Lure/dp/B09PB3MZM8

That is pretty disturbing. It might be useful for catching these.

 

On 8/24/2024 at 9:48 AM, mlooney said:

Speaking of Trump and fish, there is this;

https://jonmcnaughton.com/patriotic/americana/teach-a-man-to-fish/

"I catch the biggest fish!"

Jon McNaughton looks like a real winner. <eye roll> Fact checking is just not his thing, is it?

 

I sort of believe everyone is entitled to an opinion, but the MAGAts are breaking that P.O.V. There's no excuse for an opinion if you refuse to even engage your brain. Watching them backpedal when Jordan Klepper interviews them and then points out, "Actually, Donald Trump did that . . ." <sigh>

I suppose I am at fault for expecting that there is intelligent life on Earth.

I think the Internet is much of the problem. The promise of the Internet was rapid exchange of knowledge, and indeed that is true. However with it is the rapid dissemination of disinformation. Peer review is a good thing, right? Well similarly, back in the day, barriers to publication meant views were vetted. Sure there might be a more or less raw opinion page in your paper, but articles were professionally written and edited. Now any clown can be an 'expert' or an echo box.

 

OBTW, Liz Cheney is a Rino for investigating Jan 6? Mitt Romney is a Rino for calling out Trump's lack of character? John McCain? Seriously, Fuck you, Jon McNaughton. The Lincoln Project is the heart and soul of the actual conservatives. Calling MAGAts 'Republicans' is just plain incorrect. Granted, they are usurpers, and have effective control of the Republican party, but they are neither actual conservatives, concerned with government overreach, nor moral conservatives, concerned with upholding the law. Kudos to the numerous actual Republican who have come out for Kamala Harris; as one pointed out, "This is not pro-Democrat, this is pro-patriotism".

But I would not call the MAGAts Rinos. To paraphrase Wolfgang Pauli, they are not even Rinos.

 

[mlooney 3,525]

You left out the 3rd branch of conservatives, foreign policy conservatives.  Their last hurrah was the neo-con movement of the late 90 early 2000.  We are not horribly concerned with internal to the US matters, but want a ah, robust, foreign and defense policy.  We ended the cold war.  That was a good thing.  On the down side we invaded Iraq, a not so good thing.

[Darth Fluffy 323]

1 hour ago, mlooney said:

You left out the 3rd branch of conservatives, foreign policy conservatives.  Their last hurrah was the neo-con movement of the late 90 early 2000.  We are not horribly concerned with internal to the US matters, but want a ah, robust, foreign and defense policy.  We ended the cold war.  That was a good thing.  On the down side we invaded Iraq, a not so good thing.

Granted that I did not write a multi-page dissertation. Let's examine this issue.

"We ended the cold war" - Why exactly the USSR let their captive states go is not unambiguous, our contribution appears to be that we competed sufficiently long to tire them out, especially economically. This was contributed to by all US administrations, conservative and liberal, for a very long time. Consider that the Vietnam conflict was escalated the most under LBJ. Perhaps the rapport between Reagan and Gorbachev was significant, it seems to be, but I am by no means certain. If you are citing a group that can claim "We ended the Cold War", could you be more specific?

Yes, that was a good thing. The Soviets as much as anyone get a good bit of the credit. Perhaps it had to do with Brezhnev's generation dying off.

"On the down side we invaded Iraq, a not so good thing." - I agree, we overuse our military prowess for stupid reasons. How does this favor Trump? The only related thing he was involved with was setting up a willy-nilly withdrawal from Afghanistan, which was a questionable place to be, but should have been let go in a much more orderly fashion. Cutting deals with the Talibums did no one a favor.

I expect Kamala Harris would have a more coherent foreign policy. For one thing, she is not going to toady up to autocrats. Tim Walz is an excellent asset; having been deployed as an E-9, he should have an savvy perspective. Why would they not be a better choice?

[mlooney 3,525]

I wasn't aware that he made an offer to the muskrat.  Glad he had a brief moment of sanity
https://www.thewrap.com/donald-trump-elon-musk-cabinet-role-cant/

[mlooney 3,525]

Rule one about doing crime. Don't write down your crimes

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2024/08/26/marine-vet-arrested-after-self-publishing-book-about-storming-us-capitol-jan-6.html

[The Old Hack 2,474]

On 8/28/2024 at 4:02 PM, mlooney said:

Rule one about doing crime. Don't write down your crimes

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2024/08/26/marine-vet-arrested-after-self-publishing-book-about-storming-us-capitol-jan-6.html

This is like Kristi Noem proudly writing in her book of how she shot a puppy for not being grown up and subsequently shot a 'dangerous' goat but failed to kill it and then left it behind in horrible pain because she was out of ammo. As Jennifer Rubin of the Washington Post puts it, "This crowd blows themselves up more often than Wile E. Coyote."

Incidentally, seeing that worthless toupéed snake oil salesman stand grinning next to a tombstone in Arlington while making a thumbs up gesture is more or less the most perfect visual image of his utter contempt for and lack of comprehension of the Armed Forces imaginable. Just the notion of using Arlington for a photo op is already so grotesque as to boggle the mind, but of course the deranged orange howler baboon always has to make things even worse.

[Darth Fluffy 323]

8 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

This is like Kristi Noem proudly writing in her book of how she shot a puppy for not being grown up and subsequently shot a 'dangerous' goat but failed to kill it and then left it behind in horrible pain because she was out of ammo. As Jennifer Rubin of the Washington Post puts it, "This crowd blows themselves up more often than Wile E. Coyote."

Incidentally, seeing that worthless toupéed snake oil salesman stand grinning next to a tombstone in Arlington while making a thumbs up gesture is more or less the most perfect visual image of his utter contempt for and lack of comprehension of the Armed Forces imaginable. Just the notion of using Arlington for a photo op is already so grotesque as to boggle the mind, but of course the deranged orange howler baboon always has to make things even worse.

Now, now, that is not entirely fair. Howler baboons fill a natural niche in nature, and cannot help that they are like the Mango Mayhem Man.

 

[The Old Hack 2,474]

On 8/29/2024 at 10:30 PM, The Old Hack said:

Just the notion of using Arlington for a photo op is already so grotesque as to boggle the mind, but of course the deranged orange howler baboon always has to make things even worse.

He is currently claiming that everything that happened was due to Joe Biden setting him up for it. I wonder if he realizes that he is loudly proclaiming that Joe Biden can play him like a fiddle.

[Darth Fluffy 323]

On 8/29/2024 at 4:30 PM, The Old Hack said:

This is like Kristi Noem proudly writing in her book of how she shot a puppy for not being grown up and subsequently shot a 'dangerous' goat but failed to kill it and then left it behind in horrible pain because she was out of ammo. As Jennifer Rubin of the Washington Post puts it, "This crowd blows themselves up more often than Wile E. Coyote."

Incidentally, seeing that worthless toupéed snake oil salesman stand grinning next to a tombstone in Arlington while making a thumbs up gesture is more or less the most perfect visual image of his utter contempt for and lack of comprehension of the Armed Forces imaginable. Just the notion of using Arlington for a photo op is already so grotesque as to boggle the mind, but of course the deranged orange howler baboon always has to make things even worse.

Unlike almost everything else he has done, this is gaining traction, and he is loosing veteran vote en masse. Veterans favoring Kamala Harris after this stunt, 80%, women veterans, 90%, disabled veterans (who he has shown disrespect to for over a decade now) over 99% favoring Kamala Harris.

His (and Vance's) attacks aren't sticking either. Kamala Harris and Tim Walz are articulate, positive, inclusive, smart, and each has a track record. (So does Trump; I meant a good one, not his horrid legacy.)

I am hopeful, but so much is at stake, I'm still nervous.

[mlooney 3,525]

Laughing at Russia's red lines: a new red line? 

https://www.reuters.com/world/lavrov-warns-us-not-mock-russias-red-lines-2024-09-04/

[ijuin 586]

Unfortunately, the Putin administration has cried “wolf” so much that we can no longer tell when they are serious.

[mlooney 3,525]

The more they claim "red lines" and don't do any thing about them, the more some people in western intelligence agencies think they really don't have nukes any more.  Not enough to ignore the possibility, but enough to make people go hmmm.

[ijuin 586]

It’s not that they don’t have nukes—it’s that they know damn well that if they use them on cities, the rest of the nuclear powers will decide that they are too dangerous to be allowed to continue living, and will annihilate the Russian government.

[mlooney 3,525]

I suspect that the Will Be Bad for Russia even if they use tactical nukes on military targets.

[Darth Fluffy 323]

3 hours ago, mlooney said:

I suspect that the Will Be Bad for Russia even if they use tactical nukes on military targets.

I believe that has been specifically pointed out to them in detail.

[mlooney 3,525]

27 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

I believe that has been specifically pointed out to them in detail.

Not quite exactly at ministerial level, but the idea that them using nukes would be a bad thing has been mentioned by several governments, some of which have nukes.  France (!) has been the most vocal about it.

[ijuin 586]

4 hours ago, mlooney said:

I suspect that the Will Be Bad for Russia even if they use tactical nukes on military targets.

Bad for them, yes, but using them on civilian centers will mean that there will no longer be a Russia when the rest of the world is through with them.

[mlooney 3,525]

10 minutes ago, ijuin said:

Bad for them, yes, but using them on civilian centers will mean that there will no longer be a Russia when the rest of the world is through with them.

Oh, there will still be a Russia.  Siberian tribes will be in charge, but there will still be "Russia".  Just not a populated as it was.

[ijuin 586]

5 minutes ago, mlooney said:

Oh, there will still be a Russia.  Siberian tribes will be in charge, but there will still be "Russia".  Just not a populated as it was.

Oh the land will be there, and many of the people, but the political entity known as the Russian Socialist Federal Republic will have ceased to exist, at best being replaced by a government constructed by the occupying forces, as the German Federal Republic was created to replace the Third Reich.

[Darth Fluffy 323]

8 hours ago, mlooney said:

Not quite exactly at ministerial level, but the idea that them using nukes would be a bad thing has been mentioned by several governments, some of which have nukes.  France (!) has been the most vocal about it.

Apparently, the US had a recent (after the initial Kursk invasion) discussion with Russian dignitaries to the effect of, "If you use a tactical nuke, this will be our response. If you use a second one, this will be our escalation. If you use a third, this will be our further escalation." The podcast segment did not go into further detail; it boiled down to, "If you don't want the US directly involved in your conflict, don't use nukes, even tactical nukes."

It is likely that our current administration sees the use of nukes as having too much potential to escalate into a global nuclear conflict, enough so that making it clear that we would get involved might give the Russians reason to think so, too.

It was also pointed out that tactical nukes in the Kursk region would not be particularly effective. The Ukrainian forces are too disperse, Russia would be nuking its own territory, and the prevailing winds would blow the fallout toward the remainder of Russia. Y'know, like they need even more trouble.

I find it unbelievable that Putin has the brass balls to not go to the peace table at this point. St. Petersburg and Moscow are both within range of Ukrainian strikes.

I'm not sure i buy the 'Russia is the second strongest military in Russia' thing, the Ukraine has a manpower limit, but they are doing disproportionately well. They saw themselves as closely aligned with Russia after the initial split; all of the current mutual hostility is entirely on Putin.

[The Old Hack 2,474]

3 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

I find it unbelievable that Putin has the brass balls to not go to the peace table at this point. St. Petersburg and Moscow are both within range of Ukrainian strikes.

It is not that he has brass balls. It is more that he is terrified of the consequences if he should go to the peace table. His oilgarchs are not best pleased as it is; if he shows 'lack of resolve' they will descend on him like a school of rabid piranha. So he keeps doubling down, hoping that no-one will notice that he is running out of chips to gamble with.

[mlooney 3,525]

Putin knows that, right now, if he goes to a peace table, window's gravitational pull will be very strong around him.

[Darth Fluffy 323]

21 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

It is not that he has brass balls. It is more that he is terrified of the consequences if he should go to the peace table. His oilgarchs are not best pleased as it is; if he shows 'lack of resolve' they will descend on him like a school of rabid piranha. So he keeps doubling down, hoping that no-one will notice that he is running out of chips to gamble with.

 

20 hours ago, mlooney said:

Putin knows that, right now, if he goes to a peace table, window's gravitational pull will be very strong around him.

 

Good points. Putin is out of options. Ukraine is making their own cruise missile style drones, and they are within range of Moscow and St. Petersburg.  Putin should soon be feeling the gravity of the situation.

[Pharaoh RutinTutin 1,612]

 

If for any reason Putin is no longer able lead, would anyone who has a shot at seizing the top seat be any better?