Story Monday, June 10, 2018

[Tom Sewell 268]

http://egscomics.com/comic/party-023

Still gym, not recess.

[hkmaly 490]

Shouldn't the people who were GIVING the bribes be fat cats? Of course, transforming the politicians is more visible.

Also, I'm pretty sure that unlike the mouse fantasy OR the teleport-to-roof, THIS one would be doable by Rhoda and Catalina working together. Well, one parliament at a time, not globally.

But obviously that's something Ashley can't know yet.

... soo, this is gym class? It's true Ashley looks like doing some exercise in first panel of previous strip, but Lisa doesn't.

[Tom Sewell 268]

13 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Shouldn't the people who were GIVING the bribes be fat cats? Of course, transforming the politicians is more visible.

It's the really fat cats who bribe the merely heavy cats in every universe.

I actually don't recall seeing any cartoons showing robber barons as cats from the great age of corruption between the American Civil War and the early 20th century. I've seen a lot portraying them as literal moneybags, with just heads sticking out of the necks of the bags.

13 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

... soo, this is gym class? It's true Ashley looks like doing some exercise in first panel of previous strip, but Lisa doesn't.

Ashley's done soccer and ballet, both of which require disciplined training to be any good. Liz resents any arbitrary restraints, although from the body Dan has given her, she should be active in some ways. I could see her trying martial arts but not staying with any dojo for very long unless she found an exceptional sensei.

What Ashley is doing in that panel is stretching. I haven't done that since the nineties; not sure if it's still recommended before exercise.

Edited June 10, 2019 by Tom Sewell
Stretching

[hkmaly 490]

19 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

32 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Shouldn't the people who were GIVING the bribes be fat cats? Of course, transforming the politicians is more visible.

It's the really fat cats who bribe the merely heavy cats in every universe.

I actually don't recall seeing any cartoons showing robber barons as cats from the great age of corruption between the American Civil War and the early 20th century. I've seen a lot portraying them as literal moneybags, with just heads sticking out of the necks of the bags

Well, not even the images on that article looks particularly cat-like. All cartoons I saw shows them just fat. But I only started watching political cartoons in this millennia ...

19 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

32 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

... soo, this is gym class? It's true Ashley looks like doing some exercise in first panel of previous strip, but Lisa doesn't.

Ashley's done soccer and ballet, both of which require disciplined training to be any good. Liz resents any arbitrary restraints, although from the body Dan has given her, she should be active in some ways. I could see her trying martial arts but not staying with any dojo for very long unless she found an exceptional sensei.

I would imagine Liz spends few lessons somewhere, then get annoyed with the teacher ... and goes to gym on her own. Or maybe she gets inspiration from youtube.

It's true that with her look at life no exercise at all seems most likely, but it's also true even at her age no exercise would mean worse shaped body.

19 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

What Ashley is doing in that panel is stretching. I haven't done that since the nineties; not sure if it's still recommended before exercise.

Well I'm still doing it but I'm not sure when was the last time someone recommended it to me. It might've been the nineties.

Wait ... "before exercise" ... "line up" ... are they in line before actual exercise? Like, do they have just one pommel horse in class so everyone takes turns jumping over it?

(Ok, that was joke: I know it's not that they can't afford more horses, it's because they can't afford more teachers and for safety reasons teacher must observe the person on horse. It's still funny how much time one spends by waiting in gym classes like that.)

[Tom Sewell 268]

4 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Well, not even the images on that article looks particularly cat-like. All cartoons I saw shows them just fat. But I only started watching political cartoons in this millennia ...

You're missing out on a lot. Search for cartoons about Boss Tweed, Tammany Hall. Jay Gould, J.P. Morgan (he owned the Titanic but decided not to sail on it). I don't know much about European financial and political scandals, but I imagine they've inspired some memorable cartoons.

[hkmaly 490]

28 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

43 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Well, not even the images on that article looks particularly cat-like. All cartoons I saw shows them just fat. But I only started watching political cartoons in this millennia ...

You're missing out on a lot. Search for cartoons about Boss Tweed, Tammany Hall. Jay Gould, J.P. Morgan (he owned the Titanic but decided not to sail on it). I don't know much about European financial and political scandals, but I imagine they've inspired some memorable cartoons.

I didn't miss J.P. Morgan There was enough about him in 2008:

[Tom Sewell 268]

1 minute ago, hkmaly said:

I didn't miss J.P. Morgan There was enough about him in 2008:

JP Morgan died in 1913, but his bank corrupts onward into the 21st century.

[hkmaly 490]

2 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

5 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

I didn't miss J.P. Morgan There was enough about him in 2008:

JP Morgan died in 1913, but his bank corrupts onward into the 21st century.

1913? Was not sailing on Titanic worth it for him?

But yes, I do realize the cartoons were about the bank, not the person.

[Tom Sewell 268]

3 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

But yes, I do realize the cartoons were about the bank, not the person.

I was thinking that this was a more recent result for "JP Morgan scandal" (and I wasn't aware of this particular one, shame on me.)

Getting a bit closer to EGS stuff, I don't remember anyone in EGS mentioning political corruption until Liz recounts Ashley's fantasy in Panel 2. For Dan, a big step.

[Pharaoh RutinTutin 1,619]

Didn't Grace already attempt the "Fat Cat" transformation, only to give it up when it failed to make her rich?

[Tom Sewell 268]

3 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Didn't Grace already attempt the "Fat Cat" transformation, only to give it up when it failed to make her rich?

But not in canon, alas.

[Scotty 1,061]

6 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

I actually don't recall seeing any cartoons showing robber barons as cats from the great age of corruption between the American Civil War and the early 20th century. I've seen a lot portraying them as literal moneybags, with just heads sticking out of the necks of the bags.

There is this particular Fat Cat (from Chip n' Dales Rescue Rangers):

5 hours ago, hkmaly said:

It's true that with her look at life no exercise at all seems most likely, but it's also true even at her age no exercise would mean worse shaped body.

It's possible that she either does light exercise, or just doesn't bother stretching, I'd never once seen students in gym class when I was in high school go through a stretching routine. I would imagine Nanase is another person that routinely stretches before athletic activity, and Elliot/Ellen probably do too because it'd have been something they learned through martial arts training.

5 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Getting a bit closer to EGS stuff, I don't remember anyone in EGS mentioning political corruption until Liz recounts Ashley's fantasy in Panel 2. For Dan, a big step.

It was pointed out in Goonmanji 2, and while that story was noncanon, this canon story confirms that Ashley writes about corrupt politicians getting the tables turned on them.

Though it's true that Dan hasn't gotten too political in EGS, like he's never written any mention of current events, though if we go with the "after Star Trek 2009 but before The Force Awakens" as the timeframe, then Obama is probably president IF we assume he'd use comparable politics.

[Scotty 1,061]

Just now, Tom Sewell said:

Just now, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Didn't Grace already attempt the "Fat Cat" transformation, only to give it up when it failed to make her rich?

But not in canon, alas.

It was part of Q&A#6.

[Tom Sewell 268]

Looking over this comic and Friday's again, I see similarities between it and Ellen's sincere and totally wrong take on what's bothering Grace in The Secret of Sam. Liz is making some pretty good guesses from what she knows about Ashley, but without knowing the big secrets Ashley hasn't told her about, Liz is playing in the wrong ballpark. But while Grace had no chance of losing Ellen's friendship, Ashley could lose Liz' friendship over this if it goes on long enough.

Ashley does have a family, and presumably they aren't in on The Secret. Yet Ashley's life seems to be going on normally, and she went on a third date with Elliot despite coming home far too late after the second one. This doesn't exactly jive with her mom making her wear a winter jacket before going on her first date with Elliot.

Dan could probably solve the problem between Ashley and Liz by having Ashley spill the beans, but Ashley is a notable non-bean-spiller.

Edited June 10, 2019 by Tom Sewell
clarification

[Scotty 1,061]

Just now, Tom Sewell said:

Looking over this comic and Friday's again, I see similarities between it and Ellen's sincere and totally wrong take on what's bothering Grace in The Secret of Sam. Liz is making some pretty good guesses from what she knows about Ashley, but without knowing the big secrets Ashley hasn't told her about, Liz is playing in the wrong ballpark. But while Grace had no chance of losing Ellen's friendship, Ashley does.

I don't think Ashley's risking losing her friendship with Liz by keeping those secrets, might even be the opposite, Liz has been tolerant of Ashley's hobby, she says it's weird, but she's also admitted to having fantasies so she's not going to tell Ashley to stop writing about them, and she's even trying to encourage Ashley into accepting it and not letting other people tell her otherwise. I do wonder how Liz would feel if she found out that Ashley's been hiding the fact that she's gotten into the realm of actual magic and could learn to do most of the stuff she's fantasized about. I don't think knowing she's kept that secret would itself end the friendship with Liz, but I unsure how Liz would react to the Ashley having magic. Would she find it cool, or would she be afraid of it?

Just now, Tom Sewell said:

Ashley does have a family, and presumably they aren't in on The Secret. Yet Ashley's life seems to be going on normally, and she went on a third date with Elliot despite coming home far too late after the second one. This doesn't exactly jive with her mom making her wear a winter jacket before going on her first date with Elliot.

It really depends on how late they actually were, the whole incident (from Ashley arriving at Elliot's to being driven back home from the paranormal division facility after talking to Arthur) might have occurred within the time they would have spent on their date and Ashley's parents didn't know there was anything wrong. Or there was a coverstory made up to account for why she was late.

Of course, if Ashley's parents watch the news, they would have heard about what happened on Ashley's first date and should have been given reason to suspect that there's something odd about Elliot. But then that must have been covered up somehow as well.

[Tom Sewell 268]

5 minutes ago, Scotty said:

unsure how Liz would react to the Ashley having magic. Would she find it cool, or would she be afraid of it?

There isn't any point in canon where Liz has witnessed magic. During the Return of the Goo in Sister, she was smoking on the roof. Dan could always retcon a scene where she did, but he doesn't do that too often.

Judging from how she continued to sit and smoke during Goo II while other students were fleeing and screaming past her, I think Liz might not be panicked by magic.

[Scotty 1,061]

Just now, Tom Sewell said:

There isn't any point in canon where Liz has witnessed magic. During the Return of the Goo in Sister, she was smoking on the roof. Dan could always retcon a scene where she did, but he doesn't do that too often.

That's why I'm unsure of how Liz would react, she hasn't had a "half the school has seen you floating around!" moment yet.

[mlooney 3,594]

14 minutes ago, Scotty said:

That's why I'm unsure of how Liz would react, she hasn't had a "half the school has seen you floating around!" moment yet.

Just in case any one is confused, Liz doesn't go to Nanase school, so the magic level she has been exposed to is limited to the mayhem that Tedd and Elliot have generated.  Which, granted, is a fairly high level.  Elliot was in gym clothes the first time a griffin showed up and talked to him, so it's possible that most of the school saw that.

[Scotty 1,061]

Just now, mlooney said:

Just in case any one is confused, Liz doesn't go to Nanase school, so the magic level she has been exposed to is limited to the mayhem that Tedd and Elliot have generated.  Which, granted, is a fairly high level.  Elliot was in gym clothes the first time a griffin showed up and talked to him, so it's possible that most of the school saw that.

I thought I was clear enough that I was implying that we haven't seen any evidence to suggest that Liz is aware of magic actually existing, sure she'd know about both goo incidents but those aren't necessarily attributed to magic (I mean they probably are considering who sent them, but the school probably believes they were a science experiment gone bad) and there's no reason to believe she saw Elliot being approached by the griffin because they are likely in separate classes.

It's possible though, considering all that's been televised (creepy girl,evil monkey, Cheerleadra's first appearance, Cheerleadra's second appearance+Shadow guy and bulldog dragon+Arthur's press statement, giant boar, griffin disturbance at the mall+Cheerleadra's third appearance and the vampire attack at the mall) she likely figures there's more going on but that doesn't mean she'd react positively to Ashley telling her everything.

[Tom Sewell 268]

Ashley imagines she's bringing out her wand in the second panel of last Wednesday's comic. But in the fourth panel of this comic near the end of the Epilogs section of Sister 3, Ashley is holding her wand in reality. She didn't leave it behind with Arthur J. Arthur. Ashley took Kevin home. Now the Wednesday panel is Ashley's imagination, but it looks like she's imagining her wand coming out of her right sleeve. Maybe Kevin really was in her left sleeve in the first panel. Whether or not he was, if Ashley did bring Kevin to school today, he's probably in her locker until the end of gym class...

Picture Kevin falling out of Ashley's locker after gym class. Liz picks Kevin up from the floor and as Liz hands him to Ashley, he thanks Liz.

[Don Edwards 561]

12 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

I actually don't recall seeing any cartoons showing robber barons as cats from the great age of corruption between the American Civil War and the early 20th century.

The webcomic Lackadaisy, I think has a fairly high chance of such a depiction. I could never get into the story though.

[Tom Sewell 268]

10 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:

The webcomic Lackadaisy, I think has a fairly high chance of such a depiction. I could never get into the story though.

I was referring to political cartoons actually from that era, like this one from Theodore Roosevelt's Presidency:

https://www.jerusalemhouseministries.net/image/political-cartoon-practice/35-best-illustrations-comedy-satire-art-images-on

Not a cat, but certainly fat.

[Pharaoh RutinTutin 1,619]

The 19th Century political cartoons weren't all grossly exaggerated.

William M "Boss" Tweed of New York's infamous Tammany Hall political machine tried to flee the country using a false name.  He was stopped by a customs agent in Spain who recognized Tweed from a Thomas Nast cartoon.

[hkmaly 490]

10 hours ago, Scotty said:

There is this particular Fat Cat (from Chip n' Dales Rescue Rangers):

I'm pretty sure Chip n' Dales Rescue Rangers were not supposed to be political cartoon.

9 hours ago, Scotty said:

I don't think Ashley's risking losing her friendship with Liz by keeping those secrets, might even be the opposite

It's not opposite if there is no contraindication. Just because you think Ashley would risk losing her friendship with Liz by telling her doesn't mean she doesn't risk it by keeping the secret.

9 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

9 hours ago, Scotty said:

unsure how Liz would react to the Ashley having magic. Would she find it cool, or would she be afraid of it?

There isn't any point in canon where Liz has witnessed magic. During the Return of the Goo in Sister, she was smoking on the roof. Dan could always retcon a scene where she did, but he doesn't do that too often.

Judging from how she continued to sit and smoke during Goo II while other students were fleeing and screaming past her, I think Liz might not be panicked by magic.

Yes, Liz isn't likely to panic. Even not taking into account she's likely marked by Pandora, I don't think she would see Ashley getting magic as problem. However ... no matter if Ashley tells her she has magic or not, as long as they can't talk freely, their friendship might still get worse.

9 hours ago, Scotty said:

10 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Ashley does have a family, and presumably they aren't in on The Secret. Yet Ashley's life seems to be going on normally, and she went on a third date with Elliot despite coming home far too late after the second one. This doesn't exactly jive with her mom making her wear a winter jacket before going on her first date with Elliot.

It really depends on how late they actually were, the whole incident (from Ashley arriving at Elliot's to being driven back home from the paranormal division facility after talking to Arthur) might have occurred within the time they would have spent on their date and Ashley's parents didn't know there was anything wrong. Or there was a coverstory made up to account for why she was late.

Of course, if Ashley's parents watch the news, they would have heard about what happened on Ashley's first date and should have been given reason to suspect that there's something odd about Elliot. But then that must have been covered up somehow as well.

I suspect that showing Cheerleadra elsewhere to clear Elliot was ONLY covering they did. First, DGB under Arthur basically gave up on covering stuff like this. Second, it would be VERY hard to cover.

That means either Ashley's parents don't watch the news or they were told the official version - that Cheerleadra is not Elliot etc - and are somehow ok with Ashley being near the griffins during her supposed date with Elliot ... who was not seen around ...

Now, for the second incident, there wasn't any news about it, so thinking up something would be easier. But there is good point that we don't know how long the date was expected to take. Maybe she was expected to sleep there? We saw Dunkels reactions, but not Ashley's parents reactions ...

7 hours ago, Scotty said:

It's possible though, considering all that's been televised (creepy girl,evil monkey, Cheerleadra's first appearance, Cheerleadra's second appearance+Shadow guy and bulldog dragon+Arthur's press statement, giant boar, griffin disturbance at the mall+Cheerleadra's third appearance and the vampire attack at the mall) she likely figures there's more going on but that doesn't mean she'd react positively to Ashley telling her everything.

If she watches the news at all - which, granted, she may not ; she probably doesn't watch television with her attitude - she IS aware magic is real. That doesn't mean she realizes just how close to magic she is.

6 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Ashley imagines she's bringing out her wand in the second panel of last Wednesday's comic. But in the fourth panel of this comic near the end of the Epilogs section of Sister 3, Ashley is holding her wand in reality. She didn't leave it behind with Arthur J. Arthur. Ashley took Kevin home. Now the Wednesday panel is Ashley's imagination, but it looks like she's imagining her wand coming out of her right sleeve. Maybe Kevin really was in her left sleeve in the first panel. Whether or not he was, if Ashley did bring Kevin to school today, he's probably in her locker until the end of gym class...

Picture Kevin falling out of Ashley's locker after gym class. Liz picks Kevin up from the floor and as Liz hands him to Ashley, he thanks Liz.

This sort of troubles is exactly reason why she would likely NOT be taking Kevin to school. Also, we can't be sure she took him HOME. It's possible she left it with Tedd.

... also, unless she has some pocket in sleeves or something, she would likely have Kevin in backpack instead of sleeves even if she DID took it to school.

18 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

18 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Well, not even the images on that article looks particularly cat-like. All cartoons I saw shows them just fat. But I only started watching political cartoons in this millennia ...

You're missing out on a lot. Search for cartoons about Boss Tweed, Tammany Hall. Jay Gould, J.P. Morgan (he owned the Titanic but decided not to sail on it). I don't know much about European financial and political scandals, but I imagine they've inspired some memorable cartoons.

Thinking about it, I WAS actually seeing some LOCAL political cartoons before that, the deadtree version of them. I only started following them ONLINE this millennia, and while it's supposed to be "world" ones it's produced in US. I'm probably getting most of my news by looking what's new in those cartoons and then searching for the news behind it if it looks interesting.

 

[Scotty 1,061]

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

I'm pretty sure Chip n' Dales Rescue Rangers were not supposed to be political cartoon.

Not directly, but Fat Cat was the stereotypical "wealthy but must have more" character which can be applied to people in any position of power.

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

It's not opposite if there is no contraindication. Just because you think Ashley would risk losing her friendship with Liz by telling her doesn't mean she doesn't risk it by keeping the secret.

If Ashley doesn't tell Liz, then the only way it would risk losing her friendship is if Liz found out, and then it still really depends on how Liz would react to this knew knowledge about Ashley, she could either understand why Ashley would keep that secret, or be scared of what Ashley's gotten herself into.

Right now it seems better to just let Liz make the assumption that Ashley's just being insecure about herself, which isn't actually a lie and what she's saying does make sense to a degree, like I'm pretty sure she's right that if Elliot can't accept her at her weirdest, then he doesn't deserve her, but let's face it, considering the company he keeps, I don't think Ashley's weirdness will phase him.

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

However ... no matter if Ashley tells her she has magic or not, as long as they can't talk freely, their friendship might still get worse.

I still don't see how their friendship is strained, I see Liz as being concerned about her friend's wellbeing, not "If you won't tell me what's wrong, I don't want to talk to you anymore!", I don't think Liz is like that at all, yeah she was disappointed when Ashley initially didn't want to talk about it, but now Ashley's kinda talked about it, in a way that doesn't out anyone and, while Liz still seems suspicious of Elliot, it's more of a "if he's as good as you say he is, he shouldn't be turned off by your fantasies" rather than "he better not be turning out like Tom did!" and she seems satisfied that she got what she did out of Ashley and was able to give some advice on it, I think that's what matters.

Besides, if it did turn out that Liz was marked and knew about it, then she'd be hypocritical to expect Ashley to tell her things if she's not willing to share her secrets.

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

That means either Ashley's parents don't watch the news or they were told the official version - that Cheerleadra is not Elliot etc - and are somehow ok with Ashley being near the griffins during her supposed date with Elliot ... who was not seen around ...

There was also this cover story that Elliot and Ashley decided on, of course then there'd be the question of "who brought you home?"

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Now, for the second incident, there wasn't any news about it, so thinking up something would be easier. But there is good point that we don't know how long the date was expected to take. Maybe she was expected to sleep there? We saw Dunkels reactions, but not Ashley's parents reactions ...

If Ashley got home at a decent time, then there'd be no reason to expect she was involved in what happened at the mall that time. And she doesn't have to be sleeping over for Elliot's parents to have to worry about them doing anything, they were heading out themselves and Elliot and Ashley would have been alone in the house for a few hours, that's enough reason for them to give Elliot that lecture.

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

This sort of troubles is exactly reason why she would likely NOT be taking Kevin to school. Also, we can't be sure she took him HOME. It's possible she left it with Tedd.

She hasn't been to Tedd's house yet, and I don't think Elliot would have taken it to him, Arthur said Kevin would hide from people Ashley hasn't introduced him to, exactly what "hide" means could range from acting like an inanimate toy wand, to being invisible. I want to believe that the "montage" we see is what takes place on the Saturday after everything that happened, like the majority of what we saw in the epilogue happened Saturday morning and the montage was stuff that happened in the afternoon. Well Ellen's meeting with Charlotte probably also took place in the afternoon, and then Ellen went to Tedd's to get that watch, Sarah would have gone to Tedd's right after getting that text, gone back home after getting Adrian's phone number and address from Grace, called him then gone over after lunch, Elliot talking to Greg could have happened at any time during the day really and he'd hit the punching bag after that, Susan would have spent the morning laying on her bed, probably even past lunch, then called Diane who was in the middle of a haircut and asked about seeing a movie which would likely occur late afternoon/evening. All the while, Ashley would be at home going over what happened the night before and contemplating the idea of being a wizard.