Discussion of Military, real or fictional

[The Old Hack 2,448]

12 hours ago, mlooney said:

The T-14 is still a parade only tank.

Still, with that sort of protection and armament it should be able to handle just about anything a parade can throw at it.

[mlooney 3,417]

5 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

Still, with that sort of protection and armament it should be able to handle just about anything a parade can throw at it.

You say that, but one broke down during their first parade.  They blamed it on driver error, but it took 30+ minutes to get it going again.

[Darth Fluffy 302]

Good thing they have those T-34s to fall back on.

[The Old Hack 2,448]

5 hours ago, mlooney said:

You say that, but one broke down during their first parade.  They blamed it on driver error, but it took 30+ minutes to get it going again.

That was the tank itself, not the parade. I was talking about direct attacks on it, like throwing flower petals or confetti at it. It should be able to deal with that.

Well, as long as they only hit the front glacis. If they hit it in the side or (God forbid) the rear, it might be in trouble.

[Pharaoh RutinTutin 1,586]

 

Next time they should follow Passadena Rose Parade rules where everything must be made from flowers in the first place.

 

[The Old Hack 2,448]

So, to brighten our day a little through some humour at Putin's expense:

" The war has not ended because Ukraine insists on defending itself. "
-- Darth Putin

from the comments:
"How dare they not just let his shitty old tanks run over them"
"To be fair, the T-14 is a shitty new tank. Also he cannot honestly blame the Ukrainians for not letting it overrun them. It usually breaks down quite handily on its own before it even reaches them."
"The Russian armoured divisions are mobile junkyards."
"You take that back! The T-14 isn't mobile!"
"Our attack plans did not take into account encountering actual resistance. I remain a master strategist."

[Don Edwards 548]

Well, if Putin really believes that Ukraine is part of Russia (even though his logic better supports the notion that Russia is part of Ukraine), then in his mind it's improper for Ukraine to defend itself from Russia.

Not that many people care that much about what's in his mind, given that he himself apparently isn't.

[The Old Hack 2,448]

2 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

Well, if Putin really believes that Ukraine is part of Russia (even though his logic better supports the notion that Russia is part of Ukraine), then in his mind it's improper for Ukraine to defend itself from Russia.

Not that many people care that much about what's in his mind, given that he himself apparently isn't.

As far as I recall he started the war with four objectives in mind:

1. Preventing NATO expansion and causing it to further disunite
2. Impress the world with the power and capability of the Russian military
3. Increase Russian influence and presence on the world stage
4. Gaining more allies and demoralizing his enemies through decisive action

So far he is 0 for 4. I do not see that this is likely to change much for the better.

[mlooney 3,417]

On 8/4/2023 at 3:53 PM, The Old Hack said:

As far as I recall he started the war with four objectives in mind:

1. Preventing NATO expansion and causing it to further disunite

Instead he got 2 historically neutral nations to join NATO and the alliance it stronger than ever.  Double fail. 

[ijuin 572]

It’s like the Romulans attacking to try to keep the Vulcans, Andorians, and Tellarites divided—instead they ended up driving them to create a unified nation (the United Federation of Planets).

[Pharaoh RutinTutin 1,586]

 

17 minutes ago, ijuin said:

It’s like the Romulans attacking to try to keep the Vulcans, Andorians, and Tellarites divided

I thought the Russians were represented by the Klingons in Trek lore.  The Romulans were supposed to be China. 

 

[ijuin 572]

Well yes, but in terns of “causing the very international situation that you were seeking to prevent”, it fits.

[Darth Fluffy 302]

1 hour ago, ijuin said:

Well yes, but in terns of “causing the very international situation that you were seeking to prevent”, it fits.

It does, indeed. Russia has done far more to unite NATO than anyone else in recent memory. Of course, if not for Russia, we probably wouldn't need a NATO organization.

[The Old Hack 2,448]

2 hours ago, mlooney said:

Instead he got 2 historically neutral nations to join NATO and the alliance it stronger than ever.  Double fail. 

Quintuple fail if you count the three other failed objectives -- establishing the power of the Russian Army, increase Russia's international influence and solidify its position as a greater power.

[Don Edwards 548]

The power of the Russian Army is much more clearly and accurately established than was formerly the case.

(Also at a rather lower level.)

[The Old Hack 2,448]

1 hour ago, Don Edwards said:

The power of the Russian Army is much more clearly and accurately established than was formerly the case.

(Also at a rather lower level.)

I stand corrected. Putin's demonstration of the Russian Army's exact power was a resounding success! It merely did not provide the impression he had hoped for. Ah well.

[mlooney 3,417]

2 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

The power of the Russian Army is much more clearly and accurately established than was formerly the case.

(Also at a rather lower level.)

 

1 hour ago, The Old Hack said:

I stand corrected. Putin's demonstration of the Russian Army's exact power was a resounding success! It merely did not provide the impression he had hoped for. Ah well.

People that actually paid attention to the state of the Russian military weren't too surprised when the war went badly for Russia. The systematic corruption at all levels of the Russian military was and is, a major factor in the failing of the Russian military in Ukraine. 

[The Old Hack 2,448]

1 hour ago, mlooney said:

People that actually paid attention to the state of the Russian military weren't too surprised when the war went badly for Russia. The systematic corruption at all levels of the Russian military was and is, a major factor in the failing of the Russian military in Ukraine. 

The youtuber Perun has made some truly outstanding videos on the lamentable state of the Russian military. They are each quite long -- usually an hour or so each -- but very enlightening. Allow me to in particular recommend How Corruption Destroys Armies, How Lies Destroy Armies and How Politics Destroy Armies. In these he goes into detail of how a culture of corruption, political patronage and feuding as well as misrepresentation and outright lies has formed to, well, completely bootscrew the Russian military from top to bottom. Mind you, these three problems are of course not isolated to Russia. All nations have to deal with them. It's just that in Russia all three have grown systemic and endemic. Worse yet, they act as force multipliers for one another.

I myself had not kept up and I was astonished by merely scraping the surface of the troubles of the Russian invasion. One of the first things I heard was that they had not been able to keep the advance properly supplied and that alone almost made me fall out of my chair from shock. Keeping your army supplied is one of the most fundamental necessities if you want to win a war. Just the fact that they could not even do that was enough to tell me that something was a lot more rotten in Russia than in Denmark.

[ijuin 572]

Ah, the old “Our army will feed itself on what it steals from the conquered lands” gambit, usually thwarted by the classic “Scorched Earth” countermeasure.

[mlooney 3,417]

The Soviet and later Russian army has always had a tooth to tail ratio far greater than a NATO army.  But as the saying goes, amateurs discuss tactics, professionals discuss logistics. The Soviet/Russian army was, during the cold war, aimed at short massive wars.  "The Rhine in 7 days" being a classic "plan" of theirs.  The attack on Kyiv showed that they still thought they could do that, but failed in a major sorta way.

[The Old Hack 2,448]

3 hours ago, mlooney said:

The Soviet/Russian army was, during the cold war, aimed at short massive wars.  "The Rhine in 7 days" being a classic "plan" of theirs.  The attack on Kyiv showed that they still thought they could do that, but failed in a major sorta way.

It didn't work that well for them in the war of 1904-05 either.

[Darth Fluffy 302]

4 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

The youtuber Perun has made some truly outstanding videos on the lamentable state of the Russian military. They are each quite long -- usually an hour or so each -- but very enlightening. Allow me to in particular recommend How Corruption Destroys Armies, How Lies Destroy Armies and How Politics Destroy Armies. In these he goes into detail of how a culture of corruption, political patronage and feuding as well as misrepresentation and outright lies has formed to, well, completely bootscrew the Russian military from top to bottom. Mind you, these three problems are of course not isolated to Russia. All nations have to deal with them. It's just that in Russia all three have grown systemic and endemic. Worse yet, they act as force multipliers for one another.

I myself had not kept up and I was astonished by merely scraping the surface of the troubles of the Russian invasion. One of the first things I heard was that they had not been able to keep the advance properly supplied and that alone almost made me fall out of my chair from shock. Keeping your army supplied is one of the most fundamental necessities if you want to win a war. Just the fact that they could not even do that was enough to tell me that something was a lot more rotten in Russia than in Denmark.

Oh, it's definitely not just Russia. The US involvement in Vietnam was based on lies, and look how that went. We also struggle with pork barrel resource allocation that purchases things the military does not need at the expense of things it does need. And people die because of it.

[mlooney 3,417]

Latest Ruzzian seige system.

[Darth Fluffy 302]

Do the big empty wooden horse next.

[mlooney 3,417]

1 hour ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Do the big empty wooden horse next.

I suspect that Ukrainian forces would not take that in.  Now if it goes the other way, it's possible.