Discussion of Military, real or fictional

[Darth Fluffy 302]

1 hour ago, ijuin said:

My father was stationed at Shemya in 1970. It’s literally as remote as you can be while still being within the United States.

It is an island in the state of Alaska. In terms of mobility, for sure it's remote; you can't drive. There has been air service to parts of Alaska. From the Wiki article I don't think that's a current thing. You could go space available on a trip, since people rotate in and out, there are planes that land. Getting back on time space a is always dicey. And you could get to the island by boat, but I think neither the weather is favorable nor are their facilities that support marine activity.

From what I've heard, days of 50 mph wind (80 kph wind) are fairly common.

In terms of sheer distance from CONUS, we have territories in the Pacific. People tend to forget about them. And then there's research bases on Antarctica.

[ijuin 572]

The Antarctic bases are not on U.S. soil. The Pacific islands may be farther from the nearest other land, but are they as far from “civilization” (read: settlements of several thousand or more people) as Shemya?

As for marine activity my father said that they got a large cargo ship in every few months for bulk supplies (food, fuel, equipment, spare parts, etc.), and anything time-sensitive came in by air.

[Darth Fluffy 302]

8 minutes ago, ijuin said:

The Antarctic bases are not on U.S. soil. The Pacific islands may be farther from the nearest other land, but are they as far from “civilization” (read: settlements of several thousand or more people) as Shemya?

As for marine activity my father said that they got a large cargo ship in every few months for bulk supplies (food, fuel, equipment, spare parts, etc.), and anything time-sensitive came in by air.

What you are saying is true. I would call Shemya 'isolated' more so than remote. Even then there are outposts within the US that are more isolated. Ranger stations in the Rockies you can drive to or at least reach on horseback, most of the time, weather permitting, but hours away from anywhere, and no one close by, except your spouse if you have one. Bad reception (even worse as broadcasting has diminished), no cable, and Internet probably by virtue of being necessary for the job, thus likely beamed to your location, but imagine the same place back in the 1980s. Shemya is isolated, but it always has people and activities.

'On US soil' does not factor in to 'remote', not by definition. Yes, if that is how the question is framed.

 

 

[mlooney 3,417]

6 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Army Air Corps; it wasn't the Air Force until after the war

It was Army Air Forces from 41 on.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_Air_Forces

 

[ijuin 572]

3 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

 

'On US soil' does not factor in to 'remote', not by definition. Yes, if that is how the question is framed.

 

Well, I originally stated it as the most remote posting that was within the United States proper. (That is to say, ignoring legal fictions such as “US-owned facilities in foreign countries count as US soil”.)

[Don Edwards 548]

4 hours ago, ijuin said:

(That is to say, ignoring legal fictions such as “US-owned facilities in foreign countries count as US soil”.)

There can be some interesting legal fictions. For example, four rooms in an Ottawa hospital were part of the Netherlands - and not part of Canada - for a short time in January of 1943.

That legal fiction meant that when Princess Margriet was born in those rooms, she was not Canadian and officially did not have divided loyalties;  therefore she would be eligible to inherit the Dutch throne. (She still is - 8th in line according to Wikipedia; her oldest sister's son is the current monarch.)

[Darth Fluffy 302]

14 hours ago, mlooney said:

It was Army Air Forces from 41 on.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_Air_Forces

How did I not know this? I was in the USAF and had to take a History of the Air Force course.

So, looking at the timelines, The US Army Air Corps was never in WW II. The US Army Air Corp became the US Army Air Force in September 1941, we entered the war in December 1941.

My dad was never in the US Army Air Corp, his service was entirely within the US Army Air Force time frame.

Thanks for pointing this out.

[Darth Fluffy 302]

13 hours ago, ijuin said:

Well, I originally stated it as the most remote posting that was within the United States proper. (That is to say, ignoring legal fictions such as “US-owned facilities in foreign countries count as US soil”.)

True, you did say "within the US".

[Darth Fluffy 302]

8 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

There can be some interesting legal fictions. For example, four rooms in an Ottawa hospital were part of the Netherlands - and not part of Canada - for a short time in January of 1943.

That legal fiction meant that when Princess Margriet was born in those rooms, she was not Canadian and officially did not have divided loyalties;  therefore she would be eligible to inherit the Dutch throne. (She still is - 8th in line according to Wikipedia; her oldest sister's son is the current monarch.)

Every Embassy counts as a legal fiction, perhaps a bit less fictitious. Taking an embassy would be construed as an act of war.

[The Old Hack 2,448]

2 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Every Embassy counts as a legal fiction, perhaps a bit less fictitious. Taking an embassy would be construed as an act of war.

If Legal Eagle wrote fan fiction, would it count as legal fiction?

[mlooney 3,417]

4 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Every Embassy counts as a legal fiction, perhaps a bit less fictitious. Taking an embassy would be construed as an act of war.

Which is why I never understood fully the US's reaction to the Iran embassy take over.

[Darth Fluffy 302]

1 hour ago, mlooney said:

Which is why I never understood fully the US's reaction to the Iran embassy take over.

It seemed weak at the time. Bear in mind, we just came out of Vietnam.

[Darth Fluffy 302]

2 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

If Legal Eagle wrote fan fiction, would it count as legal fiction?

He's one of my favorite channels. Being a Dane, is his take on US law relatable?

[The Old Hack 2,448]

13 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

He's one of my favorite channels. Being a Dane, is his take on US law relatable?

Highly so! I find him endlessly fascinating. But this sort of finicky stuff is my jam so I may be an outlier

[mlooney 3,417]

19 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

It seemed weak at the time. Bear in mind, we just came out of Vietnam.

True. 

[mlooney 3,417]

[Darth Fluffy 302]

2 hours ago, mlooney said:

The Davy Crockett was a battlefield nuke. Toss one of those, and you've probably started WW III. Risk of escalation is probably why it's a 'was', not an 'is'. Apparently the handling for safety reasons was complex as well. Can you imagine if we still had those in the inventory, and one went missing and ended up in terrorist hands? Bear in mind, there's an huge supply of stupid people; fully half the worlds population is below average.

[mlooney 3,417]

14 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

The Davy Crockett was a battlefield nuke. Toss one of those, and you've probably started WW III. Risk of escalation is probably why it's a 'was', not an 'is'. Apparently the handling for safety reasons was complex as well. Can you imagine if we still had those in the inventory, and one went missing and ended up in terrorist hands? Bear in mind, there's an huge supply of stupid people; fully half the worlds population is below average.

Yes, I know.  Of course it's a sub kiloton warhead, so it might not trigger WWIII.  Wouldn't bet on it however.

[Pharaoh RutinTutin 1,586]

3 minutes ago, mlooney said:

 . . . it might not trigger WWIII. . .

Pretty much the unspoken subtext to everything in the Cold War.

[Darth Fluffy 302]

9 minutes ago, mlooney said:

Yes, I know.  Of course it's a sub kiloton warhead, so it might not trigger WWIII.  Wouldn't bet on it however.

The article sited the death radius from neutrons as greater than the blast radius; also said tanks would survive (but not the people inside).

[mlooney 3,417]

Just now, Darth Fluffy said:

The article sited the death radius from neutrons as greater than the blast radius; also said tanks would survive (but not the people inside).

That was sorta the point.  It was to stop company sized armor attacks.

 

[Darth Fluffy 302]

1 minute ago, mlooney said:

That was sorta the point.  It was to stop company sized armor attacks.

I've seen one (probably just the casing) at the Atomic Bomb Museum on Sandia Base, just south of Albuquerque, New Mexico. It's very similar to the bottom picture in the article, which is at The United States Army Ordinance Museum on Fort Lee, outside Petersburg, Virginia. Huh, that's not very far, I should drive there some weekend and see stuff.

[mlooney 3,417]

1 minute ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Fort Lee, outside Petersburg, Virginia.

Fort Gregg-Adams.  Not named after a traitor any more.

[The Old Hack 2,448]

On 6/11/2023 at 6:22 PM, mlooney said:

Fort Gregg-Adams.  Not named after a traitor any more.

Well, the traitors have promised that it will be renamed for a traitor if any of them manage to get into the WH.

[mlooney 3,417]

This is wrong on so many levels.