Political Discussion Thread (READ FIRST POST)

[mlooney 3,417]

I read that if convicted on all counts and given the max sentence Sirrah is on hook for 134 years, if to be served consecutively.  Which, to be honest, isn't likely to happen, but a man can dream.   

[Darth Fluffy 302]

9 minutes ago, mlooney said:

I read that if convicted on all counts and given the max sentence Sirrah is on hook for 134 years, if to be served consecutively.  Which, to be honest, isn't likely to happen, but a man can dream.   

It is likely to be a life sentence, in effect, even if it is much shorter. I want him barred from running again. That could happen. The MAGATs are going to swarm anyway, already making noise. They needed more severe penalties for Jan 6.

[mlooney 3,417]

4 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

It is likely to be a life sentence, in effect, even if it is much shorter.

True.  Medical care isn't as good in prison as you get out side and he is a 76 year old white male.  

[Amiable Dorsai 70]

10 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

I want him barred from running again.

Pretty much the only way this happens is if he's impeached and convicted by the House and Senate respectively. He could run from a prison cell (Eugene Debs did in 192O). It would be an interesting situation if he won; would they move the Resolute desk to a New York penitentiary?

[Darth Fluffy 302]

14 hours ago, Amiable Dorsai said:

Pretty much the only way this happens is if he's impeached and convicted by the House and Senate respectively. He could run from a prison cell (Eugene Debs did in 192O). It would be an interesting situation if he won; would they move the Resolute desk to a New York penitentiary?

There is a provision in the US Constitution that prohibits an individual from running for office it they are specifically convicted of 'sedition'. Trump has performed seditious activities by inciting the storming of the Capitol (although his supporters would disagree).

Also, if he's executed for treason, he's not likely to run for office afterwards, although I think that outcome is unlikely.

If he is convicted of anything, and wins another presidential election, I'm sure he'll go the route of attempting to pardon himself, then we'll have to deal with that.

He's moderately geriatric, and his diet and lack of activity don't bode well; he may have the good grace to drop dead on his own. One can only hope. I'm pretty sure Melania would be pleased. I'd lay odds that he won't make it to 90, but he can probably last long enough to be a problem for another term.

That said, I don't think he's electable any more. The things he pointed fingers at Hillary for in 2015; he's done them all, in spades, much worse than she ever did. If I was running against him, that would be a huge opener in my add campaign. Footage of him in 2015 juxtaposed with his record. His base will ignore it, but the middle ground won't.

Or, in other words, "Don't go away mad, Mr. Trump. Just go away."

[Darth Fluffy 302]

While I like this idea, it only pertains to the most recent fiasco. Plenty of our other fellow countrymen need this as well. Looking at you, Wrong Insantis.

[Amiable Dorsai 70]

14th amendment, enacted after our Civil War, yes. Sedition would be difficult to prove. "He did stuff I don't like" doesn't count, nor do any of the charges against him (so far).

[Darth Fluffy 302]

48 minutes ago, Amiable Dorsai said:

14th amendment, enacted after our Civil War, yes. Sedition would be difficult to prove. "He did stuff I don't like" doesn't count, nor do any of the charges against him (so far).

Telling his supporters to storm congress, disrupt the election, and kill people is sedition. He did that. I heard him, you heard him, we all heard him, even those in denial heard him. I agree, it would be difficult to 'prove' - because for starters, you are dealing with the semantics of "What is proof?" - folks that are in denial are going to keep their heads buried up their own derrieres.

People are generally not actually rational. We have a veneer of rationality, But are largely driven by fears, prejudices, hurts, and some relatively positive influences like culture, affection, social groups -  not that much different that the rest of the primates. One big difference, the feces we fling tends to be figurative.

I can only hope they hold him to his own standard, and "Lock him up! Lock him up!".

[Amiable Dorsai 70]

12 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

. I agree, it would be difficult to 'prove' - because for starters, you are dealing with the semantics of "What is proof?" - folks that are in denial are going to keep their heads buried up their own derrieres.

And without a conviction, he's free to run again.

[Darth Fluffy 302]

1 hour ago, Amiable Dorsai said:

And without a conviction, he's free to run again.

The 'man' (I use the term loosely) is coated in Teflon. He has an amazing skill for self-promotion; he has people convinced he's accomplished $#!%, when all he's done is used his reverse Midas touch to turn things to S#!%. One thing he has accomplished is proven that a democracy is only viable if its populace stays informed (and Faux Noise is not 'news', per its own claim in court, twice now.)

So, yeah, there is a fair chance he will indeed run again. It will likely divide the G.O.P. vote, and they will loose. The middle ground no longer trusts him, he can't win (but I was wrong the first time he won), so there is no point, he won't be vindicated (though even if he wins, he's not vindicated; his stink is his forever more). His coming campaign is just an opportunity to grift his base and another tantrum. Color me beige with anticipation (beige being a color no one gets excited about).

 

[mlooney 3,417]

5 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

His coming campaign is just an opportunity to grift his base and another tantrum.

I always found it strange that a man that more or less ran on the "I have lots of money, I don't need federal funds" needs to get money from his base.  Very suspect.

 

[Darth Fluffy 302]

1 minute ago, mlooney said:

I always found it strange that a man that more or less ran on the "I have lots of money, I don't need federal funds" needs to get money from his base.  Very suspect.

If you look at his previous pre-presidential 'products', I think you'll spot a trend; this is an established Trump business model. All smoke, no substance, hand out for cash. 'Build or fix my shit', then he refuses to pay. Just another page from the same old book.

[ijuin 572]

2 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

His coming campaign is just an opportunity to grift his base and another tantrum.

My worry is that they will have another tantrum even worse than January 6th.

[Darth Fluffy 302]

5 hours ago, ijuin said:

My worry is that they will have another tantrum even worse than January 6th.

You are probably right to worry. I think he's in a position where he thinks he's been good, and the next time, he'll pull out the stoppers, since 'being good' didn't work.

As bad as he was, we could get someone worse.

[Amiable Dorsai 70]

23 hours ago, mlooney said:

I always found it strange that a man that more or less ran on the "I have lots of money, I don't need federal funds" needs to get money from his base.  Very suspect.

Small political donations have the effect of making voter fell invested in a candidate, or so I'm told. If so, even a politician who doesn't need money would be wise to solicit them.

[Darth Fluffy 302]

23 hours ago, Amiable Dorsai said:

Small political donations have the effect of making voter fell invested in a candidate, or so I'm told. If so, even a politician who doesn't need money would be wise to solicit them.

That makes sense; I've heard similar in different contexts.

That might also explain the blindness to Mango Mayhem's glaring flaws; a form of 'sunk cost' fallacy.

[mlooney 3,417]

[Darth Fluffy 302]

Finland

[Darth Fluffy 302]

Quote

1 hour ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Critical Thinking is a dangerous skill set in the hands of anyone on the outside.

<Holds head, thinking back on events of last couple of years> OK, will respond in Politics thread.

'Critical thinking' has been under attack from the more dogmatic elements of the right side of the spectrum, particularly the religious right, who view the ability to objectively question their beliefs as an attack. To be precise, they do not come out squarely against critical thinking, in some sense presumably would even endorse it, but they want to vet the conclusions, so it must not be taught in public schools to their children. That this is a self-contradictory stance does not seem to be on their radar. How big a deal is this? It has been proposed in state legislation that critical thinking cannot be taught to children. (I don't recall where, but I think Texas and/or Tennessee (of course)). This was a couple of years ago; the center of this sort of thinking has moved on to 'Don't teach Critical Race Theory' and the whole anti-Woke meme (Yeah, let's all be comatose.)

So yeah, taken out of the context of EGS magic police, your statement is spot on for how critical thinking is currently viewed. Sad; you don't get far without it.

[Pharaoh RutinTutin 1,586]

It has long been a feature of dystopian fiction that those who can go though the motions of critical thought or empical research and consistantly produce results supportive of the powers-that-be are powerful tools.

Of course, such tools require precision allignment.  If the tool goes out of line, or if the powers-that-be change their line, the tool is destroyed.

Why would-be despots on all sides and their enablers never see themselves in Twilight Zone reruns or 1984 is beyond me.

 

[ijuin 572]

4 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Of course, such tools require precision allignment.  If the tool goes out of line, or if the powers-that-be change their line, the tool is destroyed.

Don’t be silly. They never change their line. We have always been at war with Eastasia. To suggest otherwise is crimethink.

[Darth Fluffy 302]

8 hours ago, ijuin said:

Don’t be silly. They never change their line. We have always been at war with Eastasia. To suggest otherwise is crimethink.

. . . and that's double plus ungood.

[Darth Fluffy 302]

This is just MADness!

[mlooney 3,417]

Because everything ends up with a wiki, I present to you the wiki for NAFO, Bonkipedia

[ChronosCat 155]

On 4/22/2023 at 4:13 PM, Darth Fluffy said:

This is just MADness!

Is it part of the joke that the third answer in each scenario is (unfortunately) not that far off from the truth?