story Story, Friday September 2, 2016

[malloyd 23]

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

I think Edward would want to avoid pushing them too hard though, Adrian apparently did that with him and Noriko and look what happened there.

I don't think he needs to push either Super-Elliot or Ellen and Nanase girl detectives very hard.  Tedd's definitely not the field op type though.  I don't really know what motivates Grace, it may well be changing as she catches up on the socialization she missed out on growing up a caged lab experiment, though I suspect she's stuck to Tedd by authorial fiat regardless.

[Scotty 1,061]

2 minutes ago, malloyd said:

I don't think he needs to push either Super-Elliot or Ellen and Nanase girl detectives very hard.  Tedd's definitely not the field op type though.  I don't really know what motivates Grace, it may well be changing as she catches up on the socialization she missed out on growing up a caged lab experiment, though I suspect she's stuck to Tedd by authorial fiat regardless.

I think in Grace's case, having been created by a rogue government organization, Edward probably owes it to her to not allow her to be forced into another government organization. If Grace happens to say to Edward "I would like to do what you do, because you helped me and I want to help others." then Edward doesn't have to refuse.

[JustBecauseICantDraw 200]

I've thought about it, and I think I'm with Nanase on this one.

10,000 people in a town, and 10 vampires. 9 of them will not realise Diane is significant, or actively avoid her. The other 1 will actively seek her out.

She's in more danger than anyone else.

[Tom Sewell 268]

5 minutes ago, JustBecauseICantDraw said:

I've thought about it, and I think I'm with Nanase on this one.

10,000 people in a town, and 10 vampires. 9 of them will not realise Diane is significant, or actively avoid her. The other 1 will actively seek her out.

She's in more danger than anyone else.

Actually if Moperville is based on Naperville, IL, there are around 150,000 people in town. I do definitely agree with JustBecauseICantDraw about the danger. 

[Scotty 1,061]

What are the chances there are others in Moperville with the potential for "summoning the bane", Susan already can, Diane could one day, and their father is a known cheater.

[hkmaly 490]

23 hours ago, Scotty said:

What Edward did to Abraham is certainly an indication of his power, but it also got him in a lot of trouble with the organization

Including getting him FROM the position where he was able to allocate resources, in fact.

23 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

That hole of yours is deep enough. Stop digging.

That talent for digging - archaeology? - must be in family - except Tedd DID realized it's big enough.

23 hours ago, mlooney said:

Based solely on my understanding of milspeak, what Edward told Elliot during the evil monkey/Elliot turned into a girl episode, Lord Tedd is dead.

I suspect Lord Tedd has enough resources to eliminate DGB. Meanwhile, DGB doesn't have ability to travel between dimensions.

4 hours ago, malloyd said:

6 hours ago, Scotty said:

I think Edward would want to avoid pushing them too hard though, Adrian apparently did that with him and Noriko and look what happened there.

I don't think he needs to push either Super-Elliot or Ellen and Nanase girl detectives very hard.  Tedd's definitely not the field op type though.  I don't really know what motivates Grace, it may well be changing as she catches up on the socialization she missed out on growing up a caged lab experiment, though I suspect she's stuck to Tedd by authorial fiat regardless.

Him realizing it may be WHY he is trying to be careful. Also, we don't know what Mrs. Kitsune told him and how much he's afraid of her.

1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:

1 hour ago, JustBecauseICantDraw said:

I've thought about it, and I think I'm with Nanase on this one.

10,000 people in a town, and 10 vampires. 9 of them will not realise Diane is significant, or actively avoid her. The other 1 will actively seek her out.

She's in more danger than anyone else.

Actually if Moperville is based on Naperville, IL, there are around 150,000 people in town. I do definitely agree with JustBecauseICantDraw about the danger. 

What makes you think there are just 10 vampires in Moperville?

I actually agree with both sides here: Edward is assuming Andrea did good job and the number of remaining vampires is not big and they would mostly be in less populated areas because of keeping low profile. What Edward, BUT also Nanase doesn't know is that Sirleck is changing orders for the vampires, and also that the number of vampires is likely bigger and might even rise. Which puts Diane in significantly bigger risk.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

What are the chances there are others in Moperville with the potential for "summoning the bane", Susan already can, Diane could one day, and their father is a known cheater.

Doesn't mean he was cheating with multiple women at once. At least without protection. Also, I would assume that Diane is his oldest and there will be gaps. Also, he might've left Moperville. So, while there might be another summoner or two over the age 14 (which might be limit for marking), it's not that big.

[Scotty 1,061]

12 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Doesn't mean he was cheating with multiple women at once. At least without protection. Also, I would assume that Diane is his oldest and there will be gaps. Also, he might've left Moperville. So, while there might be another summoner or two over the age 14 (which might be limit for marking), it's not that big.

I'm not suggesting that there are more half siblings the same age at Diane and Susan, I mean Mr Pompoms could have been having affairs with women a year or so before marrying Mrs Pompoms to several years after their divorce, there could be a half sibling Akiko's age somewhere.

[hkmaly 490]

24 minutes ago, Scotty said:

39 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Doesn't mean he was cheating with multiple women at once. At least without protection. Also, I would assume that Diane is his oldest and there will be gaps. Also, he might've left Moperville. So, while there might be another summoner or two over the age 14 (which might be limit for marking), it's not that big.

I'm not suggesting that there are more half siblings the same age at Diane and Susan, I mean Mr Pompoms could have been having affairs with women a year or so before marrying Mrs Pompoms to several years after their divorce, there could be a half sibling Akiko's age somewhere.

Well, Akiko is DEFINITELY too young to be told "hey, you should train how to summon weapons because Vampires are likely to attack you".

... actually, she's in the same situation sans summoning. She's as likely to be attacked by someone Noriko fought with as Nanase is.

[Scotty 1,061]

3 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

... actually, she's in the same situation sans summoning. She's as likely to be attacked by someone Noriko fought with as Nanase is.

Given what Mama Kitsune knows (and it's clear she knows a fair bit of whats been going on and stuff) she probably has contingencies in place as well as Edward on speed dial if anything happens.

[Don Edwards 548]

3 hours ago, JustBecauseICantDraw said:

I've thought about it, and I think I'm with Nanase on this one.

10,000 people in a town, and 10 vampires. 9 of them will not realise Diane is significant, or actively avoid her. The other 1 will actively seek her out.

She's in more danger than anyone else.

3 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Actually if Moperville is based on Naperville, IL, there are around 150,000 people in town. I do definitely agree with JustBecauseICantDraw about the danger. 

Assuming a common statistical distribution called a "power curve" applies to vampires, it'll work out something like this: out of 111 random vampires 100 will not recognize Diane as a particular threat; 10 will recognize her as a threat; and 1 will recognize her as a *future* threat who can easily be taken out now.

She's in no more, or less, danger from the 100 than anyone else.

She's pretty much safe from the 10 - they will avoid her once they know of her (and, obviously, won't attack her before they know of her).

She's in increased danger from the 1; he's quite likely to come after her IF he first randomly gets close enough to spot her.

But the fact of being safe from the 10 might outweigh the fact of being in greater danger from the 1.

On the other hand: the one vampire she has encountered so far DID recognize her as a FUTURE threat. If Sirleck is being at all picky about which vampires to invite into town (on any basis other than proximity), then there isn't a random selection - which ruins any conclusions based on an assumption of random selection.

(That could work both ways. Presumably, less-powerful vampires can typically be bribed to come into town at a lower cost; if Sirleck is trying to go cheap, Spidey might be the only high-ability vamp in Sirleck's first *thousand*. But if he's seeking out quality, most of his vamps might be high-end.)

[hkmaly 490]

18 hours ago, Scotty said:

18 hours ago, hkmaly said:

... actually, she's in the same situation sans summoning. She's as likely to be attacked by someone Noriko fought with as Nanase is.

Given what Mama Kitsune knows (and it's clear she knows a fair bit of whats been going on and stuff) she probably has contingencies in place as well as Edward on speed dial if anything happens.

Didn't exactly helped Nanase, did it? Sure, Akiko is unlikely to leave home without supervision, and that supervision likely very often includes either Mrs. Kitsune or Nanase, but unless Mr. Kitsune also have magic, I don't think she's always protected.

17 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

(That could work both ways. Presumably, less-powerful vampires can typically be bribed to come into town at a lower cost; if Sirleck is trying to go cheap, Spidey might be the only high-ability vamp in Sirleck's first *thousand*. But if he's seeking out quality, most of his vamps might be high-end.)

You forget to take into account other non-random effects. Like the higher mortality between vampires who didn't learned how to recognize vampire hunters yet or the fact they wouldn't have connection which would allow Sirleck to "hire" them. Or the fact that getting vampires together can make them share some informations and detection methods ...

... in fact, existence of Susan and potentially other vampire hunters might've been part of briefing Sirleck did, which may again make the vampires who can't even recognize them less likely to came.

[Scotty 1,061]

40 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Didn't exactly helped Nanase, did it? Sure, Akiko is unlikely to leave home without supervision, and that supervision likely very often includes either Mrs. Kitsune or Nanase, but unless Mr. Kitsune also have magic, I don't think she's always protected.

I'm talking in terms of the Kitsune residence, like if Mama Kitsune has any power like her sister and Nanase then she might have some some protective wards around the house, or she asked Edward to set up some of his wards. Beyond that, it's on Nanase to fend for herself if she happens to go out on her own, but then she's pretty much always with Ellen or at Salty Crackers hanging out with Justin. Akiko would certainly have supervision she's 8, though she'll soon be getting to the age where she'll be wanting to go off on her own and there's not much that can be done to stop her.

[ijuin 572]

Nanase has proven herself able to face medium-strength threats (Abraham, not-Tengu), so she doesn't need close supervision as long as she can call the cavalry in a hurry. Akiko definitely falls under the "defenseless sidekick" category however, until she can get power of her own . . .

[banneret 45]

I think the Vampires who can sense Diane's status in detail probably have better targets. There are likely to be other people in town who might constitute a potential threat but don't have inconsistent contact with the eight, the other marked youths in their supporting cast, the adults with power, or immortals like Jerry. Access is almost as important as threat, someone who follows a routine and isn't in contact with as many powerful people is a much better target - if they're smart enough to detect her, they're smart enough to pick their targets.

[Scotty 1,061]

44 minutes ago, banneret said:

I think the Vampires who can sense Diane's status in detail probably have better targets. There are likely to be other people in town who might constitute a potential threat but don't have inconsistent contact with the eight, the other marked youths in their supporting cast, the adults with power, or immortals like Jerry. Access is almost as important as threat, someone who follows a routine and isn't in contact with as many powerful people is a much better target - if they're smart enough to detect her, they're smart enough to pick their targets.

Edward thinks that the spider vampire's attack on Diane was just a random chance event, but considering the vampires seem to be coming to Moperville with incentive from Sirleck in order to distract Helena and Demetrius so that Magus can get Ellen to zap Elliot, the chances of a vampire attack on Diane, or even Susan, might have increased. Does anyone think that because Tara and Andrea have gone back home, Helena and Demetrius might come back to Susan and Nanase for help? Or are they aware now that the response wouldn't be favourable?

[hkmaly 490]

2 hours ago, banneret said:

I think the Vampires who can sense Diane's status in detail probably have better targets. There are likely to be other people in town who might constitute a potential threat but don't have inconsistent contact with the eight, the other marked youths in their supporting cast, the adults with power, or immortals like Jerry. Access is almost as important as threat, someone who follows a routine and isn't in contact with as many powerful people is a much better target - if they're smart enough to detect her, they're smart enough to pick their targets.

Note that sensing her status in detail doesn't imply they can sense anyone else OR that they can sense long-distance. Even less, to actually make that complicated background check which would tell them that Diane has access to stuff you mentioned.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Edward thinks that the spider vampire's attack on Diane was just a random chance event, but considering the vampires seem to be coming to Moperville with incentive from Sirleck in order to distract Helena and Demetrius so that Magus can get Ellen to zap Elliot, the chances of a vampire attack on Diane, or even Susan, might have increased.

ANYONE in Moperville is in bigger risk now, but it's hard to determine if danger Diane is in got proportionally worse compared to other people ...

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Does anyone think that because Tara and Andrea have gone back home, Helena and Demetrius might come back to Susan and Nanase for help? Or are they aware now that the response wouldn't be favourable?

The response wouldn't be favourable AND they will likely just tell Edward instead of going after vampires themselves. Maybe Helena and Demetrius have another "backup" vampire killer. Or maybe they'll start guarding Elliot again.

[Scotty 1,061]

23 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

ANYONE in Moperville is in bigger risk now, but it's hard to determine if danger Diane is in got proportionally worse compared to other people ...

Yeah, considering Sirleck's exclamation that he'll "rain hell down on Moperville" a lot of people will be in danger, not just Adrian.

23 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

The response wouldn't be favourable AND they will likely just tell Edward instead of going after vampires themselves. Maybe Helena and Demetrius have another "backup" vampire killer. Or maybe they'll start guarding Elliot again.

Probably more likely a backup vampire killer or they'd be forced to do something else (see previous reference to "rain hell down on Moperville"). Deciding to go back to guarding Elliot full time again would likely prove impossible.

Oh, and I don't mean that Helena and Demetrius would prioritize Adrian over Elliot, I just mean they'd prioritize dealing with the vampires. Sirleck thinks Adrian is the offspring of one of them, but Helena and Demetrius would just be looking at the safety of the general public.

[hkmaly 490]

19 minutes ago, Scotty said:

40 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

The response wouldn't be favourable AND they will likely just tell Edward instead of going after vampires themselves. Maybe Helena and Demetrius have another "backup" vampire killer. Or maybe they'll start guarding Elliot again.

Probably more likely a backup vampire killer or they'd be forced to do something else (see previous reference to "rain hell down on Moperville").

Note that Helena and Demetrius may be too young to realize the "raining hell down on Moperville" before it starts.

20 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Oh, and I don't mean that Helena and Demetrius would prioritize Adrian over Elliot, I just mean they'd prioritize dealing with the vampires. Sirleck thinks Adrian is the offspring of one of them, but Helena and Demetrius would just be looking at the safety of the general public.

Maybe their backup killer would be ADRIAN - or Noah - which will look like confirmation of their relationship ...

[Scotty 1,061]

28 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Note that Helena and Demetrius may be too young to realize the "raining hell down on Moperville" before it starts.

Maybe, but considering they've already detected and had Andrea dispatch 6 as well as engage a 7th in roughly 2 months, they probably could detect more vampires incoming before they notice that Adrian is the main target of them.

31 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Maybe their backup killer would be ADRIAN - or Noah - which will look like confirmation of their relationship ...

This is possible as well. If Helena and Demetrius were watching during the bulldog dragon incident, they'd be aware of Noah, maybe they were behind the shade that distracted Noah at school as a way to ensure Noah would be there to help protect Elliot. Helena's statement that Voltaire was "pushing 'only guide and empower' as far as it'll bend" might not be refering to his manipulation of Tara alone, but also the manipulation of Dex.

[malloyd 23]

58 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Maybe, but considering they've already detected and had Andrea dispatch 6 as well as engage a 7th in roughly 2 months, they probably could detect more vampires incoming before they notice that Adrian is the main target of them.

You know, Andrea must have been very quick and effective at dispatching them, given that they can't have killed many people in Moperville at all.  It's not a very large city, and is a well regulated and policed one.  If there were half a dozen extra missing person reports in the last 2 months, never mind half a dozen blood drained corpses, DGB would probably have already noticed. 

I know it's traditional to ignore this sort of issue in vampire stories, but still.

[EmpactWB 21]

14 hours ago, malloyd said:

You know, Andrea must have been very quick and effective at dispatching them, given that they can't have killed many people in Moperville at all.  It's not a very large city, and is a well regulated and policed one.  If there were half a dozen extra missing person reports in the last 2 months, never mind half a dozen blood drained corpses, DGB would probably have already noticed. 

I know it's traditional to ignore this sort of issue in vampire stories, but still.

I chalk it up to them having the same basic needs as Andrea when it comes to a place to stay hidden. Basically, she's meeting them as they arrive and pick a lair, rather than after they've been there some time. Which would make Helena and Demetrius all the more likely to have her stay right there rather than actually help get her home. Plus, Sirleck is proof of concept that aberrations don't necessarily have to kill their victims (directly).

Also, there's the fact that not all aberrations are guaranteed to be blood-suckers, and vampire was the term Susan used to make it easier to explain to Sarah and Grace about the single specific one from France so it's weird having all the characters talk about them like that.

[hkmaly 490]

19 hours ago, malloyd said:

20 hours ago, Scotty said:

Maybe, but considering they've already detected and had Andrea dispatch 6 as well as engage a 7th in roughly 2 months, they probably could detect more vampires incoming before they notice that Adrian is the main target of them.

You know, Andrea must have been very quick and effective at dispatching them, given that they can't have killed many people in Moperville at all.  It's not a very large city, and is a well regulated and policed one.  If there were half a dozen extra missing person reports in the last 2 months, never mind half a dozen blood drained corpses, DGB would probably have already noticed. 

I know it's traditional to ignore this sort of issue in vampire stories, but still.

Rise in number of missing persons might be noticed but without immediately realizing the reason. Victims would have little common etc. (Assuming they don't find the blood drained corpse of course.)

Also, she only needed to be RELATIVELY quick - meaning, quicker than the vampire in searching for food. And considering the vampires were under orders to keep low profile, they might be not THAT fast.

5 hours ago, EmpactWB said:

Also, there's the fact that not all aberrations are guaranteed to be blood-suckers, and vampire was the term Susan used to make it easier to explain to Sarah and Grace about the single specific one from France so it's weird having all the characters talk about them like that.

Also, even blood-suckers might not necessary kill their target. If we look at the vampire in France specially, he was hypnotizing his targets ... it's possible that normally he let them alive. Hypnosis combined with correct choice of targets would make him harder to notice than if he killed them. Of course, he wanted to kill Susan because he perceived her as thread.

Note that it's possible vampires are most common aberrations - at least on griffin's half of world.

[Scotty 1,061]

49 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Also, even blood-suckers might not necessary kill their target. If we look at the vampire in France specially, he was hypnotizing his targets ... it's possible that normally he let them alive. Hypnosis combined with correct choice of targets would make him harder to notice than if he killed them. Of course, he wanted to kill Susan because he perceived her as thread.

The charm spell was to lure victims to a secluded spot for killing, trying to convince a possible victim to follow them would be much more difficult without such a spell.

Also, it's possible some vampires don't stop at blood when feeding. And maybe they have spells for hiding the remains.

[EmpactWB 21]

3 minutes ago, Scotty said:

The charm spell was to lure victims to a secluded spot for killing, trying to convince a possible victim to follow them would be much more difficult without such a spell.

Also, it's possible some vampires don't stop at blood when feeding. And maybe they have spells for hiding the remains.

While I don't disagree that it's likely, we only have the word of two lying liars who lie on that one killing his victims.

[Scotty 1,061]

10 minutes ago, EmpactWB said:

While I don't disagree that it's likely, we only have the word of two lying liars who lie on that one killing his victims.

And we still don't have solid proof that they lied either. It's still all hearsay and assumptions, and it's worse because the two don't fully remember what happened.