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NP Wednesday October 11, 2017

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I would object to turning people into "loving and cheerful" (or "gay") anything-at-all without their informed consent, even to a greater extent than non-consensual shape-changes. It's a mind-control issue.

 

But while we're on the subject of shape-changing...

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"People say that" ... yeah, it was already established that using immortals as moral compass is not good idea.

2 hours ago, mlooney said:

Even in non canon Ashley is too good for spells.

I suppose next page she will explain some of stuff Susan said which should make the transformation ok (like, consent). Which we totally need to have explained to Ashley in canon so she can finally stop having this block preventing her from being marked.

1 hour ago, Don Edwards said:

I would object to turning people into "loving and cheerful" anything-at-all without their informed consent, even to a greater extent than non-consensual shape-changes. It's a mind-control issue.

Exactly. The main problem with this "loving and cheerful" bit is that if you mess with someone's head, you invalidate any consent they might give later.

1 hour ago, Don Edwards said:

(or "gay")

While the term originally used to mean "carefree", "happy", or "bright and showy", I think Liz means they were homosexual. Which may not be considered mind-control in EGS, based on how the change is described when TF gun does it.

3 hours ago, Dan said:

With that cleared up, I'm certain nobody will take issue with this or any other fantasies Ashley has written or imagined or whatever. Or, for that matter, any of my fantasies, which most assuredly couldn't possibly overlap with any of Ashley's.

If there is no overlap, does it means Dan's fantasies are WORSE?

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6 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

If there is no overlap, does it means Dan's fantasies are WORSE?

I think Dan was just being sarcastic (suspiciously specific denial), meaning there is an overlap.   On the other hand, I get the impression from his NP and story vs. the pin-ups that he writes "clean", but leaves the more "adult" stuff be as fantasies.  

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3 minutes ago, PrimordialSoul253 said:
12 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

If there is no overlap, does it means Dan's fantasies are WORSE?

I think Dan was just being sarcastic (suspiciously specific denial), meaning there is an overlap.   On the other hand, I get the impression from his NP and story vs. the pin-ups that he writes "clean", but leaves the more "adult" stuff be as fantasies.  

Obviously. I was joking. It's likely there is 100% overlap, meaning all Ashley's fantasies were his before.

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2 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

I would object to turning people into "loving and cheerful" (or "gay") anything-at-all without their informed consent, even to a greater extent than non-consensual shape-changes. It's a mind-control issue.

I agree. The only thing that saved that particular set of strips for me was that it turned out to be someone's bad-fic.

I have some issues with mind control being used as a story device. At a minimum I would expect it to be treated as a serious issue with lasting consequences. This may be due to having seen it used while playing it for laughs, which I feel is horrendous.

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2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

it was already established that using immortals as moral compass is not good idea.

It's a bit telling of Immortals as a whole that pre-Reset Jerry and not-crazy Pandora are so far the only good ones of their species we saw.

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13 minutes ago, partner555 said:

It's a bit telling of Immortals as a whole that pre-Reset Jerry and not-crazy Pandora are so far the only good ones of their species we saw.

Interestingly enough, Ashley's sentiment and Hanma's response in the last panel pretty much mirrors Tedd and Pandora.

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1 hour ago, The Old Hack said:
3 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

I would object to turning people into "loving and cheerful" (or "gay") anything-at-all without their informed consent, even to a greater extent than non-consensual shape-changes. It's a mind-control issue.

I agree. The only thing that saved that particular set of strips for me was that it turned out to be someone's bad-fic.

Note that the bad-fic described was different that the one shown, although both were the mind-control aspect.

1 hour ago, The Old Hack said:

I have some issues with mind control being used as a story device. At a minimum I would expect it to be treated as a serious issue with lasting consequences. This may be due to having seen it used while playing it for laughs, which I feel is horrendous.

Yes ... it definitely shouldn't be played for laughs. Well, maybe in cartoon or crazy comedy where EVERYTHING is played for laughs - including mortal injuries - but even that may end up badly.

It could be villain doing it. It could be hero who then realized it wasn't good idea. It could be used ON villain with comment that it's better than killing him or that it's their only chance to defeat him. It could be used as cure for something even worse (possibly previous mind control). But in all cases it should be taken seriously.

Removing or altering memories is similar, if it's not just few last days ; it can easily be almost as bad as killing that person. Obviously, can still happen, but should be taken seriously.

17 minutes ago, partner555 said:
2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

it was already established that using immortals as moral compass is not good idea.

It's a bit telling of Immortals as a whole that pre-Reset Jerry and not-crazy Pandora are so far the only good ones of their species we saw.

Given the limited number of immortals we saw, it's possible that most immortals are good roughly between ages 150 and 200. But bellow that, they didn't matured enough to have usable moral compass, over that, they are going crazy. And Helena and Demetrius are either exception or had very good excuse for what they did to Nanase and Susan. Or maybe there were not as old as they looked.

On the other hand, it's possible Jerry is complete exception and even Pandora can only behave "good" if she keeps in mind what would Blaike do.

3 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Interestingly enough, Ashley's sentiment and Hanma's response in the last panel pretty much mirrors Tedd and Pandora.

... case in point for the other hand.

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On 10/11/2017 at 11:45 PM, The Old Hack said:

I have some issues with mind control being used as a story device. At a minimum I would expect it to be treated as a serious issue with lasting consequences. This may be due to having seen it used while playing it for laughs, which I feel is horrendous.

 

On 10/12/2017 at 0:55 AM, hkmaly said:

It could be villain doing it. It could be hero who then realized it wasn't good idea. It could be used ON villain with comment that it's better than killing him or that it's their only chance to defeat him. It could be used as cure for something even worse (possibly previous mind control). But in all cases it should be taken seriously.

Removing or altering memories is similar, if it's not just few last days ; it can easily be almost as bad as killing that person. Obviously, can still happen, but should be taken seriously.

You guys would like Doctor Who and The Dresden Files.  Both have major plot lines/character arcs that involve altering someone's memories for their own good and/or the greater good, and both treat it as a horrible, serious thing.  The Doctor has run into similar situations a couple of times since, where the writers basically said, yup, he kinda got that one wrong, and has learned better now.

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38 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

You guys would like Doctor Who and The Dresden Files.  Both have major plot lines/character arcs that involve altering someone's memories for their own good and/or the greater good, and both treat it as a horrible, serious thing.  The Doctor has run into similar situations a couple of times since, where the writers basically said, yup, he kinda got that one wrong, and has learned better now.

I have read most of the Dresden Files and I hold some liking for Doctor Who. I do not expect my entertainment to be perfect in all regards. I do expect it to pay attention when it goofs and to not make the most egregious kind of mistakes where someone gets violated physically or mentally just for a bit of a laugh. As far as I am concerned that is a deal breaker and will cause me to abandon the 'entertainment' in question.

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