Story Friday, June 28, 2019

[Tom Sewell 268]

http://egscomics.com/comic/party-031

Liz grew chin whiskers?!

Select invisible text below if you want to read it.

So how did Liz guess that there were others who could transform? Did Liz notice that Tedd is a girl sometimes? Does Liz think that Ashley thinks she can actually transform people like the stories she writes?

Edited June 28, 2019 by Tom Sewell
Added stuff.

[ijuin 594]

Maybe Liz is on Charlotte's web forum?

[Tom Sewell 268]

7 minutes ago, ijuin said:

Maybe Liz is on Charlotte's web forum?

Charlotte wouldn't post anything that would expose Cheerleadra, Shade Tail, Nanase, or Ellen--the encounter with not-Tengu was before either of the mall incidents.

[ijuin 594]

She wouldn't, but there is enough going on in Charlotte's forum for someone who reads it to believe in transformations even if she had not seen any transformations for herself.

[Tom Sewell 268]

1 minute ago, ijuin said:

She wouldn't, but there is enough going on in Charlotte's forum for someone who reads it to believe in transformations even if she had not seen any transformations for herself.

While Charlotte wouldn't post anything herself that she thinks could betray trusts, I think she would find it hard to censor the postings of others on her forum.  So, yes, Liz could have got some buzz about transformations from Charlotte's web... forum.

I didn't miss your pun.

[Darth Fluffy 338]

1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:

http://egscomics.com/comic/party-031

Liz grew chin whiskers?!

 

Last panel, silhouette? You know that's her hair that frames her face hanging down, right?

 

[Tom Sewell 268]

Just now, Darth Fluffy said:

Last panel, silhouette? You know that's her hair that frames her face hanging down, right?

Of course it is, but Dan could have changed her pose a little so it doesn't look like a goatee in silhouette.

Are you new to El Goonish Shive, or just to the forum?

[Pharaoh RutinTutin 1,619]

1 hour ago, ijuin said:

Maybe Liz is on Charlotte's web forum?

First, Ijuin, I don't recall seeing that reference in these forums before.
Shame on me if I have forgotten where that pun has been previously posted.
Shame on ALL of us if this really is the first time someone has mentioned Charlotte's Web.
We must hold ourselves to higher standards and never let a Pun opportunity escape our notice for so long.

Second, Liz was growing whiskers in the last panel.  You can't have pages of transformation discussions in EGS without SOMEONE transforming.

[Scotty 1,061]

Just now, Tom Sewell said:

So how did Liz guess that there were others who could transform? Did Liz notice that Tedd is a girl sometimes? Does Liz think that Ashley thinks she can actually transform people like the stories she writes?

She's probably just seen enough strangeness on TV (this page does confirm she's seen the report on the griffins at the mall and heard about the staged cheerleadra sighting) that she expects it to be possible, she could also have been just saying that expecting Elliot's reaction.

Of course this also confirms that Liz wasn't marked with a transformation spell if Pandora had marked her, but I still suspect that if Liz does have any magic, revealing it now would get him to stop trying to lie his way out of this, and I still don't buy that Liz still wouldn't know that she's got magic after nearly 3 months.

[Darth Fluffy 338]

3 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Of course it is, but Dan could have changed her pose a little so it doesn't look like a goatee in silhouette.

Yeah, didn't think a silhouette  made sense for that frame, but not really complaining.

Are you new to El Goonish Shive, or just to the forum?

Neither, just not into forums in general. This story arc with Liz, though, seems so out of character for her that I wanted to see if anyone had any insights. She's generally too apathetic to confront anyone. To be fair, Dan's characters change character when the plot pulls them in, and she looks like she's being promoted.

I did not remember that there was a forum, found y'all through Google, and when I wanted to post, was surprised to find that I already had an account.

 

[Scotty 1,061]

36 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

This story arc with Liz, though, seems so out of character for her that I wanted to see if anyone had any insights. She's generally too apathetic to confront anyone. To be fair, Dan's characters change character when the plot pulls them in, and she looks like she's being promoted.

I'd say Dan started giving her more depth when it was revealed she was friends with Ashley. Actually we can all thank Dan's creation of Ashley for Liz getting more panel time, Dan basically says as much in the commentary of that page.

40 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

I did not remember that there was a forum, found y'all through Google, and when I wanted to post, was surprised to find that I already had an account.

I thought the name looked familiar, you might have posted a few times before the crash wiped everyone's post counts.

[Darth Fluffy 338]

2 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I'd say Dan started giving her more depth when it was revealed she was friends with Ashley. Actually we can all thank Dan's creation of Ashley for Liz getting more panel time, Dan basically says as much in the commentary of that page.

Agreed, more depth, but at that point, it did not yet seem out of character. She was still essentially the same Liz, with more face time.

 

I thought the name looked familiar, you might have posted a few times before the crash wiped everyone's post counts.

Sounds right.

 

[Pharaoh RutinTutin 1,619]

Quote

On June 28, 2019, Dan Shive Said:

...it makes me suspect there's some dude in my brain who likes silhouettes and will just occasionally insist upon them to my subconscious.

That "Dude" was a French sketch artist who figured out how to charge his clients for "Portraits" by tracing shadows on paper.

[Wyrd42 3]

I find it amusing how feminine Elliot's body language is in panel five, when he's asserting his manliness b cocking a hip to the side, making a hand gesture I've only seen from women, even his facial expression all speak more of She-whose-name-I-refuse-to-speak than his Elliot persona.  He is even standing in a pose that pushes his pecs/breasts forward enough to suddenly show where they weren't before. Of course, that is likely an intentional choice to go with how every argument he offered to rebut his separation from his hero persona illustrated how bad of a liar he is.

[ChronosCat 158]

As I was afraid of, Elliot is attempting a level of denial beyond his skill to pull off, and in the process practically confirming what he's trying to deny. Oh well, at least Liz is taking it well, and as a close friend of Ashley's ought to be trustworthy.

3 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

This story arc with Liz, though, seems so out of character for her that I wanted to see if anyone had any insights. She's generally too apathetic to confront anyone. To be fair, Dan's characters change character when the plot pulls them in, and she looks like she's being promoted.

I think her friendship with and resulting concern for Ashley is pushing her to show more initiative than usual.

[Scotty 1,061]

Just now, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

That "Dude" was a French sketch artist who figured out how to charge his clients for "Portraits" by tracing shadows on paper.

I remember doing shadow drawings in Grade 3.

[hkmaly 490]

10 hours ago, Scotty said:

16 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

So how did Liz guess that there were others who could transform? Did Liz notice that Tedd is a girl sometimes? Does Liz think that Ashley thinks she can actually transform people like the stories she writes?

She's probably just seen enough strangeness on TV (this page does confirm she's seen the report on the griffins at the mall and heard about the staged cheerleadra sighting) that she expects it to be possible, she could also have been just saying that expecting Elliot's reaction.

What she's saying seem too specific for that. Although yes, it MIGHT be just to see Elliot's reaction. ... or she saw Rhoda in mall, for example.

14 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

14 hours ago, ijuin said:

She wouldn't, but there is enough going on in Charlotte's forum for someone who reads it to believe in transformations even if she had not seen any transformations for herself.

While Charlotte wouldn't post anything herself that she thinks could betray trusts, I think she would find it hard to censor the postings of others on her forum.  So, yes, Liz could have got some buzz about transformations from Charlotte's web... forum.

Question is what other incidents involving transformations may be talked about on Charlotte's forum.

13 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Shame on ALL of us if this really is the first time someone has mentioned Charlotte's Web.

I would expect it was mentioned during Family Tree, but maybe we were too distracted by Charlotte's Angels?

10 hours ago, Scotty said:

Of course this also confirms that Liz wasn't marked with a transformation spell if Pandora had marked her, but I still suspect that if Liz does have any magic, revealing it now would get him to stop trying to lie his way out of this, and I still don't buy that Liz still wouldn't know that she's got magic after nearly 3 months.

I would reiterate that her spell might be something which is not so obviously magical so she can be using it without realizing it's magic.

6 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

10 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

This story arc with Liz, though, seems so out of character for her that I wanted to see if anyone had any insights. She's generally too apathetic to confront anyone. To be fair, Dan's characters change character when the plot pulls them in, and she looks like she's being promoted.

I think her friendship with and resulting concern for Ashley is pushing her to show more initiative than usual.

I think she's not nearly as apathetic as she pretends to be. Remember how she was pissed of by what the uniforms did with her ex-boyfriend?

6 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

As I was afraid of, Elliot is attempting a level of denial beyond his skill to pull off, and in the process practically confirming what he's trying to deny. Oh well, at least Liz is taking it well, and as a close friend of Ashley's ought to be trustworthy.

I think he's several levels over his skill actually.

Liz either isn't surprised by it or is good in pretending that.

 

[Tom Sewell 268]

10 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

... or she saw Rhoda in mall, for example.

That's a possibility, but Liz doesn't know Rhoda--Rhoda goes to Moperville South. Liz would probably have recognized Catalina; they were together with Susan during the great fighting-gang-violence-with-dorky-school-uniforms incident.

20 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

I would reiterate that her spell might be something which is not so obviously magical so she can be using it without realizing it's magic.

You mean sort of like Tedd, Arthur, and Van's talents? Pandora didn't know about Seers back in October. 

[ijuin 594]

3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I would reiterate that her spell might be something which is not so obviously magical so she can be using it without realizing it's magic.

Given what Liz said in http://egscomics.com/egsnp/2016-08-26 I would suggest that her spell might have something to do with seeing through illusions or transformations ("not really big on pretending to be something that she's not"). She might look at a transformed person/creature and subconsciously realize what they look like un-transformed. That would also neatly explain how she is aware of Elliot being Cheerleadra even though nearly everyone else seems to have put it out of their minds.

Edited for spelling

[hkmaly 490]

2 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

... or she saw Rhoda in mall, for example.

That's a possibility, but Liz doesn't know Rhoda--Rhoda goes to Moperville South. Liz would probably have recognized Catalina; they were together with Susan during the great fighting-gang-violence-with-dorky-school-uniforms incident.

That doesn't matter. It's enough that she saw someone who probably wasn't cheerleadra transforming.

2 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I would reiterate that her spell might be something which is not so obviously magical so she can be using it without realizing it's magic.

You mean sort of like Tedd, Arthur, and Van's talents? Pandora didn't know about Seers back in October. 

Obviously not exactly, as seer talent can't be given by mark. However ...

16 minutes ago, ijuin said:

Given what Liz said in http://egscomics.com/egsnp/2016-08-26 I would suggest that her spell might have something to do with seeing through illusions or transformations ("not really bit on pretending to be something that she's not"). She might look at a transformed person/creature and subconsciously realize what they look like un-transformed. That would also neatly explain how she is aware of Elliot being Cheerleadra even though nearly everyone else seems to have put it out of their minds.

Yes, that would be one possibility (and I also like that explanation, although technically Pandora might see something in her subconscious which is not really related to what she was saying). Another would be ability to recognize lie, although given Elliot's performance it would seem superfluous.

However, even Luke's spell of seeing auras is something someone might not immediately realize is a spell.

And Justin got spell he totally didn't realized isn't just another anime martial art ability despite KNOWING that anime martial arts can lead to awakening and getting spell.

PS: Maybe it's even more universal than seeing through transformation and recognizing lie. Look again at her "Of course The man covered up who you really are" ... that, obviously, could be her cynicism combined with distrust in government in work. Or it could be information about DGB she obtained due to using her spell while watching news, without realizing she used her spell.

We already have seers and their intuitive understanding of magic, Diane and her detective talent, Ellen and her surprisingly good detective ideas and obviously immortals and their clairvoyance. And several conclusion jumpers. Maybe we get human character who, due to spell, will have totally valid although unexplainable intuitive insights ...

[Don Edwards 561]

5 hours ago, hkmaly said:

11 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

As I was afraid of, Elliot is attempting a level of denial beyond his skill to pull off, and in the process practically confirming what he's trying to deny. Oh well, at least Liz is taking it well, and as a close friend of Ashley's ought to be trustworthy.

I think he's several levels over his skill actually.

Telling a 2-year-old that Santa is coming (in mid-December) is several levels over his skill.

[Darth Fluffy 338]

3 hours ago, ijuin said:

Given what Liz said in http://egscomics.com/egsnp/2016-08-26 I would suggest that her spell might have something to do with seeing through illusions or transformations ("not really big on pretending to be something that she's not"). She might look at a transformed person/creature and subconsciously realize what they look like un-transformed. That would also neatly explain how she is aware of Elliot being Cheerleadra even though nearly everyone else seems to have put it out of their minds.

Edited for spelling

Yeah, I agree, my gut says that if she's marked, it has something to do with seeing things as they really are, something she could mistake for intuition.

[Tom Sewell 268]

3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

PS: Maybe it's even more universal than seeing through transformation and recognizing lie. Look again at her "Of course The man covered up who you really are" ... that, obviously, could be her cynicism combined with distrust in government in work. Or it could be information about DGB she obtained due to using her spell while watching news, without realizing she used her spell.

It may also mean that Glar has gained transformation powers.

And, wouldn't Glar be the perfect boyfriend for Liz?

Seriously, I haven't heard anyone really use "The Man" since the Sixties.

[Darth Fluffy 338]

7 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

Seriously, I haven't heard anyone really use "The Man" since the Sixties.

 

Apparently, the The Man still has a heartbeat: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheMan

 

... and in south Florida, small watercraft are sticking it to the manatee!

 

[Scotty 1,061]

5 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I would reiterate that her spell might be something which is not so obviously magical so she can be using it without realizing it's magic.

I don't think Pandora would bother marking someone with a spell soo subtle that no one, not even the caster, knows it's magic being used. And then there's....

Just now, Darth Fluffy said:

Yeah, I agree, my gut says that if she's marked, it has something to do with seeing things as they really are, something she could mistake for intuition.

Pandora also stated that what she could give Liz, while not what she was looking for, still had many ways it could end up helping... the implication is that the spell might not be as flashy as transformation, but would still work towards revealing magic to the public. If it was to see through transformations, it's not doing as Pandora hoped because Liz wouldn't be likely to call out people as being transformed in a public setting, and again if Pandora had any reason to think that someone was unlikely to use the spell in public, she probably wouldn't bother giving them the spell.

Good Tom seems to be an exception cus him nor his girlfriend seem to realize that it's a spell that lets him detect puppies in danger (or maybe they do know, it's not really clear), but he got that because Pandora had a soft spot for saving puppies.