story Story, Friday November 10, 2017

[Tom Sewell 268]

39 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I guess it is also possible that it wasn't the FV5 beam being used, and Sirleck simply used one of Ellen's many minor transformation beams, like Blonder!

I don't think so. Ellen can mix characteristics of two different targets; but so far changing hair color has been limited to Tedd, Cranium, and Elliot. Ellen didn't really change Susan's hair color when she FV5'd Susan in the sleepover; the FV5 simply made Susan's naturally-long blond hair grow out. Then when unzapping Susan, the blue-died parts of each hair disappeared, leaving her hair it's former length, but not dyed.

The colorless hair and the flaming aura around whatever is in Panel 4 pretty much resemble Elliot the Bully smasher, so that may be Dan's only intention. Or not. It doesn't mean the hair is actually a different color.

I am pretty sure at least one part of Dan's intention in making Panel 4 the way he has is to keep all of us guessing what it means at least until the next comic.

I wonder if Dan has ever read David Gerrold's The World of Star Trek. He was the guy who wrote The Trouble With Tribbles. One of the things he talks about in the book is how the original series' scripts always put in some kind of cliffhanger before each of the four commercial breaks. Yes, there were only four commercial breaks back in those days, hard as it must be for you kids to believe.

[Scotty 1,061]

Just now, Tom Sewell said:

I don't think so. Ellen can mix characteristics of two different targets; but so far changing hair color has been limited to Tedd, Cranium, and Elliot. Ellen didn't really change Susan's hair color when she FV5'd Susan in the sleepover; the FV5 simply made Susan's naturally-long blond hair grow out. Then when unzapping Susan, the blue-died parts of each hair disappeared, leaving her hair it's former length, but not dyed.

I linked the page of Ellen's demo that shows that she could change only the hair colour, a couple pages later shows that she can combine the effects using Blonder and FV5 as an example, these are all canon and it's implied that these are just a few of the things Ellen could do, meaning she's likely not restricted to only blonde hair, but considering the result of Magus getting into Elliot shows blonde hair it's either the default, or maybe Magus requested it*? (*that one might be pushing it)

[Tom Sewell 268]

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

I linked the page of Ellen's demo that shows that she could change only the hair colour, a couple pages later shows that she can combine the effects using Blonder and FV5 as an example, these are all canon and it's implied that these are just a few of the things Ellen could do, meaning she's likely not restricted to only blonde hair, but considering the result of Magus getting into Elliot shows blonde hair it's either the default, or maybe Magus requested it*? (*that one might be pushing it)

I don't think it's quite clear that "just blonder" is one of Ellen's options without blending, but, okay. It still doesn't mean that Panel 4 Being is really a blonde now.

Besides the fun of arguing every point I can get away with, what really matters about Panel 4 is that it suggests something like "AT LAST!" or maybe "IT'S SLAUGHTERIN' TIME!" and how or whether Ashley or even Sirleck perceives this--assuming we aren't looking at Sirleck. And, of course, the ambiguity I have just told you in my previous post that I'm pretty sure Dan put in deliberately.

Edited November 11, 2017 by Tom Sewell
"T" time. And Panel 5 demoted to Panel 4.

[CritterKeeper 1,102]

Sirleck-Ellen is using right hand, no particular hand position, if anyone wants to check what that means so far as possible effects....

[Tom Sewell 268]

16 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

Sirleck-Ellen is using right hand, no particular hand position, if anyone wants to check what that means so far as possible effects....

Indeed she is. And there is an excellent reason to use exactly the first spell she got: That is the only spell she had when Magus tried to get her to zap Elliot at Grace's birthday party. Anything more brings up the possibility of unwanted side-effects or total failure.

[Tom Sewell 268]

Since Sirleck comes equipped with four tendrils, one for each ear and one for each nostril and inserts them into his hosts, and the tendrils are long enough to penetrate into the brain of the host, It seems a reasonable possibility that he might be able to access the host's memories and/or skills. But we don't have any idea if this is true or if it is, how much access and how long it lasts, and if there is a transfer rate.  And, of course, how much damage he does to the host in the process. Since Francine was still alive when we saw her last, the process can't always be fatal...unless, for course, Francine's dead body turns up.

Are the hosts aware of Sirleck's presence while he is in control? Something else we don't know. We do know he can leave a host and return to the same host, but maybe he leaves the abandoned host unconscious. That would fit Francine's last scene, when she might be just waking up on a toilet. Does she have any memory of what Sirleck made her do? Any memory of seeing Sirleck before he possessed her?

Leaving Francine alive with inconvenient memories doesn't strike me as a loose thread Sirleck would fail to cut off. However, being able to convincingly play the part of Ellen even for a few moments doesn't seem likely. Possibly Sirleck starts out by using suggestion, like Magus, and only gradually builds up total control. Then the same series of suggestions I posed for Magus to get Ellen to once again zap her brother as a good joke could still apply. Ellen could still be thinking she's still Ellen.

Although the expression on Ellen's face doesn't exactly give me total confidence that this might be true.

Edited November 11, 2017 by Tom Sewell
Small correction

[Scotty 1,061]

21 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

45 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

Sirleck-Ellen is using right hand, no particular hand position, if anyone wants to check what that means so far as possible effects....

Indeed she is. And there is an excellent reason to use exactly the first spell she got: That is the only spell she had when Magus tried to get her to zap Elliot at Grace's birthday party. Anything more brings up the possibility of unwanted side-effects or total failure.

A list of visible hand usage:

Both hands double FV5

Left hand copy

Right hand scan, left hand paste

Left hand scans and determines sex in fusion paste

Both hand scan, Left also determines sex for melting pot

Left hand Flashlight

Right hand shrink beam

Right hand Vulcan salute

Right hand shrink with Vulcan salute

Both hands to combine effects

Both hands to combine effects, Left hand Vulcan salute to resize clothing

Right hand thumb in

Both hands AOE

Seems like unless using both hands to amplify of combine spells, Ellen uses her right hand to fire TF beams normally. Hand gestures only modify the effect of the beam, Vulcan salute allows for clothing to be resized during FV5 or not resized for shrinking and thumb in lowers the power of the beam for precision transformations (like not transforming a person in close proximity to the target).

Also I was thinking that the hand gestures were exclusively right handed, but then I took a closer look at Ellen shrinky FV5ing Susan and it's her left hand that's doing the vulcan salute. So they don't seem to be exclusive but Ellen tends to use her right hand most of the time for 1 handed beams soo...

[Scotty 1,061]

7 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

Since Sirleck comes equipped with four tendrils, one for each ear and one for each nostril and inserts them into his hosts, and the tendrils are long enough to penetrate into the brain of the host, It seems a reasonable possibility that he might be able to access the host's memories and/or skills. But we don't have any idea if this is true or if it is, how much access and how long it lasts, and if there is a transfer rate.  And, of course, how much damage he does to the host in the process. Since Francine was still alive when we saw her last, the process can't always be fatal...unless, for course, Francine's dead body turns up.

Are the hosts aware of Sirleck's presence while he is in control? Something else we don't know. We do know he can leave a host and return to the same host, but maybe he leaves the abandoned host unconscious. That would fit Francine's last scene, when she might be just waking up on a toilet. Does she have any memory of what Sirleck made her do? Any memory of seeing Sirleck before he possessed her?

Leaving Francine alive with inconvenient memories doesn't strike me as a loose thread Sirleck would fail to cut off. However, being able to convincingly play the part of Ellen even for a few moments doesn't seem likely. Possibly Sirleck starts out by using suggestion, like Magus, and only gradually builds up total control. Then the same series of suggestions I posed for Magus to get Ellen to once again zap her brother as a good joke could still apply. Ellen could still be thinking she's still Ellen.

Although the expression on Ellen's face doesn't exactly give me total confidence that this might be true.

Since Sirleck exists on another plane of reality, it's possible that the tendrils don't physically interact with the host and that it's probably more of an exhange of energy that allows Sirleck to manipulate his hosts and live off them. So no actual damage may be done to the host. The interaction may still have other side effects like leaving the host drained of energy, and if there's a headache, that could still be caused by having their mind hijacked magically rather than physically. Magus' Amplifications also had a tendency to leave a person with a headache and disoriented.

As for memories, either Francine won't remember a thing about that day, or she'll be having a tough time convincing people that she's not crazy. Ellen would at least have friends to help her if she does remember the whole thing, but I think it's too soon to tell yet.

[Tom Sewell 268]

3 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Since Sirleck exists on another plane of reality, it's possible that the tendrils don't physically interact with the host and that it's probably more of an exhange of energy that allows Sirleck to manipulate his hosts and live off them. So no actual damage may be done to the host. The interaction may still have other side effects like leaving the host drained of energy, and if there's a headache, that could still be caused by having their mind hijacked magically rather than physically. Magus' Amplifications also had a tendency to leave a person with a headache and disoriented.

Possibly no physical damage at all. Aberrations, vampires, body thieves, whatever you call these jokers, they're all former humans who are being kept alive (or maybe undead) by stealing life energy from the species they've abandoned. That's magical/metaphysical/whatever-type energy, not limited to the polite suggestions that are the physical laws of the Moperverse. However, stealing enough energy will kill anyone they feed on. So I'd say the best we can expect of any of Sirleck's possessions is that some people recover from them.

 

12 minutes ago, Scotty said:

As for memories, either Francine won't remember a thing about that day, or she'll be having a tough time convincing people that she's not crazy.

If Francine just doesn't remember, she may have a hard time convincing herself she's not crazy. The same could apply to Ellen, although Ellen's greater experience (in two universes) will make her more open to alternative explanations.

[Scotty 1,061]

5 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

If Francine just doesn't remember, she may have a hard time convincing herself she's not crazy. The same could apply to Ellen, although Ellen's greater experience (in two universes) will make her more open to alternative explanations.

If Francine doesn't remember anything, one scenario I see happening would be her waking up, stumbling out of the bathroom because she's still weak from being possessed, Brad (the other Janitor) finds her and asks her where's she's been, she said she doesn't remember most of the day but feels very ill, they probably see the school nurse (I'm assuming a school of a couple thousand probably has some medical facility in case of injury or illness) who will probably say that Francine hasn't been getting enough iron in her diet or something and it caused her to pass out. Brad offers to take Francine home, and soon the two of them are dating and living happily ever after (assuming neither of them are already married or seeing anyone).

[hkmaly 490]

8 hours ago, Scotty said:

9 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

The way I interpret Panel 2--and I know that Magus is considerably frustrated, with reason--is that he sees Nanase as the way he viewed Terra: A female stronger and more forceful than females are supposed to be. You can see back in Hidden Genesis Terra is actually concerned about Magus—maybe even fond of him—but not willing to submit to him, just as Nanase won't. And, also, Magus may have had feelings for Terra—if only she wasn't so darned unladylike in competing with him. So he may see another Terra in Nanase.

That feels too much like the opposite of Elliot and Nanase's relationship though. The whole duel between Terra and Magus feels like they're trying to have fun with it, and it wouldn't bee the first time Dan's had characters act that way for fun, first obvious one was Elliot and Nanase, but we also have Grace and Tedd with the TFG, well Grace tried to be dramatic about it. Thing is, we don't see Terra gloating over Magus' disappearance, and we don't see Magus cursing Terra specifically either, (yes he knows he was sabotaged, but he doesn't state any belief that Terra was responsible for it)

In fact if anything is opposite in the Elliot/Nanase vs Magus/Terra department, it's the personalities, Terra is more like Elliot in that she was probably afraid of hurting someone with her power, and Magus is more like Nanase and was pushing Terra to not hold back.

I don't have anything to add, just that I agree with Scotty on this ; we didn't saw much from Terra and Magus, but I don't see him as jerk. All the mistakes he's doing lately might be because he's really desperate and without any friends to keep him "grounded" ... and might be similar to how would Tedd end up without Elliot ...

6 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

I wonder if Dan has ever read David Gerrold's The World of Star Trek. He was the guy who wrote The Trouble With Tribbles. One of the things he talks about in the book is how the original series' scripts always put in some kind of cliffhanger before each of the four commercial breaks. Yes, there were only four commercial breaks back in those days, hard as it must be for you kids to believe.

Four commercial breaks in 45 minutes of show? And it's even more now? ... Seems we are still lucky in EU.

1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:

2 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Sirleck-Ellen is using right hand, no particular hand position, if anyone wants to check what that means so far as possible effects....

Indeed she is. And there is an excellent reason to use exactly the first spell she got: That is the only spell she had when Magus tried to get her to zap Elliot at Grace's birthday party. Anything more brings up the possibility of unwanted side-effects or total failure.

However, it's true that the effect seems more like the blonder beam.

1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:

Since Sirleck comes equipped with four tendrils, one for each ear and one for each nostril and inserts them into his hosts, and the tendrils are long enough to penetrate into the brain of the host, It seems a reasonable possibility that he might be able to access the host's memories and/or skills. But we don't have any idea if this is true or if it is, how much access and how long it lasts, and if there is a transfer rate.  And, of course, how much damage he does to the host in the process. Since Francine was still alive when we saw her last, the process can't always be fatal...unless, for course, Francine's dead body turns up.

Luckily he is (probably) not inserting those tendrils on material plane. THAT would make lot of damage (and would be visible on Francine).

30 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

Possibly no physical damage at all. Aberrations, vampires, body thieves, whatever you call these jokers, they're all former humans who are being kept alive (or maybe undead) by stealing life energy from the species they've abandoned. That's magical/metaphysical/whatever-type energy, not limited to the polite suggestions that are the physical laws of the Moperverse. However, stealing enough energy will kill anyone they feed on. So I'd say the best we can expect of any of Sirleck's possessions is that some people recover from them.

Yes.

1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:

Are the hosts aware of Sirleck's presence while he is in control? Something else we don't know. We do know he can leave a host and return to the same host, but maybe he leaves the abandoned host unconscious. That would fit Francine's last scene, when she might be just waking up on a toilet. Does she have any memory of what Sirleck made her do? Any memory of seeing Sirleck before he possessed her?

Leaving Francine alive with inconvenient memories doesn't strike me as a loose thread Sirleck would fail to cut off. However, being able to convincingly play the part of Ellen even for a few moments doesn't seem likely. Possibly Sirleck starts out by using suggestion, like Magus, and only gradually builds up total control. Then the same series of suggestions I posed for Magus to get Ellen to once again zap her brother as a good joke could still apply. Ellen could still be thinking she's still Ellen.

Although the expression on Ellen's face doesn't exactly give me total confidence that this might be true.

Ellen was already behaving weirdly when talking with Nanase - Nanase noticed. However, there definitely may be some other options than full possession. Regarding memory, it is possible Sirleck can CHOOSE how much will host remember.

I'm definitely looking forward for how will Ellen describe her experience.

16 minutes ago, Scotty said:

If Francine doesn't remember anything, one scenario I see happening would be her waking up, stumbling out of the bathroom because she's still weak from being possessed, Brad (the other Janitor) finds her and asks her where's she's been, she said she doesn't remember most of the day but feels very ill, they probably see the school nurse (I'm assuming a school of a couple thousand probably has some medical facility in case of injury or illness) who will probably say that Francine hasn't been getting enough iron in her diet or something and it caused her to pass out. Brad offers to take Francine home, and soon the two of them are dating and living happily ever after (assuming neither of them are already married or seeing anyone).

I think the school nursery might be already closed for day ... I mean for weekend. We are not sure if Brad didn't already left, in fact.

However, I wouldn't think Francine will necessary thinks she's crazy. It was just one day and her health state and memories - even if she DOES remember parts of being possessed - might suggest she got some hard case of flu - or maybe diarrhea, considering she's on toilet - with high temperatures causing passing out and possibly hallucinations. If that wouldn't repeat, she may write it off as one-time occurrence.

There are lot of things which would make you question your mental health when healthy yet you are completely ignoring them when you feel obviously sick. And even medical professionals would diagnose viral infections mostly based on what patient tells them, especially if it seems they are already wearing off (wait ... is this the correct phrase for illnesses?).

[Tom Sewell 268]

7 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Ellen was already behaving weirdly when talking with Nanase - Nanase noticed. However, there definitely may be some other options than full possession. Regarding memory, it is possible Sirleck can CHOOSE how much will host remember.

Now that's one possibility I didn't consider. And it intrigues me. It would probably be easier than emplanting false memories because more work would be involved creating those memories. Sirleck seems smarter than any other Aberration we've been shown, and with an ability like that, it could make it easier to juggle hosts, which in turn could make it easier for him to keep a low profile. And since Immortals despise body thieves more than any other type of Aberration, low profiles would be high priority in the keeping of that "unending" part of their unending lives (or unlives).

[Don Edwards 548]

10 hours ago, Cpt. Obvious said:

To me this looked a lot like Magus was frustrated and prepared to try just about anything to get more power, including using "forbidden" magic. Not entirely unlike Noah, only he didn't have an Adrian Raven to keep him in check. Forbidden magic tends to be forbidden for a reason.

I don't recall seeing anything that would indicate Magus tried to use any forbidden magic.

What we have is that in the process of Magus and Terra each casting one spell (with Terra having at least two pre-cast spells - flight and a shield - clearly in effect, versus Magus having none, although we have no clue what either might have had in place with no visible effect), in the course of a duel presumably already in progress for unknown reasons that apparently (based on Terra's reaction to the result) include actual intent to do harm, Magus did something Terra didn't.

And, guess what, Terra did something Magus didn't.

[Scotty 1,061]

4 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Ellen was already behaving weirdly when talking with Nanase - Nanase noticed. However, there definitely may be some other options than full possession. Regarding memory, it is possible Sirleck can CHOOSE how much will host remember.

On this page, we have Ellen talking about their plans and how they'd have to take the downstairs TV and poking fun at Nanase still being suspicious of Ashley, I certainly believe she's not possessed at this point.

Cut ahead 2 pages, and suddenly Ellen's changing plans and running off in a hurry. Nanase thought it was strange, but I don't think she was suspicious at that point, but it is apparent to us now that Ellen was not acting herself. So it's clear that Sirleck to control of Ellen during the break between those pages.

What also seems apparent is there doesn't seem to be any struggle to maintain control, so Sirleck must have Ellen's consciousness locked down pretty good, how though is unknown, she'll either be completely blacked out during the ordeal, or it'll be like she's locked in a glass box, able to see everything that's happening but unable to do anything about it. The latter would certainly be a traumatic experience for anyone, so the question is, how does Dan plan on addressing it?

[Tom Sewell 268]

26 minutes ago, Scotty said:

The latter would certainly be a traumatic experience for anyone, so the question is, how does Dan plan on addressing it?

Probably later. Maybe much later. Very possibly in another Q&A following the end of Sister III. Remember how long the last Q&A was? And speaking of Q&As, I think it's been a long time since we saw Dr. Gehrmann. Did he get eaten by a Big Mouth Vampire?

 

[hkmaly 490]

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

6 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Ellen was already behaving weirdly when talking with Nanase - Nanase noticed. However, there definitely may be some other options than full possession. Regarding memory, it is possible Sirleck can CHOOSE how much will host remember.

On this page, we have Ellen talking about their plans and how they'd have to take the downstairs TV and poking fun at Nanase still being suspicious of Ashley, I certainly believe she's not possessed at this point.

Cut ahead 2 pages, and suddenly Ellen's changing plans and running off in a hurry. Nanase thought it was strange, but I don't think she was suspicious at that point, but it is apparent to us now that Ellen was not acting herself. So it's clear that Sirleck to control of Ellen during the break between those pages.

Yes. Changing plans MIGHT be ok, but running off like that surprised Nanase. Not enough to suspect anything ... yet.

Note however that those two pages could be multiple hours apart.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

What also seems apparent is there doesn't seem to be any struggle to maintain control, so Sirleck must have Ellen's consciousness locked down pretty good, how though is unknown, she'll either be completely blacked out during the ordeal, or it'll be like she's locked in a glass box, able to see everything that's happening but unable to do anything about it.

There MAY be some struggle which happened meanwhile, when he was attacking, but yes he locked her down pretty well.

Note: Additional option is basically that you feel like in dream. Actually, multiple options, as there are different ways how to feel like in dream. Which would PROBABLY be less traumatic.

55 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

The latter would certainly be a traumatic experience for anyone, so the question is, how does Dan plan on addressing it?

Probably later. Maybe much later. Very possibly in another Q&A following the end of Sister III.

It IS possible Ellen will say something when explaining what happened to Nanase. But considering how Dan usually does it, there WILL be questions which will need to wait for Q&A.

56 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

Remember how long the last Q&A was?

Too short to explain everything. ... five weeks?

57 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

And speaking of Q&As, I think it's been a long time since we saw Dr. Gehrmann. Did he get eaten by a Big Mouth Vampire?

He probably installed even bigger screen and more security high-definition cameras so there is really no reason for him to appear on panel.

[Scotty 1,061]

7 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Probably later. Maybe much later. Very possibly in another Q&A following the end of Sister III.

6 hours ago, hkmaly said:

It IS possible Ellen will say something when explaining what happened to Nanase. But considering how Dan usually does it, there WILL be questions which will need to wait for Q&A.

I meant more in how the characters themselves deal with it as part of their development. Will Ellen be able to shrug off the feeling of helplessness as she watched herself zapping Elliot and getting taken by another being? Or will she spiral into depression over it?

What's happening now to me feels like a worse experience than the events of Painted Black and Sister 2 combined, and it really wouldn't just be Ellen that is scarred by it, but Elliot and also Tedd would probably be affected the most. I want to think that Dan won't have them get any lasting negative effects from this and that it only makes them stronger later, but I'm not sure.

6 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Note however that those two pages could be multiple hours apart.

At the very least the "Before" page could be in the break between the last 2 classes of the day and the "After" would be at the end of school and everyone's getting ready to go home, with the reveal of Francine being a minute or so after we saw Ellen run off. If it was the end of school, that certainly would confuse Nanase if her and Ellen normally hung around afterwards, although... doesn't Ellen still drive Grace to and from school? I wonder if Grace noticed anything odd if she did.

[Tom Sewell 268]

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

At the very least the "Before" page could be in the break between the last 2 classes of the day and the "After" would be at the end of school and everyone's getting ready to go home, with the reveal of Francine being a minute or so after we saw Ellen run off. If it was the end of school, that certainly would confuse Nanase if her and Ellen normally hung around afterwards, although... doesn't Ellen still drive Grace to and from school? I wonder if Grace noticed anything odd if she did.

Yes, having Sirleck-Ellen give Nanase that BS story just before dashing off at the end of school would make sense, and Francine waking up in a panel on the same page might mean that Sirleck ambushed Ellen in the restroom just moments before, perhaps with Magus suggesting the sudden need for a pee break to Ellen to get her in the same restroom. Francine is a janitor, and Sirleck-Francine could have put a "Temporarily Out of Service" sign on the restroom door to make sure it was unoccupied, taking off the sign just before Ellen showed up. S-F could have then gone into that stall, dropped left Francine unconscious or so disoriented she wouldn't be conscious of what was happening, and dived on Ellen--from above and behind, of course.

Well, whether or not it really happened like that or some other way we may never know.

And Grace...

Where is Grace, anyway?

[Tom Sewell 268]

I asked "Where's Grace?" in my last post. But looking through Part 19 and Part 20 again, I began to think about the chronology. It goes something like this:

Part 19, #2395 - It's morning at North High. Ashley wants a lazy movie at Elliot's; Elliot agrees.

#2396 - Scene shifts to South High. Diane interrupts Nanase (sitting next to Ellen) to ask about Susan. Francine the janitor is in the background.  This is the only scene in Part 19 where none of the characters have packs or coats. 

#2397-2398 - Back at North High, Susan and Elliot, both wearing packs (Susan has either a light jacket or an open shirt worn like a jacket), walk and talk about Diane until the spilled soda  incident. 

#2399 - Ellen and Nanse, with packs like other students, walk and talk--and Francine is in the background again. Nanase would like a movie at Ellen's place, but Ellen tells her Elliot and Ashley will be there, and that their parents will be out. As Ellen says this, Francine seems to have changed course.

#2400 - Arthur and Sybil talk at their secret hideout. Or maybe just an office.

#2401 - Ellen and Nanase both have packs, as do passing students. Ellen tells Nanase a lie about Elliot going out and needing the car, and about something she said she saw on Charlotte's forum about an inhuman voyeur at the college. Nanase agrees to drive her own car and meet Ellen. <strong>Ellen says to meet her at about six.</strong>. This should be after dark in Greater Chicago in January. 

#2402 - Thirdy minutes after school at South High, fellow janitor Brad is looking for Francine. Francine seems to be in poor shape in one of the women's restrooms

Part 20, #2403

Susan arrives outside the mall. It doesn't seem to be dark yet, but maybe the parking lot is well-lit. 

#2418

Ashley has just arrived at Elliot's home. Ashley is just taking off her coat, so they just arrived. The window over the door looks pretty dark.

I don't know if Dan did any research about when it would be dark in the Chicago vicinity in mid-January, but I found out sunset on the next January 17th will be at 4:47.  Should be quite dark by "about six."

Anyone want to bet that it's not "about six" right now in Moperville? How about a bet that the Vamp Brigade isn't going to go into action at six or thereabouts?

Edited November 12, 2017 by Tom Sewell
Not enough nots.

[hkmaly 490]

9 hours ago, Scotty said:

17 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Probably later. Maybe much later. Very possibly in another Q&A following the end of Sister III.

16 hours ago, hkmaly said:

It IS possible Ellen will say something when explaining what happened to Nanase. But considering how Dan usually does it, there WILL be questions which will need to wait for Q&A.

I meant more in how the characters themselves deal with it as part of their development. Will Ellen be able to shrug off the feeling of helplessness as she watched herself zapping Elliot and getting taken by another being? Or will she spiral into depression over it?

What's happening now to me feels like a worse experience than the events of Painted Black and Sister 2 combined, and it really wouldn't just be Ellen that is scarred by it, but Elliot and also Tedd would probably be affected the most. I want to think that Dan won't have them get any lasting negative effects from this and that it only makes them stronger later, but I'm not sure.

Now the question is, will that be worse experience for Ellen than Sister 1? Remember that Ellen was already supposed to have depression once, then Dan retconned it out.

On the other hand, Susan got PTSD and dealed with it for half of comic. And then there is Grace.

As already mentioned, Dan can avoid this by having Ellen not remember it, or make it not a big deal even if she remembers. Or he can decide to go with it this time, exploring the lack of therapists in EGS in greater detail.

4 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

9 hours ago, Scotty said:

At the very least the "Before" page could be in the break between the last 2 classes of the day and the "After" would be at the end of school and everyone's getting ready to go home, with the reveal of Francine being a minute or so after we saw Ellen run off. If it was the end of school, that certainly would confuse Nanase if her and Ellen normally hung around afterwards, although... doesn't Ellen still drive Grace to and from school? I wonder if Grace noticed anything odd if she did.

Yes, having Sirleck-Ellen give Nanase that BS story just before dashing off at the end of school would make sense, and Francine waking up in a panel on the same page might mean that Sirleck ambushed Ellen in the restroom just moments before, perhaps with Magus suggesting the sudden need for a pee break to Ellen to get her in the same restroom. Francine is a janitor, and Sirleck-Francine could have put a "Temporarily Out of Service" sign on the restroom door to make sure it was unoccupied, taking off the sign just before Ellen showed up. S-F could have then gone into that stall, dropped left Francine unconscious or so disoriented she wouldn't be conscious of what was happening, and dived on Ellen--from above and behind, of course.

Even if Ellen doesn't drive Grace (which she probably does), the story itself would explain why she didn't had TOO much time good enough. However, not good enough to explain why she was running and why she didn't spent at least minute with Nanase - neither Elliot nor Grace would be THAT impatient.

And besides "temporary out of service", janitors SHOULD have some way to signalize they are just cleaning up the toilet. While they can (and often does) do that with people inside, it's better if they don't, as long as it's not only available toilet. As a bonus, the signal can be on AND Magus may make Ellen not notice it.

4 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Where is Grace, anyway?

Probably nowhere important. I'm not sure Dan still remembers Ellen is supposed to drive her home. If she does, she managed to do it without raising suspicion.

2 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

I don't know if Dan did any research about when it would be dark in the Chicago vicinity in mid-January, but I found out sunset on the next January 17th will be at 4:47.  Should be quite dark by "about six."

Anyone want to bet that it's not "about six" right now in Moperville? How about a bet that the Vamp Brigade isn't going to go into action at six or thereabouts?

Considering Nanase may be going to search for Ellen when she realizes she's missing (starting probably with phone calls but still), I wouldn't be surprised if the time is 5:30 AND vampires were supposed to start right now or maybe already started (5:15? 5:00?) to provide maximal distraction (but not enough time for people to react and move - just immortals). Basically, narrative needs calls for postponing showing start of vampire attack AFTER this part even if it chronologically happened other way around.

Only reason why it might already be 6:00 would be if there was trap for Nanase as well, but why would it? It's not like Sirleck targets main eight specifically, his targets are just Helena and Demetrius - and Adrian. And obviously Elliot but he's direct target and not target for vampires.

(Obviously, the times might not be so rounded. It's also possible the vampire attack was planned on 5:30 - THAT is likely rounded - but current time is like 5:41:28)

Also, I don't think Dan did any research and he might already regret giving exact time of Nanase meeting with Ellen and he will compensate by not giving any exact time for any of other comics whole rest of day.

[Douglas 16]

23 hours ago, hkmaly said:

However, it's true that the effect seems more like the blonder beam.

It seems to me that the effect is "turn into Magus." From the only time we've ever seen Magus in a body before, his hair is plenty light enough to match that shade.

[hkmaly 490]

14 minutes ago, Douglas said:

On 11/12/2017 at 1:34 AM, hkmaly said:

However, it's true that the effect seems more like the blonder beam.

It seems to me that the effect is "turn into Magus." From the only time we've ever seen Magus in a body before, his hair is plenty light enough to match that shade.

Note that he might SPECIFICALLY asked Sirleck to use the blonder beam so he won't end up as girl but as something more similar to his real appearance instead.

[Tom Sewell 268]

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

(Obviously, the times might not be so rounded. It's also possible the vampire attack was planned on 5:30 - THAT is likely rounded - but current time is like 5:41:28)

"About six" is the closest thing to a mention of a specific time-of-day in all of Part 19. "Thirty minutes after school" is more vague because while Dan may know that the last bell at his hometown high schools sound at 3:10 and likely did when he was still in high school, we don't, and what exactly does "after school" actually mean? After the end of the last class? After you can't get back into the building without key or someone inside to let you in?

There's got to be a reason why Sirleck wants Nanase to be at the college at "around six" without Ellen. And Sirleck seems like a schemer and planner. What do you think Nanase did soon after Ellen ran off? She took out her phone and either called Charlotte or brought up Charlotte's forum. Sirleck could have planted a fake story on Charlotte's forum, but even with that, Nanase should have gotten in touch with Charlotte well before six. Nanase or Charlotte would have tried to contact Ellen. If either one can't, guess who else they would call? Elliot.  Plus, there/s an excellent chance that Nanase talked to Grace or Justin or both, maybe before leaving Moperville South.

Possibly Dan missed that implication; just as possibly he's already built that into whatever plan he has for the story.

Oh, that conjectural "Out of Order" sign? Maybe Sirleck put it back on the door as soon as he left, or even left it on the door he was holding open for Ellen to come in.

[hkmaly 490]

26 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

There's got to be a reason why Sirleck wants Nanase to be at the college at "around six" without Ellen.

Not necessarily - it might be enough if he wants her NOT somewhere at "around six". Like, not around Ellen. The place might've been chosen randomly or maybe it's as far away as possible without raising suspicion. Or, maybe it's because it's the opposite direction Magus (or Sirleck, but I think Magus was paying attention to what Sirleck was saying) plans to drive.

26 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

And Sirleck seems like a schemer and planner. What do you think Nanase did soon after Ellen ran off? She took out her phone and either called Charlotte or brought up Charlotte's forum. Sirleck could have planted a fake story on Charlotte's forum, but even with that, Nanase should have gotten in touch with Charlotte well before six. Nanase or Charlotte would have tried to contact Ellen. If either one can't, guess who else they would call? Elliot.  Plus, there/s an excellent chance that Nanase talked to Grace or Justin or both, maybe before leaving Moperville South.

Possibly Dan missed that implication; just as possibly he's already built that into whatever plan he has for the story.

Sirleck could have planted fake story OR real sighting (or both). In any case, convincing enough for Nanase to not contact Ellen in inconvenient time ... as long as that's BEFORE six, as afterwards the fact Ellen is not there would became suspicious.

It's forum. There is no advanced authentication, no verification, no formal procedures. Lack of details, even conflicting details, wouldn't be suspect. Easy to infiltrate.

Also, no, Nanase might not feel the need to contact Charlotte about it. And she's unlikely to do it while driving. And Sirlect could've easily answer any question over phone as Ellen, and if Nanase will contact Elliot in next five minutes, Magus can reply. It would actually be more problem if Nanase tries to use the doll to contact someone - the doll might not recognize them as same person, just like in Cheerleadra's case. But maybe it would.

(Also, Nanase has no reason to use doll.)

 

[Tom Sewell 268]

2 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Sirleck could have planted fake story OR real sighting (or both). In any case, convincing enough for Nanase to not contact Ellen in inconvenient time ... as long as that's BEFORE six, as afterwards the fact Ellen is not there would became suspicious.

Yes, but there's another weakness in the fake story OR real sighting (or both): "Ellen" didn't give any reason why Nanase shouldn't call Elliot about it.

It could be implied; after all, last week Ellen went solve another mystery with Nanase and was glad Diane was along because she wanted to make sure Diane wasn't at the mall where Ashley and Elliot were going on their first date.

Oh, wait. That evening went on into Elliot getting outed as Cheerleadra, Nanase kicking a soccer ball into a flying griffin's head, and Diane getting attacked by a vampire. Maybe Nanase would assume that nothing like that would happen tonight, and that no one is out to get Elliot, like she learned about last Sunday from the third Immortal Nanase ever met in person. Probably just another jerk with a mask. No reason to disturb Elliot. No reason to give Ellen the idea Nanase might think Ellen lied or not given the full story...