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Story Monday June 26, 2017

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She's being pretty up front so far, both by stating she's know by Sarah as Box, and as Pandora.

Tedd's also pretty freaked out right now, and Pandora is standing in walked through his table

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5 minutes ago, Scotty said:

She's being pretty up front so far, both by stating she's know by Sarah as Box, and as Pandora.

Yes ... surprisingly up front, I didn't expected she will tell him more names than she told Sarah. Especially considering she can assume he WILL tell Sarah.

7 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Tedd's also pretty freaked out right now, and Pandora is standing in walked through his table

No, he is freaked out because immortal is talking to him, he might not even notice she walked through his table (and, likely, watches). Which makes two of them, as I'm sure Pandora didn't noticed she's walking through the table either.

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1 minute ago, hkmaly said:

No, he is freaked out because immortal is talking to him, he might not even notice she walked through his table (and, likely, watches). Which makes two of them, as I'm sure Pandora didn't noticed she's walking through the table either.

No no, I wasn't saying he's freaked out because she walked through the table, I mean, it might had added to it a bit considering he was trying to keep his distance and realizing nothing could stop her.

Also Pandora moves through stuff all the time, I don't think it bothers her anymore.

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2 minutes ago, WR...S said:

As in "of course they were his!"  Edited.

That would mean that Noriko had an affair with Adrian, I don't think that'd be the case because the revelation that Edward isn't his father would just mess him up I'd imagine.

Tedd and Edward already have a rift forming over Tedd's genderfluidity, if Edward isn't even Tedd's father, why should it matter what Edward thinks of how Tedd feels? At least that's one possible outcome of this, another would be Tedd going back to the way he was before the TFG. And another possibility is that it pushes Tedd into doing whatever Voltaire is hoping that Tedd would do after he's been sufficiently traumatized.

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6 minutes ago, WR...S said:
11 minutes ago, Scotty said:

"They"?

As in "of course they were his!"  Edited.

... while "they" may refer to Tedd alone, "were" still mean at least two people, as far as I know. And no, with even Noriko being convinced Tedd is Edward's child it really can't be "of course".

6 minutes ago, ProfessorTomoe said:

But to "have it taken away" ... was she referring to the ability to make watches or the mark she gave him? Or both? He won't lose his ability to see magic, will he?

She didn't give him anything regarding watches, although he might lose ability to make them anyway. She also didn't give him ability to see magic. Only thing she gave him was the mark, so she must talk about the mark.

 

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"They" is always grammatically plural, even when it's semantically singular; an affair between Raven and Noriko would not be without foreshadowing, and she'd certainly be convinced Tedd were Edward's if she thought (as everyone thought) elves were sterile.

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3 minutes ago, hkmaly said:
11 minutes ago, ProfessorTomoe said:

But to "have it taken away" ... was she referring to the ability to make watches or the mark she gave him? Or both? He won't lose his ability to see magic, will he?

She didn't give him anything regarding watches, although he might lose ability to make them anyway. She also didn't give him ability to see magic. Only thing she gave him was the mark, so she must talk about the mark.

She was probably referring to the mark, because she believed she was being nice to him when she did so, but it could also mean the excess ambient energy, if she was the initial cause of it being higher than normal for much of Tedd's life, it would have made it easy for him to become interested in magic and obsessed with making it public, and then Pandora finds out that what she did could cause magic to change and then Tedd learning about it ruined his dream.

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7 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

She didn't give him anything regarding watches, although he might lose ability to make them anyway.

In essence, she has—they don't work without the dam, and she created the dam. Once the dam is gone, the watches won't work anymore. I'm guessing.

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10 minutes ago, WR...S said:

an affair between Raven and Noriko would not be without foreshadowing, and she'd certainly be convinced Tedd were Edward's if she thought (as everyone thought) elves were sterile.

It would STILL not enter the "of course" category. Only person who could be "of course" based on foreshadowing would be Susan, and even with her I don't think it means she's his child, just descendant.

6 minutes ago, ProfessorTomoe said:
15 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

She didn't give him anything regarding watches, although he might lose ability to make them anyway.

In essence, she has—they don't work without the dam, and she created the dam. Once the dam is gone, the watches won't work anymore. I'm guessing.

That sounds too indirect to apologize for it this way.

7 minutes ago, Scotty said:

if she was the initial cause of it being higher than normal for much of Tedd's life, it would have made it easy for him to become interested in magic and obsessed with making it public,

... that's even more indirect and I also don't think it would be true - Tedd was already interested in transformations with TF gun before switching to watches, and I'm sure without the ambient magic he would find way to power them.

It can be argued that it was Pandora's plan with dewitchery diamond and Elliot's awakening which made Tedd switch to magic, but Nanase was already awakened AND Elliot might've awaken even without the diamond soon. Also, again, indirect.

And finally, I suppose seers being interested in magic is sort of easy to happen.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

It would STILL not enter the "of course" category. Only person who could be "of course" based on foreshadowing would be Susan, and even with her I don't think it means she's his child, just descendant.

Why Susan?  We don't even know that she knows of Susan, whereas we know she knows quite a lot about Tedd, much of which we're probably not privy to.  In either case, there's nothing to give away what beyond her conversation with Heka it is she's basing that "of course" on.

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9 minutes ago, WR...S said:
20 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

It would STILL not enter the "of course" category. Only person who could be "of course" based on foreshadowing would be Susan, and even with her I don't think it means she's his child, just descendant.

Why Susan?  We don't even know that she knows of Susan, whereas we know she knows quite a lot about Tedd, much of which we're probably not privy to.  In either case, there's nothing to give away what beyond her conversation with Heka it is she's basing that "of course" on.

Because of this very obvious foreshadowing of course. This seem just as random as Susan and Diane looking similar, and we know where THAT ended, right?

(Answer: Nowhere yet, actually ... not even them being sister is confirmed yet.)

Also, she's more than four centuries old immortal interested in Tedd's well-being. It makes sense she did "background check" on all his friends. In fact, she might be the one who will just plainly tell what is the relationship between Susan and Diane.

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Can Mrs Raven seal off herself and Tedd so they can speak privately?

I don't think this would be a good time for Grace to show up and defend her territory (Tedd) against the intruder.

Also, she'll want to make sure no one can listen in remotely.  Or even from in the house.  I doubt either of those two would want Edward aware of what's being said here.  At least not yet.

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18 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Because of this very obvious foreshadowing of course. This seem just as random as Susan and Diane looking similar, and we know where THAT ended, right?

Very obvious foreshadowing Pandora wasn't (obviously) there for.  I don't doubt that that means something, but since there's no reason to think Pandora saw it, there's no reason to think that's what her "of course" meant.

18 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Also, she's more than four centuries old immortal interested in Tedd's well-being. It makes sense she did "background check" on all his friends. In fact, she might be the one who will just plainly tell what is the relationship between Susan and Diane.

Even if she's been running a "background check," why would she have gotten as far out as Diane?  Through Susan?  Jerry's faux pas suggests that's not likely.  Hell, how recently would she have gotten as far out as Susan, whom Tedd barely knew existed until Sister?  Again, nothing we've seen through her eyes lends itself to that "of course" referring to Susan.

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37 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Can Mrs Raven seal off herself and Tedd so they can speak privately?

Can? Probably. Will she think about it? Not sure.

37 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

I don't think this would be a good time for Grace to show up and defend her territory (Tedd) against the intruder.

Hmmmm ... Grace doesn't generally seem so impulsive, she knows she shouldn't attack immortals ... but, yes, especially if Pandora will keep being so close there is some risk ...

37 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Also, she'll want to make sure no one can listen in remotely.  Or even from in the house.  I doubt either of those two would want Edward aware of what's being said here.  At least not yet.

Yup, I don't think she wants to share with Edward either. Or with VOLTAIRE. But, again, she may not be thinking about it.

... alternatively, maybe she doesn't NEED to. Like, she KNOWS Grace won't come and Edward is not listening.

(After all, both are probably sleeping. She only needs to check what phase of sleep they are in.)

26 minutes ago, WR...S said:
53 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Because of this very obvious foreshadowing of course. This seem just as random as Susan and Diane looking similar, and we know where THAT ended, right?

Very obvious foreshadowing Pandora wasn't (obviously) there for.  I don't doubt that that means something, but since there's no reason to think Pandora saw it, there's no reason to think that's what her "of course" meant.

Her "of course" was certainly referring to something WE weren't there for. I'm just saying that looking at foreshadowings, Susan seems more likely than Tedd.

26 minutes ago, WR...S said:

Even if she's been running a "background check," why would she have gotten as far out as Diane?  Through Susan?  Jerry's faux pas suggests that's not likely.  Hell, how recently would she have gotten as far out as Susan, whom Tedd barely knew existed until Sister?

She's over four hundred years old. Her deduction abilities surpasses Sherlock Holmes. Compare with Jerry: he had NO IDEA about who come to visit him, he didn't even know Grace is dating Tedd. Yet he deduced Sarah has relationship issues by looking at her.

Old Jerry wouldn't do the same mistake young Jerry did. He would know.

Pandora's background check might've been extremely throughout and yet only taking few minutes.

Actually, maybe Pandora just looked at Susan, recognized something and rejected it as impossible ... and her "of course" now refers to that.

26 minutes ago, WR...S said:

Again, nothing we've seen through her eyes lends itself to that "of course" referring to Susan.

No, nothing we've seen through her eyes lends itself to that "of course" ... no matter who could it refer to.

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11 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

She's over four hundred years old. Her deduction abilities surpasses Sherlock Holmes. Compare with Jerry: he had NO IDEA about who come to visit him, he didn't even know Grace is dating Tedd. Yet he deduced Sarah has relationship issues by looking at her.

Old Jerry wouldn't do the same mistake young Jerry did. He would know.

Pandora's background check might've been extremely throughout and yet only taking few minutes.

Actually, maybe Pandora just looked at Susan, recognized something and rejected it as impossible ... and her "of course" now refers to that.

All indications are that having been alive since medieval times hasn't made Pandora some mental superbeing, it's made her senile.  Sure, Jerry's new incarnation might not still be "as insightful as a self-help guru," but there's a huge gap between being able to tell that Sarah and Susan have issues with repression and that Diane and Susan are whatever the heck they are.  (I still think counterparts is most likely, since twins makes no sense at this point and half-sisters wouldn't explain their identical phenotypes or simultaneous births; that would suggest at most one was conceived by this Adrian Raven, and since both Susan and Diane have rigid gender identities...)

 

11 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

No, nothing we've seen through her eyes lends itself to that "of course" ... no matter who could it refer to.

Anything Pandora knows that we don't know she knows is incalculably more likely to concern Tedd than Susan.  The only reason to think it might concern Susan is based on evidence we've seen and she hasn't that her conclusions might pertain to Susan.  For that reason appealing to the fact that she probably knows things we don't could only bolster the notion she refers to Tedd, to the extent appealing to knowledge we know nothing of could bolster anything at all.

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48 minutes ago, WR...S said:

All indications are that having been alive since medieval times hasn't made Pandora some mental superbeing, it's made her senile.

There are no signs she's senile. Crazy, yes, but not senile.

48 minutes ago, WR...S said:

(I still think counterparts is most likely, since twins makes no sense at this point and half-sisters wouldn't explain their identical phenotypes or simultaneous births; that would suggest at most one was conceived by this Adrian Raven, and since both Susan and Diane have rigid gender identities...)

I still didn't gave up the idea they are twins and Mrs. Pompoms falsified hospital records. Looks more likely Tedd is Adrian's son to me. Starting with the fact that if Edward found Noriko is cheating with Adrian, their relationship would be WORSE and Adrian would react more on Grace's saying he can do all things with her and less on her wanting to go on potentially dangerous expedition.

Also, time of birth depends more on time of ovulation than time of conception, so even mere mortal wouldn't have any problem concepting both. Sure, them being half-sisters doesn't explain the identical phenotypes, but being half-sisters AND magic's flair for drama might.

48 minutes ago, WR...S said:

For that reason appealing to the fact that she probably knows things we don't could only bolster the notion she refers to Tedd, to the extent appealing to knowledge we know nothing of could bolster anything at all.

... there is that indirect bolster that she is more likely to refer to something which is true than to something which isn't. Of course yes, unknown knowledge is very weak argument for anything.

(Note: For record, personally I consider most likely that "they" refer to someone we DONT KNOW, and something happening long ago. Not everyone mentioned must be already known character. But, IF it's someone who know, Susan and Diane seem more likely than Tedd. I mean, I don't think THIS was supposed to be foreshadowing, based on Dan's comment under it)

 

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32 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Starting with the fact that if Edward found Noriko is cheating with Adrian, their relationship would be WORSE

...worse than what?  If you mean Edward and Noriko, they're divorced and on opposite sides of the world; if you mean Edward and Raven, their only interaction was a single, standoffish phone call about a business matter, on which Mr. Verres was surprised to hear from him and Adrian was of two minds about calling.  He outright says their divorce was his fault.  All told, their relationship seems exactly like what I'd expect from that scenario.  Heck, I'd be of half a mind to think he slept with Noriko even if we could be sure he wasn't Tedd's father.  (Not sure why that would exacerbate his hangups about Grace, either, since he doesn't know she knows Tedd at that point; if anything, being willing to sleep with a probably then twenty-something married woman should make him less put off by the idea of sleeping with an eighteen-year-old.)

 

32 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Also, time of birth depends more on time of ovulation than time of conception, so even mere mortal wouldn't have any problem concepting both.

Well, sure, as much as any two random people might be born twenty minutes apart, but if two women conceived in the same bed their children probably wouldn't be born on the same day for just that reason (nor would they look all that similar), let alone two children conceived by a bed-hopping father, whoever that father might be.  It could be the hand of magic made manifest, but you'd think in that case they wouldn't be blonde.  It seems more likely that they're either twins or counterparts, and without some explanation why Susan's mother would give up one of two identical twins and then lie about it, counterparts seems more likely.

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37 minutes ago, WR...S said:
1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Starting with the fact that if Edward found Noriko is cheating with Adrian, their relationship would be WORSE

...worse than what?  If you mean Edward and Noriko, they're divorced and on opposite sides of the world; if you mean Edward and Raven, their only interaction was a single, standoffish phone call about a business matter, on which Mr. Verres was surprised to hear from him and Adrian was of two minds about calling.

The interaction was relatively civil. And they remained in same city. And Raven ended it with "I'm sorry I wasn't a better teacher". If he would slept with Noriko, THIS wouldn't be what he would say he's sorry for.

37 minutes ago, WR...S said:

He outright says their divorce was his fault.

He also said it was because she eventually placed greater importance on her career than her family.

37 minutes ago, WR...S said:

Not sure why that would exacerbate his hangups about Grace, either, since he doesn't know she knows Tedd at that point; if anything, being willing to sleep with a probably then twenty-something married woman should make him less put off by the idea of sleeping with an eighteen-year-old.

I meant considering he obviously regret his behaviour and tries to not repeat it. There isn't that big difference between marriage and committed relationship, and he DID assume Grace is in committed relationship (with ELLEN).

 

Also, from meta perspective, I expect Raven will end up advising main eight. IF he would be sleeping with Noriko while she was still married with Edward, noone would forgive him.

(Although, I'm little more open to speculation that Noriko FIRST break up with Edward and divorced him, THEN slept with Raven (without Edward knowing). Tedd's brother might be half-brother, then.)

37 minutes ago, WR...S said:

 It seems more likely that they're either twins or counterparts, and without some explanation why Susan's mother would give up one of two identical twins and then lie about it

SHE didn't. The other woman did. The twin scenario would work if Mrs. Pompoms would be infertile and she got the baby from the other woman, not knowing it was from twins.

37 minutes ago, WR...S said:

 It could be the hand of magic made manifest, but you'd think in that case they wouldn't be blonde.

... why shouldn't they be blonde?

 

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2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

The interaction was relatively civil. And they remained in same city.

If that were the criterion, there wouldn't be any cities left.

 

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

And Raven ended it with "I'm sorry I wasn't a better teacher". If he would slept with Noriko, THIS wouldn't be what he would say he's sorry for.

Especially with Mr. Verres's curt response, this sounds quite a lot like one might when talking around the actual issue - especially given the Doylist unlikelihood of directly addressing it.

 

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I meant considering he obviously regret his behaviour and tries to not repeat it. There isn't that big difference between marriage and committed relationship, and he DID assume Grace is in committed relationship (with ELLEN).

So he'd find the idea of sleeping with her loathsome, as he does, even if he didn't take her comment as a proposition, which he doesn't.  I fail to see how having slept with Noriko would make him react any differently to Grace's comment than he does, girlfriend or no.

 

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Also, from meta perspective, I expect Raven will end up advising main eight. IF he would be sleeping with Noriko while she was still married with Edward, noone would forgive him.

Really?  Grace was willing to forgive Damien; everyone forgave his minions.  You think they can't forgive a tryst that ran its course in their infancy?

 

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

... why shouldn't they be blonde?

Assuming they were half-sisters and that the will of magic were the only reason they look alike (and were born so close together), then you'd think they'd look like Raven's hypothetical daughter, the one whose resemblance to a post-perma-tf Susan inspired this whole notion.  Instead, they were both born platinum blondes, which is why I don't think they're half-sisters.

(Historically speaking, I expect to hear "they were born without hair" in 3... 2... 1...)

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May I suggest another possibility for Susan's origin: She's a changeling. Mrs. Pompoms had a stillbirth, but she was under full anesthetic, and Susan was substituted. Difficult to set up, but it would explain why no one, not Susan and not even her mom knows.

Horndog or not, Adrian can't be Tedd's father because Noriko told Adrian that Edward was Tedd's father. That doesn't rule out an affair between them that resulted in a sibling or siblings for Tedd, but Tedd is still Edward's son in every sense of the word.

I really don't understand how Susan can be ruled out as Adrian's child when Pandora went to see her right after her visit with Heka and after Pandora had never been shown with her or even knowing about her in the over fifteen years of plot development before that. And if Pandora didn't know about Diane at that point, we can be sure she now knows everything Jerry knows about Diane. The simplest explanation is that Pandora believed the lie she'd told herself about Adrian never being able to father children up until Heka told her whatever he told her.Show Reply

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