Story Monday, July 22, 2019

[Tom Sewell 268]

http://egscomics.com/comic/party-040

The return of the brain gag.

[ijuin 594]

"I've heard she's the devil, you know."

Better than the devil you don't know!

[weirdee 27]

but seriously, the counseling thing, for everybody. in moperville.

hell, get ellen to pop abraham out of his statue cause his stupid gemerald doesn't exist anymore. get him counseling too.

[Darth Fluffy 338]

1 hour ago, weirdee said:

but seriously, the counseling thing, for everybody. in moperville.

hell, get ellen to pop abraham out of his statue cause his stupid gemerald doesn't exist anymore. get him counseling too.

How can Ellen release Abraham?

[Pharaoh RutinTutin 1,619]

So Dan wants "Big Pants"?

Call Susan,

It's Hammer Time

[Scotty 1,061]

So the date felt like an actual date, Sarah's practically glowing without any visual glow, and she cannot elaborate on it because she's a "Gentle woman"?

Is Dan intentionally making it look like Sarah finally got laid?

I know this raises questions, did Sam tell Sarah he's trans and has a spell that lets him be his true self and Sarah was totally ok with it? Did Sam change his mind sometime after talking to Grace and decide to go for it with Sarah (he doesn't have to tell Sarah he's trans in this case, he did desire to just be treated naturally). Did they actually do the thing that Sarah doesn't want to elaborate on but equated it to a magic carpet ride in Aladdin?

In the case of if Sam told Sarah he was trans, he might not have mentioned telling Grace and so Sarah thinks she's keeping his secret from Grace. Grace could easily ask Sam about that (she's got his phone number) rather than risk giving away that secret herself in case Sam didn't tell Sarah.

2 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

How can Ellen release Abraham?

It's assumed that Abraham has already released himself or released by the diamond, or released by DGB wizards as Sybil was going to arrange for Arthur to talk to him.

[Darth Fluffy 338]

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

It's assumed that Abraham has already released himself or released by the diamond, or released by DGB wizards as Sybil was going to arrange for Arthur to talk to him.

Already released himself: I figured he'd be totally unaware while he's a statue; that it was the spell that put him there that was releasing him (like an AI) rather than his own efforts.

Released by the diamond: That seems particularly plausible, once the diamond is gone, his curse (if it is that) has not meaning. But it also seemed plausible that he could be stuck as a statue. It is also possible that he would awaken to take out Magus. Though Magus is naturally born, from the point of view of this universe, he's a suddenly released duplicate of Elliot.

DBG wizards: I had the impression that would be a temporary reprieve, but you make a good point, why not leave him freed. If they freed him; maybe they arranged to commune with him still as a statue. It was not entirely clear that they were successful.

Get Ellen to pop him out: This was stated in this thread (Weirdee, four posts up) and was what my question was asking about. I don't recall any power Ellen has that can release Abraham. Nor Magus, who is also named Ellen. Although we don't have a clear notion of his powers, they seem to be primarily combat oriented. 

Probably a moot point, I don't think Abraham is scheduled for another appearance.

[mlooney 3,594]

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

So the date felt like an actual date, Sarah's practically glowing without any visual glow, and she cannot elaborate on it because she's a "Gentle woman"?

Is Dan intentionally making it look like Sarah finally got laid?

Oh, you mean with some one other than Tedd and/or Grace.

[Scotty 1,061]

Just now, Darth Fluffy said:

Already released himself: I figured he'd be totally unaware while he's a statue; that it was the spell that put him there that was releasing him (like an AI) rather than his own efforts.

Released by the diamond: That seems particularly plausible, once the diamond is gone, his curse (if it is that) has not meaning. But it also seemed plausible that he could be stuck as a statue. It is also possible that he would awaken to take out Magus. Though Magus is naturally born, from the point of view of this universe, he's a suddenly released duplicate of Elliot.

DBG wizards: I had the impression that would be a temporary reprieve, but you make a good point, why not leave him freed. If they freed him; maybe they arranged to commune with him still as a statue. It was not entirely clear that they were successful.

Get Ellen to pop him out: This was stated in this thread (Weirdee, four posts up) and was what my question was asking about. I don't recall any power Ellen has that can release Abraham. Nor Magus, who is also named Ellen. Although we don't have a clear notion of his powers, they seem to be primarily combat oriented. 

Probably a moot point, I don't think Abraham is scheduled for another appearance.

The thing is though, the nature of Abraham's self imposed "hibernation" changed after his encounter with Nanase, it's was no longer "I rise only to reap what I have sown" and now it's "I rise only to atone for my sins" so it's pretty safe to say that Magus is in no danger of getting attacked by Abraham, however Arthur might ask Abraham to help track down Magus.

Just now, mlooney said:

Oh, you mean with some one other than Tedd and/or Grace.

I know, it goes against everything I believe about.

[Darth Fluffy 338]

5 hours ago, Scotty said:

The thing is though, the nature of Abraham's self imposed "hibernation" changed after his encounter with Nanase, it's was no longer "I rise only to reap what I have sown" and now it's "I rise only to atone for my sins" so it's pretty safe to say that Magus is in no danger of getting attacked by Abraham, however Arthur might ask Abraham to help track down Magus.

I don't recall specifically that Abraham's stoning is a self imposed hibernation, I took it to be an imposed punishment or curse, but it does not seem out of character for him that it could be self imposed. Do you recall if there is a specific place the comic or Dan's commentary said so? I didn't spot the inscription change either. ... it was even lamp shaded in the commentary.

... the change in the inscription seems to indicate the statue is self imposed. If it was external, it should not have changed.

OTOH, having just reread the commentary on the link you posted, I have to say, that hat is not a fedora, the brim is too narrow. It's a trilby.

... I don't see how Abraham is going to be aware of events while in statue form to release himself to atone. If he was going to atone to the people he recently hurt, he should have done something more proactive. Hiding in stone form isn't assisting anyone. It's more like he thinks he's atoning by ducking out.

 

5 hours ago, Scotty said:

9 hours ago, mlooney said:

Oh, you mean with some one other than Tedd and/or Grace.

I know, it goes against everything I believe about.

I kind of figured that Ellen and Nanase might be doing the nanasty. The level of disappointment when Grace asked to double date seemed to indicate thwarted expectations.

 

 

[Scotty 1,061]

10 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Do you recall if there is a specific place the comic or Dan's commentary said so?

There's this moment where Abraham describes himself as having "lain dormant in stone rising only to destroy the abominations created by the diamond." and that he had sworn to do so.

[Darth Fluffy 338]

8 minutes ago, Scotty said:

There's this moment where Abraham describes himself as having "lain dormant in stone rising only to destroy the abominations created by the diamond." and that he had sworn to do so.

It is interesting that he contrasts "lying dormant in stone" with "living". That implies he cannot self-launch out of stone, he has to preset the parameters of his own release. Which makes me wonder, what are the circumstances that would release him to atone. Since he's fixated on the dewitchery diamond, it would probably still be part of the formula.

[Scotty 1,061]

2 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

It is interesting that he contrasts "lying dormant in stone" with "living". That implies he cannot self-launch out of stone, he has to preset the parameters of his own release. Which makes me wonder, what are the circumstances that would release him to atone. Since he's fixated on the dewitchery diamond, it would probably still be part of the formula.

His encounter with Nanase forced him to think about his oath and what he was about to do, so it would be assumed that the next time the diamond was used, instead of seeking to destroy what was created, Abraham would try to determine if the creation was any threat first and then figure out whether he needs to intervene or not.

So Magus making Elliot touch the diamond again would likely have triggered Abraham's released, the diamond's destruction would mean that Abraham would never need to go back to stone, and Magus isn't really a threat to anyone, he doesn't have any desire to stay in this universe and just wants to get home, Arthur though, based on last appearance, probably wants to make sure Magus apologizes to Ashley, as Sybil pointed out, it could be argued that Magus was also a victim in all of that, so I don't see Arthur wanting to imprison Magus. Ellen and Magus probably don't see it that way though which is why Magus ran when the paranormal division started showing up.

Anyway, Abraham had a way of tracking the aura of whomever touched the diamond last which is how he found his way from Britain to Moperville, Magus' aura is probably very similar to Elliot's like Ellen's is (though maybe Ellen's has changed after getting infused with dragon power?) so knowing where Elliot and Ellen are in relation to a third aura might help find where Magus is.

[ijuin 594]

And Abraham would likely recognize Elliot’s aura, leading to a reaction of “What, AGAIN?! What is WITH you people?!”

[ChronosCat 158]

So, I've been thinking...

I'm anxious for Sam to reveal his lack of a desire to date / commit to a long-term relationship at this time in part because I'm concerned about Sarah's wellbeing (to an extent, though knowing Dan's writing largely mitigates that), and in part because I want Sarah free to join Tedd and Grace.

Grace is also anxious for Sam to reveal his secrets to Sarah, partly for Sarah's sake and partially so Grace doesn't have to keep so many secrets. But what if there was also a bit of subconscious jealousy or at least desire for Sarah in the equation as well? (I mean, the line a bout "the perfect woman" a few strips back sure makes it seem likely Grace does desire Sarah on some level, but my specific thought here is that desire is part of the reason Grace wants Sam to tell Sarah he doesn't want to date.)

[Scotty 1,061]

23 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:

So, I've been thinking...

I'm anxious for Sam to reveal his lack of a desire to date / commit to a long-term relationship at this time in part because I'm concerned about Sarah's wellbeing (to an extent, though knowing Dan's writing largely mitigates that), and in part because I want Sarah free to join Tedd and Grace.

Grace is also anxious for Sam to reveal his secrets to Sarah, partly for Sarah's sake and partially so Grace doesn't have to keep so many secrets. But what if there was also a bit of subconscious jealousy or at least desire for Sarah in the equation as well? (I mean, the line a bout "the perfect woman" a few strips back sure makes it seem likely Grace does desire Sarah on some level, but my specific thought here is that desire is part of the reason Grace wants Sam to tell Sarah he doesn't want to date.)

I think first and foremost, Grace desires Sarah to be happy. I don't doubt that Grace believes that Sarah can be happy with her and Tedd, hence the line about wishing that Sarah lived with her and Tedd, but I think that proves that it's not a subconscious desire, she seems well aware of her willingness to be there for Sarah, it's just that Sarah's currently focused on Sam and while Grace knows Sam's feelings on the subject, she's reluctantly letting things play out on their own, it sucks for Grace, and Sarah's probably going to end up getting hurt eventually, but it'd be better if Grace was there to help pick up the pieces rather than be the one to force the issue.

[Darth Fluffy 338]

8 hours ago, Scotty said:

His encounter with Nanase forced him to think about his oath and what he was about to do, so it would be assumed that the next time the diamond was used, instead of seeking to destroy what was created, Abraham would try to determine if the creation was any threat first and then figure out whether he needs to intervene or not.

So Magus making Elliot touch the diamond again would likely have triggered Abraham's released, the diamond's destruction would mean that Abraham would never need to go back to stone, and Magus isn't really a threat to anyone, he doesn't have any desire to stay in this universe and just wants to get home, Arthur though, based on last appearance, probably wants to make sure Magus apologizes to Ashley, as Sybil pointed out, it could be argued that Magus was also a victim in all of that, so I don't see Arthur wanting to imprison Magus. Ellen and Magus probably don't see it that way though which is why Magus ran when the paranormal division started showing up.

Anyway, Abraham had a way of tracking the aura of whomever touched the diamond last which is how he found his way from Britain to Moperville, Magus' aura is probably very similar to Elliot's like Ellen's is (though maybe Ellen's has changed after getting infused with dragon power?) so knowing where Elliot and Ellen are in relation to a third aura might help find where Magus is.

That works. "Atoning" would be still "Dealing with the mess I created". Presumably then, since the "diamond" is destroyed and Magus is the last one, and Abraham no longer feels compelled to be a statue.

I know Ellen is pissed at Magus, but I doubt she's without any sympathy. I think an acknowledgement and apology would be enough. Magus, on the other hand, probably wants to avoid all conflict and potential to do damage and incur further dept. He would probably seek out Elliot and Ellen to apologize before he leaves, he knows where they live, but not before he knows how to return to his home universe, for quick getaway. I'm sure we'll see him again.

 

3 hours ago, ijuin said:

And Abraham would likely recognize Elliot’s aura, leading to a reaction of “What, AGAIN?! What is WITH you people?!”

That had crossed my mind. Although "You people" is Elliot.

 

[Scotty 1,061]

10 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

I know Ellen is pissed at Magus, but I doubt she's without any sympathy. I think an acknowledgement and apology would be enough

She wants to talk to him, and then for him to just go home, I expect acknowledgment and apologies would be a part of that discussion.

12 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Magus, on the other hand, probably wants to avoid all conflict and potential to do damage and incur further dept. He would probably seek out Elliot and Ellen to apologize before he leaves, he knows where they live, but not before he knows how to return to his home universe, for quick getaway. I'm sure we'll see him again.

Both Ellen and Magus probably think that Arthur wants to imprison him or otherwise prevent him of returning home, what was said about Magus also being a victim was said outside of Ellen and Magus' earshot, so they're making assumptions, Magus might just be laying low for a bit, see what options he has in terms of finding a way home, and probably realize that he needs to come back and hope he can get help, Dan had also said that Magus' initial decision to "fix" Ellen was also based on assumptions and the feeling of guilt for everything, and maybe some time away will help him reflect on that more so that when he does come back and talk to Ellen he'd be prepared to accept whatever Ellen wishes.

[Darth Fluffy 338]

4 hours ago, Scotty said:

She wants to talk to him, and then for him to just go home, I expect acknowledgment and apologies would be a part of that discussion.

Both Ellen and Magus probably think that Arthur wants to imprison him or otherwise prevent him of returning home, what was said about Magus also being a victim was said outside of Ellen and Magus' earshot, so they're making assumptions, Magus might just be laying low for a bit, see what options he has in terms of finding a way home, and probably realize that he needs to come back and hope he can get help, Dan had also said that Magus' initial decision to "fix" Ellen was also based on assumptions and the feeling of guilt for everything, and maybe some time away will help him reflect on that more so that when he does come back and talk to Ellen he'd be prepared to accept whatever Ellen wishes.

Arthur's intentions are unclear, beyond pursuit and apprehension.  "He made a young woman cry, Sybil" doesn't speak about consequences. Personally, I think Arthur's logic leaves something to be desired. 

Magus was stuck in between universes, presumably Arthur understands at least the gist of this from the recordings. He overstepped some bounds in his efforts to free himself, but he didn't have options, that should be fairly clear, and he acted responsibly to clean up his mess, within the context of his understanding. He also took out Sirleck, who survived the purge and needed removal.

Ellen's placing blame on Magus here for the golem also makes little sense. She's technically correct, but the artifacts where on a hair trigger due to a change in magic that just happened, and Magus would not have known about. Arguably, they would have awakened from the ambient magic, but randomly at less convenient times, and by speeding it up, he made it possible for them to be dealt with. <shrug>, Once again, at least he's cleaning up his mess. It is significant that no one got hurt (I'm not counting the golem). And Kevin got a custodian, solving a problem for Arthur.

Ashley was stressed by the situation, and Magus did have some options in that regard, he could have for instance left her at Elliot's home. I'm not sure that would have been better. It is not really clear that Magus "made Ashley cry"; he was a factor, but so were the unstable artifacts, which Arthur should have known about, he was warned by magic, and though apparently he returned too late to have done much, he could have dispatched agents ahead instead of waiting. He appears to be at least as culpable through his inaction. Considering the massive existential trauma Magus has been through, "made Ashley cry" seems like small potatos; he was considerate of her feelings and sheltered her quite a bit.

It is not clear what Arthur's authority is in this. Presumably he's bound by some semblance of law, if not law, oversight, as Edward was. "Made a young woman cry", while unpleasant, does not sound like a prosecutable criminal offense. I could see an extralegal, "We need to incarcerate Magus and study him because he's from another universe", but I think they're past that kind of thinking. Also, his supervisor is already sensitized from Edward's overreaction to his subordinates reacting too emotionally to circumstances of their duties. It seems like Arthur is allowing his own emotions to carry him into similar ground. It seems the most that Arthur could do is give Magus a stern talking to; and even that would be a waste. Magus seems to be aware of the choices he's made and the consequences, a lecture from Arthur would add little.

If he really wanted to contribute, Arthur should track Magus down and offer to help research a way home.

 

 

 

 

[Scotty 1,061]

Just now, Darth Fluffy said:

Ellen's placing blame on Magus here for the golem also makes little sense. She's technically correct, but the artifacts where on a hair trigger due to a change in magic that just happened, and Magus would not have known about.

She's not blaming Magus specifically for the golem though, the "We wouldn't need saving" is in reference to being forced into this situation in general, they wouldn't need saving if Magus and Sirleck didn't possess them.

Just now, Darth Fluffy said:

which Arthur should have known about, he was warned by magic, and though apparently he returned too late to have done much, he could have dispatched agents ahead instead of waiting.

Arthur didn't know what was going on, when he got back from the meeting with the WoM, his first priority was to get staff out of the facility so that if any artifacts activated, they wouldn't hurt anyone, he had no idea that Magus and Sirleck had possesed Ellen and Elliot and taken them and Ashley there, he was probably in the process of getting agents mobilized and briefed when the golem leaving the facility set off the alarm, also most of the artifacts, at least the ones we saw, only activated when the diamond shattered and it's energy infused them. I think he acted well within his knowledge and to him, the situation at the facility was unknown, and not rushing in the moment he got back was a logical choice, if Magus and Sirleck hadn't taken Ellen, Elliot and Ashley to the facility and used the diamond, the place would have remained quiet, Arthur wasn't expecting outside interference.

[Darth Fluffy 338]

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

..., the place would have remained quiet, Arthur wasn't expecting outside interference.

Still a ticking time bomb with the increased ambient magic, or did he not have a reason to evacuate the facility?

[Pharaoh RutinTutin 1,619]

Security for the unpronounceable facility was hinged on the idea that no reasonable person would believe that such a facility was real.

The minimal security it did employ was largely for appearance.  It is quite possible that the guard who caught Tedd and Elliot (way back when) had no idea just how powerful the junk in that building actually was.  As far as he was concerned, he caught two teens pulling a stunt by breaking in to a "secret" government warehouse.

Arthur knew of many things in that facility that, if activated, could became hostile and break out before he could get there with heavily armed agents.  The low level security officers watching the front desk would not be able to stop them.  In that case, you would not have an escaped mystical menace, you would have an escaped mystical menace that had just killed the night watchman.

[Darth Fluffy 338]

10 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Security for the unpronounceable facility was hinged on the idea that no reasonable person would believe that such a facility was real.

The minimal security it did employ was largely for appearance.  It is quite possible that the guard who caught Tedd and Elliot (way back when) had no idea just how powerful the junk in that building actually was.  As far as he was concerned, he caught two teens pulling a stunt by breaking in to a "secret" government warehouse.

Arthur knew of many things in that facility that, if activated, could became hostile and break out before he could get there with heavily armed agents.  The low level security officers watching the front desk would not be able to stop them.  In that case, you would not have an escaped mystical menace, you would have an escaped mystical menace that had just killed the night watchman.

I mostly agree with most of what you are saying, but the question still stands, "Did Arthur know that the artifacts were a threat, and if so, why did he not beam the troops in without delay (He, Agent Cranium, and Agent Wolf responded almost immediately when the alarm triggered), or if not, why did he pull out the night watchman and leave the lights on (if he did not perceive a threat)?" He's inconsistent with either assumption of his knowledge.

The only ground I can see to resolve this, and it's weak, is "It's a hazard, let's pull the guard out; but everyone is tired, let's wait until tomorrow to deal with it." The only thing that supports that is he didn't know anyone would show up that particular evening. Telling the guard to watch from a vehicle might have made some sense.

It raises another point about how various agents at presumably disparate locations in their off hours were able to simultaneously teleport in on short notice. Kudos on the preparation that went into that level of coordination. (Agent Wolf fell into a crater because it was new and unexpected, that does not invalidate the preparation.)

 

 

[ijuin 594]

12 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Security for the unpronounceable facility was hinged on the idea that no reasonable person would believe that such a facility was real.

Note that Elliot’s initial reaction to hearing about the facility amounted to “You’re kidding, right?” That is probably the reaction that DGB expected from anybody who did not know about magic.

[Scotty 1,061]

23 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Still a ticking time bomb with the increased ambient magic, or did he not have a reason to evacuate the facility?

Arthur was worried about the safety of the staff working there yes, that also translates into worrying about the safety of his agents, he wasn't willing to just rush in to an unknown situation, his worst case scenario was that the facility would be a smoking crater after all, also there are apparently other facilities that housed potentially magic artifacts, and Arthur was cursing the fact that the organization was so compartmentalized that it'd be difficult to warn everyone. so it's not like Arthur was just sitting around doing nothing until the alarm went off, he had soo much he was trying to do, and since he didn't know that anyone would be making a run for the Diamond, of course he didn't have that facility as a priority.