story Story, Friday November 10, 2017

[Vorlonagent 442]

40 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I don't think it was, she just happened to notice his arrival and though she'd have some fun.

I think she'd be more regretful about the way she left him though.

Magus' departure from his own world broadly classifies as a "prank"...

[Scotty 1,061]

1 minute ago, Vorlonagent said:

Magus' departure from his own world broadly classifies as a "prank"...

I thought it was more like someone wanted him gone rather than just a prank, his disappearance took Terra by surprise so it wasn't her doing.

[Vorlonagent 442]

5 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I thought it was more like someone wanted him gone rather than just a prank, his disappearance took Terra by surprise so it wasn't her doing.

It took magus by surprise too...  

Note the "Bon voage" label....

[Tom Sewell 268]

2 hours ago, Illjwamh said:

I remember when I first read that strip all those years ago, I assumed Magus was an alternate Elliot from yet another universe.

You are not alone.

 

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

I think she'd be more regretful about the way she left him though.

That would be nice, but Pandora has had a few things on her mind since then, and there's no proof that Pandora has seen Magus at all since Sister II. Plus, Magus was basically a total jerk until until he refused to kill Abraham. Pandora might have given Magus that booby-trapped potion to teach Magus a Beauty-and-the-Beast-type lesson

 

5 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

I always considered option two the most likely, but the three images of Elliot in panel three make me wonder if option three might be in play.

. Actually upon further inspection I see four images. The one furthest back, with arms not very far from his sides, are Elliot. Elliot's hair looks a bit longer and fuller than Magus', and he's more heavily built. The other three, proceeding from black to light to very light (why I didn't notice it at first) are Magus; the light and lighter images are partial clones of the black version of Magus, with arms outstretched wide and heat thrown back. Elliot's head is turned down, as it would be looking down the stairs.

Maybe we will have three sisters. Or more. Since the three distinct alter-egos are much like different persons, how about six? Seven for Cheerleadra? Eight for the pink-haired girl?

The Dunkels may need a bigger house, unless they git Rhoda to downsize all the Elliots.

[hkmaly 490]

10 hours ago, Scotty said:

Sirleck probably considers Ashley to not be any threat to him.

And may not even notice her, if she isn't just behind Elliot.

10 hours ago, Scotty said:

Speaking of magic though, it's probably correct to assume that Magus is able to use his abilities while in Elliot's body, whether he also can use Elliot's abilities as well is another thing but it might be possible, the question would be whether Magus can access Elliot's knowledge which would seem to be how Sirleck is able to use Ellen's abilities.

10 hours ago, Scotty said:

Since we already have clear evidence that Sirleck can use his host's abilities, jumping to Magus/Elliot now would give him access to those abilities, which would make him a formidable opponent.

Note that Sirleck controlling Magus/Elliot will have control over MAGUS abilities, but not necessarily Elliot's.

10 hours ago, Scotty said:

Ashley would be wise to try to get warning to someone (Nanase, Susan, Sarah, Tedd?). My guess is when Sirleck takes off after possessing Magus/Elliot, Ashley will rush over to Ellen to see if she's ok and then probably use Ellen's cellphone to contact someone.

Hmmm ... Ashley don't actually knows about Tedd. My guess is she tries to contact Nanase.

8 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Also, it seems to have been Pandora, not Sirleck, who told Magus that the dewitchery diamond was still part of the plan to recover his own body after it had already been used to create Ellen. My theory on how that would work is that Elliot-Magus has to touch that diamond again to split apart.

Wait, there are any doubts about this? I though this is clear.

8 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Pandora didn't mention what sex Magus would be when the process completed.

Magus might not care anymore.

6 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Magus's actions now that he can interact with the normal world will, of course, have a huge impact on how willing to help him everyone will be.  If he prevents Sirleck from hurting Ashley, for example.  I picture Ashley hearing an argument between Magus and Sirleck, possibly about whether to kill her

... or possibly about ELLEN.

May not even be serious argument. Just hearing "And now leave her and I hope she will be ok" - "Whatever, I don't know why you care" will tell her a lot.

5 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

I've said it at least once before on this forum, but it bears repeating here: I don't think Magus has any idea that Sirleck is sending vampires to kill Pandora's son.

We may also repeat that neither does Sirleck.

5 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

I've been expecting (and looking forward to) this to happen in Sister III since the Sister III title page...

I've expected Magus will make Ellen hit Elliot. I didn't expected he convinces Sirleck to possess Ellen and help him.

12 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

That would be nice, but Pandora has had a few things on her mind since then, and there's no proof that Pandora has seen Magus at all since Sister II. Plus, Magus was basically a total jerk until until he refused to kill Abraham. Pandora might have given Magus that booby-trapped potion to teach Magus a Beauty-and-the-Beast-type lesson

I don't think Pandora can visits other words. She's too bored for that.

However, it might've been Pandora's alternate in that universe ...

12 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

Actually upon further inspection I see four images. The one furthest back, with arms not very far from his sides, are Elliot. Elliot's hair looks a bit longer and fuller than Magus', and he's more heavily built. The other three, proceeding from black to light to very light (why I didn't notice it at first) are Magus; the light and lighter images are partial clones of the black version of Magus, with arms outstretched wide and heat thrown back. Elliot's head is turned down, as it would be looking down the stairs.

That's just Magus at three different times, not three versions of Magus. IMHO it's the "Magus merged with Elliot" option.

12 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

Maybe we will have three sisters. Or more. Since the three distinct alter-egos are much like different persons, how about six? Seven for Cheerleadra? Eight for the pink-haired girl?

Why? Those other enchantments are not ACTIVE and won't be when Magus will be touching dewitchery diamond.

We will have three sisters of course - Ellen, Elliot and Magus. And Magus is unlikely to stay at Dunkel's and sleep with them in same room.

(Also, with Magus's plan going as predicted, the probability the magic reset will happen as predicted went up ...)

 

[Scotty 1,061]

15 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

That would be nice, but Pandora has had a few things on her mind since then, and there's no proof that Pandora has seen Magus at all since Sister II. Plus, Magus was basically a total jerk until until he refused to kill Abraham. Pandora might have given Magus that booby-trapped potion to teach Magus a Beauty-and-the-Beast-type lesson

We don't know that Magus was a total jerk. His predicament certainly makes him desperate, but we've no evidence that he was not a nice guy before getting stuck in limbo. The wizards duel between Magus and Terra before hand still strikes me as very similar to Elliot and Nanase's sparring matches, and their dialog was strictly for dramatic effect.

[Tom Sewell 268]

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

We don't know that Magus was a total jerk. His predicament certainly makes him desperate, but we've no evidence that he was not a nice guy before getting stuck in limbo. The wizards duel between Magus and Terra before hand still strikes me as very similar to Elliot and Nanase's sparring matches, and their dialog was strictly for dramatic effect.

Yes, sparring, and Magus tried to cheat with that potion. It's hard to tell with the background art but it looks to me as if it took place in a stadium, which means it was a regular event. Events like that have rules,  and Magus broke at least one.

BTW, "Magus" isn't specifically a personal name, it's a title. The Magi were Zoroastrian priests; "magus" is simply the singular of the Latin version. For all we know, Magus' actual name could be Elliot. Maybe the Magus is the reigning champ at what's obviously a magical college. Either this one doesn't have quidditch or it wasn't the quidditch season.

[Don Edwards 548]

18 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

Yes, sparring, and Magus tried to cheat with that potion. It's hard to tell with the background art but it looks to me as if it took place in a stadium, which means it was a regular event. Events like that have rules,  and Magus broke at least one.

How do you know he broke a rule? Where were these rules documented?

18 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

BTW, "Magus" isn't specifically a personal name, it's a title. The Magi were Zoroastrian priests; "magus" is simply the singular of the Latin version. For all we know, Magus' actual name could be Elliot. Maybe the Magus is the reigning champ at what's obviously a magical college. Either this one doesn't have quidditch or it wasn't the quidditch season.

In our world, that's the norm - but lots of things that were once titles or jobs are now (also or primarily) used as names. So the same thing could have happened to the term "Magus" in his world. Or perhaps it always was a name.

[Tom Sewell 268]

2 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:

25 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

Yes, sparring, and Magus tried to cheat with that potion. It's hard to tell with the background art but it looks to me as if it took place in a stadium, which means it was a regular event. Events like that have rules,  and Magus broke at least one.

How do you know he broke a rule? Where were these rules documented?

Because in all fair contests, sports or duels to the death, one opponent may not use anything that the other cannot use. Boxers may not use brass knuckles. Racing animals may not be doped. Duels are fought with the same weapons--matched weapons when available, randomly chosen from an identical pair. Jousters must have lances of the same length.

11 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:

34 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

BTW, "Magus" isn't specifically a personal name, it's a title. The Magi were Zoroastrian priests; "magus" is simply the singular of the Latin version. For all we know, Magus' actual name could be Elliot. Maybe the Magus is the reigning champ at what's obviously a magical college. Either this one doesn't have quidditch or it wasn't the quidditch season.

In our world, that's the norm - but lots of things that were once titles or jobs are now (also or primarily) used as names. So the same thing could have happened to the term "Magus" in his world. Or perhaps it always was a name.

Fair enough. There are quite a few men--and more dogs--named King, Rex, and Duke. But it could still be a title, quite appropriate to someone studying at a school of magic. There's even a uniform. And it has a tie. Except for the magic, I don't think this alternate world seems all that different from ours.

[hkmaly 490]

1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:

Yes, sparring, and Magus tried to cheat with that potion. It's hard to tell with the background art but it looks to me as if it took place in a stadium, which means it was a regular event. Events like that have rules,  and Magus broke at least one.

It looks like it took place in an EMPTY stadium, suggesting they were sparing after time.

However, it still seems like he tried to cheat.

1 hour ago, Don Edwards said:

1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:

BTW, "Magus" isn't specifically a personal name, it's a title. The Magi were Zoroastrian priests; "magus" is simply the singular of the Latin version. For all we know, Magus' actual name could be Elliot. Maybe the Magus is the reigning champ at what's obviously a magical college. Either this one doesn't have quidditch or it wasn't the quidditch season.

In our world, that's the norm - but lots of things that were once titles or jobs are now (also or primarily) used as names. So the same thing could have happened to the term "Magus" in his world. Or perhaps it always was a name.

Yes. With the exception of few which were names and then became titles, like Caesar or Charles - I mean, not in english, but there are languages where that happened.

1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:

Fair enough. There are quite a few men--and more dogs--named King, Rex, and Duke. But it could still be a title, quite appropriate to someone studying at a school of magic. There's even a uniform. And it has a tie.

Yeah, just because it can be name doesn't mean it is.

1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:

Because in all fair contests, sports or duels to the death, one opponent may not use anything that the other cannot use.

With the exception of stuff like goal keeper - sure, both opponent teams have one, but when training, you can be confused by two people training against each other with different rules. Or, well, baseball - the teams are alternating in what "weapons" they use.

Note that Terra was flying. It IS possible the flying was not just cool power she has but because she was "attacker" and Magus was "defender".

[Tom Sewell 268]

9 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Note that Terra was flying. It IS possible the flying was not just cool power she has but because she was "attacker" and Magus was "defender".

Or maybe the material Magus was groundbound and Terra wasn't.

I used to have the Blu-ray edition of The Incredibles and early in development a standing gag was going to be all the other members of Mr. Incredible's family could fly but he couldn't.

[Don Edwards 548]

1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:

Because in all fair contests, sports or duels to the death, one opponent may not use anything that the other cannot use. Boxers may not use brass knuckles. Racing animals may not be doped. Duels are fought with the same weapons--matched weapons when available, randomly chosen from an identical pair. Jousters must have lances of the same length.

And where were you told that Terra was not allowed to possess and use similar devices in that competition?

All you can say for sure is that we were not shown that she attempted to use one. Considering how little of the contest we were shown, that's meaningless.

I would agree that he may have been cheating. There's certainly no proof he wasn't. But I don't think we've been shown any actual evidence that he was.

[hkmaly 490]

4 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:

1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:

Because in all fair contests, sports or duels to the death, one opponent may not use anything that the other cannot use. Boxers may not use brass knuckles. Racing animals may not be doped. Duels are fought with the same weapons--matched weapons when available, randomly chosen from an identical pair. Jousters must have lances of the same length.

And where were you told that Terra was not allowed to possess and use similar devices in that competition?

All you can say for sure is that we were not shown that she attempted to use one. Considering how little of the contest we were shown, that's meaningless.

I would agree that he may have been cheating. There's certainly no proof he wasn't. But I don't think we've been shown any actual evidence that he was.

The question is even harder: it is possible they are allowed to use some device like this, BUT the one Magus used was not official one but rigged (I mean, it was supposed to be rigged in different way than it was).

[Tom Sewell 268]

Panel 2: More evidence of Magus being a jerk.

[hkmaly 490]

9 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

Panel 2: More evidence of Magus being a jerk.

Because he's admitting he may prefer men when in woman form? I mean, considering the hypothesis HE's Elliot ...

Maybe not even just in woman form. Maybe he's homosexual.

[Scotty 1,061]

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

3 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Yes, sparring, and Magus tried to cheat with that potion. It's hard to tell with the background art but it looks to me as if it took place in a stadium, which means it was a regular event. Events like that have rules,  and Magus broke at least one.

It looks like it took place in an EMPTY stadium, suggesting they were sparing after time.

However, it still seems like he tried to cheat.

3 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Because in all fair contests, sports or duels to the death, one opponent may not use anything that the other cannot use. Boxers may not use brass knuckles. Racing animals may not be doped. Duels are fought with the same weapons--matched weapons when available, randomly chosen from an identical pair. Jousters must have lances of the same length.

What if using that potion wasn't cheating though, what if before the match Magus went to Terra was said "Hey, I just got this new defence potion recipe! wanna test it out?" and it turned out the recipe wasn't for a defence potion after all. Magus did say he was an alchemist too (he even claimed to know how to turn straw into gold).

 

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:

Panel 2: More evidence of Magus being a jerk.

Because he's admitting he may prefer men when in woman form? I mean, considering the hypothesis HE's Elliot ...

Maybe not even just in woman form. Maybe he's homosexual.

I took the whole thing as him speaking that way out of frustration over not being able to do anything. Maybe Magus knows someone in his world that's like Nanase, but male.

[Tom Sewell 268]

Responding to hkmally and Scotty about Elliot's gender identity vs. Magus' (Can't seem to get your quotes in without a lot of other stuff.)

The way I interpret Panel 2--and I know that Magus is considerably frustrated, with reason--is that he sees Nanase as the way he viewed Terra: A female stronger and more forceful than females are supposed to be. You can see back in Hidden Genesis Terra is actually concerned about Magus—maybe even fond of him—but not willing to submit to him, just as Nanase won't. And, also, Magus may have had feelings for Terra—if only she wasn't so darned unladylike in competing with him. So he may see another Terra in Nanase.

But suppose Magus really wants to be a woman and is doing this because, consciously or unconsciously, he's jealous of Terra and Nanase because of that. He's still being a jerk.

And that is why Pandora might take especial pleasure in acting like a jerk to Magus--although she did kind of admit she'd gone to far when she lashed out at Magus when he refused to kill Abraham. Compare Magus to Adrian, Pandora's son. He's had centuries of frustration and real danger. There's no evidence that Magus, a young man, maybe Elliot's age or younger, was ever in any real danger until Pandora really lost it with him. I think Magus would look at him the same way as I do: a spoiled brat with huge potential and some conscience who needs to learn a hard lesson or three.

[Scotty 1,061]

57 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

The way I interpret Panel 2--and I know that Magus is considerably frustrated, with reason--is that he sees Nanase as the way he viewed Terra: A female stronger and more forceful than females are supposed to be. You can see back in Hidden Genesis Terra is actually concerned about Magus—maybe even fond of him—but not willing to submit to him, just as Nanase won't. And, also, Magus may have had feelings for Terra—if only she wasn't so darned unladylike in competing with him. So he may see another Terra in Nanase.

That feels too much like the opposite of Elliot and Nanase's relationship though. The whole duel between Terra and Magus feels like they're trying to have fun with it, and it wouldn't bee the first time Dan's had characters act that way for fun, first obvious one was Elliot and Nanase, but we also have Grace and Tedd with the TFG, well Grace tried to be dramatic about it. Thing is, we don't see Terra gloating over Magus' disappearance, and we don't see Magus cursing Terra specifically either, (yes he knows he was sabotaged, but he doesn't state any belief that Terra was responsible for it)

In fact if anything is opposite in the Elliot/Nanase vs Magus/Terra department, it's the personalities, Terra is more like Elliot in that she was probably afraid of hurting someone with her power, and Magus is more like Nanase and was pushing Terra to not hold back.

Who knows what would have happened if Greg didn't intervene (and break down) during Elliot and Nanase's demonstration.

57 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

But suppose Magus really wants to be a woman and is doing this because, consciously or unconsciously, he's jealous of Terra and Nanase because of that. He's still being a jerk.

If Magus wants to be a woman, why didn't the FV5 beam not turn Elliot into a female? We all assumed that if Ellen ever did zap Elliot then Magus would end up being female even after touching the diamond, but that doesn't appear to be the case anymore, so why?

1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:

And that is why Pandora might take especial pleasure in acting like a jerk to Magus--although she did kind of admit she'd gone to far when she lashed out at Magus when he refused to kill Abraham. Compare Magus to Adrian, Pandora's son. He's had centuries of frustration and real danger. There's no evidence that Magus, a young man, maybe Elliot's age or younger, was ever in any real danger until Pandora really lost it with him. I think Magus would look at him the same way as I do: a spoiled brat with huge potential and some conscience who needs to learn a hard lesson or three.

Pandora jerked Magus around during their time together, which contributed to Magus' frustration, Magus has some morals as he refused to make Edward kill Abraham despite the possibility of Abraham getting in the way again later. And Magus also went to Sirleck aware that it was a bad decision but that he didn't have any other choice since he couldn't trust any Immortal to genuinely want to help him.

[The Old Hack 2,448]

32 minutes ago, Scotty said:

If Magus wants to be a woman, why didn't the FV5 beam not turn Elliot into a female? We all assumed that if Ellen ever did zap Elliot then Magus would end up being female even after touching the diamond, but that doesn't appear to be the case anymore, so why?

We only see Magus' head and shoulders, and not much of the shoulders. The superficial impression is male but that may be because he was male in all the other images on the page. In other words, insufficient data.

[Scotty 1,061]

Just now, The Old Hack said:

We only see Magus' head and shoulders, and not much of the shoulders. The superficial impression is male but that may be because he was male in all the other images on the page. In other words, insufficient data.

I'm going by the third panel showing Magus being pushed into Elliot's body, one would expect Elliot to be growing boobs at that point right?

[The Old Hack 2,448]

Just now, Scotty said:

I'm going by the third panel showing Magus being pushed into Elliot's body, one would expect Elliot to be growing boobs at that point right?

Certainly you can have the expectation, it just isn't proof.

[Scotty 1,061]

1 minute ago, The Old Hack said:

Certainly you can have the expectation, it just isn't proof.

I guess it is also possible that it wasn't the FV5 beam being used, and Sirleck simply used one of Ellen's many minor transformation beams, like Blonder!

[Tom Sewell 268]

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Pandora jerked Magus around during their time together, which contributed to Magus' frustration, Magus has some morals as he refused to make Edward kill Abraham despite the possibility of Abraham getting in the way again later. And Magus also went to Sirleck aware that it was a bad decision but that he didn't have any other choice since he couldn't trust any Immortal to genuinely want to help him.

Yes, Pandora did jerk Magus around. And she overdid it. When has Pandora not overdone anything? And, yes, Magus was showing his very best when he refused to kill Abraham, even if it might mean he would never get his body back. But that was as good as he ever got. He realizes his team-up with Sirleck is going to hurt or kill innocent people, but it seems to be going ahead without Magus doing anything more than asking Sirleck to minimize the death toll and bemoaning that he has to do this thing. I'm giving Magus a break by assuming he doesn't know that Pandora's son is supposed to be killed. That's taking revenge against Pandora a bit too far, don't you think?

[Scotty 1,061]

1 minute ago, Tom Sewell said:

He realizes his team-up with Sirleck is going to hurt or kill innocent people, but it seems to be going ahead without Magus doing anything more than asking Sirleck to minimize the death toll and bemoaning that he has to do this thing. I'm giving Magus a break by assuming he doesn't know that Pandora's son is supposed to be killed. That's taking revenge against Pandora a bit too far, don't you think?

Yeah the whole "don't kill anyone but the target" seems like something Magus would insist upon, maybe he expects Adrian to be able to successfully defend himself, but there's no evidence that he's aware that Adrian is the target. Though if he is aware, he might hold back that info in the hopes that not only would Pandora take out Sirleck in her rage, but that her rage would cause her to break Immortal Law and have the other Immortals force her to reset. Two birds with one stone.

Mind you considering the Aberrations are allowed to go after vampire hunters that kinda puts a snag into Magus's desire to stick to one potential death. But then again according to their last conversation, Magus' original plan was to have some aberrations in Moperville to distract Helena and Demetrius, and then Sirleck altered that plan to bring in more aberrations. Magus is again showing that he doesn't like it by expressing that he's responsible for anyone they hurt.

[Cpt. Obvious 73]

10 hours ago, Scotty said:

What if using that potion wasn't cheating though, what if before the match Magus went to Terra was said "Hey, I just got this new defence potion recipe! wanna test it out?" and it turned out the recipe wasn't for a defence potion after all. Magus did say he was an alchemist too (he even claimed to know how to turn straw into gold).

 

I took the whole thing as him speaking that way out of frustration over not being able to do anything. Maybe Magus knows someone in his world that's like Nanase, but male.

To me this looked a lot like Magus was frustrated and prepared to try just about anything to get more power, including using "forbidden" magic. Not entirely unlike Noah, only he didn't have an Adrian Raven to keep him in check. Forbidden magic tends to be forbidden for a reason. Either it is something like the Cruciatus curse in the Harry Potter universe, a spell intended to cause intense and excruciating pain to the degree that the subject can die or suffer severe mental damage, or it's unstable and likely to misfire in spectacular and dangerous ways if the casting isn't performed perfectly. Even so it seems students often search for these forbidden spells and curses believing that learning the secrets will make them more powerful. One such case was Sparrowhawk in the Earthsea. When provoked to duel with an older student he manages to get access to books about forbidden magic and tries to use one of these with quite terrifying results.