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The Old Hack

Story Wednesday March 14, 2018

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:

This I'm not entirely sure of, mainly because I'm not sure if she could have predicted Tedd being able to convince the WoM to open up magic the way it did. I'm not even sure if Heka actually told Pandora what the second purpose of a Seer is, he did mention there being a second purpose, but suggested that he didn't want to risk Tedd becoming ineligible for it, and Pandora seemed to concede to his judgement.

Yes, that makes my last speculation less plausible. But still, maybe not impossible, if The Dan wills it so.

7 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:

Pandora had no idea there was any risk of a Magic Change (and had forgotten they were a possibility) until well after she parted ways with Magus. So unless as Scotty suggested there's been a reconciliation between the two of them we never saw, she must have told Magus about the exploding Diamond long before she knew about the Magic Change, and in that case the exploding Diamond and the Magic Change must be unrelated.

Again, my latest premises seem less plausible unless Pandora wasn't quite up to her borderline psychic level when she doesn't even remember who Tedd is. Of course, she remembered who Tedd was a Moperverse week ago, and when she visited Grace's dreams

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I screwed up and sent my last post before I really wanted to. Anyway, the basic premise I was working on was that Pandora could have set up this whole sequence in a state so near to having true psychic power that she predicted how she would react at lower states when she didn't remember doing it. Sort of ties into the whole concept for resetting for Immortals and Pandora not remembering Tedd all the time.

Which is all a huge stretch, but The Dan might make it. Might.

Pandora knows about vampires targeting her son in Apocalypse but doesn't seem to know how many. If she recontacted Magus, Pandora would have known about the attack on Adrian from Magus, but only about two vampires.  Magus has a good reason to warn Pandora: he wants to destroy her by forcing her to reset. And since Magus got in trouble with Pandora for not helping her kill Abraham, it follows Magus doesn't want to kill Adrian simply to get Pandora to reset. The only problem I see is I'm not sure Magus could have found Pandora.

am sure Pandora could have found Magus and Sirleck if she'd wanted to.

But what about Voltaire? Voltaire is the one who told Sirleck about Adrian Raven being Pandora's son. Magus already knew that, but since Sirleck was surprised to hear that, Magus hadn't told Sirleck at the end of So a Date at the Mall. 

Maybe I've been wrong about Magus planning to force Pandora to reset? Maybe he was thinking he could actually destroy Pandora with his own magic once he got back his own body.

Doesn't add up yet, for me.

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3 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

That leads me to another speculation: Is the possibility of the diamond exploding related to the change in magic that has reactivated all enchantments from before previous changes?  That seems pretty appropriate to me now, although Magus didn't seem to have that possibility in mind when he noted that the artifacts in the other boxes didn't seem to be as useless or as inert as he expected in the last two panels of the comic for Friday, March 9.

Could Pandora have expected that if the plan worked at all magic would have changed and she would have caused that change with her final spell during her reset?

Unlikely. Pandora didn't even KNEW about the possibility of magic reset when she last talked to Magus (no, I don't think she talked to him again after Egypt ; I think she was VERY busy then).

Also, I think her "borderline psychic" is overstatement. It may seem that way to mortals, but I don't think she's actually able to predict future, and the magic reset seems like something which would be hard to predict.

3 hours ago, Scotty said:

didn't it seem fishy that Pandora arrived just in time to warn Adrian about the vampires, how did she know they were about to attack?

Seems possible she is able to see them.

35 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

If she recontacted Magus, Pandora would have known about the attack on Adrian from Magus, but only about two vampires.  Magus has a good reason to warn Pandora: he wants to destroy her by forcing her to reset. And since Magus got in trouble with Pandora for not helping her kill Abraham, it follows Magus doesn't want to kill Adrian simply to get Pandora to reset. The only problem I see is I'm not sure Magus could have found Pandora.

Magus himself didn't knew the elf being targeted is Adrian. He wouldn't risk it AND neither would Sirleck if Magus told him.

36 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

Maybe I've been wrong about Magus planning to force Pandora to reset? Maybe he was thinking he could actually destroy Pandora with his own magic once he got back his own body.

Even if it's actually possible to destroy fairy more permanently than with forced reset, I don't think Magus have that kind of power.

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Magus himself didn't knew the elf being targeted is Adrian. He wouldn't risk it AND neither would Sirleck if Magus told him.

How many elves live in Moperville? Magus found out Mr. Raven was Pandora's son back in Sister II, long before Voltaire made his phone call to Sirleck in So a Date at the Mall.

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Even if it's actually possible to destroy fairy more permanently than with forced reset, I don't think Magus have that kind of power.

I don't think so either, but maybe Magus believes it, or did believe it. Magus' top priority is getting his own body, not stealing someone else's like Sirleck. Why else would Magus be about to touch the Dewitchery Diamond now? But any vampire attack is going to distract Helena and Demetrius from watching Elliot, so why is the attack on Adrian included in Magus' plan at all?

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Emerald? I'd think that Sirleck would know enough about precious gems to know that it's what they're made of, not their color, which determines what kind of gem they are. Diamonds are made of nearly-pure carbon, while emeralds are made out of beryl (beryllium aluminum silicate).

 

10 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

That leads me to another speculation: Is the possibility of the diamond exploding related to the change in magic that has reactivated all enchantments from before previous changes?  That seems pretty appropriate to me now, although Magus didn't seem to have that possibility in mind when he noted that the artifacts in the other boxes didn't seem to be as useless or as inert as he expected in the last two panels of the comic for Friday, March 9.

Ooh, I like that idea--that the "useless" items are more active than expected because of Magic having reactivated the surviving magical items from before the previous change.

5 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

How many elves live in Moperville? Magus found out Mr. Raven was Pandora's son back in Sister II, long before Voltaire made his phone call to Sirleck in So a Date at the Mall.

I don't think so either, but maybe Magus believes it, or did believe it. Magus' top priority is getting his own body, not stealing someone else's like Sirleck. Why else would Magus be about to touch the Dewitchery Diamond now? But any vampire attack is going to distract Helena and Demetrius from watching Elliot, so why is the attack on Adrian included in Magus' plan at all?

IIRC, Sirleck decided on his own to target Adrian after being informed of Adrian's identity. Magus just wanted a big enough distraction to keep any Immortals off his back for long enough to get the job done.

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2 hours ago, ijuin said:

IRC, Sirleck decided on his own to target Adrian after being informed of Adrian's identity. Magus just wanted a big enough distraction to keep any Immortals off his back for long enough to get the job done.

Also, I'm sure that the only reason Voltaire told him about Adrian, is because then the attack would atract Pandora, and make her break Imortal law by protecting her son.

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Remember, Sirleck was told that Adrian was probably the son of one of a pair of very-recently-reset Immortals, not that he was the son of one of the most powerful Immortals in many centuries.

If the wooden core of the crystal is a wand, I wonder if Ashley will be the one to pick it up and use it?  Or will someone else use it on Ashley?  Hmm, perhaps Sirleck uses it on Ashley while still in Ellen's body, and that's how we get another Ellen?

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Helen and Demetrius have known Susan and Nanase killed an aberration for their previous selves in France since Sister II.  There's no proof in canon that they know about Adrian or even Pandora, so upon detecting a vampire. Lady Andrea is on the other side of Moperearth along with her formidable wife Dame Tara for 23 more days, so there's only one proven vampire-liquidation team in Moperville we're sure they know about: Susan and Nanase. So why didn't at least one of them show up at the mall to get Susan? Getting them to go to the mall and therefore away from Elliot so Ellen can zap her brother with Magus in between them is the whole point of the plan, isn't it?

So where the heck were they???!!!

I know I've suggested before that Helen and Demetrius are still following Elliot and allowed Magus and Sirleck get as far as they have so far. But being Immortals, that also means they should have been caught up in Pandora's Last Spell. Even Voltaire should have been caught up. So they must have put on a very distant tail or Sirleck would be a nasty pile of ashes in Ellen and Elliot's old Prius instead of sneering behind Magus' back. Maybe there was a fail-safe for body-snatchers to protect their human victims?

BTW, this is an example of the kind of old Prius that Elliot and Ellen own.

original-prius.png

I test-drove one of these a long time ago now. As you can see, it doesn't have the distinctive look shared by all Priuses now, it has the same body as the Toyota Echo. It was still a new car when Sister came out.  

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Sirleck didn't say how close the "lights in the sky" were, did he?  If Helena and Demitirus were still following Sirleck and Magus, and Sirleck were immune to the effects of the Aberration-destruction because he's on a different plane while possessing Ellen, then H & D would have been hit by Pandora's spell and become lights in the sky very close to where they were driving at the relevant moment.  They'd have left them behind pretty quickly if they were on an interstate, but they'd have been plenty close enough for Sirleck to feel like he'd dodged a bullet.  And once the spell was over, they'd have to try to figure out where the car they'd been following went, if they were in any shape to do so.

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Just now, CritterKeeper said:

If the wooden core of the crystal is a wand, I wonder if Ashley will be the one to pick it up and use it?  Or will someone else use it on Ashley?  Hmm, perhaps Sirleck uses it on Ashley while still in Ellen's body, and that's how we get another Ellen?

If the core is a wand, then it's quite possible the crystal "shell" might have been a seal to prevent people from using it, especially if it was particularly dangerous in the wrong hands.

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47 minutes ago, Scotty said:

If the core is a wand, then it's quite possible the crystal "shell" might have been a seal to prevent people from using it, especially if it was particularly dangerous in the wrong hands.

Ooh, possibly a wand of transforming people.  Possibly something that Ashley might pick up.  Now, would an older artifact be capable of influencing it's wielder (as depicted in fantasy literature and media, such as the One Ring, Stormbringer, Death Note, Hand of Vecna and the Holy Hand Grenade)?  If so, would it be able to influence the Ashley to use it, someone who is probably closer to a Lawful Good Paladin in terms of personal code than Elliot is, despite her inner fantasy life being more Chaotic Good with Neutral tendencies (hmm, Bugs Bunnyish perhaps, the Karmic Trickster  - warning, link to TV Tropes, browse at your own risk).  And finally, what if said wand transformed people with a ticking clock such that you must change back before the change becomes permanent?  Best make sure said wand doesn't fall into the wrong Seer's hands.

Just a thought.  ;)

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9 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Sirleck didn't say how close the "lights in the sky" were, did he?  If Helena and Demitirus were still following Sirleck and Magus, and Sirleck were immune to the effects of the Aberration-destruction because he's on a different plane while possessing Ellen, then H & D would have been hit by Pandora's spell and become lights in the sky very close to where they were driving at the relevant moment.  They'd have left them behind pretty quickly if they were on an interstate, but they'd have been plenty close enough for Sirleck to feel like he'd dodged a bullet.  And once the spell was over, they'd have to try to figure out where the car they'd been following went, if they were in any shape to do so.

If Sirleck is immune to the Aberration-destruction spell while he's on the same plane as Magus was, he's also visible to any Immortals on that plane and they are not restricted to empower-and-guide; that seems to apply only to humans on the material plane. Sirleck could be attacked by any Immortal who wants to while he's on the same plane as Magus was trapped in with no restrictions we know about; certainly three out of the five named Immortals we know about did exactly that.

So if Sirleck is "safely" on that different plane, the only reason Helena and Demetrius couldn't find him and attack him at any time is that it would affect his current host and that's a violation of the empower-and-guide rule for humans. On the other hand, they shouldn't have any trouble tracking him. They tracked Magus to France, didn't they?

So was it dumb luck that they were far enough away not to flame Sirleck and probably crash the car in the process?

Wait a minute. The Lights in the Sky happened just as Pandora was resetting. Weren't the vampires supposed to distract Helena and Demetrius so Sirleck and Demetrius could get close enough to do their thing to Elliot? But shouldn't the lights have appeared very soon after the attacks? Too soon for Magus and Sirleck to get out in the boonies? Maybe even before they would have gotten unconscious Ashley back into her jacket and into the back seat of the old Prius?

The last time (that we know of) that Helena and Demetrius sent a Hunter after an Aberration was in So a Date at the Mall, which was only six days ago in Moperverse time. And the last time we saw Helena and Demetrius was at that mall after Dame Tara revealed herself, after she attacked Elliot, and after Voltaire made himself visible to the entire mall in a try to keep Ashley from talking Dame Tara out of continuing her attacks. So they were shadowing Elliot all along.

After Lady Andrea and Dame Tara destroyed the spider vampire and met with Cheerleadra and Nanase's fairy in the woodland preserve where Lady Andrea had been hiding out, Lady Andrea reveals that two of "your 'immortals" have been helping her hunt vampires, and that they were just about to tell her something important when they sent her off to kill the Spider Vampire. Now when did Helen and Demetrius send Lady Andrea after Spideyvamp?

My guess is right after the VWM panel here.  

And where was Lady Andrea? The most likely place seems to be the woods where she's been spending most of her time--the woods quite close to that tall bell tower the Spider Vampire was on top of when we first saw it and when it made that VWM.

How did the Gang of Three Who Were Really Five make it far enough out of town in time?

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1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:

Wait a minute. The Lights in the Sky happened just as Pandora was resetting. Weren't the vampires supposed to distract Helena and Demetrius so Sirleck and Demetrius could get close enough to do their thing to Elliot? But shouldn't the lights have appeared very soon after the attacks? Too soon for Magus and Sirleck to get out in the boonies? Maybe even before they would have gotten unconscious Ashley back into her jacket and into the back seat of the old Prius?

This is the likely timeline of events, Vampires attack the mall> Sirleck!Ellen zaps Elliot>Magus!Elliot puts Ashley to sleep and they get in the car and start driving to the facility>Pandora kills vampires attacking at the mall>Pandora uses "reset" link to make all Immortals to a vampire killing nuke which is visible to Sirleck as he's driving down the road.

We even see that they're in the car when the "lights in the sky" happen.

As for where Helena and Demetrius were, we have no clue but we can only assume that they were sufficiently distracted away from Elliot at the time the vampires began their attack.

 

Theory: Maybe instead of Pandora getting in touch with Magus and setting things right with him, maybe she got in touch with Helena and Demetrius and told them what the deal with Magus is so that they could help him, maybe they're waiting for the moment Sirleck attempts to possess Magus to make their move?

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21 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:
23 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Magus himself didn't knew the elf being targeted is Adrian. He wouldn't risk it AND neither would Sirleck if Magus told him.

How many elves live in Moperville? Magus found out Mr. Raven was Pandora's son back in Sister II, long before Voltaire made his phone call to Sirleck in So a Date at the Mall.

Only one, but Magus doesn't know it, as he does know they are targeting an Elf.

11 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

So where the heck were they???!!!

Very good question.

9 hours ago, Tuscahoma said:
10 hours ago, Scotty said:

If the core is a wand, then it's quite possible the crystal "shell" might have been a seal to prevent people from using it, especially if it was particularly dangerous in the wrong hands.

Ooh, possibly a wand of transforming people.  Possibly something that Ashley might pick up.  Now, would an older artifact be capable of influencing it's wielder (as depicted in fantasy literature and media, such as the One Ring, Stormbringer, Death Note, Hand of Vecna and the Holy Hand Grenade)?  If so, would it be able to influence the Ashley to use it, someone who is probably closer to a Lawful Good Paladin in terms of personal code than Elliot is, despite her inner fantasy life being more Chaotic Good with Neutral tendencies (hmm, Bugs Bunnyish perhaps, the Karmic Trickster  - warning, link to TV Tropes, browse at your own risk).  And finally, what if said wand transformed people with a ticking clock such that you must change back before the change becomes permanent?  Best make sure said wand doesn't fall into the wrong Seer's hands.

Just a thought.  ;)

Hmmmm ...

1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:

Wait a minute. The Lights in the Sky happened just as Pandora was resetting. Weren't the vampires supposed to distract Helena and Demetrius so Sirleck and Demetrius could get close enough to do their thing to Elliot? But shouldn't the lights have appeared very soon after the attacks? Too soon for Magus and Sirleck to get out in the boonies? Maybe even before they would have gotten unconscious Ashley back into her jacket and into the back seat of the old Prius?

Probably the fight with vampires lasted longer than it looked.

2 minutes ago, Scotty said:

This is the likely timeline of events, Vampires attack the mall> Sirleck!Ellen zaps Elliot>Magus!Elliot puts Ashley to sleep and they get in the car and start driving to the facility>Pandora kills vampires attacking at the mall>Pandora uses "reset" link to make all Immortals to a vampire killing nuke which is visible to Sirleck as he's driving down the road.

Yes. Note that Pandora was aware of vampires before anything happened ; it's possible that so were Helena and Demetrius.

 

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Hmm, I had thought that perhaps Pandora had bern in contact with Magus before her reset, and that's how she knew about the vampires at the Mall.  I like the idea that she worked up a scheme with Magus, Helena, and Demitrius ahead of time to take care of Sirleck when he tries to take over the new Magus!

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On 3/14/2018 at 1:33 PM, hkmaly said:

I think we can assume "flammable under non-absurd conditions". After all, with the right fluorine-based chemical even water is highly flammable - and the smoke will melt your lungs, for added fun. (Gotta love a chemical whose molecular structure is both easily pronounceable and a good onomatopoeia for what frequently happens in its presence.)

On 3/15/2018 at 5:08 AM, CritterKeeper said:

Remember, Sirleck was told that Adrian was probably the son of one of a pair of very-recently-reset Immortals, not that he was the son of one of the most powerful Immortals in many centuries.

I don't remember Sirleck being told anything at all specific about which immortal Adrian is a child of. I think that was his assumption based on the partial information that Voltaire fed him.

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Impressive, amazing, problematic.

I imagine Ellen front-flipping Sirleck off. Could it be zero G in mindscape?

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5 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

I don't remember Sirleck being told anything at all specific about which immortal Adrian is a child of. I think that was his assumption based on the partial information that Voltaire fed him.

Well, he told Sirleck about the two immortals at the mall, and then added that one of those Immortals has a half-human kid.  He might be able to plead ambiguity, if he were on the half of the Earth that forbids them lying, but the implication was pretty clear.

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8 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

He might be able to plead ambiguity, if he were on the half of the Earth that forbids them lying, but the implication was pretty clear.

He MIGHT be able to plead ambiguity just because the immortal rules are judged by themselves. I don't believe his plead would be successful otherwise.

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