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Tom Sewell

Story Monday, July 8, 2019

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Granted, they have a lot in common, but they've know each other for two weeks, and been on two abortive dates, ... my parental senses are kicking in as saying, "You are using that L word too quickly, my 18 year old friend." Given the characters we've seen and how Dan has been developing them, I'm sure it will work for them, but if this was real life the result would not be pretty.

Then again, Nanase, was it?, said, "Elliot is not ready to date." ...

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Elliot is probably not going to be rationally cynical enough to count as "ready" for much of anything until he also counts as too old.

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6 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

and been on two abortive dates

The first date would still be considered a date, they managed to get dinner, get to know each other more and have some fun before their interruption, the second date shouldn't even be called a date because they hadn't even got settled in to doing anything before getting interrupted. Basically, the third "uneventful" date should be the actual second date.

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:

The first date would still be considered a date, they managed to get dinner, get to know each other more and have some fun before their interruption, the second date shouldn't even be called a date because they hadn't even got settled in to doing anything before getting interrupted. Basically, the third "uneventful" date should be the actual second date.

If you consider a "date" as getting acquainted, I suppose they've been on fast forward.

Elliot's response fits, in-universe. In real life I would say, "Elliot you need more grounding. You've seen each other in exceptional circumstances, see if you still like each other with some normal dates under your belt." Not to say that people can't ever bond quickly, but it tends to work better if they're older and know themselves; and it has been pointed out that Elliot is weak in introspection. Ashley seems a little better at it, but she has little experience with dating, and Nanase's concerns, "Seriously? No questions?" may reflect perceiving immaturity in Ashley. To be fair, Elliot's recent showing initiative may reflect overall maturing in his character over the last school year.

Eh, <shrug>, I'm sure it will work out within their setting.

Another question is, "Where are they carrying all the shoes they keep dropping?" I'm waiting for Wednesday for yet another shoe to drop. Must be what the backpacks are for.

 

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43 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Another question is, "Where are they carrying all the shoes they keep dropping?" I'm waiting for Wednesday for yet another shoe to drop. Must be what the backpacks are for.

*snort*  This is EGS, home of the ignored plot line for over 15 years.

 

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8 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Ok, who gave Elliot self awareness and initiative?

And where was it when he was dating Nanase and Sarah?

The first sign of real self-awareness came in the shower the morning after Elliot dreamed about Susan as Counsellor Troi, which was a bit before Christmas, around a month ago, Moperville Time. Sarah had already decided to break up with Elliot, but Elliot was absolutely unaware of any trouble with that relationship--much as he was until the moment Nanase slapped him before breaking up with him.

Then, with blinding speed, after talking with Tedd, and with Ellen (who wasn't available for the Nanase breakup because she didn't exist yet), Elliot actually decided he needed to break up with Sarah. Of course, he also decided not to tell Susan about the feelings he'd developed for her, so that created another shoe left to drop. And, finally, Elliot actually made what he thought was the first move and told Sarah.

Fast forward. Some time in early January, after all the fun with not-Tengu, Elliot made the video with Susan and Sarah announcing their breakup. This could have happened on January 3rd, a Sunday, and if school started on Monday, January 4th, this could be the day Elliot gave Ashley her phone back. But Dan's been more careful about keeping dates vague, so it could have been later. 

This is also the day Elliot learned about the rumors he was gay, and Catalina kiss-tackled him, and boys started talking to Sarah, and Bad Tom made his first move on Susan. That night Elliot dreamed up a harem, woke up, decided to sleep as a guy for the rest of the night, and...

The next day, Susan figured out Bad Tom, while Ashley saw Elliot transform, and Elliot asked her for a date! Initiative! Well, a second example. The date of the date wasn't actually set yet as Ashley admitted to Liz, but it was definitely a comin'.

Whenever the date came, it was on a Saturday, the day after the Friday Sarah and Sam made a date for the following Friday, and now we are into relative dating. Not incest, but dating relative to an arbitrary day, like D-Day. I Use NW-Day for "New World", and the relative date of Elliot and Ashley's first date is NW-6, six days before Magic made "minimal" changes.

NW-Day, besides being the last day for most vampires on the planet and Susan, Diane, and Adrian finding out they were all relatives, was the day of Ashley's second date with Elliot. Actually it turned out to be sort of double-date, plus a fifth wheel.

Elliot's third date with Ashley was on NW+7, another Friday evening. Nothing went wrong, but Elliot felt dissatisfied the next day, and so, on NW+8, we come to Elliot's third example of real initiative in dating: the party at Tedd's the following Saturday, NW+15. That's maybe as little as a month's time, in Moperville.

Or about six years in our time.

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Just now, Tom Sewell said:

and with Ellen (who wasn't available for the Nanase breakup because she didn't exist yet)

She has Elliot's memory of breaking up with Nanase though, just like Ellen knew the reason Elliot went ahead with dating Sarah, she spoke using "we" instead of "you".

Just now, Tom Sewell said:

Of course, he also decided not to tell Susan about the feelings he'd developed for her, so that created another shoe left to drop.

I don't think that will ever be a profound shoe drop anyway, I mean, I'm pretty sure everyone knows they had feelings for each other anyway, Elliot had told Ellen, Susan told Justin, Sarah thought maybe it'd be better if Elliot and Susan got together (which would have been a relief to Susan if she knew that Sarah would give them her blessing) and she was talking to Nanase about that, Grace's relationship sense would of course notice, Tedd....ok it didn't seem like he picked up on it when Elliot was talking about having feelings for someone else so he'd probably have to have Grace mention it later or something.

I think if there was a "tell us about your past crushes" game with the group, Susan and Elliot would probably admit to being attracted to each other and at worst, Tedd would be the only one surprised.

 

As far as Elliot's initiative goes, he's always taken initiative whenever he sees someone in need of help, befriending Tedd and Justin are big examples, he also made friends with Noah because of a really close race and because Noah reminded him of Tedd. There's also of course the initiative Elliot took in defending Ellen when he thought Edward was going to take her away. While Sarah was a bit annoyed by the fact that Elliot took initiative to have a party to help Ashley get more comfortable with Magic and get to know the others, but that's no different than going to Tedd's defense whenever Tony pushed him around.

To him it was more about being there for others than worrying about what he wanted so it was certainly easier to take initiative when others were in need but when it came down being asked what he wanted to do, it didn't really click. Now though, he's thinking more about what he wants and that's where the initiative to break up with Sarah and later ask Ashley out comes from.

 

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2 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Elliot's third date with Ashley was on NW+7, another Friday evening. Nothing went wrong, but Elliot felt dissatisfied the next day, and so, on NW+8, we come to Elliot's third example of real initiative in dating: the party at Tedd's the following Saturday, NW+15. That's maybe as little as a month's time, in Moperville.

Or about six years in our time.

Huh, there apparently was a third date. I had to look that up. One page of invite and one panel of recap. Everything happened off-screen, and it appears that neither party was thrilled.

I guess Griffins and Golems (tm)* are tough acts to follow.

So, I'll double down on, "You're not ready to be using the L word." (Why am I thinking of Scott Pilgrim?)

Dan is planning big for this party. Smart money says it's going to go well, that's the EGS way, but he could really throw a curve ball here, if he wanted to.

 

* So I have a name for my fantasy RPG if I ever get around to writing one.

 

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18 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

"You are using that L word too quickly, my 18 year old friend."

On the other hand, he's 18. At that age, people are much more impulsive. Some even commit suicide over love! So totally realistic.

8 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:
9 hours ago, mlooney said:

This is EGS, home of the ignored plot line for over 15 years.

Lord Tedd will be back in the story any day now...

Probably not, but it's not really ignored, Dan just underestimated how long it will take for him to appear. By factor of 10 at minimum.

4 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

The first sign of real self-awareness came in the shower the morning after Elliot dreamed about Susan as Counsellor Troi, which was a bit before Christmas, around a month ago, Moperville Time. Sarah had already decided to break up with Elliot, but Elliot was absolutely unaware of any trouble with that relationship--much as he was until the moment Nanase slapped him before breaking up with him.

Then, with blinding speed, after talking with Tedd, and with Ellen (who wasn't available for the Nanase breakup because she didn't exist yet), Elliot actually decided he needed to break up with Sarah.

To be fair, the moment he realized she's like sister to him it made zero sense to continue the relationship.

And note that similarly as this moment, it was triggered by someone else making him talk.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

I think if there was a "tell us about your past crushes" game with the group, Susan and Elliot would probably admit to being attracted to each other and at worst, Tedd would be the only one surprised.

Considering Susan is aware she shouldn't ever wear Troi's costume when near Elliot, SHE wouldn't be surprised either.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

To him it was more about being there for others than worrying about what he wanted so it was certainly easier to take initiative when others were in need but when it came down being asked what he wanted to do, it didn't really click. Now though, he's thinking more about what he wants and that's where the initiative to break up with Sarah and later ask Ashley out comes from.

... actually, it can be said he's STILL doing everything for others. It's just that Sarah only triggered his "help the others" when it was about breaking up with her (and freeing her for Sam, indirectly).

4 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Catalina kiss-tackled him

I think it should be "tackle-kissed".

58 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

I guess Griffins and Golems (tm)* are tough acts to follow.

* So I have a name for my fantasy RPG if I ever get around to writing one.

Actually, writing ™ is not enough. You also need to register the name and pay for it. And actively use it.

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24 minutes ago, hkmaly said:
1 hour ago, Darth Fluffy said:

I guess Griffins and Golems (tm)* are tough acts to follow.

* So I have a name for my fantasy RPG if I ever get around to writing one.

Actually, writing ™ is not enough. You also need to register the name and pay for it. And actively use it.

And actively defend it against all comers.

 

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16 minutes ago, hkmaly said:
1 hour ago, Darth Fluffy said:

I guess Griffins and Golems (tm)* are tough acts to follow.

* So I have a name for my fantasy RPG if I ever get around to writing one.

Actually, writing ™ is not enough. You also need to register the name and pay for it. And actively use it.

You can register a trademark, and it is more defensible if you do, but it is not required, at least not in the US. You are correct that it has to be in use.

Whether it would be defensible elsewhere, eh, each country has their own laws, there is some reciprocity, I think the EU does that for each other, but I would not expect to be able to defend the name outside of the US even if I registered it, if that is all I did.

The alliterative name was a happy accident from the circumstances of their dates, and the rest was tongue in cheek, but I'm not above using it, should the situation arise.

Anyway, Luncheons and Flagons is a better name.

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, hkmaly said:
2 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

I guess Griffins and Golems (tm)* are tough acts to follow.

* So I have a name for my fantasy RPG if I ever get around to writing one.

Actually, writing ™ is not enough. You also need to register the name and pay for it. And actively use it.

But it can be worth it. Way back in the late Dark Ages of Disney, or 1981 in our time, Disney came out with a little movie called Dragonslayer. Appropriately, it was set more or less in the actual Dark Ages, in a kingdom more or less in Saxon Britain before Christianity caught on. It got both thumbs up from Siskel and Ebert, but not big box office.

And it got a lawsuit that Disney lost! A really tiny operation that made a line of miniatures for tabletop fantasy RPGs called Dragonslayers actually got Disney to pay up.

Edited by Tom Sewell
forgot the "back" in "way back".

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2 hours ago, hkmaly said:
21 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

"You are using that L word too quickly, my 18 year old friend."

On the other hand, he's 18. At that age, people are much more impulsive. Some even commit suicide over love! So totally realistic.

Also, wait a moment, why are we criticizing Elliot for using the L word? We've had Sarah use it on Elliot, sure, we know where that ended up, but we've also had Tedd use it for Grace, and we might as well assume they're married now, they just need to make it official. We also have Nanase and Ellen, well Nanase actually says it there, but Ellen was basically saying it too. It's probably just a matter of time before Rhoda and Catalina tell each other the L word in panel, same with Lucy and Diane. Will have to see more interaction between Justin and Luke before I make a call on that, and Sarah and Sam's relationship doesn't look promising at this time sadly.

3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

... actually, it can be said he's STILL doing everything for others. It's just that Sarah only triggered his "help the others" when it was about breaking up with her (and freeing her for Sam, indirectly).

I dunno it it counts when Sarah was wanting to break up with him, besides, he was thinking about how he felt about her when he decided they needed to break up, as was stated before, by Ellen and even Nanase, Elliot had been worrying more about other's feelings, which would prevent him from wanting to make decisions about stuff, like "What if I chose a bad restaurant?" or "what if I try to kiss her and she doesn't want to".

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Also, wait a moment, why are we criticizing Elliot for using the L word?

He seems more immature than the others, but I get your point, he's not far from the pack. They all have some issues, otherwise the comic would not be interesting.

 

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

We've had Sarah use it on Elliot, sure, we know where that ended up, ...

They actually do love each other, just not as a couple, although Sarah has jealous moments. Which would be an indication they'd be a bad match.

 

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

... but we've also had Tedd use it for Grace, ...

Elliot actually pointed that out to Tedd.

 

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

... and we might as well assume they're married now, they just need to make it official.

Grace in particular seems kind of ace, she's said things and had reactions that indicate she just likes to cuddle. In spite of Tedd's initial vocal perversion in the early comics, he might be OK with that. They do seem alike a couple that is well suited to each other.

 

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

We also have Nanase and Ellen, well Nanase actually says it there, but Ellen was basically saying it too.

I would say their love for each other is well demonstrated. But by that standard, Ashley's been brave and sacrificial toward Elliot, and that's kind of Elliot's core as well.

As a couple, Nanase and Ellen have made room for each other in their lives, they do things together, and they've known each other for a while. Elliot and Ashley aren't there yet.

 

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

It's probably just a matter of time before Rhoda and Catalina tell each other the L word in panel, same with Lucy and Diane.

Rhoda and Catalina seem particularly well suited. I credit Catalina for bringing Rhoda out of her shell. I'm sure they re confident in shared affection, even if they haven't been vocal about it. (not saying they haven't, we don't know.)

Lucy and Diane were pretty clear, once they started talking, even if they didn't use the actual word. My take on them is once they realized how they felt, they dove right in.

 

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Will have to see more interaction between Justin and Luke before I make a call on that, ...

Luke is hiding too much from Justin for this to work. If Luke wants it to work, he's going to have to come clean. Camden seems to be a factor, he wants something tangential to Luke and Justin's plot line, and it is messing with Luke. In his little face time he seems like he's manipulating Luke through Luke's codependency.

 

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

... and Sarah and Sam's relationship doesn't look promising at this time sadly.

Better to figure it out sooner than later. Sam needs to be honest, lack thereof dooming the relationship. Sarah will be OK, and so will Sam, but maybe not with each other. But if he persists on hiding his feelings, she will feel betrayed.

 

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

I dunno it it counts when Sarah was wanting to break up with him, besides, he was thinking about how he felt about her when he decided they needed to break up, as was stated before, by Ellen and even Nanase, Elliot had been worrying more about other's feelings, which would prevent him from wanting to make decisions about stuff, like "What if I chose a bad restaurant?" or "what if I try to kiss her and she doesn't want to".

He's asking good questions, those aren't the problem. Well, maybe the wording of the first one. "What restaurant would we both enjoy?" would be a healthier question. But considering her needs and her feelings is not a bad thing.

He's also not generally bad about taking initiative, in spite of Sarah's experience; their relationship is a bit of an anomaly. He does have weak areas, like failing to keep up with his spell book. But sometimes he shows really good initiative, especially when he's being protective.

So, my impression is that at some level, he does not really know Sarah. Their discussion of travel highlighted very different goals; maybe they find each other unrelatable. Food choices much the same. His indecision around Sarah may be the tip of a deep iceberg.

Noteworthy, he actually had good chemistry with Susan, several people commented on it or assumed they were a couple because of it; he even got Susan to consider it, which is really out of her comfort zone. Though it didn't get much focus, he seemed to have a pretty good relationship with Nanase, as far as it went. It was a factor in Ellen's interest in Nanase, and maybe visa versa. And he's still friends with these girls, that says a lot.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Just now, Darth Fluffy said:

Elliot actually pointed that out to Tedd.

Tedd had already said it, but Elliot drove the point home. And Elliot did say "love can grow stronger" though it's still possible he's not quite at the level of being in love with Ashley that Tedd is with Grace. It took Tedd like 2 an a half months (met Grace in late January, her first day of school was early-mid march) and Elliot's only known Ashley for 3 weeks.

Just now, Darth Fluffy said:

Grace in particular seems kind of ace, she's said things and had reactions that indicate she just likes to cuddle. In spite of Tedd's initial vocal perversion in the early comics, he might be OK with that. They do seem alike a couple that is well suited to each other.

We've seen her kiss Tedd numerous times, we've also seen her frustrated by a lack of romance, heck even in this comic, the last panel has her moving in for a kiss.

And lets not forget the vagueness of what happens after this page, and hinted at in this page, keep in mind that the commentary was added in 2015, Dan's frequent mention of hugs comes across as "thou dost protesteth too much" over what he was originally thinking when he first drew the pages.

Just now, Darth Fluffy said:

As a couple, Nanase and Ellen have made room for each other in their lives, they do things together, and they've known each other for a while. Elliot and Ashley aren't there yet.

I think is does help that Ellen has Elliot's memories of dating Nanase so their relationship isn't as rocky as say if they were just meeting, of course there was the issue with the hair, but that might have been due to Ellen misfiring with her newfound impulsiveness and well, the pony tail gave her good memories, I don't think Elliot would have said anything, and if we're going to be technical, it was also about 2 and a half months from Ellen's "birth" to when her and Nanase officially became a couple.

Just now, Darth Fluffy said:

Luke is hiding too much from Justin for this to work. If Luke wants it to work, he's going to have to come clean. Camden seems to be a factor, he wants something tangential to Luke and Justin's plot line, and it is messing with Luke. In his little face time he seems like he's manipulating Luke through Luke's codependency.

Honestly, I don't expect too much to amount from Camden, he thinks Grace is Cheerleadra, but will probably be quite disappointed if he learned that Elliot is, but yes, there are a bunch of unknowns to Luke's story and what little we've seen so far suggests that Luke may have to make a choice of which friends he'd rather hang with.

Just now, Darth Fluffy said:

Better to figure it out sooner than later. Sam needs to be honest, lack thereof dooming the relationship. Sarah will be OK, and so will Sam, but maybe not with each other. But if he persists on hiding his feelings, she will feel betrayed.

I've said that before as well, their suppose to be seeing each other again tonight (in comic) and while I don't expect to see how that plays out, we'll probably know how it went in how Sarah's feeling at the party Saturday.

Just now, Darth Fluffy said:

He's asking good questions, those aren't the problem. Well, maybe the wording of the first one. "What restaurant would we both enjoy?" would be a healthier question. But considering her needs and her feelings is not a bad thing.

I'm not saying that considering her feelings is a bad thing, in moderation, but constantly second guessing how she would feel about something seems a lot worse than if he were to just do it and find out.

Just now, Darth Fluffy said:

He's also not generally bad about taking initiative, in spite of Sarah's experience; their relationship is a bit of an anomaly. He does have weak areas, like failing to keep up with his spell book. But sometimes he shows really good initiative, especially when he's being protective.

So, my impression is that at some level, he does not really know Sarah. Their discussion of travel highlighted very different goals; maybe they find each other unrelatable. Food choices much the same. His indecision around Sarah may be the tip of a deep iceberg.

Elliot and Sarah grew up together, they did a lot of things together, but Elliot never really considered the possibility of dating Sarah until she started hinting at it. Some people can be lifelong friends and not get to know everything about them, it usually takes going into romantic territory to find out more. Maybe it would have saved Sarah some trouble if instead of dropping hints, she started asking Elliot stuff like "what would you consider a romantic night out?" or something, but also Elliot should have mentioned Nanase a lot sooner, like before Sarah started dropping hints, like really, what was Elliot worried about back when him and Nanase started dating? at worst he'd have found out Nanase was Tedd's cousin sooner, but that's not a bad thing.

Just now, Darth Fluffy said:

Noteworthy, he actually had good chemistry with Susan, several people commented on it or assumed they were a couple because of it; he even got Susan to consider it, which is really out of her comfort zone. Though it didn't get much focus, he seemed to have a pretty good relationship with Nanase, as far as it went. It was a factor in Ellen's interest in Nanase, and maybe visa versa. And he's still friends with these girls, that says a lot.

For all of Elliot's faults, they all know he's a good guy that doesn't mean any harm, heck his relationship with Nanase is a good example, he screwed up big time by keeping it secret and then how he handled Sarah's advances, she had every right to slap him, but also could have completely cut ties and never associate with him again as well, but that doesn't seem to be Nanase's nature either.

 

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20 minutes ago, Scotty said:
6 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

As a couple, Nanase and Ellen have made room for each other in their lives, they do things together, and they've known each other for a while. Elliot and Ashley aren't there yet.

I think is does help that Ellen has Elliot's memories of dating Nanase so their relationship isn't as rocky as say if they were just meeting, of course there was the issue with the hair, but that might have been due to Ellen misfiring with her newfound impulsiveness and well, the pony tail gave her good memories, I don't think Elliot would have said anything, and if we're going to be technical, it was also about 2 and a half months from Ellen's "birth" to when her and Nanase officially became a couple.

Yes ; despite Nanase being the first to do that "Ellen is new person", in some ways their relationship continued the relationship Elliot and Nanase had before.

From hindsight, Nanase's only problem with Elliot was that he was man.

22 minutes ago, Scotty said:

And lets not forget the vagueness of what happens after this page, and hinted at in this page, keep in mind that the commentary was added in 2015, Dan's frequent mention of hugs comes across as "thou dost protesteth too much" over what he was originally thinking when he first drew the pages.

I think Tedd's development from verbal pervert is partially autobiographical :)

However, so is Susan's "probably ace" sexual preference. Meaning, Dan might not be the most reliable person to say how much sex Tedd and Grace had.

6 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

So, my impression is that at some level, he does not really know Sarah. Their discussion of travel highlighted very different goals; maybe they find each other unrelatable. Food choices much the same. His indecision around Sarah may be the tip of a deep iceberg.

She told him everything, he just wasn't paying attention :)

But yes, it's not just about the indecisions. Also, it's possible he's indecisive in relationship with her BECAUSE they have different goals, he's aware of it and it's hard to choose something working for both.

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Just now, hkmaly said:

From hindsight, Nanase's only problem with Elliot was that he was man.

She does find his female forms attractive though.

Just now, hkmaly said:

I think Tedd's development from verbal pervert is partially autobiographical :)

However, so is Susan's "probably ace" sexual preference. Meaning, Dan might not be the most reliable person to say how much sex Tedd and Grace had.

True, but then Dan was still figuring things out, for both himself and how he writes stories, in the early years, he might have originally been thinking "how much can I hint at them having sex", especially when earlier, he had Edward mentioning that Grace's squirrel form was safe, and the commentary for that page doesn't really help in Dan's favor, like seriously, all he did there was come up with a reason why Edward would say that, rather than come up with a reason for having this page at all. He knew this was going to be relevant later though he doesn't admit it.

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22 minutes ago, Scotty said:
39 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

From hindsight, Nanase's only problem with Elliot was that he was man.

She does find his female forms attractive though.

Of course she does. Nothing surprising about it.

23 minutes ago, Scotty said:
41 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

I think Tedd's development from verbal pervert is partially autobiographical :)

However, so is Susan's "probably ace" sexual preference. Meaning, Dan might not be the most reliable person to say how much sex Tedd and Grace had.

True, but then Dan was still figuring things out, for both himself and how he writes stories, in the early years, he might have originally been thinking "how much can I hint at them having sex", especially when earlier, he had Edward mentioning that Grace's squirrel form was safe, and the commentary for that page doesn't really help in Dan's favor, like seriously, all he did there was come up with a reason why Edward would say that, rather than come up with a reason for having this page at all. He knew this was going to be relevant later though he doesn't admit it.

Yes. And I'm not sure if he finished with figuring things out yet. Wouldn't comment about himself, but about the stories, seems he's in "let's try to be as vague as possible" phase. I just hope it's not because he things there are readers who would be angered by someone in this comics having sex before marriage. I mean, sure, people like that exists, but I don't believe they read EGS.

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:
7 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Grace in particular seems kind of ace, she's said things and had reactions that indicate she just likes to cuddle. In spite of Tedd's initial vocal perversion in the early comics, he might be OK with that. They do seem alike a couple that is well suited to each other.

We've seen her kiss Tedd numerous times, we've also seen her frustrated by a lack of romance, heck even in this comic, the last panel has her moving in for a kiss.

And lets not forget the vagueness of what happens after this page, and hinted at in this page, ...

Cuddling, cuddling, cuddling, and Grace has no problem with nudity so that is not indicative, Tedd is clothed panels 1, 4, and 5 where he appears, and Grace is squicked when she finds out why everybody else has issues with nudity.

 

... keep in mind that the commentary was added in 2015, Dan's frequent mention of hugs comes across as "thou dost protesteth too much" over what he was originally thinking when he first drew the pages.

Yes, I'd agree; not just the art has evolved.

 

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Just now, Darth Fluffy said:

Tedd is clothed panels 1, 4, and 5 where he appears

Tedd is quickly zipping up his shirt in panel 1, meaning that shirt was unzipped and possibly not being worn prior to that page, especially considering he had just come down from his room, which Grace was in, and apparently Sarah rang the doorbell more than once like it took a bit to get presentable.

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:

I think is does help that Ellen has Elliot's memories of dating Nanase so their relationship isn't as rocky as say if they were just meeting, of course there was the issue with the hair, but that might have been due to Ellen misfiring with her newfound impulsiveness and well, the pony tail gave her good memories, I don't think Elliot would have said anything, and if we're going to be technical, it was also about 2 and a half months from Ellen's "birth" to when her and Nanase officially became a couple.

Elliot and Sarah grew up together, they did a lot of things together, but Elliot never really considered the possibility of dating Sarah until she started hinting at it. Some people can be lifelong friends and not get to know everything about them, it usually takes going into romantic territory to find out more. Maybe it would have saved Sarah some trouble if instead of dropping hints, she started asking Elliot stuff like "what would you consider a romantic night out?" or something, but also Elliot should have mentioned Nanase a lot sooner, like before Sarah started dropping hints, like really, what was Elliot worried about back when him and Nanase started dating? at worst he'd have found out Nanase was Tedd's cousin sooner, but that's not a bad thing.

For all of Elliot's faults, they all know he's a good guy that doesn't mean any harm, heck his relationship with Nanase is a good example, he screwed up big time by keeping it secret and then how he handled Sarah's advances, she had every right to slap him, but also could have completely cut ties and never associate with him again as well, but that doesn't seem to be Nanase's nature either.

The issue with Elliot and all the prior guys she's dated and Nanase was Nanase's inability to resolve her mother's expectations with how she was feeling. Put simply, she was in denial. (It's a big river, lots of people swim in it.) You could make a good case for, she's quite attracted to Elliot, other than his male form, hence ends up with Ellen, who is her own person, but is also female Elliot.

Nanase comes across initially as being ill planned, sprouting plot features as they develop. Some pieces don't fit all that well. You would think it would be common knowledge to Elliot's other close friends that he was dating, but neither Tedd nor Sarah knew he was dating Nanase. There could be reasons, but I think Dan didn't think about it until he decided to make her more a part of the plot. The fact that she is Tedd's cousin but nobody else knows that is a bit weird as well, you'd think they'd have met her in some context. I can see the families not being close, but Nanase's mother is protective of Tedd, that seems like it would have made periodic visits a thing. 

Allowing that either is a retcon, I don't think Elliot kept their relationship secret as much as it might not have occurred to him to mention it. It might have been mostly something they did in the context of their martial arts training, given that they don't live close, neither drives yet, I think it's Elliot's first relationship, and they may be subtly aware that they have some deep barriers. Nanase "tries" to be attracted to him, (whatever that means) but is at least somewhat aware of the lack of attraction; Elliot probably gets at least a hint of that.

I really don't get why she's "Ugly cousin" to Tedd. Indications are, she was sympathetic when they were kids.

My point with Elliot's ex's is that he is generally attractive, even before Ashley; Sarah is an exception, and she's not entirely unattracted.

 

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