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Illjwamh

Awakened and Dreaming

20 posts in this topic

While doing my NP count, I came across this strip, which reminded me that Rhoda has awakened - a fact that until just now I had forgotten. That got me to thinking - just how many awakened characters are there now? And how many dreamers? That we know of, anyway? By my best reckoning, discounting people whose jobs involve magic (like Verres, Cranium, etc. - in other words, ordinary civilians) the current tally is as follows:

 

Awakened:

Nanase
Elliot
Ellen
Susan
Justin
Rhoda
Noah

 

Dreaming:

Catalina
Luke (and whomever his friends are)
Good Tom
Liz
Dex
Sarah
Possibly Carol?
Kitty
Felix (/Felicity?)
 

Confirmed Potential

Diane
Ashley
Mrs. Kitsune
Akiko

 

 

 

 I feel like I'm for sure forgetting some.

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Liz we know Pandora was looking at and had said that there was something that could be useful that she could mark Liz with, but we don't know if Pandora actually got around to marking her as it seemed like Rhoda and Catalina distracted her, and then Kitty and Felix. I'd say at best Liz should have a question mark next to her.

Carol seems to be assumed marked because of her relation to Sarah, like "if Sarah can be marked, Carol might be marked too!!!" and I don't think that should be grounds to Carol being in this list.

Akiko being in the confirmed potential list irks me a bit too. I understand that considering her family is built around legendary monster hunters with great magical skills, it would make sense that Akiko has that potential as well, but I don't consider it confirmed until we either see someone look at Akiko and go "Yep, she's got it." or we see her actually use magic.

Considering the fact that people who are wizards or have magic affinities and such are supposedly descended from Immortals/Fairies, that makes it possible that a large chunk of the cast has the potential, Tensaided, George, Duck, Bill, Drake, Mr and Mrs Dunkel. We can put Carol in this category due to her being Sarah's sister as well as Mr and Mrs Brown because Sarah had to get her affinity from one of them. Mr and Mrs Pompoms too for Susan although it's possible the ancestry with Immortals is quite close in this case.

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This strip seems pretty definitive on the subject of Liz. The next strip is clearly some time later when she notices Catalina and Rhoda.

Carol is a question mark because of certain interpretations of these two strips.

Akiko's potential is confirmed as far as I'm concerned based on panel 7 of today's strip, especially when one considers what we already know about Nanase.

 

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I would say that Greg is confirmed.  Either that or he has powers that might as well be magic.  Much like Math in Grrl Power.

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I was thinking of Greg for the Dreaming list but decided we don't know if that's what he's doing, but I somehow forgot him when it came to the potentials list. Yeah, he should definitely be on that one.

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Just now, Illjwamh said:

This strip seems pretty definitive on the subject of Liz. The next strip is clearly some time later when she notices Catalina and Rhoda.

It's definitive that Pandora saw something that might be useful, and while the next strip might have been a half hour later or so, her dialog suggests that she was only scouting and was planning on going back after to mark the best ones. Good Tom is an exception because Pandora noticed him before she started her survey routine and she just couldn't pass up the chance to give him the ability to sense puppies in danger.

Considering Liz was not originally intended to be anything more than an extra to have with Ashley, and judging by the commentary for that page, I can see Dan thinking not only how Liz would answer the question, but how Pandora would react to it, but leaving it entirely up in the air whether she actually did anything about as a red herring.

Just now, Illjwamh said:

Carol is a question mark because of certain interpretations of these two strips.

I don't think that's definitive of Carol using magic though, I saw that as Carol sulking at the fact that she missed the action.

Just now, Illjwamh said:

Akiko's potential is confirmed as far as I'm concerned based on panel 7 of today's strip, especially when one considers what we already know about Nanase.

Yeah, Noriko is confirmed wizard, Mama Kitsune is implied to be potentially a wizard as well, Nanase is a magic user but not a wizard, but if Papa Kitsune is not a magic user and has no affinities for anything, there's potential for Akiko to not be a magic user as well, hence why the jury is still out for me until we see actual evidence of Akiko having the potential.

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4 hours ago, Scotty said:

I don't think that's definitive of Carol using magic though, I saw that as Carol sulking at the fact that she missed the action.

 


Hence "interpretation" and "question mark".

 

4 hours ago, Scotty said:

Yeah, Noriko is confirmed wizard, Mama Kitsune is implied to be potentially a wizard as well, Nanase is a magic user but not a wizard, but if Papa Kitsune is not a magic user and has no affinities for anything, there's potential for Akiko to not be a magic user as well, hence why the jury is still out for me until we see actual evidence of Akiko having the potential.

 

Mrs. Kitsune isn't implied to be potentially a wizard; it's stated flat-out as a fact.

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Just now, Illjwamh said:

Mrs. Kitsune isn't implied to be potentially a wizard; it's stated flat-out as a fact.

Stating that she "could have been equally powerful if she tried" doesn't necessarily mean she is a wizard though, yes she has the potential, but we have no evidence that she is a wizard. Adrian could have told her that he could help her awaken and she could have passed on it for all we know.

I wasn't disagreeing with Mama Kitsune's placement in the list anyway, just Akiko's because I feel its making an assumption strictly based on association with only half the info needed to make an informed opinion. The fact that we don't know if Papa Kitsune has magic potential should give Akiko a question mark as to her potential.

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Greg is definitely either dreaming or awakened—remember, dreaming is anyone who has magic without having awakened, not just people with magic marks. (We don't know which; but then again, anyone on the "Dreaming" list could potentially have awakened since we last saw them, so Greg could go there as well.) Given that definition, Grace (and her siblings and any other uryuom/seyunolu) would also technically be dreaming, though I don't think there's been any official answer to whether the term actually applies there (also come to think of it wouldn't that also include people using wands?).

Noah being awakened has been hinted at, but I don't think it's ever been confirmed.

Carol seems like too much of a stretch; it took a while to even see what you were suggesting was evidence...

I don't think we know about any special magic potential for Ashley—what Pandora was detecting was related to yearning and personality, not anything specific to magic.

While we don't know if Mrs. Kitsune is a wizard, we do know that she has some potential, so she could still go on that list. I don't think anything's been confirmed about Akiko, though—it's likely given everything else, but nothing's been said explicitly.

Mr. Raven is (presumably) awakened and doesn't have a job involving magic.

Edit to add: Oh!  And Tedd should definitely be on the "Dreaming" list—not only does she have seer powers, but she also has a magic mark.

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15 hours ago, Scotty said:

Stating that she "could have been equally powerful if she tried" doesn't necessarily mean she is a wizard though, yes she has the potential, but we have no evidence that she is a wizard. Adrian could have told her that he could help her awaken and she could have passed on it for all we know.

Considering that being a wizard is something you are born with, and not something you train for. 

Having the same potential pretty much means she is a wizard. 

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1 minute ago, Sjmcc13 said:

Having the same potential pretty much means she is a wizard. 

She would still have to train in order to awaken that potential though. And if Mama Kitsune didn't train, then she wouldn't have learned any spells.

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12 hours ago, chridd said:

Mr. Raven is (presumably) awakened and doesn't have a job involving magic.

Oh, right.  Also a wizard.

Quote

Edit to add: Oh!  And Tedd should definitely be on the "Dreaming" list—not only does she have seer powers, but she also has a magic mark.

Tedd is problematic.  Magic marks disappear when the marked person awakens, and someone who's already awakened shouldn't be Mark-able.  Tedd is apparently already a wizard who can do major enchantments on wands/watches/etc, but he only has the one spell of his own that he can cast without tech as an intermediary.  Tedd said a wizard can cast other peoples' spells after they've awakened.  It's rather mixed signals, which seems appropriate for Tedd.

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7 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

Tedd is problematic.  Magic marks disappear when the marked person awakens, and someone who's already awakened shouldn't be Mark-able.  Tedd is apparently already a wizard who can do major enchantments on wands/watches/etc, but he only has the one spell of his own that he can cast without tech as an intermediary.  Tedd said a wizard can cast other peoples' spells after they've awakened.  It's rather mixed signals, which seems appropriate for Tedd.

Judging by the fact that Tedd was able to resist the wand as a baby, my guess is Seers don't have awakening like other wizards do. So the whole dreaming and awakened stuff just doesn't apply to Tedd.

Now Tedd being marked is proof that he can be given a spell, but does that mean that he's dreaming? According to Pandora, Tedd's a well of power which should mean that he would meet the power requirements for awakening, but it doesn't seem like he can in the traditional sense, so would he be in a perpetual state of dreaming, or is this some sort of fluke that Pandora was able to mark a Seer.

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Judging by the fact that Tedd was able to resist the wand as a baby, my guess is Seers don't have awakening like other wizards do. So the whole dreaming and awakened stuff just doesn't apply to Tedd.

Now Tedd being marked is proof that he can be given a spell, but does that mean that he's dreaming? According to Pandora, Tedd's a well of power which should mean that he would meet the power requirements for awakening, but it doesn't seem like he can in the traditional sense, so would he be in a perpetual state of dreaming, or is this some sort of fluke that Pandora was able to mark a Seer.

Can you awaken but not get spells?

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1 hour ago, Vorlonagent said:

Can you awaken but not get spells?

How else would you exercise your magic?

Nanase, Elliot and Justin exercised their magic through ASMA training. Through whatever techniques Greg taught, they were able to start dreaming with basic illusion magic.

And in regards to whether Greg is awakened or not, take Edward's explanation of Not_Tengu, "just some average jerk who, when younger, stumbled upon a way to gain use of magic that almost anyone on the planet can use." So was Not_Tengu a wizard who found a spellbook that taught him how to do magic? Was he guided and empowered by an immortal? Or maybe he was a hardcore D&D player who, while LARPing one day, accidentally managed to cast lightning bolt for reals. I wouldn't be surprised if someone LARPing would stumble on the ability to use actual magic, which would probably be the equivalent of Greg watching a 1 week long anime marathon with the desire of being able to do the stuff the anime characters did and then actually being able to.

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8 minutes ago, Scotty said:

How else would you exercise your magic?

Nanase, Elliot and Justin exercised their magic through ASMA training. Through whatever techniques Greg taught, they were able to start dreaming with basic illusion magic.

And in regards to whether Greg is awakened or not, take Edward's explanation of Not_Tengu, "just some average jerk who, when younger, stumbled upon a way to gain use of magic that almost anyone on the planet can use." So was Not_Tengu a wizard who found a spellbook that taught him how to do magic? Was he guided and empowered by an immortal? Or maybe he was a hardcore D&D player who, while LARPing one day, accidentally managed to cast lightning bolt for reals. I wouldn't be surprised if someone LARPing would stumble on the ability to use actual magic, which would probably be the equivalent of Greg watching a 1 week long anime marathon with the desire of being able to do the stuff the anime characters did and then actually being able to.

Not-Tengu is a magic user.  There is not canon to suggest he is also a wizard.  His origin is unclear beyond the sketch given us by Ed Verres.  Greg, if he is Awakened, had a minor angst-induced awakening,  By comparison, just wanting to cast a lightning bolt at a LARP session is not going to cut it. 

How else to exercise?  Make devices?  Tedd's ability is defined as being a wizard that doesn't get spells.  There's nothing that suggests that Awakening is either automatic or not needed. 

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1 minute ago, Vorlonagent said:

Not-Tengu is a magic user.  There is not canon to suggest he is also a wizard.  His origin is unclear beyond the sketch given us by Ed Verres.  Greg, if he is Awakened, had a minor angst-induced awakening,  By comparison, just wanting to cast a lightning bolt at a LARP session is not going to cut it. 

How else to exercise?  Make devices?  Tedd's ability is defined as being a wizard that doesn't get spells.  There's nothing that suggests that Awakening is either automatic or not needed. 

That's why I was saying that in Tedd's case, he either was born awakened due to being a Seer, or Seers don't go through the process of awakening, which would technically mean they were born awakened, but if Seers acces magic differently than other magic users, then the rules for Seers would be different and so dreaming and awakening might not be a factor at all.

Yeah Greg might have had a minor angst induced awakening due to being dumped by his girlfriend, Not_Tengu might have also had a similar awakening, maybe constant rejection from women gave him an angst induced awakening with the desire to bend the minds of women to his will.

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:

That's why I was saying that in Tedd's case, he either was born awakened due to being a Seer, or Seers don't go through the process of awakening, which would technically mean they were born awakened, but if Seers acces magic differently than other magic users, then the rules for Seers would be different and so dreaming and awakening might not be a factor at all.

Key phrase is "might not".  Pandora does not touch on your point and her exposition is all we have to go on. 

If we treat being a Seer like any other magical aptitude, awakening is still an option, even required for some stuff, albeit easier.  As far as we know, wizards have to awaken like everybody else and Tedd is a specialized subtype of wizard.

It may be that being a seer doesn't always include Tedd's power and degree of magic resistance.  Tedd might have auto-Awakened since he was that far off the charts but another seer might not be so lucky.

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