Comic for Monday, Mar 17, 2025

[Darth Fluffy 354]

Comic for Monday, Mar 17, 2025

Immortal not understanding human moral judgement - Hope does not get the concept of keeping others secrets.

Hope seems proud of herself for the reveal, for remembering and figuring things out.

Grace seemed to anticipate the issue, maybe not expecting Hope to be so direct, but I assume she was guessing it was Rhoda.

The main cast are in shock, maybe because Hope is a bit of a loose cannon, 'I might be next', or maybe because the reached the wrong conclusion previously regarding Rhoda and Catalina.

Jay/Jill seems to be a bit put off. Probably senses something weird just happened, but not sure what. Maybe sees Hope a bit too bubbly about Pandora's past actions, but she's be unaware of much of it.

It's getting interesting.

[mlooney 3,687]

Having Hope burst out with information is one way to tie up loose plot points.

I'm willing to bet half a cookie that Sam's (and all the other marked trans people's) secret comes out soon as well.

[Pharaoh RutinTutin 1,629]

 

Pandora was not concerned with Immortal or Human morals & social norms.  Hope has a slight gap in her knowledge base. 

Too bad no one in that room has any experience dealing with embarrassment. 

 

[Darth Fluffy 354]

4 hours ago, mlooney said:

Having Hope burst out with information is one way to tie up loose plot points.

So would a nuclear device in downtown Moperville. Granted, you might still have unanswered questions, but the resolution of plot points would be clear.

 

4 hours ago, mlooney said:

I'm willing to bet half a cookie that Sam's (and all the other marked trans people's) secret comes out soon as well.

The logistics of a cookie bet are daunting. It is likely to arrive in bad shape.

Sam's secret is already out. Grace knows and Sarah figured it out. Not sure if Tedd has seen it; I think he's just seen the result.

I think the group in the pocket dimension is going to have a talk with Hope about keeping other folks private matters private.

[ijuin 601]

12 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Immortal not understanding human moral judgement - Hope does not get the concept of keeping others secrets.

Hope seems proud of herself for the reveal, for remembering and figuring things out.

Making Magic be not-secret was kind of Pandora’s whole thing for at least her last year, and Hope is likely feeling some remnant of that.

[Darth Fluffy 354]

17 minutes ago, ijuin said:

Making Magic be not-secret was kind of Pandora’s whole thing for at least her last year, and Hope is likely feeling some remnant of that.

You'd think Pandora would pass on the reason not to do that.

[Amiable Dorsai 70]

Hoo boy, all the cats, all the bags... How many secrets are left? The Main Eight (Can we still call them that?) now know about pretty much all about the magic of just about everybody who has featured in any significant way, with minor exceptions like Luke's buddies. Will they reciprocate? Will Susan clue in Catalina? How much will Diane tell Lucy and Rhoda? Can Grace finally confide in Rhoda? Is it fair if they don't? Stay tuned!

[Pharaoh RutinTutin 1,629]

 

Crazy vision 

Susan & Grace confront Rhoda & Catalina. 

Scene ends with a joust parody where Fairy Doll Susan rides Squirrel Grace into "battle" with shrunken Rhoda mounted on Kitty Catalina. 

I know I'm crazy.  Please convince me I'm wrong. 

 

[mlooney 3,687]

25 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Scene ends with a joust parody where Fairy Doll Susan rides Squirrel Grace into "battle" with shrunken Rhoda mounted on Kitty Catalina. 

This needs to be a sketchbook, if not actually in canon.

[Amiable Dorsai 70]

16 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Hope seems proud of herself for the reveal, for remembering and figuring things out.

Got to be a bit of a relief for her, it's nice to see her as less of a mess. Here's hoping the reactions of her audience don't send her in another tailspin.

[ijuin 601]

5 hours ago, Amiable Dorsai said:

The Main Eight (Can we still call them that?) 

Including Jay and Hope, it is Twelve. Including Lucy, Rhoda, and Catalina, it is Fifteen.

[Darth Fluffy 354]

3 hours ago, ijuin said:

Including Jay and Hope, it is Twelve. Including Lucy, Rhoda, and Catalina, it is Fifteen.

Jay is working toward inclusion (rather quickly), but she has holes in her social interaction. For real humans, her and Susan would be a poor match, damaged people do not generally work well together. But I'm still shipping them in the comic.

I think it is a forgone conclusion that Rhoda and Catalina are going to be as included as Diane, and Lucy will tag along, plus she now knows about magic (or was that unclear?) She may be marked, but we've seen no evidence. She seems ripe for being marked by Hope, if that is a thing. Having Susan's ability to summon weapons would be cool, but I'm guessing armor.

Is Liz possibly included at this point? Elliot and Ashley are hanging out with her, and Elliot is demonstrating more magic to her.

Hope. Hope is an immortal with a juvenile outlook. She seem to need guidance, the cast cares about her, for the most part, I can see her fitting in. By rights, she should be overpowered.

[ijuin 601]

Hope is a bit like early-story Grace— she has lots of power and little finesse and lots of naïveté.

[mlooney 3,687]

7 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

She seem to need guidance, the cast cares about her, for the most part, I can see her fitting in

I wonder if she “grows up” and becomes a student with the main cast after they start college. She needs to learn real-world history at least.

[Darth Fluffy 354]

3 hours ago, mlooney said:

I wonder if she “grows up” and becomes a student with the main cast after they start college. She needs to learn real-world history at least.

Hmm. Immortals should have some sense of history. They can hide from each other, but they can all see the EGS world, so in a sense it is more real to them. But with powerful magic, it's status is not as meaningful to them.

Yeah, if Hope starts identifying with the humans, I could see her being interested in history.

[mlooney 3,687]

2 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Immortals should have some sense of history.

Hope's memories, such that they are, are centered around Sarah and the people Pandora gave magic to, or are hundreds of years out of date.  She needs Rhoda to be a history tutor for her.

[Pharaoh RutinTutin 1,629]

 

Our favorite apprentice wizard used  a "modern knowledge" spell when stalking Ellen. 

Wouldn't Hope have access to something like that? 

 

[mlooney 3,687]

7 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

 

Our favorite apprentice wizard used  a "modern knowledge" spell when stalking Ellen. 

Wouldn't Hope have access to something like that? 

 

I don't think immortals cast spells the same way humans do.  Either that, or it hasn't accrued to Hope yet.  Need to see how DS deals with this sort of plot hole.

[Darth Fluffy 354]

2 hours ago, mlooney said:

Hope's memories, such that they are, are centered around Sarah and the people Pandora gave magic to, or are hundreds of years out of date.  She needs Rhoda to be a history tutor for her.

'Needs', yes, in some sense. But in order to grasp why it matters, she going to need to go beyond Immortal appreciation for its significance.

To re-emphasize a point, if you handle every issue with powerful magic, the current status is of less significance. She needs motivation to care. She may have it already; her connection to Pandora's past may provide it. But from what we've seen, it is not the default. So far, the track record is that the Immortals don't care until someone gets upset.

Would Rhoda be the best teacher? She'd have the knowledge and the tutoring experience. Grace might have more empathy for Hope's situation. Probably any of them could give it a good start (and likely will in terms of keeping secrets in the next comic or one soon to follow).

 

1 hour ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Our favorite apprentice wizard used  a "modern knowledge" spell when stalking Ellen. 

Wouldn't Hope have access to something like that?

I don't think Immortals have the context to appreciate the value of that knowledge. If they though of it, they probably could.

 

1 hour ago, mlooney said:

I don't think immortals cast spells the same way humans do.  Either that, or it hasn't accrued to Hope yet.  Need to see how DS deals with this sort of plot hole.

I concur, but they seem to have an awful lot of flexibility when they do. You don't see them toting spell book, do you?

[mlooney 3,687]

20 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

I concur, but they seem to have an awful lot of flexibility when they do. You don't see them toting spell book, do you?

EGS spell books aren't really like traditional fantasy spell books.  The mage doesn't need to pour over them to cast their spell.  They are more just a listing of what a spell can do, and are not needed to cast the spell as such, witness both Justin's spell use and Elliot's continual learning by accident.

[ijuin 601]

13 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Hmm. Immortals should have some sense of history. They can hide from each other, but they can all see the EGS world, so in a sense it is more real to them. But with powerful magic, it's status is not as meaningful to them.

Yeah, if Hope starts identifying with the humans, I could see her being interested in history.

Fortunately, her son teaches history classes, and will be teaching at Moperville University next term. Perhaps she should attend them. It would also go a good ways towards setting up a public alias for her new self.

8 hours ago, mlooney said:

EGS spell books aren't really like traditional fantasy spell books.  The mage doesn't need to pour over them to cast their spell.  They are more just a listing of what a spell can do, and are not needed to cast the spell as such, witness both Justin's spell use and Elliot's continual learning by accident.

EGS spell books seem more like user’s manuals than anything, and Magic seems to intend for them to be an educational guide.

[hkmaly 490]

On 3/17/2025 at 9:11 AM, mlooney said:

Having Hope burst out with information is one way to tie up loose plot points.

We waited almost 11 years for that, since this page.

On 3/17/2025 at 1:49 PM, Darth Fluffy said:

So would a nuclear device in downtown Moperville. Granted, you might still have unanswered questions, but the resolution of plot points would be clear.

... you say just when most of the cast is in room outside reality and likely wouldn't be affected by it at all.

Besides, Hope wouldn't be affected, Magus and Adrian are currently outside the city and I'm even not speaking about Lord Tedd.

On 3/17/2025 at 8:18 PM, Darth Fluffy said:

You'd think Pandora would pass on the reason not to do that.

You mean the "it may cause magic reset" bit? I don't think she missed this risk is no longer valid.

19 hours ago, mlooney said:

She needs to learn real-world history at least.

Why? She needs to learn real-world NOW.

12 hours ago, mlooney said:

I don't think immortals cast spells the same way humans do.

Agree.

 

[Darth Fluffy 354]

19 hours ago, mlooney said:

EGS spell books aren't really like traditional fantasy spell books.  The mage doesn't need to pour over them to cast their spell.  They are more just a listing of what a spell can do, and are not needed to cast the spell as such, witness both Justin's spell use and Elliot's continual learning by accident.

D&D spell books aren't really like traditional fantasy spell books. The main point in D&D to the cumbersome need to memorize spells is to limit the magic users so that other classes can compete. The Sorcerer model is a step toward immediate flexibility while still limiting  the number and power of spells.

Potterverse spells that care about how you pronounce pseudo-Latin and therefore highlight Hermione's prowess seem odd as well. Notice that the adults sometimes just blast spells without verbal components.

In EGS, the spell books do not appear to be strictly necessary. Justin has been functionally magical for years, awakened, and just got his spell book. They seem to ease the burden for humans; guiding them as they grow in capability; in Elliot's case helping him embrace his magic; lack of reading the spell book being called out several times of several characters as handicapping themselves.

We have no indication that Immortals need spell books. We also don't have a canonical word that they don't. But the seem to be more in touch with their magic and capabilities; even Hope, who is clueless about the world, is able to explain details of her pocket dimension. And from what we've seen, they are flexible, able to cast spells on the fly, to the limits of their personal power, and within the limits of their law (which can be exceeded, at a cost, as demonstrated by Pandora.)

 

12 hours ago, ijuin said:

Fortunately, her son teaches history classes, and will be teaching at Moperville University next term. Perhaps she should attend them. It would also go a good ways towards setting up a public alias for her new self.

EGS spell books seem more like user’s manuals than anything, and Magic seems to intend for them to be an educational guide.

For the humans, yes, and that seems to be a good analogy.

 

 

[Darth Fluffy 354]

10 hours ago, hkmaly said:

On 3/17/2025 at 8:49 AM, Darth Fluffy said:

On 3/17/2025 at 4:11 AM, mlooney said:

Having Hope burst out with information is one way to tie up loose plot points.

So would a nuclear device in downtown Moperville. Granted, you might still have unanswered questions, but the resolution of plot points would be clear.

... you say just when most of the cast is in room outside reality and likely wouldn't be affected by it at all.

Besides, Hope wouldn't be affected, Magus and Adrian are currently outside the city and I'm even not speaking about Lord Tedd.

Those in the pocket dimension would presumably not be vaporized, although we don't really know how isolated it is. They would indeed be affected; their homes and family are lost, they are not going to graduate, they are stuck in Hope's 'room' until she opens a portal to an unaffected region, they will have no food, water, and other necessary resources (presumably Hope could supply them. Adrian similarly has lost family, friends, home, and job. Magus might not care, but his best shot at going home is removed, though he doesn't seem to be aware of it.

Lord Tedd is a non-issue. He's barely a character, will likely never be revisited in the comic. He's more of a threat that hangs over Tedd.

In any case, it was an absurdly overstated analogy to how Hope dropping knowledge or other people's secrets without their consent has a downside. Was that point lost in the fog?

 

10 hours ago, hkmaly said:

On 3/17/2025 at 3:18 PM, Darth Fluffy said:

You'd think Pandora would pass on the reason not to do that.

You mean the "it may cause magic reset" bit? I don't think she missed this risk is no longer valid.

Yes, I mean 'it may cause a magic reset'. The risk is still valid; magic has changed before, has changed recently, and there is no reason to think it would never change again. Perhaps you mean 'the threat is not as great as it was'?

 

10 hours ago, hkmaly said:

22 hours ago, mlooney said:

I don't think immortals cast spells the same way humans do.  Either that, or it hasn't accrued to Hope yet.  Need to see how DS deals with this sort of plot hole.

Agree.

Once again (see: "I concur"), I agree, it seems that Immortals are much more in touch with their magic and are able to cast ad hoc spells, such as marking humans to cast spells. Nothing says 'Chaos' like casting spells no one else has ever thought of before.

[Don Edwards 571]

Hope isn't going to cast a "modern knowledge" spell, or anything similar, unless and until she perceives a need to do so.

Granted, that need might come in the form of "okay, just to shut you up" - cast - "oh shit you're right."