• Announcements

    • Robin

      Welcome!   03/05/2016

      Welcome, everyone, to the new 910CMX Community Forums. I'm still working on getting them running, so things may change.  If you're a 910 Comic creator and need your forum recreated, let me know and I'll get on it right away.  I'll do my best to make this new place as fun as the last one!
partner555

Discussions regarding Pacing, Scheduling and Fanservice

86 posts in this topic

Thank's to HarJIT, who found an archive with The Old Hack's courtesy rules, I was reminded that we had a specific place to quarantine all discussion regarding the pacing, scheduling and fan service in general of EGS. So I'm making that thread now.

Note: Discussion regarding fan service on specific pages (like the Patreon Pinups) should be limited to the threads for those pages unless it results in a necro.

Here's the link for anyone interested, make sure to read the rules:

3 hours ago, HarJIT said:

https://web.archive.org/web/20151116210514/http://community.910cmx.com/index.php?/topic/10364-please-be-courteous-and-respectful-to-your-fellow-posters/ may help, although taking the opportunity to refactor them somewhat might I suppose be a good idea.

 

I'll start us off with this one:

How do you guys feel about the general pacing of the MV5 storyline in NP? Sure we have some development on the character and plot front, but I felt that there were times where it dragged on a bit.

The Old Hack likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think this is a case of Dan having the general idea of the story set up, and even himself originally thinking it wouldn't take too long to get through it all, but then as he went along with each page, things cropped up where he felt he needed to clarify for the readers, like Susan's views on the double standard of nudity taking 2 pages instead of 1, and Ellen's claim to be completely hairless below the shoulder had an extra page added to explain that technically wasn't true. The whole bit about height probably took longer than originally planned too, though I would imagine his unwillingness to go into the "other details" saved him a fair number of pages. ;)

HarJIT likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/11/2016 at 4:49 PM, partner555 said:

How do you guys feel about the general pacing of the MV5 storyline in NP? Sure we have some development on the character and plot front, but I felt that there were times where it dragged on a bit.

It's been fun, but I'm hoping we move on soon. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, Matoyak said:

It's been fun, but I'm hoping we move on soon. 

Same for the main comic, really. The past few storylines seem to have been long even by EGS standards. So a Date at the Mall has lasted for over a year (and by the looks of it might well last for another month or two depending on how the discussion with the griffins goes), and Squirrel Prophet also took a year. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Erm, must be the schedule.

I need my dose of surprise in the storyline. And I need it now. The scene with Sarah and the door provides a very neat touch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It certainly doesn't help that we'd gotten used to updates five days a week, and got dropped back to three.  Storylines naturally take a lot longer that way.  The occasional sketchbook entry used to help there, but we haven't seen more than a handful of non-pinup sketches in far too many months.  I used to get the impression that sketches were something easy and fun for Dan to do, that helped him recharge; I'm afraid *having* to do them for Patreon may have ruined that for him.

The Old Hack likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dan was having a hard time getting sketchbooks out before the patreon milestone change, or do you mean patreon as a whole cus didn't Dan put the NP on hiatus for a while before he started the Patreon?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, CritterKeeper said:

It certainly doesn't help that we'd gotten used to updates five days a week, and got dropped back to three.  Storylines naturally take a lot longer that way.  The occasional sketchbook entry used to help there, but we haven't seen more than a handful of non-pinup sketches in far too many months.  I used to get the impression that sketches were something easy and fun for Dan to do, that helped him recharge; I'm afraid *having* to do them for Patreon may have ruined that for him.

Sketchbooks were for a time, infrequent before Patreon. And then Patreon happened, and suddenly there was a surge of sketchbook comics, and now Dan has fallen behind on those.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't misunderstand, I'm not complaining about lack of sketchbooks so much as fretting that Dan seemed to enjoy them before they became an obligation, and I'm worried that he's lost that outlet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know that just before Dan switched to the pinup format, he was having difficulty with getting sketchbooks for people that paid $20+ or whatever price done, I think he managed to get caught up with the backlog just prior to switching, and the new format seems more fair so that more people have a chance to have their idea used than to have only those that throw the most money at him get one done. I know I probably wouldn't have requested the "What if Ellen zapped herself in the MV5 NP story" idea if it meant having to spend $50 and waiting several months until Dan got around to it. As it is now the format seems to be successful as Dan's inching closer to the 1000 patron mark so I guess while some may not like how things are going, the numbers are what matters.

And it's not like Dan's gone full blown fanservice with the pinups, IMO there seems to be a decent mix of tame ones (Susan/Diane sequence, Ashley as Cheerleadra) as well as risque ones (Nanase/Fox, nude Grace, Sarah and Ellen). And while the most recent round of pinups were certainly on the extreme end, the next round doesn't strike me as being too risque. At least it seems like our choices will all be clothed to varying degrees, can't speak for Dan's choices obviously. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He makes the choices, we vote for the choices.

But as long as there are a lot of art being circulated every month, I am satisfied.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We make the suggestions, and he takes the top 4 liked  and we vote on those, kinda like a pinup idol or something. The suggestions he happens to put into a survey are ones that someone suggested in a previous round that didn't quite make it but were close enough to deserve another chance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But again, the pinups are something he is/feels obligated to make because of Patreon commitments.  The sketchbooks used to be something he could use to express his own creativity without disrupting the storyline in progress.  He used to seem to enjoy making them, when they were all his own ideas and not an obligation to anyone.  I just wonder, is he not doing them any more because he got burned out on them from all the pressure?  Is he doing his own thing, and just not sharing them with us?  Or has he really changed so much that he doesn't have any desire to do sketches any more?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The other thing to consider, is Dan is doing this to make a living full time, and in order for him to make money he has to put out incentives for people to donate. It does kinda suck that he needs to give people a reason to donate other than just "support me making story and NP comics". I personally started supporting him on Patreon with the $5 tier before he switched to the pinup format so I didn't expect anything in return other than his continued work on the comics. As I said before, the change to the pinup format was just a bonus because it allowed me to participate in the idea and selection process, the fact that an idea I suggested was used was another bonus but for the most part, the process has been fun for me. Also the "Dan's Choice" pinups can still be considered him expressing his own creativity since they're his ideas even if they are part of the same format.

Another way of looking at this is Dan is trying to improve on himself as a person. You can look at the MV5 storyline and tell that he's for a while been uncomfortable with showing certain subject matter and that he hates that he's uncomfortable with it and is trying overcome this. The pinups as well I recall were something he stated he never considered doing before because he was uncomfortable with drawing nude characters or risque scenarios but had a desire to change.

IMO he seems to be having fun with this, and probably feels less stress doing these for $5 a person instead of stressing over whether a sketchbook for a $50 donator is good enough.

Matoyak likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The $3250 per month that Dan is currently pledged through Patreon is almost enough to replace a middle-class job as a source of income. If he can scrounge up an extra grand per month from other sources (e.g. ads or merchandise), then he can live an average lifestyle without having a job. He may not even need that extra grand if his rent is a grand per month or less.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

$3250 per month may be enough to get by, but not get ahead.

I hope he has additional income.

 

Edited by Pharaoh RutinTutin
spelling

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oddly enough, where?

I am pretty sure people need a hundred grand (or two or three) to, at least, survive the year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Stature said:

Oddly enough, where?

I am pretty sure people need a hundred grand (or two or three) to, at least, survive the year.

Depends on the cost of living where you are. I know that in Australia, some cities have excessive house prices, leading to high mortgages, leading to high interest costs. At the same time, other cities are far more affordable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I poorly guesstimate the US cost of living and guesstimated the "best average" American yearly income instead.

In my town, both cost of living and yearly income (partly) is actually about 10-30 US grand. Whoops. But still, kinda high in the med-low 20's to 30's.

Water, food, electricity, tuition, gas, telco, (rent is rare,) what else am I missing?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Stature said:

I poorly guesstimate the US cost of living and guesstimated the "best average" American yearly income instead.

In my town, it is actually about 10-30 US grand. Oops. But still, kinda high in the med-low 20's to 30's.

Water, food, electricity, tuition, gas, telco, (rent is rare,) what else am I missing?

Mortgage repayments.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Stature said:

I poorly guesstimate the US cost of living and guesstimated the "best average" American yearly income instead.

In my town, it is actually about 10-30 US grand. Oops. But still, kinda high in the med-low 20's to 30's.

Water, food, electricity, tuition, gas, telco, (rent is rare,) what else am I missing?

Health care.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Median income in the USA (for those having a non-zero income) for the year 2013 is $43,585 according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income

$3250/month is $39k, which is almost 90% of this. It's a livable amount for a single person if housing costs no more than $1k/month (housing can be as high as $3k/month for a three-bedroom house or apartment in high-demand areas--and these areas are often large enough that finding a cheaper home involves tolerating a two-hour-each-way daily commute), but it is still kind of low given that Dan would have to pay all of the self-employment taxes that employers normally count as being "outside" of salary/wages (e.g. the employer half of Social Security tax).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now