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Illjwamh

NP: Friday, May 19, 2017

22 posts in this topic

8 minutes ago, Illjwamh said:

The list of changes in the commentary was fun. I was confident throughout the story that I noticed most of them, but there were definitely a few that I'd missed.

Well, sure ... darker eyes? That's really hard to notice. (Ok, that wasn't only thing I didn't noticed ...)

On 04/22/2017 at 0:17 AM, hkmaly said:
On 04/21/2017 at 7:06 AM, partner555 said:

The background mother and daughter switched hairstyles and clothes.

No, they switched age and position :)

Called it! Dan confirmed the change was age and position and not hairstyle and clothes.

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It's ironic that Grace says "Game's back on, boys!" when she's the boy and Drake, Duck and Bill are all girls.

 

"8 - The shirt of the customer in the background either becomes a tank top or vanishes " I can still have the headcanon that she's topless. ;)

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30 minutes ago, Scotty said:

"8 - The shirt of the customer in the background either becomes a tank top or vanishes " I can still have the headcanon that she's topless. ;)

I am terribly sorry, but whenever I hear that someone is wearing a tank top, this is still what I first think of.

br57Yal.jpg

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Just now, The Old Hack said:

I am terribly sorry, but whenever I hear that someone is wearing a tank top, this is still what I first think of.

br57Yal.jpg

I guess I shouldn't have said "headcanon" either in that case. ;)

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8 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

I am terribly sorry, but whenever I hear that someone is wearing a tank top, this is still what I first think of.

br57Yal.jpg

M4sherman-Tropica-40%size

 

 

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8 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

M4sherman-Tropica-40%size

 

 

I think something similar when I hear the name "Thomas the Tank Engine"

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2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Well, sure ... darker eyes? That's really hard to notice. (Ok, that wasn't only thing I didn't noticed ...)

Needle in a haystack, unless got bored and scrolled through one by one.

And thus it ends in a 90's style action shot.

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Some residents of Moperville are intermittently aware of their existence as comic characters.

Are there physical symptoms, like migraines or hallucinations, as that awareness comes and goes?

When aware of their place in a comic, do the characters want to remain aware?  Or do they long for a return to their shared illusion?  That is, Red Pill or Blue Pill?

There is significant speculation that our reality may be a simulation on a powerful computer.  Do we really want to know if there is an outside to reality?  Can we interact meaningfully with the programmers or users?

This could almost be a theological question.  The user can see anything and everything that has ever happened in the program.  The programmer can change details.

When the program PharaohRutinTutin1.0 stops running in this system, is PRT2.0 started on another system?

 

This is one of those times that my ramblings frighten me...

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34 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Some residents of Moperville are intermittently aware of their existence as comic characters.

Are there physical symptoms, like migraines or hallucinations, as that awareness comes and goes?

When aware of their place in a comic, do the characters want to remain aware?  Or do they long for a return to their shared illusion?  That is, Red Pill or Blue Pill?

Unlike some other comics, in EGS canon there is noone aware of this being comic. Of course, there is Rat and Matt, but those are not canon. And almost everyone is aware when outside the continuity (or in non-canon). But there doesn't seem any CHANGE in who is aware and who isn't.

Even Grace's reaction here isn't "what do you mean" but more resembles being notified about being in dream: she immediately recognizes the situation.

34 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

There is significant speculation that our reality may be a simulation on a powerful computer.  Do we really want to know if there is an outside to reality?  Can we interact meaningfully with the programmers or users?

If we can't interact with programmers nor users (outside reality in general) AND are unable to "hack" the program, then the question of existence of outside reality is meaningless. But considering some very popular stories of people hacking reality ...

34 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

This could almost be a theological question.

Almost?

34 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

The user can see anything and everything that has ever happened in the program.

Not in my programs. Wouldn't be secure.

 

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2 hours ago, T'Renn said:

Lucky you, then. When I hear "tank tops" I flash on THIS.

Well it IS closer to how the sleeveless shirts are worn ... but I must admit I was deliberately searching for image with girl because there was higher chance it will be pretty :)

 

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2 hours ago, Illjwamh said:

Are they not? Has Dan said this? I don't remember.

I believe they fit into Dan's 2002 exemption. He says that a lot of odd stuff and plotholes happened in 2002 and that it is sort of its own little world. Too much trouble to fix but not really canon.

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Yeah, 2002 is all over the place in terms of "continuity" and "canon," especially in terms of fourth wall acknowledgement or awareness. In "Introductions" there's no fourth wall whatsoever; Tedd, Elliot and Sarah are fully aware they're webcomic characters and the former two frequently talk to us directly, and no editorial distinction is made between the strips in which Dr. Germahn appears by himself (or with just Amanda) and the one in which he interacts with Tedd and Elliot. With "Goo," the fourth wall goes up and stays up, except for "Q&A #1," "April Fools Week" and the occasional filler strip Dan never got around to putting in the Sketchbook section. :-) But then we have moments like this, and the above-mentioned Rat and Matt, where the fourth wall goes down and then back up and then down and AAAUGH DIZZY ~_~

...Where was I? Oh yeah, and that's not even including all the 2002 stuff that, while fourth-wall compliant, is still very weird in light of later characterization and plot. Like Elliot (in "Introductions") being just as much of a perv to Sarah as Tedd is, and having a noticeably erotic repartee with Nanase in "Relations, Pt. 2," in contrast to later arcs where he's so sexually inhibited he can't fantasize even about a total stranger without feeling guilty and Sarah feels starved for intimacy while dating him ("We're still virgins!"). Or Susan coming on to FV5ed Elliot in "Sister" (before Dan redrew and rewrote the last two panels). Or Greg's mania in his first appearances throughout "Relations, Pt. 2," as opposed to his calmer, more rational personality afterward. And so forth. All part of the comic's natural growing pains!

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4 hours ago, TamarTree said:

Yeah, 2002 is all over the place in terms of "continuity" and "canon," especially in terms of fourth wall acknowledgement or awareness. In "Introductions" there's no fourth wall whatsoever; Tedd, Elliot and Sarah are fully aware they're webcomic characters and the former two frequently talk to us directly, and no editorial distinction is made between the strips in which Dr. Germahn appears by himself (or with just Amanda) and the one in which he interacts with Tedd and Elliot. With "Goo," the fourth wall goes up and stays up, except for "Q&A #1," "April Fools Week" and the occasional filler strip Dan never got around to putting in the Sketchbook section. :-) But then we have moments like this, and the above-mentioned Rat and Matt, where the fourth wall goes down and then back up and then down and AAAUGH DIZZY ~_~

...Where was I? Oh yeah, and that's not even including all the 2002 stuff that, while fourth-wall compliant, is still very weird in light of later characterization and plot. Like Elliot (in "Introductions") being just as much of a perv to Sarah as Tedd is, and having a noticeably erotic repartee with Nanase in "Relations, Pt. 2," in contrast to later arcs where he's so sexually inhibited he can't fantasize even about a total stranger without feeling guilty and Sarah feels starved for intimacy while dating him ("We're still virgins!"). Or Susan coming on to FV5ed Elliot in "Sister" (before Dan redrew and rewrote the last two panels). Or Greg's mania in his first appearances throughout "Relations, Pt. 2," as opposed to his calmer, more rational personality afterward. And so forth. All part of the comic's natural growing pains!

An excellent summary, though you forgot to mention Grace being far less naive than she later ended up being. It's not so easy to write all this off as non-canon though, since so much of what happened that year did have a very profound influence on the rest of the story.

 

What you are describing is merely Early Installment Weirdness. (Warning: TVTropes Link. Do not click if you have somewhere to be today.)

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13 hours ago, Illjwamh said:
18 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Unlike some other comics, in EGS canon there is noone aware of this being comic. Of course, there is Rat and Matt, but those are not canon.

Are they not? Has Dan said this? I don't remember.

Dan effectively said this IN THAT COMICS COMMENTARY :)

6 hours ago, TamarTree said:

Where was I? Oh yeah, and that's not even including all the 2002 stuff that, while fourth-wall compliant, is still very weird in light of later characterization and plot. Like Elliot (in "Introductions") being just as much of a perv to Sarah as Tedd is, and having a noticeably erotic repartee with Nanase in "Relations, Pt. 2," in contrast to later arcs where he's so sexually inhibited he can't fantasize even about a total stranger without feeling guilty and Sarah feels starved for intimacy while dating him ("We're still virgins!"). Or Susan coming on to FV5ed Elliot in "Sister" (before Dan redrew and rewrote the last two panels). Or Greg's mania in his first appearances throughout "Relations, Pt. 2," as opposed to his calmer, more rational personality afterward. And so forth. All part of the comic's natural growing pains!

It's not THAT bad. Elliot "being" perv can be big talk and overcompensation combined by bad influence from both Tedd and Nanase. With Tedd being less perv and Nanase not influencing him so much, he got more inhibited, because despite Sarah actually wanting to be more intimate she wasn't able to make it as obvious as Nanase. Also, it's not like he actually got further away with Nanase than with Sarah. And that "fail to fantasize about total stranger" was caused by thinking too much about it ; he was transforming to girls lot of times before and surely had sexy thoughts about it, but when he tried to transform SPECIFICALLY for sexy thoughts, he got guild trip.

Susans coming on to FV5ed Elliot was basically Dan thinking that pheromones are WAY stronger than they are and Susan failing to resist spectacularly. And Greg's mania could've easily be played. And similar explanation works for Grace actually - she was and is pretending to be more "bubbly" than she actually is, while she possibly tried to pretend to be less naive first, based on incomplete informations (the trenchcoat case).

There are actually worse cases, like Susan and Nanase name-calling each other (mentioned here), although personally I find teenagers using that sort of language more believable than current status. Susan's character DID changed noticeably, including what she wears.

But surprisingly, lot of stuff which SEEMED like "Early Instalment Weirdness" was later explained in canon. Like hammers or Susan's sword. (Although ... technically, Gillian being able to summon the hammer is still unexplained). And people HAD character growth so them reacting differently in past than in present isn't that much obvious.

 

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9 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Dan effectively said this IN THAT COMICS COMMENTARY :)

Lol. So he did. I don't think I've ever read any of the classic commentaries.

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13 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Like Elliot (in "Introductions") being just as much of a perv to Sarah as Tedd is, and having a noticeably erotic repartee with Nanase in "Relations, Pt. 2," in contrast to later arcs where he's so sexually inhibited he can't fantasize even about a total stranger without feeling guilty and Sarah feels starved for intimacy while dating him ("We're still virgins!").

In Hammerchlorians we saw Elliot and Sarah making out in Elliot's bedroom, well it didn't seem like they had gone far before Elliot's magic interrupted. We don't know if that's the last time they tried to be intimate though. As for the "we're still virgins!" part, I'm pretty certain the whole setup for that was laid out in 2002. Note when Nanase broke up with Elliot, she said "the fact that we've actually discussed how you feel about relationships before...".

Actually Elliot's and Sarah's relationship was doomed to fail before it even started, Grace predicted it back in 2002. Elliot essentially gave in because Sarah said she loved him, and he tried to go along with it, but his refusal to take the lead on anything was due to him being afraid of doing something that would hurt Sarah and ruin their friendship. Elliot was fine with doing things with Nanase, although it was clear they didn't go all the way either, but he hadn't known Nanase all his life so he didn't have all those extra feelings like he did with Sarah, though he still held back somewhat.

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14 hours ago, Illjwamh said:
23 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Dan effectively said this IN THAT COMICS COMMENTARY :)

Lol. So he did. I don't think I've ever read any of the classic commentaries.

You should. This is not the only interesting part. And it's not like there are so many of them ... unfortunately, Dan still didn't caught with where the commentaries started.

9 hours ago, Scotty said:

Actually Elliot's and Sarah's relationship was doomed to fail before it even started, Grace predicted it back in 2002.

What she predicted was what happened in the Dojo. She failed to predict Nanase forces him to fix that and that the fix will work at least temporary. (Well, she couldn't, she didn't knew Nanase back then ...)

9 hours ago, Scotty said:

Elliot essentially gave in because Sarah said she loved him, and he tried to go along with it, but his refusal to take the lead on anything was due to him being afraid of doing something that would hurt Sarah and ruin their friendship.

That might contributed, but I think that he is bad in leading in general. And not only me - Nanase thinks that too and she knows him very well. Also, he may be afraid to make anyone pregnant.

9 hours ago, Scotty said:

Elliot was fine with doing things with Nanase, although it was clear they didn't go all the way either, but he hadn't known Nanase all his life so he didn't have all those extra feelings like he did with Sarah, though he still held back somewhat.

I think Nanase was OK with leading that. It was actually ideal for her - she didn't wanted to get too far either, until she manages to get attracted to him. So, his main problem with Sarah was that Sarah expected more from him than Nanase did.

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

What she predicted was what happened in the Dojo. She failed to predict Nanase forces him to fix that and that the fix will work at least temporary. (Well, she couldn't, she didn't knew Nanase back then ...)

Still, they didn't remain a couple and while the broken heart bit passed and Grace's relationship sense must have said they wouldn't remain a couple, she probably wanted to be wrong though.

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

That might contributed, but I think that he is bad in leading in general. And not only me - Nanase thinks that too and she knows him very well. Also, he may be afraid to make anyone pregnant.

Getting Sarah pregnant would be one of the things Elliot would consider friendship ruining, and yes that would apply to everyone, even Ashley, though Nanase's "or, you know, being the same sex." remark would at least help in Elliot's case.

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I think Nanase was OK with leading that. It was actually ideal for her - she didn't wanted to get too far either, until she manages to get attracted to him. So, his main problem with Sarah was that Sarah expected more from him than Nanase did.

Yeah, Nanase wasn't too worried, even if she did want to go that far with Elliot, she probably wouldn't have because she'd be afraid of what her mom would say if she got pregnant before finishing high school. It is strange that while Elliot and Nanase apparently had that talk, but it doesn't seem like Elliot talked about it with Sarah.

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7 minutes ago, Scotty said:
3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

That might contributed, but I think that he is bad in leading in general. And not only me - Nanase thinks that too and she knows him very well. Also, he may be afraid to make anyone pregnant.

Getting Sarah pregnant would be one of the things Elliot would consider friendship ruining, and yes that would apply to everyone, even Ashley, though Nanase's "or, you know, being the same sex." remark would at least help in Elliot's case.

Unfortunately she only said it to Sarah, but yes, I hope Elliot realizes that too. Sarah likely wouldn't count that anyway, but Ashley likely will. (Nanase obviously does.)

8 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Yeah, Nanase wasn't too worried, even if she did want to go that far with Elliot, she probably wouldn't have because she'd be afraid of what her mom would say if she got pregnant before finishing high school.

Hmmm, yes, based on her comment she probably wouldn't consider other methods safe enough to risk mom's wrath if they fail. Sarah meanwhile have at least one method of protection she trust enough.

12 minutes ago, Scotty said:

It is strange that while Elliot and Nanase apparently had that talk, but it doesn't seem like Elliot talked about it with Sarah.

What makes you thing they "had that talk"? I think it's more likely Nanase just guessed correctly. In fact, if it would be something Elliot told her she would likely formulate what she said differently.

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