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Scotty

Story, Friday February 2, 2018

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25 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Let's see here:

Voltaire knew that Tedd was a Seer. And he knew what the Seers second purpose was and it's involvement is the system change.

Voltaire's original attempt to influence Tedd, by killing Elliot failed, however he later realized that just informing Tedd of the system changing might have done the job.

Voltaire's "Plan CM" involved influencing Sirleck into setting up an incident involving vampires and targeting Adrian Raven in a very public place, an incident that was hinted would be "the last straw".

Voltaire knew who Adrian's mother was, so he knew how powerful she'd be, it's quite possible that the spell she used is known by other Immortals as well so Voltaire probably knew about it.

I think Voltaire intended on Pandora using that spell in order to protect her son, if using the connection to force all Immortals to cast that spell wasn't on his list, it was just an unintended side effect but the main goal of forcing Pandora to do something to get reset in a public place and causing the WoM to possibly change the system so far seems to be successful, the only thing that could throw a wrench in this is if Tedd does something unexpected.

Voltaire seems to know a lot about Pandora.  he gave the "pithos" medallion to Dex to control him, which tells us he knew she was around and who she was.  He knew Raven was an elf, which suggests he knew who Adrian's mother was.  So if he knows all that, he might also know what Pandora did to the Earth's werewolf population.  so: provoke Pandora to do something so egregious that Immortals have to call a Rule Committee together.  A magic reset lobotomizes earth's mages, leaving the place a playground for Immortals.

As a completely different aside, it took me this long to see that Dan had built a pretty solid "Parent, Adult, Child", or "Superego, Ego, Id" trinary out of Arthur, Tedd and Van.

As another completely different aside, the way to cut beck the number of seers weighing in on the next magic change, broadcast what the Seer's second function is across the internet.

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20 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:
55 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Let's see here:

Voltaire knew that Tedd was a Seer. And he knew what the Seers second purpose was and it's involvement is the system change.

Voltaire's original attempt to influence Tedd, by killing Elliot failed, however he later realized that just informing Tedd of the system changing might have done the job.

Voltaire's "Plan CM" involved influencing Sirleck into setting up an incident involving vampires and targeting Adrian Raven in a very public place, an incident that was hinted would be "the last straw".

Voltaire knew who Adrian's mother was, so he knew how powerful she'd be, it's quite possible that the spell she used is known by other Immortals as well so Voltaire probably knew about it.

I think Voltaire intended on Pandora using that spell in order to protect her son, if using the connection to force all Immortals to cast that spell wasn't on his list, it was just an unintended side effect but the main goal of forcing Pandora to do something to get reset in a public place and causing the WoM to possibly change the system so far seems to be successful, the only thing that could throw a wrench in this is if Tedd does something unexpected.

Voltaire seems to know a lot about Pandora.  he gave the "pithos" medallion to Dex to control him, which tells us he knew she was around and who she was.  He knew Raven was an elf, which suggests he knew who Adrian's mother was.  So if he knows all that, he might also know what Pandora did to the Earth's werewolf population.  so: provoke Pandora to do something so egregious that Immortals have to call a Rule Committee together.  A magic reset lobotomizes earth's mages, leaving the place a playground for Immortals.

As a completely different aside, it took me this long to see that Dan had built a pretty solid "Parent, Adult, Child", or "Superego, Ego, Id" trinary out of Arthur, Tedd and Van.

As another completely different aside, the way to cut beck the number of seers weighing in on the next magic change, broadcast what the Seer's second function is across the internet.

The pithos medallion also served to drive a wedge between Adrian and Pandora, causing their emotions to run higher than normal and likely preventing them from calmly discussing things that could lead them to discovering Voltaire's hand in events. I doubt that was accidental.

Also as an aside, I realized that if Tedd not being as traumatized as Voltaire wanted him to be caused his plan to fail, then it would technically be due to the Will of Magic fulfilling it obligation to try to prevent system change by sending the Emissary to Grace's dreams which dominoed into so many other things.

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15 hours ago, Douglas said:

And we already know how magic itself blocks the spread of knowledge - by doing severe system changes. Depending on that would just mean that Tedd's right and they'd be back with a new batch of seers (around a thousand this time) advising magic on a new change in short order.

Possibly in few WEEKS.

14 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Lord Tedd was a seer in his world.  Saw the magic reset.  And convinced (or caused) the other seers to remain silent, which is why he is now the most powerful magical being in his world.

How would he do that? NOONE is able to find the seers before they start using magic. While the possibility of general Shade Tail going after seers seems to match his personality, he wouldn't be able to find them.

Existence of thousand other seers makes Lord Tedd harder to explain ... unless ... maybe all seers became "new royalty". Maybe Lord Tedd is not as unique as he seemed to.

Or there was conventional, nuclear or magic war in his universe causing population drop. Before or after reset.

14 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

But he WAS thinking there were only a very few seers - possibly he thought there were just five. In the whole world. (If he thought less than five, he definitely wasn't paying attention.)

Think of the implications of there being only five seers - with two of them in Moperville. That (if it were true) would mean there are only a very few places in the world where magic can quickly start spreading again - a maximum of four places, currently. He's in one, and he can make inquiries through DGB channels to find where Van is, to immediately monitor two of them.

Now that he knows the correct number is likely somewhere in the vicinity of a thousand, he's somewhere in the general vicinity of panic. Maybe not quite there, but close. Because he knows there's no way that a thousand people will all keep quiet about it.

It also means that approximately 995 seers have no prior knowledge of magic, and thus are unlikely to be monitored by their countries' equivalents of DGB. So magic can start erupting at roughly a thousand different places, the large majority of them being unidentifiable until after something happens. Result: most likely, about half of those places will come to DGB's attention by way of YouTube and equivalents. Which is extremely inconsistent with keeping magic secret.

He was probably expecting around ten seers. That WOULD be possible to monitor and somehow contain. Hard, but possible. Thousand? No way.

13 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

Ironically, the best way to slow knowledge of magic from spreading will be to choose to go public. That way at least they will avoid a huge amount of new seers starting to spread the word.

No way to put the genie back in the bottle, but that way they may at least be able to slow it enough to allow them to prepare a little for the coming magocalypse. :icon_eek:

Yes. I totally expect Arthur Arthur will immediately change mind and argue for this.

7 hours ago, Drasvin said:

Unfortunately, Tedd, Arthur, and Van aren't there to discuss how Magic should change, but to simply discuss whether it should change severely to maintain secrecy or if it should change minimally to prepare for going public. They might be able to suggest things to Magic, but that's not why they are there.

Magic might not be willing to let them suggest anything about new rules. Quite likely, it already has plan WHAT the new rules would be. Also, IF they plan some big change, it will cause seers to know. With thousand of them, it would be hard to set up system which would be safe enough this sort of revelation will be less dangerous than doing the small change and hoping current rules (with just small change) will work.

5 hours ago, Tuscahoma said:

If Magic is intrinsic, tied to Gaia, an emergent property of Human Consciousness, or some such, then as long as you have this kind of population growth, the eventual reveal of Magic was always going to happen, and perhaps that is what has happened in the Magic-rich Universes we know about, just earlier in their timelines.

Most likely, on the other side of EGS universe, some seers in past decided to go public with magic despite not being forced by population growth so much.

But note that there was no magic reset for CENTURIES. Magic going public was actually surprisingly late in EGS universe, based on population. If the reset happened with say 700 millions of humans, it would STILL be LOT of seers knowing it ... and there was already billion in 1804 and while there was no internet, it was already possible to spread news relatively quickly.

It seems that DGB doing so good job suppressing magic knowledge only caused the inevitable revelation of magic to be more catastrophic.

5 hours ago, Tuscahoma said:

Ironically, in a world with Magic revealed, it would make more sense to lessen the limits on Immortals, but I can see why Voltaire wouldn't like this.  Immortals may be powerful, but imagine an Immortal with plans of Godhood going up against fully staffed and militarily trained regiments of Magicians prepared to face magical threats; as well it would difficult to impress people that you are a deity if everyone knows about Magic and the bestiary of magical creatures just by looking it up on Wikipedia.

Yes ; Voltaire would definitely prefer most people not knowing about magic. He wants to play god, not fairy.

5 hours ago, Tuscahoma said:

Oh my gosh, youtube videos of DIY magic hacks; magic geeks publishing a magical-themed Make magazine featuring projects you can do with magic crossed with other tech disciplines!

Sorry, got distracted by the Happy Shininess of applying geekness to magic.

That's exactly what Arthur wants to prevent.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

I think Voltaire intended on Pandora using that spell in order to protect her son, if using the connection to force all Immortals to cast that spell wasn't on his list, it was just an unintended side effect but the main goal of forcing Pandora to do something to get reset in a public place and causing the WoM to possibly change the system so far seems to be successful, the only thing that could throw a wrench in this is if Tedd does something unexpected.

Which Tedd probably WILL do - I would say that Voltaire didn't expected Pandora will visit Tedd and make her much less traumatized.

2 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

As another completely different aside, the way to cut beck the number of seers weighing in on the next magic change, broadcast what the Seer's second function is across the internet.

Now, limiting the list of seers consulted on next change to the ones without access to internet ... you think it will help?

I think the number of seers on next magic change is not issue. The issue is that there WILL be another reset shortly after that, with zero seers. And magic wouldn't actually need any seers to consult to see that trying to keep itself secret by resets is futile with thousand seers knowing what the change is.

1 hour ago, Drasvin said:

Also as an aside, I realized that if Tedd not being as traumatized as Voltaire wanted him to be caused his plan to fail, then it would technically be due to the Will of Magic fulfilling it obligation to try to prevent system change by sending the Emissary to Grace's dreams which dominoed into so many other things.

On the other hand, Tedd was only traumatized in first place BECAUSE information from Grace's dreams.

 

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2 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Yes. I totally expect Arthur Arthur will immediately change mind and argue for this.

Or maybe he'll just give the whole thing up as a bad job, go draw a couple swords out of stones, boot Theresa May out of Number Ten and rule England as her rightwise born king. :danshiftyeyes:

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4 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:
7 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Yes. I totally expect Arthur Arthur will immediately change mind and argue for this.

Or maybe he'll just give the whole thing up as a bad job, go draw a couple swords out of stones, boot Theresa May out of Number Ten and rule England as her rightwise born king. :danshiftyeyes:

England already has Queen. He would likely replace the Queen, not Theresa May.

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3 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

England already has Queen. He would likely replace the Queen, not Theresa May.

Can he hold off until she passes on, and then replace Chuck instead?

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7 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:
11 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

England already has Queen. He would likely replace the Queen, not Theresa May.

Can he hold off until she passes on, and then replace Chuck instead?

Chuck Norris?

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7 hours ago, Drasvin said:

It's not too unreasonable, if Voltaire knows certain points of Pandora's history. He would know that she cares deeply about her family and that when a werewolf killed her husband, she influenced events to eradicate them. All he had to do was nudge events to play out in a way that guaranteed that Pandora would have to break Immortal law to save Adrian's life. Then she would want to do something to protect her family from the threat that almost killed Adrian, and since she doesn't the time to carefully influence things to eradicate the threat, she would have to do something big and drastic. Pandora knew about the connection between Immortals after one breaks the Laws and figured out how to use it to cast her spell, so it wouldn't be out of the question for Voltaire to have figured that out.

Okay, I can buy most of this, except knowing that Pandora would take advantage of the connection. Zeus was surprised that Pandora did, so how would Voltaire know?

6 hours ago, Tuscahoma said:

I am more concerned about the fallout for Tedd in this, especially because he is now on Arthur's radar.

He was always on Arthur's radar. Pandora said that Edward has been using full disclosure to protect Tedd and friends from even bigger government scrutiny. That being said, the protection afforded by the full disclosure thing might be lost.

2 hours ago, Drasvin said:

The pithos medallion also served to drive a wedge between Adrian and Pandora, causing their emotions to run higher than normal and likely preventing them from calmly discussing things that could lead them to discovering Voltaire's hand in events. I doubt that was accidental.

Actually, as per the commentary on when that was brought up, Pandora being framed is not the only reason why they have issues. Remember Abraham?

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34 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Chuck Norris?

Chuck Norris' tears can cure cancer, Big Pharma would never allow anyone to hurt him.

 

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16 minutes ago, hkmaly said:
15 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Lord Tedd was a seer in his world.  Saw the magic reset.  And convinced (or caused) the other seers to remain silent, which is why he is now the most powerful magical being in his world.

How would he do that? NOONE is able to find the seers before they start using magic. While the possibility of general Shade Tail going after seers seems to match his personality, he wouldn't be able to find them.

Existence of thousand other seers makes Lord Tedd harder to explain ... unless ... maybe all seers became "new royalty". Maybe Lord Tedd is not as unique as he seemed to.

Or there was conventional, nuclear or magic war in his universe causing population drop. Before or after reset.

Likely no one has found seers is because no one has been looking for them. Knowledge of them was lost to all but a few entities (Heka and Voltaire that we know of). They have high level of magical power, crazy good resistance, and lack the ability to Awaken and get spells. Presumably, something like Luke's magic mark spell could be used to detect seers. And even if Luke's magic mark wouldn't work, there's possibly some way to find seers. I don't think there's been any mention that seers can't be found (Tedd's magical aptitude wasn't detected when he was young because the wand scared him and he resisted it)

That said, a simpler possibility is that Lord Tedd became the ruler of his world the "old-fashioned" way. I have speculated (not here, just to myself) that the "royalness" the griffin's saw in Nanase's aura is some of the pieces needed to become a seer. Nanase isn't a seer because she doesn't have all of the pieces/genes/whatever needed to be one. In a world with newly revealed magic, seers would be able to leverage their knowledge, magical power, and abilities to accumulate political and social power. Lord Tedd could have used promises of power to build up a power base and then go conquering. Other seers and magic users would have opposed him, but he had something they didn't. He had General Shade Tail. Someone as disproportionately powerful as Grace with none of her inhibitions against violence and killing (and I suspect the opposite: General Shade Tail enjoys bloodshed). Also Lord Tedd has his gauntlet, which lets him boost the power of his already strong seer abilities. Between Shade Tail's frightening physical prowess and Lord Tedd boosting him further via wands(as in Lord Tedd casting boosting spells from the wand on Shade Tail. General Shade Tail likely would have as much trouble using them as Grace does), they could make short work of just about anyone that would stand in their way, at least long enough to build an army to take on larger threats(And if magic wasn't public in their world and tried to reset to undermine this magic army, Lord Tedd is a seer in the perfect position to reteach his army magic).

10 minutes ago, partner555 said:
7 hours ago, Drasvin said:

It's not too unreasonable, if Voltaire knows certain points of Pandora's history. He would know that she cares deeply about her family and that when a werewolf killed her husband, she influenced events to eradicate them. All he had to do was nudge events to play out in a way that guaranteed that Pandora would have to break Immortal law to save Adrian's life. Then she would want to do something to protect her family from the threat that almost killed Adrian, and since she doesn't the time to carefully influence things to eradicate the threat, she would have to do something big and drastic. Pandora knew about the connection between Immortals after one breaks the Laws and figured out how to use it to cast her spell, so it wouldn't be out of the question for Voltaire to have figured that out.

Okay, I can buy most of this, except knowing that Pandora would take advantage of the connection. Zeus was surprised that Pandora did, so how would Voltaire know?

Zeus was a fairly newly reset Immortal that hadn't been spending who knows how long building an intricate plan based on the personalities and histories of multiple individuals. Once Pandora had broken the law to save Adrian, she almost certainly would have done something to try to keep her family safe from that threat, especially with reminders of her family around her right then. And the connection was right there. It would give whatever spell she cast the most effective range she could on such short notice.

19 minutes ago, partner555 said:
3 hours ago, Drasvin said:

The pithos medallion also served to drive a wedge between Adrian and Pandora, causing their emotions to run higher than normal and likely preventing them from calmly discussing things that could lead them to discovering Voltaire's hand in events. I doubt that was accidental.

Actually, as per the commentary on when that was brought up, Pandora being framed is not the only reason why they have issues. Remember Abraham?

True, though Adrian believing his mother was the one responsible for the attack on the dojo would compound the issues they had, ratcheting up emotions further, and preventing Adrian from suspecting another Immortal might be responsible (like another Immortal that shows up in public trying to get people killed). If Voltaire hadn't framed Pandora, the emotions in that argument might not have peaked as far (or at least as quickly) as they did, and Adrian might have said something or asked the right question and revealed Voltaire's plot.

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30 minutes ago, partner555 said:
7 hours ago, Tuscahoma said:

I am more concerned about the fallout for Tedd in this, especially because he is now on Arthur's radar.

He was always on Arthur's radar. Pandora said that Edward has been using full disclosure to protect Tedd and friends from even bigger government scrutiny. That being said, the protection afforded by the full disclosure thing might be lost.

Arthur Arthur might have reasonable doubt about how full that disclosure actually was now ...

8 minutes ago, Drasvin said:

Likely no one has found seers is because no one has been looking for them. Knowledge of them was lost to all but a few entities (Heka and Voltaire that we know of). They have high level of magical power, crazy good resistance, and lack the ability to Awaken and get spells. Presumably, something like Luke's magic mark spell could be used to detect seers. And even if Luke's magic mark wouldn't work, there's possibly some way to find seers. I don't think there's been any mention that seers can't be found (Tedd's magical aptitude wasn't detected when he was young because the wand scared him and he resisted it)

Luke's magic mark spell, as well as the magic analyzer wand, are pretty short-range. You want to travel over whole world and look at every person?

9 minutes ago, Drasvin said:

That said, a simpler possibility is that Lord Tedd became the ruler of his world the "old-fashioned" way. I have speculated (not here, just to myself) that the "royalness" the griffin's saw in Nanase's aura is some of the pieces needed to become a seer. Nanase isn't a seer because she doesn't have all of the pieces/genes/whatever needed to be one. In a world with newly revealed magic, seers would be able to leverage their knowledge, magical power, and abilities to accumulate political and social power. Lord Tedd could have used promises of power to build up a power base and then go conquering. Other seers and magic users would have opposed him, but he had something they didn't. He had General Shade Tail. Someone as disproportionately powerful as Grace with none of her inhibitions against violence and killing (and I suspect the opposite: General Shade Tail enjoys bloodshed). Also Lord Tedd has his gauntlet, which lets him boost the power of his already strong seer abilities. Between Shade Tail's frightening physical prowess and Lord Tedd boosting him further via wands(as in Lord Tedd casting boosting spells from the wand on Shade Tail. General Shade Tail likely would have as much trouble using them as Grace does), they could make short work of just about anyone that would stand in their way, at least long enough to build an army to take on larger threats(And if magic wasn't public in their world and tried to reset to undermine this magic army, Lord Tedd is a seer in the perfect position to reteach his army magic).

Hmmmm ... true, Lord Tedd had his gauntlet and generally at least some headstart on other seers. Except Lord Tedd conquering world this way, even with General Shade Tail, doesn't seem to match his personality ...

And yes ; one of major problem with magic trying to stop armies by magic reset is if the army is led by seer ...

12 minutes ago, Drasvin said:
36 minutes ago, partner555 said:

Okay, I can buy most of this, except knowing that Pandora would take advantage of the connection. Zeus was surprised that Pandora did, so how would Voltaire know?

Zeus was a fairly newly reset Immortal that hadn't been spending who knows how long building an intricate plan based on the personalities and histories of multiple individuals. Once Pandora had broken the law to save Adrian, she almost certainly would have done something to try to keep her family safe from that threat, especially with reminders of her family around her right then. And the connection was right there. It would give whatever spell she cast the most effective range she could on such short notice.

Voltaire might not know about taking advantage of the connection. He might've assumed that Pandora does something little different in her attempt to protect her family which would STILL be effective enough in convincing immortals rules need to change.

14 minutes ago, Drasvin said:
38 minutes ago, partner555 said:
3 hours ago, Drasvin said:

The pithos medallion also served to drive a wedge between Adrian and Pandora, causing their emotions to run higher than normal and likely preventing them from calmly discussing things that could lead them to discovering Voltaire's hand in events. I doubt that was accidental.

Actually, as per the commentary on when that was brought up, Pandora being framed is not the only reason why they have issues. Remember Abraham?

True, though Adrian believing his mother was the one responsible for the attack on the dojo would compound the issues they had, ratcheting up emotions further, and preventing Adrian from suspecting another Immortal might be responsible (like another Immortal that shows up in public trying to get people killed). If Voltaire hadn't framed Pandora, the emotions in that argument might not have peaked as far (or at least as quickly) as they did, and Adrian might have said something or asked the right question and revealed Voltaire's plot.

Pandora EXPLAINED the Abraham case. If Adrian wouldn't assume she continued in same way, he might be willing to excuse that.

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3 hours ago, Drasvin said:

That said, a simpler possibility is that Lord Tedd became the ruler of his world the "old-fashioned" way.

As far as I can recall, we have no evidence Lord Tedd actually rules his world. All we know is that General Shade Tail, Nioi, and the Goo all call him "Lord" or "Master", and they all live or at least hang out in a fairly large building or facility that gives the impression of being a fortress or villain's lair. Shade Tale's title of "General" does suggest he is part of some sort of military, but we don't know for sure that military is under Lord Tedd's command, and even if it is that doesn't necessarily mean they have control over much if any territory. Lord Tedd could be a minor warlord, or plotting conquest without having started in on it, or he could just be an "ordinary" citizen who just to happens to be "friends" with a general and likes to send demon nuclei to attack alternate universes.

Heck, even if he is in an official position of power, military force isn't the only "old-fashioned" way; he could have been elected to his position (or if his nation isn't a democracy or a dictatorship, gone through whatever the appropriate legal means of gaining positions of power is in that system). Granted his age might be an issue with this, but different worlds can be at different points in time, and I could see Lord Tedd being in his mid or even late 20s.

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5 hours ago, partner555 said:

He was always on Arthur's radar. Pandora said that Edward has been using full disclosure to protect Tedd and friends from even bigger government scrutiny. That being said, the protection afforded by the full disclosure thing might be lost.

He may have said full disclosure, but we know that he didn't trust anyone where he worked with knowledge of the CMD when Will and Gil brought it to him.  It's quite likely that he didn't fully disclose what Tedd was doing with that.  The question then becomes how much the lack of disclosure has carried on -- did he tell them everything about the watches, or did they evolve from earlier secrets too closely to be able to come up with a viable alternate explanation?  It's also clear that he didn't report Tedd's frequent gender-swapping, as Arthur seems to have heard nothing of it.  Whether Edward was embarassed or he was respecting Tedd's privacy, it would be difficult to report everything Tedd has done with the TFG or the watches without mentioning the thing Tedd seems to focus on the most.

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11 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

He may have said full disclosure, but we know that he didn't trust anyone where he worked with knowledge of the CMD when Will and Gil brought it to him.  It's quite likely that he didn't fully disclose what Tedd was doing with that.  The question then becomes how much the lack of disclosure has carried on -- did he tell them everything about the watches, or did they evolve from earlier secrets too closely to be able to come up with a viable alternate explanation?  It's also clear that he didn't report Tedd's frequent gender-swapping, as Arthur seems to have heard nothing of it.  Whether Edward was embarassed or he was respecting Tedd's privacy, it would be difficult to report everything Tedd has done with the TFG or the watches without mentioning the thing Tedd seems to focus on the most.

It's also possible Arthur didn't read the reports where the watches and what they do were disclosed.

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19 minutes ago, partner555 said:

It's also possible Arthur didn't read the reports where the watches and what they do were disclosed.

Well Edward was in charge of the paranormal division at the time, he'd likely have been filing the reports for himself, they're in a cabinet at the office buried among other files and Arthur probably hasn't gotten around to reading through them to the point where it's very tempting to turn this into an HHGTTG reference. ;)

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3 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Well Edward was in charge of the paranormal division at the time, he'd likely have been filing the reports for himself, they're in a cabinet at the office buried among other files and Arthur probably hasn't gotten around to reading through them to the point where it's very tempting to turn this into an HHGTTG reference. ;)

Edward was Kicked Upstairs and replaced by Arthur in between Sister 2 and Bringing Silly Back. The watches weren't introduced until afterwards. If Edward filed the reports, then it was while Arthur was in charge.

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So I didn't even notice in the commentary:

Quote

The "why magic changed" refers to the overexposure of magic and people being on the verge of figuring out how to make it commonplace. It is not in reference to magic asking seers for their perspective.

In other words, if magic did change, and if magic was considering changing again in a few months, there could potentially be around a thousand seers present for that second consultation (hey, a new record!) The second purpose would not have been automatically revealed to them earlier.

It's not until you get to a third potential change within a single generation that there's a potential "every seer who's used magic knows by default" conundrum.

So yeah, Magic changes this time around, every Seer gets notified about it, if one or a number of them refuse to keep it secret and spreads knowledge of the new system around enough to make the WoM call another meeting, there's going to be quite a crowd. How the heck would the WoM go about handling that?

Then in the event Magic changes the system again, all the Seers would still know and could still spread the knowledge but then the next meeting would likely be empty and magic wouldn't get any new perspective, go with the default and change, and basically wash, rinse, repeat.

The last system change was probably 800-1200 years ago. there might have been 100 seers tops with 1 eligible, they would have been spread out enough and communicating with others being as slow as it was, there wouldn't have been much issue. Times are much different now with over 1000 Seers plus the internet making communicating across the globe almost instant. It would be very hard for this to just die out.

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1 minute ago, Scotty said:

So I didn't even notice in the commentary:

So yeah, Magic changes this time around, every Seer gets notified about it, if one or a number of them refuse to keep it secret and spreads knowledge of the new system around enough to make the WoM call another meeting, there's going to be quite a crowd. How the heck would the WoM go about handling that?

Then in the event Magic changes the system again, all the Seers would still know and could still spread the knowledge but then the next meeting would likely be empty and magic wouldn't get any new perspective, go with the default and change, and basically wash, rinse, repeat.

The last system change was probably 800-1200 years ago. there might have been 100 seers tops with 1 eligible, they would have been spread out enough and communicating with others being as slow as it was, there wouldn't have been much issue. Times are much different now with over 1000 Seers plus the internet making communicating across the globe almost instant. It would be very hard for this to just die out.

Magic could realise the futility of keeping secrets on its own.

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1 hour ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Do any of us know why we are here?

I have no idea why the rest of you are here, but I do know that my purpose in existence is to be an objectionable blowhard of an old hack.

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6 hours ago, partner555 said:

Magic could realise the futility of keeping secrets on its own.

Does Magic actually care about anything besides itself? As in, if humanity as a whole goes extinct, would it consider that a great loss, or simply another event in the weave? It said itself, it's completely alien to mortals, and mortals are essentially incomprehensible to it. The three were chosen based on questionable criteria, and it didn't seem to consider things like cause/effect. Sure, it has a "flair for the dramatic", but an asteroid making the world go up in flames is also "dramatic", and apparently it really doesn't give two cents about entire civilizations going down in blood and fire. It also considers 8 billion people "a bit crowded" and not of concern. It gets an adult, an emotional teen and a biased kid to decide merely IF a major change should occur, without regard to HOW magic should change, or basically anything involving stuff like "consequence" or "morality".

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3 minutes ago, wanderingmagus said:

Does Magic actually care about anything besides itself? As in, if humanity as a whole goes extinct, would it consider that a great loss, or simply another event in the weave? It said itself, it's completely alien to mortals, and mortals are essentially incomprehensible to it. The three were chosen based on questionable criteria, and it didn't seem to consider things like cause/effect. Sure, it has a "flair for the dramatic", but an asteroid making the world go up in flames is also "dramatic", and apparently it really doesn't give two cents about entire civilizations going down in blood and fire. It also considers 8 billion people "a bit crowded" and not of concern. It gets an adult, an emotional teen and a biased kid to decide merely IF a major change should occur, without regard to HOW magic should change, or basically anything involving stuff like "consequence" or "morality".

If there are no humans, there goes a source of drama.

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1 hour ago, partner555 said:

If there are no humans, there goes a source of drama.

You still have the other side of the world, though, which is full of magic. Would Magic consider the extinction of this side of the world any great loss, so long as the other side remains?

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10 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Do any of us know why we are here?

 

I'm here to kick tails and chew bubblegum - and I'm all out of tails to kick. :p

(Seriously, though, I think we all get to choose what our purpose or purposes in life are. Mine include learning as much as I can, and entertaining others with my stories and art.)

3 hours ago, wanderingmagus said:

Does Magic actually care about anything besides itself? As in, if humanity as a whole goes extinct, would it consider that a great loss, or simply another event in the weave? It said itself, it's completely alien to mortals, and mortals are essentially incomprehensible to it. The three were chosen based on questionable criteria, and it didn't seem to consider things like cause/effect. Sure, it has a "flair for the dramatic", but an asteroid making the world go up in flames is also "dramatic", and apparently it really doesn't give two cents about entire civilizations going down in blood and fire. It also considers 8 billion people "a bit crowded" and not of concern. It gets an adult, an emotional teen and a biased kid to decide merely IF a major change should occur, without regard to HOW magic should change, or basically anything involving stuff like "consequence" or "morality".

I believe the "Will of Magic" would more properly be named "The Will of the Magic of Humans of this Side of this World". I also have a theory that it is a gestalt being created by the combined magics of all the beings it affects. The way I see it the Will of Magic in question would probably cease to exist without humans (it definitely would if my theory is correct).

Of course, that doesn't mean it cares about anything besides itself - it just means that caring about itself also requires ensuring the continued survival of the human race in this (side of the) world. 

Edited by ChronosCat
Posted before I finished.

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