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      Welcome!   03/05/2016

      Welcome, everyone, to the new 910CMX Community Forums. I'm still working on getting them running, so things may change.  If you're a 910 Comic creator and need your forum recreated, let me know and I'll get on it right away.  I'll do my best to make this new place as fun as the last one!
partner555

Story Monday April 2 2018

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4 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Thing is Tedd can only see the effect of magus as it's being used, he was looking at Elliot when he first touched the diamond and was pretty quick to explain what had happened so he certainly saw what the diamond did (and could very well reproduce it now), though not fast enough to keep Ellen from believing she was going to die in less than a month. I don't think he would know exactly what Ellen was in terms of if she was a man trapped as a woman or if becoming a man again would be bad for her though, it feels like he just took Grace's word for it because Grace is smart and why would she lie about something like that (unless Ellen asked her to lie about it for the purpose of her second life reveal plan).

Ellen ran away with the car right after she was created, leaving Elliot and Tedd to find their own way back to Moperville from about a three hour drive away--by a car, not a horse-and-wagon or even an anachronistic stagecoach with a series of stations to provide fresh teams.  Tedd sent word to Grace soon after he and Elliot were released, but Grace didn't see it until a day later. And Tedd didn't take Grace's word; he found Abraham's journal at the facility and that's how he figured out Ellen wasn't going to vanish after thirty days or when Elliot died. Ellen didn't find out until she and Nanase were already trapped by the goo.

And the moral of this story, boys and girls, is always check your messages last thing and first thing.

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1 minute ago, Tom Sewell said:

Ellen ran away with the car right after she was created, leaving Elliot and Tedd to find their own way back to Moperville from about a three hour drive away--by a car, not a horse-and-wagon or even an anachronistic stagecoach with a series of stations to provide fresh teams.  Tedd sent word to Grace soon after he and Elliot were released, but Grace didn't see it until a day later. And Tedd didn't take Grace's word; he found Abraham's journal at the facility and that's how he figured out Ellen wasn't going to vanish after thirty days or when Elliot died. Ellen didn't find out until she and Nanase were already trapped by the goo.

And the moral of this story, boys and girls, is always check your messages last thing and first thing.

The "Tedd took Grace's word for it" was in reference to Grace stating that Ellen was technically already transformed and that being zapped would be bad for her. There was nothing in Abrahams notes that would support that being transformed "again" would be bad.

 

9 minutes ago, Aura Guardian said:

He got chased off soon after the party started by les immortales.

The party hadn't started yet, only Elliot and Ellen had arrived at that point, Sarah, Susan, Justin and Nanase weren't there yet.

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Right now, I think, in a way, I have more feelings of anger aimed at Magus than I do at KFImmortal.

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14 minutes ago, Scotty said:

The "Tedd took Grace's word for it" was in reference to Grace stating that Ellen was technically already transformed and that being zapped would be bad for her. There was nothing in Abrahams notes that would support that being transformed "again" would be bad.

Then why were you bringing up reference points from Sister I?

Before we go on arguing "bad" or "not bad", perhaps we should pause and consider these facts which are in canon:

  • Only Ellen has ever transformed Ellen (The Dewitchery Diamond doesn't count because it created Ellen.)
  • No one else has ever tried to transform Ellen.
  • Ellen has never transformed herself into a man.

So, we don't know if anyone or anything besides Ellen herself can transform her gender or anything else about Ellen. The only indication I can remember that Ellen has any residual maleness is when she celebrated being "still one of the guys!" after Nanase asked Susan for a word in private in Night OutIt would be a surprise now for Ellen to reveal that she has tried to become male, although I don't see that as earthshaking. Curiosity is one thing that distinguishes Ellen from Elliot, and Ellen has had a good reason to check out if she can change her own gender ever since Nanase told her she wanted to have kids someday.

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Just now, Tom Sewell said:

Then why were you bringing up reference points from Sister I?

Because Magus believes that Ellen was railroaded into remaining female after her creation, and Grace telling Tedd that Ellen shouldn't be zapped for the party can be interpreted as continued railroading.

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26 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Because Magus believes that Ellen was railroaded into remaining female after her creation, and Grace telling Tedd that Ellen shouldn't be zapped for the party can be interpreted as continued railroading.

Why would Magus know that Grace told Tedd anything? I know it's possible, but this suggests that Magus was especially interested in Tedd and/or Grace. Has Magus ever said "Grace". Has Magus mentioned Tedd before explaining things to Ashley? Pandora had to tell Magus to watch Ellen in Sister II, and that doesn't speak well for Magus' smarts because he knew Ellen was necessary for his resurrection.  Suddenly Magus has big concerns about Ellen, and decides the most important thing is that she has the wrong gender? While he's not checking to see if Ellen is really as "all right" as he says?And not wondering why Sirleck didn't possess him while he was down? My cookies are on this being an all-Magus screwup, and I'll be disappointed if Dan doesn't justify this latest plot twist and soon.

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3 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

Why would Magus know that Grace told Tedd anything? I know it's possible, but this suggests that Magus was especially interested in Tedd and/or Grace. Has Magus ever said "Grace". Has Magus mentioned Tedd before explaining things to Ashley? Pandora had to tell Magus to watch Ellen in Sister II, and that doesn't speak well for Magus' smarts because he knew Ellen was necessary for his resurrection.  Suddenly Magus has big concerns about Ellen, and decides the most important thing is that she has the wrong gender? While he's not checking to see if Ellen is really as "all right" as he says?And not wondering why Sirleck didn't possess him while he was down? My cookies are on this being an all-Magus screwup, and I'll be disappointed if Dan doesn't justify this latest plot twist and soon.

Because Magus knew about Ellen's second life dreams, but if he didn't overhear Ellen telling Elliot about them (because Helena and Demetrius would be there), then he overheard Ellen telling Grace about them, and it would be likely that he might have been there to overhear Grace talking to Tedd about the plans for the birthday and Grace would have been "and everyone would switch sexes, except for Ellen because it might be bad for her to switch".

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Does Magus not know about Ellen gaining a lifetime of memories in the alternate reality thing with Aoki?

Also, if Elliot's first comment in the next comic isn't. "Has it occurred to you that you should ASK Ellen what she wants before you do anything? Your sense of justice does not override the wishes of the person you wish to "help" I'll be very unhappy."

 

OTOH, it would be funny if Ellen "must" be female and the attempt to transform her causes Magus to become female. (Exiern-style for those who know that comic.)

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13 minutes ago, jmucchiello said:

Does Magus not know about Ellen gaining a lifetime of memories in the alternate reality thing with Aoki?

I don't thing an "Aoki" was involved in the alternate reality thing. Think "Nioi", "Kaoli/Kaori", Archie, and Second Life Tedd. And yes, Magus knows about the Second life; he's thinking about it while he tries to get Ellen to zap Elliot in Grace's Birthday Party. (credit to Scotty for nudging me into finally looking that up.

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16 hours ago, partner555 said:

Okay, Magus has valid points, but I disagree with his conclusion. He should be asking MainUniverse!Ellen about what she wants rather than assume things.

He might've been right for first week, maybe even until the second life. People change and Ellen did a LOT of changing.

15 hours ago, Scotty said:

Yeah Elliot was initially perturbed about being female, but since then he's grown to enjoy and even love it. He still considers himself male by default but he's really just "meh, it doesn't bother me either way", Ellen could very well be the same way, though preferring to be female by default.

This should be the ultimate argument. Sure, Elliot were willing to travel a hundred miles to became male faster ... on the other hand, he was too lazy to spend night outside city to get rid of energy buildups few months later.

3 hours ago, Drachefly said:

"... Plus, I've grown." He says, as he turns into Cheerleadra.

... yes.

7 hours ago, ChronosCat said:
14 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

So Magus throws a magic tantrum, and Tedd just fixes everything in the morning?

Well, Tedd can fix a physical transformation - but (assuming Magus actually uses a permanent-sex-change spell) since Elliot and Ellen don't know about Tedd's wand, until they have a chance to talk with her they'll think Ellen is stuck with her base form being male. That could be somewhat traumatic for her, particularly considering how being female is part of the foundation of the life she spent so much effort building for herself; even if she consoles herself with the fact that she has access to a number of ways of changing back to her original form temporarily, it'll be the cause for some introspection.

Yes. And Elliot definitely couldn't point out the wands existence to Magus because he doesn't know about it.

5 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

And returning about the "wisdom" of Ellen "Magus" Dunkel and Elliot "Wierdness Magnet" Dunkel stopping the action for even more argument, things that are possibly more urgent:

  • Their in a facility designed to lure in and trap intruders
  • Ellen "Recently Possessed by an Aberration" Dunkel should probably get more attention now than being argued over.
  • Quite possibly dangerous magical thingies all around them
  • No one is watching the car. Maybe the reason the guard's car is missing is that instead of sneaking into the building, someone stole his or her car.
  • Fnord

The problem is that Magus plans to leave the facility in different direction than Ellen. He doesn't want to escape with them and later go away, he plans to go away NOW.

 

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4 hours ago, mlooney said:

Right now, I think, in a way, I have more feelings of anger aimed at Magus than I do at KFImmortal.

At this point I believe that distinguishing between them is somewhat akin to, as the esteemed Dr. Johnson put it, "establishing precedence between a flea and a louse."

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21 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

At this point I believe that distinguishing between them is somewhat akin to, as the esteemed Dr. Johnson put it, "establishing precedence between a flea and a louse."

I've fallen behind the curve here. I'm in a dialog with Scotty right now. Who is KFImmortal?

25 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

The problem is that Magus plans to leave the facility in different direction than Ellen. He doesn't want to escape with them and later go away, he plans to go away NOW.

So Magus wants to go away NOW. Where? Back to his own universe that needs him so desperately? He can do that? Well, he got to the Moperverse, only that wasn't exactly his idea, was it? His plan is to "fix" Ellen and then split? Well, that does sound like Nioi after the nose beep.

Hmm, maybe he should have checked for some ruby slippers in one of those crates first.

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11 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

I've fallen behind the curve here. I'm in a dialog with Scotty right now. Who is KFImmortal?

"Kentucky Fried Immortal" was one of many nicknames for Voltaire, based on his resemblance to Colonel Sanders, the mascot of fast food chain Kentucky Fried Chicken.

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16 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:
53 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

The problem is that Magus plans to leave the facility in different direction than Ellen. He doesn't want to escape with them and later go away, he plans to go away NOW.

So Magus wants to go away NOW. Where? Back to his own universe that needs him so desperately? He can do that? Well, he got to the Moperverse, only that wasn't exactly his idea, was it? His plan is to "fix" Ellen and then split? Well, that does sound like Nioi after the nose beep.

We don't know where (or WHY) yet, but he obviously is in hurry and Dan hinted that in commentary as well.

17 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

Hmm, maybe he should have checked for some ruby slippers in one of those crates first.

I'm not sure I would risk it without manual. There are also less useful and more dangerous red shoes which could easily be mistaken for those ... especially considering the ruby slippers were originally silver.

 

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1 hour ago, The Old Hack said:

At this point I believe that distinguishing between them is somewhat akin to, as the esteemed Dr. Johnson put it, "establishing precedence between a flea and a louse."

I'm reserving judgement--this boat has flown so far off the tracks I expected that I want to see where it parks before I calculate the orbit.

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As for Magus' worldview (and many in our world could be accused of having the notion that one must be a certain gender to perform certain jobs as well, and no, I do not believe Dan to be one to hold this point of view, but as the father to two daughters, I feel I must let myself rant a bit at a fictional character to let off some steam generated by the idea of how many things I must try to explain to my daughters as to why it's going to be harder for them):

Let us leave aside the ability for magic to level the playing field with regards to any perceived physical differences that may exist on the average.  Let us leave aside the fact that if you consider that men may have an advantage in upper body strength (are we going to be wrestling dragons?) then you must consider that some think woman have advantages in other areas of physicality (those lovely Soviet female snipers of WWII that had such a reputation among the Nazis).  Let us look at history and start a list with but a few counterexamples to how you must be a man to be a warrior (and there are so many more):

Ng Mui.  She is said to have been a master variously of the Shaolin martial arts, the Wudang martial arts, and Yuejiaquan, the family style of Yue Fei. She is also credited as the founder of the martial arts Wǔ Méi Pài (Ng Mui style), Wing Chun, Dragon style, White Crane, and Five-Pattern Hung Kuen.
Lozen.  She was a famous warrior and prophet of the Chihenne Chiricahua Apache. She was also the sister of an important chief called Victorio who described her importance during the battles: “Lozen is my right hand … strong as a man, braver than most, and cunning in strategy. Lozen is a shield to her people.”  She also fought alongside Geronimo in the last campaign of the Apache Wars.
Nzinga of Ndongo and Matamba.  She valiantly fought and held off Portuguese control of present-day Angola for over thirty years during the early 17th century.

Finally, even if we buy Magus' argument as valid, it still must always be our Ellen's decision.  Magus Ellen needs to take a chill pill. 

:P

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I am so very tired of people who try to impose their views on others in real life. I read webcomics primarily as an escape from the troubles of real life. Magus is really harshing my vibe right now, and it would take an awful lot to redeem him for me. 

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Upon consideration: Magus has incomplete information, but enough of part of it but not enough of the other part to conclude that other people have imposed their views on Ellen. I don't blame his desire to set his perceived wrongs right (restricted to the desire), and ... well, people with misleading information cannot make the right choices except by chance. That no one asked Ellen at the start (ie, trying to figure a way to change Ellen if she desired) is not to anyone's credit.

 

I await information on Magus's time constraints and why he thinks he doesn't have the time to wait for her to wake up and talk, like he should be doing. (But I can't hate him. Real shame the cultures clash in the exact worst way, but I don't blame persons for repeating wrongs when they have never been shown right - just the society for being that way.)

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18 hours ago, Scotty said:

Magus isn't evil, but he clearly isn't thinking straight, he's making assumptions that Ellen being the person she is now was his fault despite all the good stuff that Ellen's done. It was his actions that created Ellen and by his logic, even though Ellen shouldn't exist at all, killing her isn't the answer but her creation was still flawed and he feels obligated to fix that. As Dan's said though, Magus is being rushed into jumping to conclusion not only by his emotions that have piled up for the past 3 years (he had been stuck in limbo for nearly 2 years prior to Ellen's creation), and he's probably also rushed for time, maybe he's expecting Abraham to show up at any moment? Or maybe just expecting the guards to show up? I dunno.

A lot of real-world people have parents who aren't evil, and are even well-meaning, who try to change who their children are. Does the lack of ill intent justify sending someone through so-called conversion therapy? Just because you brought another person into the world doesn't mean you have ownership of that person's identity. I'm probably not the only one for whom this turn of events hits a bit close to home (my best friend is dead because of this crap).

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2 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

"Kentucky Fried Immortal" was one of many nicknames for Voltaire, based on his resemblance to Colonel Sanders, the mascot of fast food chain Kentucky Fried Chicken.

Yes.  That is who and/or what I meant.

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59 minutes ago, Aura Guardian said:

I don't blame persons for repeating wrongs when they have never been shown right - just the society for being that way

"Society is to blame" is an overused and abused defense.

The defendant's background obviously has some influence on their criminal actions.

But criminal actions are still criminal.  Whether or not the defendant didn't know the actions were criminal, or thought the actions were justifiable, doesn't change the fact that they were criminal actions.

After the defendant is convicted of the criminal actions, background is a valid consideration when determining the degree of punishment and method of rehabilitation.  But that comes after acknowledging that the defendant's actions were criminal.

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I never said I condone their actions. (By "repeating wrongs" I meant as in words and saying the beliefs.) Of course they need to be stopped. Just that my hatred is reserved for the society, for screwing people up int the first place. I hate the root cause, not the (hopefully) treatable symptom.

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