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Scotty

story
Story, Wednesday July 12, 2017

49 posts in this topic

21 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:
2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

She's protecting people just fine in France

If Noriko is protecting people just fine in France, how come Helen and Demetrius recruited Susan and Nanase?

Well ... Jerry DID said that there are people in France which would be able to help ... but it's true that we don't know if she's in France. Tedd thinks she's in Europe but even that may not be true.

The point was that she didn't gave up fighting with monsters. She gave up her family, or at least one of them.

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12 hours ago, hkmaly said:

However, this works nicely - maybe even MORE nicely - even if Tedd doesn't know it consciously - either because of that subconscious level or just because it's what EDWARD thinks is happening.

I'm pretty sure it's what Edward thinks is happening.  I'm pretty sure Tedd can't think about this stuff at all.  They certainly don't view Edward as having nuanced views, and we know that's wrong.

Children under a certain age presume that bad things are their fault.  (eight or so, and it has something to do with theory of mind.)  Also note that Nanase's memories of first meeting Tedd -- their maternal first cousin who is the same age to the year -- are post-Noriko, if Nanase first met Tedd when Tedd wasn't talking.  (Nanase canonically thought Tedd was mute.  That's not a view Nanase could have formed if they'd known Tedd from infancy.)

That's really weird. (It's less weird if the Verres have not always lived in Moperville, but everything we've got indicates that they have.)  That implies there's a big something-or-other from Noriko's side of the family over marrying Edward.  (If Noriko did marry Edward.  "Have a kid with" and "marry" aren't the same.)  What kept there from being any contact with the maternal relatives until Ted was... eight? nine?  (I don't think it prevents Tedd from having issues about Nanase being exemplary; it might make the source more indirect.)

We just found out that all magic users are descended from immortals.  The family name is "Kitsune"; it doesn't seem at all unlikely there's an immortal back there that the family knows about, does it?  So perhaps Noriko defied all sorts of family tradition to take up with Edward and have Tedd and the justification -- greater magical power -- failed (for social purposes at the time; we're finding out that it didn't, but Noriko doesn't know that) when Tedd didn't appear to have any magical ability.

It'd be really interesting to find out what Edward and Mrs. Kitsune think happened, wouldn't it?  Because we're obviously missing at least one important thing -- what Noriko thought they were doing -- and the general theme of incompetent parents doesn't make me think it's only one thing.

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18 hours ago, ProfessorTomoe said:

That's the one hole in my theory. Has Tedd ever seen pictures of Noriko? We, the bunnies, have only been given one shot at her, and it was a shadowy shot at that (someone please supply link, thank you). We have no way of knowing if Tedd knows what Noriko looks like. If he doesn't, the conjecture stands as probable.

Wait a second - yes we do! Not-Tengu said Nanase is the spitting image of her aunt! And given how Tedd looks with short hair when Nanase has been nearby... Yikes. I think think Edward should come out and tell Tedd if that's the real reason, though.

It makes me wonder whether Edward has difficulty separating his work life from his home life. "Tell him, he's your son" vs. "Don't tell him, he doesn't work for the government and without magic he never will (or something)"? Rather interesting that the topic of his mother is avoided so much; did Tedd ask all kinds of questions about his mom when he was younger and we're just not privy to the asnwers?

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You know, it just occurred to me that it doesn't really matter whether or not Tedd's ever seen Noriko. He wouldn't identify with her anyway when he transforms to f!Tedd. F!Tedd would still identify with f!Tedd, plain and simple. It would be others (e.g., his Father, Sarah(?)) who would make the identification with other people (e.g., Noriko, Nanase).

In short, regardless of what Tedd thinks he looks like when he's f!Tedd (even based on those he's seen), he might look way too much like Noriko for Edward's comfort, hence all of Edward's statements.

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23 minutes ago, ProfessorTomoe said:

You know, it just occurred to me that it doesn't really matter whether or not Tedd's ever seen Noriko. He wouldn't identify with her anyway when he transforms to f!Tedd. F!Tedd would still identify with f!Tedd, plain and simple. It would be others (e.g., his Father, Sarah(?)) who would make the identification with other people (e.g., Noriko, Nanase).

In short, regardless of what Tedd thinks he looks like when he's f!Tedd (even based on those he's seen), he might look way too much like Noriko for Edward's comfort, hence all of Edward's statements.

Tedd was old enough to talk when Noriko left for good and old enough to understand she wasn't coming back when she did..  He knows what Noriko looks like.

Tedd may have blocked conscious memory of his mother similar to how Susan has blocked the memory of what her her father and his lover looked like.

That may be why Tedd used to call Nanase "ugly cousin".  It would be a way of unconsciously distancing himself from how much she resembles Noriko.
 

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Here's an interesting thought, what if Pandora's whole "Egg and Hawk" routine nearly 3 years ago was an attempt to get Edward talking to Adrian again? Even if Edward didn't know that she is Adrian's mother, if Adrian was the one that taught Edward about Immortals, she might have hoped he'd go to Adrian for help, get talking, and maybe reconcile things, but so far it hasn't worked out like that and with Pandora's desire to not predict the outcomes, she would have been just recklessly doing things without realizing (until now) that she's only been making things worse.

Though I'm thinking that probably by the end of this arc, Edward will be talking to Adrian again, whether he forgives Adrian or it ends the same way that Justin and Melissa ended is to be determined.

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2 hours ago, Scotty said:

Here's an interesting thought, what if Pandora's whole "Egg and Hawk" routine nearly 3 years ago was an attempt to get Edward talking to Adrian again?

That is interesting. Edward has got to have seen Pandora in her base form (if you can call it that) at some point, hasn't he? Therefore, she would've had to have used a disguised form that Edward hadn't seen before to set the whole affair in motion. However, it's still possible that the whole Adrian bit would have been brought up as a by-product of the failure of her magic dam, and could be unrelated to the "Egg and Hawk" scenario.

I could also not know what the fark I'm talking about. I've been out in the Texas sun today. Too much dehydration. Fnord.

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6 minutes ago, ProfessorTomoe said:

I've been out in the Texas sun today. Too much dehydration. Fnord.

You should consider driving a Cnadillac instead of a Fnord. It has a much better AC.

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6 hours ago, Them, from There said:

That's really weird. (It's less weird if the Verres have not always lived in Moperville, but everything we've got indicates that they have.)  That implies there's a big something-or-other from Noriko's side of the family over marrying Edward.  (If Noriko did marry Edward.  "Have a kid with" and "marry" aren't the same.)  What kept there from being any contact with the maternal relatives until Ted was... eight? nine?  (I don't think it prevents Tedd from having issues about Nanase being exemplary; it might make the source more indirect.)

1) Noriko DID marry Edward, because that's prerequisite of them to divorce. Although we can't be sure if it happened before or after having Tedd, of course.

2) Why would Tedd need to be eight? Would make more sense if he was younger. Also, note that Nanase is similar age and would be unlikely to remember Tedd being infant ; it's just that her first memories of Tedd are after divorce with Tedd appearing mute.

6 hours ago, Them, from There said:

We just found out that all magic users are descended from immortals.  The family name is "Kitsune"; it doesn't seem at all unlikely there's an immortal back there that the family knows about, does it?

Considering we just found out, it can't be THAT much known. Although maybe its part of family legends noone really believes ...

6 hours ago, Kazzellin said:

It makes me wonder whether Edward has difficulty separating his work life from his home life. "Tell him, he's your son" vs. "Don't tell him, he doesn't work for the government and without magic he never will (or something)"? Rather interesting that the topic of his mother is avoided so much; did Tedd ask all kinds of questions about his mom when he was younger and we're just not privy to the asnwers?

Quite the contrary, Tedd barely talked at all after his mom left. He is uncomfortable with the topic himself, so not much questions.

Also, Edward obviously told Tedd all sort of top secret stuff, even let him play with Uryuom technology - and possibly is already hoping Tedd would eventually work for government doing the same, ie. researching magitech.

6 minutes ago, ProfessorTomoe said:
2 hours ago, Scotty said:

Here's an interesting thought, what if Pandora's whole "Egg and Hawk" routine nearly 3 years ago was an attempt to get Edward talking to Adrian again?

That is interesting. Edward has got to have seen Pandora in her base form (if you can call it that) at some point, hasn't he?

No he didn't had to. Adrian could easily get away with pretending that his mother reset long ago, as she should.

But interesting thought indeed. I don't think it was only purpose for catching Magus, but it MIGHT've been purpose of the warning ...

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26 minutes ago, ProfessorTomoe said:

That is interesting. Edward has got to have seen Pandora in her base form (if you can call it that) at some point, hasn't he? Therefore, she would've had to have used a disguised form that Edward hadn't seen before to set the whole affair in motion. However, it's still possible that the whole Adrian bit would have been brought up as a by-product of the failure of her magic dam, and could be unrelated to the "Egg and Hawk" scenario.

I can't say for certain if Edward had ever been properly introduced to Pandora, it's possible, but also possible that he thinks that Adrian's mother has long since reset herself. It seems like the 200 year guildline would be known to Edward and if he knew that Pandora was well past her reset, he would likely be more worried about the potential damage that could be caused. And with everything that's been happening, at least up until Voltaire's appearance and admission to being involved in some of it, Edward should have been considering that Pandora be responsible for it and calling for Adrian to figure out how to get her to stop.

17 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

2) Why would Tedd need to be eight? Would make more sense if he was younger. Also, note that Nanase is similar age and would be unlikely to remember Tedd being infant ; it's just that her first memories of Tedd are after divorce with Tedd appearing mute.

I think Tedd was around 3-4 years old when Noriko left if the last time Adrian saw his mother before her visit to the hospital was when Noriko left. The fact that Pandora tells Tedd he should have had her support suggests that Pandora saw the whole deal unfold, but kept her distance for whatever reason.

17 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

But interesting thought indeed. I don't think it was only purpose for catching Magus, but it MIGHT've been purpose of the warning ...

I still think Pandora didn't cause Magus to be in his current situation, but saw him as an opportunity.

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4 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I still think Pandora didn't cause Magus to be in his current situation, but saw him as an opportunity.

Then who did?

Pandora alerted Ed Verres' group to something coming down the line and was well aware of when Magus entered the world of EGS.

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2 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:
8 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I still think Pandora didn't cause Magus to be in his current situation, but saw him as an opportunity.

Then who did?

Pandora alerted Ed Verres' group to something coming down the line and was well aware of when Magus entered the world of EGS.

That alert was AFTER Magus already entered the world.

And who? Could be anyone, but if Terra is Tedd's alternate and Magus Elliot's alternate, most likely culprit is Voltaire's alternate.

9 minutes ago, Scotty said:
23 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

2) Why would Tedd need to be eight? Would make more sense if he was younger. Also, note that Nanase is similar age and would be unlikely to remember Tedd being infant ; it's just that her first memories of Tedd are after divorce with Tedd appearing mute.

I think Tedd was around 3-4 years old when Noriko left if the last time Adrian saw his mother before her visit to the hospital was when Noriko left. The fact that Pandora tells Tedd he should have had her support suggests that Pandora saw the whole deal unfold, but kept her distance for whatever reason.

It's definitely the best time estimate we have and doesn't seem to contraindicate anything else. I mean, it didn't happened the same moment, but likely around that time - it probably took some time between starts of arguing and Noriko physically leaving, if for nothing else because of how long legal divorce takes.

 

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2 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

Then who did?

Pandora alerted Ed Verres' group to something coming down the line and was well aware of when Magus entered the world of EGS.

She probably felt Magus' entrance just like Edward's group detected the disturbance. It would have happened in the Moperville area so probably not that difficult.

As for who caused Magus to be relocated? Only Dan knows. I don't think Pandora would have ripped people from other dimensions to serve as entertainment or even as an attempt to get Edward to reconcile with Adrian. Voltaire might though considering he played Tara into almost killing Elliot so he definitely is a candidate for someone who would meddle with people from other dimensions and such. The other possibility is that the cause was from within Magus' home universe, a rival that wanted Magus out of the way, maybe an Immortal/Ancient/Fairy from there being mischievous or something? I dunno.

3 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

most likely culprit is Voltaire's alternate.

Hmm...So I theorized that in Lord Tedd's universe, Elliot died and General Shade Tail is exploiting Lord Tedd's Seer abilities to fulfill the prophecy of uniting all Seyunolus.

What if in Magus' universe alternate Voltaire had Magus removed and making Terra believe she killed him, thus traumatizing her greatly and making it so that Voltaire can easily manipulate her into using her Seer abilities for his goals. Though it's really hard to say if Terra was a Seer or if she turned out to be a regular Wizard (the duel itself suggests Wizard), Magic definitely works different in that universe but maybe there's something else special about Terra that an alternate Voltaire would want to exploit.

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45 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I don't think Pandora would have ripped people from other dimensions to serve as entertainment or even as an attempt to get Edward to reconcile with Adrian. Voltaire might though considering he played Tara into almost killing Elliot so he definitely is a candidate for someone who would meddle with people from other dimensions and such.

Note that Tara was already in our half of universe when Voltaire contacted her - and that's still OUR universe. Well, EGS universe I mean. I suspect even immortals can't visit other universes easily. I don't think they would become bored if they could.

45 minutes ago, Scotty said:

The other possibility is that the cause was from within Magus' home universe, a rival that wanted Magus out of the way, maybe an Immortal/Ancient/Fairy from there being mischievous or something?

I would definitely assume cause from within Magus' home universe.

45 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Though it's really hard to say if Terra was a Seer or if she turned out to be a regular Wizard (the duel itself suggests Wizard), Magic definitely works different in that universe

IF magic works different there (which we can't be sure about), the Seers may work differently as well. Seer IS type of wizard ... the "not having spells of their own" part might not be valid in that universe or those are not Terra's spells.

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16 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Voltaire's alternate.

And who says the Immortals have alternates? They could be able to flip to the other side of the coin with no troubles. t least, someone like Pandora probably could. :/

15 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I don't think they would become bored if they could.

Just because you're in a different universe that doesn't mean events won't unfold the same way - and therefore be predictable. *shrug* We won't know for sure unless Dan confirms it somehow, though.

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2 hours ago, Kazzellin said:

And who says the Immortals have alternates? They could be able to flip to the other side of the coin with no troubles. t least, someone like Pandora probably could. :/

Voltaire did seem conversant with Ancient law as well as Immortal law. Certainly if Griffins can travel from one side to the other, so should Immortals and Ancients.

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3 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:
6 hours ago, Kazzellin said:

And who says the Immortals have alternates? They could be able to flip to the other side of the coin with no troubles. t least, someone like Pandora probably could. :/

Voltaire did seem conversant with Ancient law as well as Immortal law. Certainly if Griffins can travel from one side to the other, so should Immortals and Ancients.

Yeah, but we're talking Alternates in terms of Magus and Terra's or Lord Tedd's universes which are completely separate coins.

It'd be like if you had a stack of coins, each coin has 2 sides so maybe there are alternates of Tara and Andrea elsewhere, the stack itself would represent the fact that they all share the same space and time but no coin is identical.

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2 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Yeah, but we're talking Alternates in terms of Magus and Terra's or Lord Tedd's universes which are completely separate coins.

It'd be like if you had a stack of coins, each coin has 2 sides so maybe there are alternates of Tara and Andrea elsewhere, the stack itself would represent the fact that they all share the same space and time but no coin is identical.

But the context is the question "who made Magus a specter and sent him to EGS-Prime?"  Alternates to EGS prime villains have no obvious motivation (we can speculate motivations all day.  Dan hasn't remotely explored this terrain).  If magus could be sent to EGS Prime, then it stands to reason that an Immortal from EGS-Prime would be capable of going out and getting him without the need for adding still more characters (and close-to-identical duplicate characters at that) to the story.

I think we can agree that we have enough characters as it is.

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7 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

But the context is the question "who made Magus a specter and sent him to EGS-Prime?"  Alternates to EGS prime villains have no obvious motivation (we can speculate motivations all day.  Dan hasn't remotely explored this terrain).  If magus could be sent to EGS Prime, then it stands to reason that an Immortal from EGS-Prime would be capable of going out and getting him without the need for adding still more characters (and close-to-identical duplicate characters at that) to the story.

I think we can agree that we have enough characters as it is.

EGS Prime doesn't have to have been specifically chosen as Magus' destination, it might have been one of those "I don't care where he ends up, as long as he's gone" situations.

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37 minutes ago, Scotty said:

EGS Prime doesn't have to have been specifically chosen as Magus' destination, it might have been one of those "I don't care where he ends up, as long as he's gone" situations.

That's *a* way to bet but not the way *I'd* bet.  I'm pretty sure he was shanghaied, not ejected.

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9 hours ago, Kazzellin said:
On 7/14/2017 at 2:10 AM, hkmaly said:

I don't think they would become bored if they could.

Just because you're in a different universe that doesn't mean events won't unfold the same way - and therefore be predictable. *shrug* We won't know for sure unless Dan confirms it somehow, though.

Obviously depends on how many universes there are. If it's like ten, it can still be boring, but if the number is infinite and immortals would be able to travel between all of them ...

6 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:
9 hours ago, Kazzellin said:

And who says the Immortals have alternates? They could be able to flip to the other side of the coin with no troubles. t least, someone like Pandora probably could. :/

Voltaire did seem conversant with Ancient law as well as Immortal law. Certainly if Griffins can travel from one side to the other, so should Immortals and Ancients.

It would be logical assumption, but there are possibilities - like, it may be forbidden by immortal law, or just very risky unless you are fluent in laws of both halves.

Also, just because he knows Ancient law doesn't mean he actually was there. His informations may be from book.

In any case, irrelevant to discussion of other universes, although it's true that if Nioi was able to travel between universes, you can again assume it can't be so hard based on that.

2 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:
2 hours ago, Scotty said:
3 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

But the context is the question "who made Magus a specter and sent him to EGS-Prime?"  Alternates to EGS prime villains have no obvious motivation (we can speculate motivations all day.  Dan hasn't remotely explored this terrain).  If magus could be sent to EGS Prime, then it stands to reason that an Immortal from EGS-Prime would be capable of going out and getting him without the need for adding still more characters (and close-to-identical duplicate characters at that) to the story.

I think we can agree that we have enough characters as it is.

EGS Prime doesn't have to have been specifically chosen as Magus' destination, it might have been one of those "I don't care where he ends up, as long as he's gone" situations.

That's *a* way to bet but not the way *I'd* bet.  I'm pretty sure he was shanghaied, not ejected.

That's your bet. Both are possible, of course - but while we can just speculate about motivations of other universe characters, we have pretty good idea about what motivates "our" Pandora and it doesn't seem to me she did it.

And, well, we have enough characters mainly because Dan used to be less careful about introducing new characters back then. It's possible that similarly to Lord Tedd, Terra and the one responsible for ejecting Magus from his universe will return in some future-but-already-planned story, sometime around 2200.

Just because we have character capable of shapeshifting doesn't mean any new person must be this character. After all, if it would always be that way, there will be no surprise when Dan would actually WANT to make plot twist based on someone new being revealed to be existing character.

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2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

...in some future-but-already-planned story, sometime around 2200.

Are you suggesting that the current plot threads could be resolved in less than two centuries?

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5 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Are you suggesting that the current plot threads could be resolved in less than two centuries?

You would be the expert. How long a time did those comics on the walls of the pyramids span?

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On 7/15/2017 at 5:22 AM, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:
On 7/15/2017 at 3:12 AM, hkmaly said:

...in some future-but-already-planned story, sometime around 2200.

Are you suggesting that the current plot threads could be resolved in less than two centuries?

No. I was speaking about just that single thread, and not about it being resolved but continued ...

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