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NP Friday August 12, 2016

37 posts in this topic

Larrry & Rich's stated wishes and potential make a lot of sense considering everything we've seen so far.

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I am torn as which way Pandora should go with Larry's request.

She obviously didn't do it, otherwise Larry would have acted a little different during the card game from hell.  Or if she did do it, he didn't go out into the world.

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Sooo, here's something. Based on both Pandora's thoughts in the third panel and Dan's commentary, I'm guessing Rich and Larry will say something that makes Pandora reconsider giving them marks. But, I think the mark that Larry might have ended up with, eventually was given to Tedd. Or maybe Pandora did give Larry the mark and for some reason never got a chance to use it before the card tournament, Pandora saw how Larry acted towards Tedd and was offended so yanked the mark and gave it to Tedd who unexpected used it moments later.

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6 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Sooo, here's something. Based on both Pandora's thoughts in the third panel and Dan's commentary, I'm guessing Rich and Larry will say something that makes Pandora reconsider giving them marks. But, I think the mark that Larry might have ended up with, eventually was given to Tedd. Or maybe Pandora did give Larry the mark and for some reason never got a chance to use it before the card tournament, Pandora saw how Larry acted towards Tedd and was offended so yanked the mark and gave it to Tedd who unexpected used it moments later.

Can she even remove the mark? That's depowering, not empowering.

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Literally impossible.
Even for magic.

Sending specific information to a point in the past is a type of time travel.  So too is detecting information before it actually exists,

If Time Travel really is the one thing that Magic can not do in the EGS universe, then all forms of fortune telling, sooth saying, divination, augury, weather forecasting, and political polling would be guesswork at best and outright hoaxes at worst.

I'm glad we don't need to rely on guesswork and hoaxes for information in our world.

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I dunno, Pandora could justify it as "he never cast the spell so was he really empowered?", As Pandora basically says in the story comic "It's not breaking the laws if I don't believe it's breaking the laws."

12 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Literally impossible.
Even for magic.

Sending specific information to a point in the past is a type of time travel.  So too is detecting information before it actually exists,

If Time Travel really is the one thing that Magic can not do in the EGS universe, then all forms of fortune telling, sooth saying, divination, augury, weather forecasting, and political polling would be guesswork at best and outright hoaxes at worst.

I'm glad we don't need to rely on guesswork and hoaxes for information in our world.

She did say that boosting his power of deduction would be useful, being able to deduce things accurately could be enough to say you can predict the future. Like if you see a person walk into a crowded room, and make their way towards the other side, you can then look at the movements of the other people and say there's a chance that the person will bump into a specific person in the crowd before they reach their destination.

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44 minutes ago, partner555 said:
51 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Sooo, here's something. Based on both Pandora's thoughts in the third panel and Dan's commentary, I'm guessing Rich and Larry will say something that makes Pandora reconsider giving them marks. But, I think the mark that Larry might have ended up with, eventually was given to Tedd. Or maybe Pandora did give Larry the mark and for some reason never got a chance to use it before the card tournament, Pandora saw how Larry acted towards Tedd and was offended so yanked the mark and gave it to Tedd who unexpected used it moments later.

Can she even remove the mark? That's depowering, not empowering.

I think it will be impossible even if it WOULDN'T be against immortal rules, which it is. Marking sounds as irreversible process, just like awakening.

1 hour ago, mlooney said:

I am torn as which way Pandora should go with Larry's request.

She obviously didn't do it, otherwise Larry would have acted a little different during the card game from hell.

Also, RICH would acted little different if he knew Larry did got such spell.

51 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Sooo, here's something. Based on both Pandora's thoughts in the third panel and Dan's commentary, I'm guessing Rich and Larry will say something that makes Pandora reconsider giving them marks.

... what can they say so offensive it would surprise hundred years old immortal and make her forget she wanted to mark Larry?

27 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

I'm glad we don't need to rely on guesswork and hoaxes for information in our world.

Who is this "we" who don't need to rely on guesswork and hoaxes? Last time I was watching news, it was all hoaxes, except weather prediction, which was guesswork.

(Obviously, you only need a wormhole to get some information to the past ... but as far as I know, noone build any near Earth yet.)

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Actually there might be a way to travel through time in canon. Grace was once (briefly) summoned by a genie. And that same genie, along with his/her master, have since gone back in time.

As for Larry, Pandora is just thinking he's the first person whose desire matches what he says it is. Hey, Larry is honest. Maybe there's hope for him. Especially if Rich gets eaten by a fire goo griffin.

Edited by Tom Sewell
Wrong guy eaten by fire goo griffin.

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2 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

I'm glad we don't need to rely on guesswork and hoaxes for information in our world.

It's rarely a good idea to rely on hoaxes for your information.

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8 hours ago, Scotty said:

She did say that boosting his power of deduction would be useful, being able to deduce things accurately could be enough to say you can predict the future. Like if you see a person walk into a crowded room, and make their way towards the other side, you can then look at the movements of the other people and say there's a chance that the person will bump into a specific person in the crowd before they reach their destination.

 That would apply to ordinary events, but deliberately randomized events such as lottery drawings can be predicted only statistically. If sending information back in time is physically impossible, then the only way to ensure a specific winner is to rig the lottery results.

Anyway, Larry is showing some intelligence here, and it's good that he's thinking in terms of learning something rather than just using his hypothetical access to a hot girl body to feel up or gaze at female flesh (self or others). Rather than going into the women's locker room or the similar stereotyped stuff, he wants to get inside girls' heads. Also note that Larry once again (or rather, once before, since this is set two and a half months earlier) voices that he is not at all adverse to the idea of MTF transformations, whereas Rich's reaction is to ring the homosexuality alarm.

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4 hours ago, ijuin said:

he wants to get inside girls' heads

So telepathy? Hey, isn't this basically what Pandora is doing now?

Also, irony. Larry will become interested in Sarah, but Sarah will make a date with Sam. Larry will somewhat nobly rationalize that the "better man won" not knowing that Sam is actually a girl. Gee, Larry kind of get's doubly doubly hosed here, don't he? I guess The Shive is not with him.

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3 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

So telepathy? Hey, isn't this basically what Pandora is doing now?

Also, irony. Larry will become interested in Sarah, but Sarah will make a date with Sam. Larry will somewhat nobly rationalize that the "better man won" not knowing that Sam is actually a girl. Gee, Larry kind of get's doubly doubly hosed here, don't he? I guess The Shive is not with him.

This is still before the card game tournament. It took a telling of from Tensaided for him to fully realise the error of his ways. Appearances set after that point will likely show that his situation has improved.

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Of course, this begs the question (or is it raises the question?) about, if Pandora is getting bored because she can predict with almost full accuracy future events, to the point of actively looking for things to go against her predictions...

how come she hasn't come addicted to lottery and gambling?

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it's worth noting that Larry's plan isn't necessarily as flawed as it seems. Magic certainly can transform someone into a girl, and Elliott's Secret Identity Forms prove that transformation can include the mind, so the only actual reason Larry's plan is flawed is that there is no inherent "male way of thinking" and "female way of thinking"- he could be transformed into Grace, and think like Grace ( which raises interesting philosophical questions about if that is functionally death or not- if someone is completely different, should they be considered the same person? ( legally speaking, they are- death is when the brain irreversibly stops working- but are they really the same person? In EGS, I would say yes, since magic is reversible, even if only by using a spell exactly countering the other(in other words, if someone was permanently transformed, permanently transforming them into their original form again.) in the real world? it's debateable.)) but there's no inherent difference between how Larry and Female Larry would think. ( witness Elliott and Ellen. she thought more-or-less exactly like Elliott, barring a joke about men not asking for directions, until she made a conscious choice to act differently, and nurture caused divergence as time went on.)

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That brings up the whole Nature vs. Nurture debate. Most of the Natural differences between males and females are ones that relate to the reproductive/childraising roles or are otherwise direct consequences of anatomy, whereas nearly anything that can vary between cultures (e.g. mode of dress, body language, speaking style, being assertive vs. aggressive vs. submissive) are learned behaviors.

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for that matter, in EGS, straight gender transformations- that is, the equivalent of an FV1 or MV1 transformation- don't actually even change Nature, so it would make even less difference. ( FV1, afaik, just plain changes your gender- it won't, for instance, give a man breasts. The exception is the sexual organs, but that's programmed into the transformation- make the target a girl and give them female sexual organs- since it's designed to be fertile after a certain amount of time. ( personally, I figure it's less a case of the transformation being programmed to make the target infertile temporarily, as much as the transformation not including an egg being immediately released- more-or-less, you are transformed to a girl just after finishing her period. For the male one, i'm guessing the transformation doesn't include sperm- so again, you need to wait for sperm production to increase your sperm levels to where fertility is reasonably likely. It doesn't take that long- IIRC, it takes something like 3 days- but it would be a reason why the transformation would be infertile temporarily.

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3 hours ago, sstabeler said:

but there's no inherent difference between how Larry and Female Larry would think.

Body chemistry influences the mind, and men and women have different body chemistries. A transformation as thorough as the TF gun certainly would influence thinking. The question is how much? I would love to do the experiment.

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6 hours ago, exterminator said:

Of course, this begs the question (or is it raises the question?) about, if Pandora is getting bored because she can predict with almost full accuracy future events, to the point of actively looking for things to go against her predictions...

how come she hasn't come addicted to lottery and gambling?

1) Raises the question is the "correct" version, however modern usage of "begs the question" is way to common to stamp out.  Sort of like "y'all" in the southern US states, Texas, and Oklahoma.

2) Well, there is the technical problems of she doesn't exist on government paper, so getting the seed money to start would be tricky, and really hard if she won even a modest amount.  The IRS wants their chunk, and the have agents more or less at the payout windows in Vegas.  Not having a SSN or Tax ID Number would Raise Flags and Questions.  I'm not saying this would stop her, just add more roadblocks than she might feel are worthwhile.  Plus it's human money, what the hell does she need that for?

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When you have phenomenal cosmic POWAAA, the only solution to resolve your woes is the slot machines.

 

To be honest, I've been thinking about Pandora's question: 'power for a day', and my first thought goes to mass necromancy of all dead past and present. 

 

Preferably not to create zombies, but to temporarily revive members of the human species who are still of use to humanity's endeavours.

 

This would cause mass chaos, sure, and logistical issues with organ donors, but I feel the net gains to humanity by turning the planet into a one-day necropolis will give the world perspective and wisdom.

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15 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Larry will somewhat nobly rationalize that the "better man won" not knowing that Sam is actually a girl.

...um.

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On 08/13/2016 at 3:24 AM, Tom Sewell said:

Actually there might be a way to travel through time in canon. Grace was once (briefly) summoned by a genie. And that same genie, along with his/her master, have since gone back in time.

That's NOT part of EGS canon. Maybe it was sketchbook's Grace.

On 08/13/2016 at 3:02 AM, Scotty said:

She did say that boosting his power of deduction would be useful, being able to deduce things accurately could be enough to say you can predict the future. Like if you see a person walk into a crowded room, and make their way towards the other side, you can then look at the movements of the other people and say there's a chance that the person will bump into a specific person in the crowd before they reach their destination.

Hari Seldon though the same. Still, he created Second Foundation for case something unexpected will happen, and yes, it proved useful, because someone unexpected DID happen.

13 hours ago, exterminator said:

how come she hasn't come addicted to lottery and gambling?

Because the results of lottery are BORING. Sure, you can't predict which numbers will win, but they will always be just numbers.

12 hours ago, sstabeler said:

but there's no inherent difference between how Larry and Female Larry would think. ( witness Elliott and Ellen. she thought more-or-less exactly like Elliott, barring a joke about men not asking for directions, until she made a conscious choice to act differently, and nurture caused divergence as time went on.)

Note how Susan though as a man. There WERE differences. Although not as many as she expected.

11 hours ago, ijuin said:

Most of the Natural differences between males and females are ones that relate to the reproductive/childraising roles or are otherwise direct consequences of anatomy, whereas nearly anything that can vary between cultures (e.g. mode of dress, body language, speaking style, being assertive vs. aggressive vs. submissive) are learned behaviors.

There are more things related to reproduction that it seems on first look. For example, the best reproduction strategy for men is to have lot of partners, because they can. Women can't get more than one child in 9 months no matter how many partners they have, so their best strategy instead involves spending more time to get the best partner.

4 hours ago, RainbowWizard said:

To be honest, I've been thinking about Pandora's question: 'power for a day'

You DID notice that Pandora was NOT honest and plans to give the power to those people for whole life anyway? Also, while Raise dead is probably possible at least somehow, I think it would be even harder for novice to cast than Sarah's spell.

 

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