• Announcements

    • Robin

      Welcome!   03/05/2016

      Welcome, everyone, to the new 910CMX Community Forums. I'm still working on getting them running, so things may change.  If you're a 910 Comic creator and need your forum recreated, let me know and I'll get on it right away.  I'll do my best to make this new place as fun as the last one!

Recommended Posts

www.egscomics.com/comic/sister3-288

Actually, not a bad plan.

Arthur wants to test Tedd's abilities.

What better way than to have Tedd examine something that was not behaving correctly but still should be relatively low powered?

And since Tedd appeared female when they met most recently, Arthur has no problem identifying Tedd thusly.  Will Elliot or Ellen tell Arthur that it is not always that simple with Tedd?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, guess we're not going to find out who Arthur's daughter is.

Interesting to note that Arthur's using female pronouns for Tedd still, understandable since that was the form Tedd was in during the meeting and Tedd didn't explain being genderfluid, I wonder if Elliot will explain it, otherwise the next time Arthur sees Tedd and he's male might be confusing for him. I mean, it shouldn't be confusing what with gender changing spells and technology existing, but Arthur had been certain that Tedd was a boy before the meeting and was confused when he saw her.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually had to go back to figure out how Ashley knew that.  Beneath my medial temporal lobe is a pickled seahorse on a toothpick.

Anyway, the fact that he's used the word "her" four times in such a short spiel makes me think he's gauging their reaction.  (Kinda not cool, man.)  "For her" feels especially conscious, being omissible entirely.  Elliot and Ellen probably wouldn't blink normally, but the latter did say "he" back in the bit I had to look up, and that probably caught Arthur's attention, and Ashley may or may not have caught it as well (after all, it's not uncommon in the real world to screw up the pronouns of cis people without any subtext).  If she did catch it, which Doylistically she probably did, with the second panel being foreshadowing, she may well be indecorous enough to ask.

So we're not following up on the daughter right away.  Maybe it was just a throwaway line, and it's no one we know?  I might've thought so if it weren't someone we knew so well.  No, I still think either it's Susan's mother, or Noriko was a cuckoo's egg.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, not a bad plan.

Arthur wants to test Tedd's abilities.

What better way than to have Tedd examine something that was not behaving correctly but still should be relatively low powered?

And since Tedd appeared female when they met most recently, Arthur has no problem identifying Tedd thusly.  Will Elliot or Ellen tell Arthur that it is not always that simple with Tedd?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, WR...S said:

I actually had to go back to figure out how Ashley knew that.  Beneath my medial temporal lobe is a pickled seahorse on a toothpick

Yeah it was when Ellen told them what Nanase said about the search party and such, Tedd apparently told at least Grace and Nanase about the meeting with the WoM and convince it to make magic public.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Ok, guess we're not going to find out who Arthur's daughter is.

Which suggest she's NOT someone we know. (At least not yet. I mean, Carol also wasn't originally related to anyone we know ...)

4 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Interesting to note that Arthur's using female pronouns for Tedd still, understandable since that was the form Tedd was in during the meeting and Tedd didn't explain being genderfluid, I wonder if Elliot will explain it

She said she's complicated. I think that's pretty clear description of genderfluid :)

Also, totally predicted that, although I though it would be EDWARD who will hear Arthur talk about Tedd as female first. Can still be if Elliot won't explain it.

7 minutes ago, Scotty said:

otherwise the next time Arthur sees Tedd and he's male might be confusing for him. I mean, it shouldn't be confusing what with gender changing spells and technology existing, but Arthur had been certain that Tedd was a boy before the meeting and was confused when he saw her.

... WILL Arthur ever see Tedd as male?

9 minutes ago, WR...S said:

Anyway, the fact that he's used the word "her" four times in such a short spiel makes me think he's gauging their reaction.  (Kinda not cool, man.)  "For her" feels especially conscious, being omissible entirely.  Elliot and Ellen probably wouldn't blink normally, but the latter did say "he" back in the bit I had to look up, and that probably caught Arthur's attention, and Ashley may or may not have caught it as well (after all, it's not uncommon in the real world to screw up the pronouns of cis people without any subtext).  If she did catch it, which Doylistically she probably did, with the second panel being foreshadowing, she may well be indecorous enough to ask.

Wait what? Oh right Ellen totally did. And I though Arthur was referring to the search party when he mentioned being flabbergasted normally ...

12 minutes ago, WR...S said:

or Noriko was a cuckoo's egg.

Noriko, as someone who CLEARLY continues with family tradition, is VERY unlikely to be cuckoo's egg. Although, technically, she might get that tradition from her mother and still have Arthur as father.

12 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Actually, not a bad plan.

Arthur wants to test Tedd's abilities.

What better way than to have Tedd examine something that was not behaving correctly but still should be relatively low powered?

Not necessary. As I already said, in current situation wand capable of teaching magic could be very useful, IF it will be reliable. So Arthur could be genuinely interested about what will Tedd tell him about Kevin, as his own understanding is obviously insufficient (considering he was surprised Kevin is sentient).

Remember, Arthur might not like it but Tedd IS the best researcher he has, because despite relatively low level of experience, him being seer give him enormous advantage.

And it's not like real world research working like video games, where you select what you will research and wait for competition (and even in video games, you may have dependencies). Giving Tedd several relatively easy magic mysteries to work on can ultimately help him solve the main problem of raising people's magic resistance.

And, obviously, there is high risk of him doing it anyway just because Elliot is his friend and Ashley Elliot's girlfriend, and making it part of his official task list will make him happier and more focused.

10 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

Well, I guess Ashley gets to meet Grace pretty soon.

And get chance to better know Sarah. Elliot's second ex.

9 minutes ago, partner555 said:

I wonder if Arthur will explain the whole Seer thing or leave that to Tedd.

He just sort of did. It's not like they need full description, AND Arthur might not know everything himself. He might've dropped that it's called being Seer, but otherwise he said everything relevant.

 

PS: I recommend Textarea Cache or similar extension to everyone, and will do it again if thread merging will make my post almost lost (only recovered thanks to that extension) again.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, it didn't hit me at the time, but how did Charlotte of all people get roped in before Sarah, Susan, or Justin?  Especially since Justin works with Grace...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, WR...S said:

Actually, it didn't hit me at the time, but how did Charlotte of all people get roped in before Sarah, Susan, or Justin?  Especially since Justin works with Grace...

Because Nanase asked Charlotte about the report Ellen told her they will be investigating.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, WR...S said:

Actually, it didn't hit me at the time, but how did Charlotte of all people get roped in before Sarah, Susan, or Justin?  Especially since Justin works with Grace...

 

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Because Nanase asked Charlotte about the report Ellen told her they will be investigating.

Justin probably had to stay at work.  If he's in charge that night, he has the authority to let Grace leave, but he can't exactly leave the store with no one working, especially not if there's a card tournament going on, it being a Friday night.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

Justin probably had to stay at work.  If he's in charge that night, he has the authority to let Grace leave, but he can't exactly leave the store with no one working, especially not if there's a card tournament going on, it being a Friday night.

And he certainly realizes that Grace will be much more useful in searching for Ellen, not speaking about searching for TEDD. He would be just as useless as Charlotte, but Charlotte have more free time :) ... ok, actually Charlotte might have more experience with searching than even Ellen and Nanase, despite not being able to fly, and might be able to coordinate help of other forum visitors ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Justin probably had to stay at work.  If he's in charge that night, he has the authority to let Grace leave, but he can't exactly leave the store with no one working, especially not if there's a card tournament going on, it being a Friday night.

Stray thought: Could Lucy have been at such a card tournament while Diane was meeting Susan at the mall? Lucy fits the roleplaying profile as well as Catalina does, and I've always thought she might have been one of the nerd girls Catalina joined when she went to Salty Crackers with Susan during Spring Break in Hammerchlorians.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, hkmaly said:

She said she's complicated. I think that's pretty clear description of genderfluid :)

Tedd didn't know what being genderfluid was until recently, Edward apparently doesn't know either, I think Tedd's been lucky that Elliot and the others have at least understood why Tedd switches back and forth even if they didn't know the term yet.

1 minute ago, hkmaly said:

... WILL Arthur ever see Tedd as male?

It depends on if Tedd's feeling male at the time. I almost said that it also depends on if Edward is home at the time as well but Tedd was recently seen being assertive about being female in front of him (even if she didn't feel like being female at the time), so let's say 50/50 chance.

6 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Wait what? Oh right Ellen totally did. And I though Arthur was referring to the search party when he mentioned being flabbergasted normally ...

Yeah, it's apparent that Tedd had probably changed back to male before going out searching for Elliot, Ellen and Ashley.

Or Tedd was still female and Nanase never mentioned that. Can't really fault Ellen for using the wrong pronouns if she didn't know, right?

14 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Not necessary. As I already said, in current situation wand capable of teaching magic could be very useful, IF it will be reliable. So Arthur could be genuinely interested about what will Tedd tell him about Kevin, as his own understanding is obviously insufficient (considering he was surprised Kevin is sentient).

Do you think Arthur might be interested in the possibility of making more wands like Kevin? Even if it's not him that makes them how would he feel about someone making more?

18 minutes ago, hkmaly said:
30 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

Well, I guess Ashley gets to meet Grace pretty soon.

And get chance to better know Sarah. Elliot's second ex.

Dan's stated that Ashley and Sarah are probably going to be spending more time together, I mused that it'd be interesting if Ashley managed to learn Sarah's simulated time freeze spell and they were able to enter the same simulation together somehow.

But yeah, seems like Ashley's going to learn about Grace pretty soon too. That's gonna be fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Scotty said:

Ok, guess we're not going to find out who Arthur's daughter is.

Interesting to note that Arthur's using female pronouns for Tedd still, understandable since that was the form Tedd was in during the meeting and Tedd didn't explain being genderfluid, I wonder if Elliot will explain it, otherwise the next time Arthur sees Tedd and he's male might be confusing for him. I mean, it shouldn't be confusing what with gender changing spells and technology existing, but Arthur had been certain that Tedd was a boy before the meeting and was confused when he saw her.

Even if sex-swapping spells were widely available, aside from one or two experiments I suspect most people would stay one sex all the time. That magic has NOT been widely available to date, and there has been (still is) a widespread lack of awareness and understanding of gender as distinct from sex. So it's entirely plausible that, at least as far as he's aware, Arthur has never before encountered a trans or fluid magic-user.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

Can't really fault Ellen for using the wrong pronouns if she didn't know, right?

Elliot's and Ellen's default pronoun for Tedd is probably male, unless they are aware of immediately-relevant reason to use female.

Such reasons would include that the person they are talking to knows female!Tedd, and they are aware of that fact. They weren't aware that Arthur knew female!Tedd until he used female pronouns - assuming they noticed said pronouns.

(And of course if they are intentionally referring only to female!Tedd, or to a specific time when Tedd was female, or if Tedd is present and female, or...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:

Even if sex-swapping spells were widely available, aside from one or two experiments I suspect most people would stay one sex all the time. That magic has NOT been widely available to date, and there has been (still is) a widespread lack of awareness and understanding of gender as distinct from sex. So it's entirely plausible that, at least as far as he's aware, Arthur has never before encountered a trans or fluid magic-user.

Arthur was certain that Tedd was born male (as in Edward likely would have announced the birth of his son to fellow agents and his boss at the time, or Edwards profile would mention family), seeing Tedd female would be enough to imply to Arthur that Tedd would be trans and probably used magic or uryuom tech to change. Tedd might have been the first person Arthur encountered that would do this but he didn't push the matter after Tedd said it was complicated, he accepted what he saw and resolved to use the proper pronouns based on that information.

8 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:

Elliot's and Ellen's default pronoun for Tedd is probably male, unless they are aware of immediately-relevant reason to use female.

Such reasons would include that the person they are talking to knows female!Tedd, and they are aware of that fact. They weren't aware that Arthur knew female!Tedd until he used female pronouns - assuming they noticed said pronouns.

(And of course if they are intentionally referring only to female!Tedd, or to a specific time when Tedd was female, or if Tedd is present and female, or...)

Dan's stated before that Tedd would prefer people use pronouns based on the form he or she is currently in, so m!Tedd would not want people to use she/her and f!Tedd would not want he/him and using she/her for m!Tedd would annoy him because of all the times people like Tony called Tedd a girl while Tedd was male.

It's quite possible that Arthur would be referring to Tedd with female pronouns while Tedd is currently male, but Arthur wouldn't be aware of that and was probably judging Ellen's use of male pronouns for Tedd, even though Ellen might have heard it straight from Nanase that Tedd was male, or, at least Nanase would have implied that Tedd was male, I would certainly hope that Nanase was respecting pronoun usage when referring to Tedd.

Either way, Tedd's genderfluidity hasn't been explained to Arthur, so I'm giving him a pass for the moment, I don't think he'd insist on one set of pronouns after the fact considering he does seem to be respectful of these things.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

It's quite possible that Arthur would be referring to Tedd with female pronouns while Tedd is currently male, but Arthur wouldn't be aware of that and was probably judging Ellen's use of male pronouns for Tedd,

Or just didn't pick up on the use of male pronouns.

Now if Arthur says "Please clarify for me: is Tedd male or female?" and the answer is "it depends" or "it varies" or "yes"...

(or, even more confusing, "yes, usually"...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Don Edwards said:

Or just didn't pick up on the use of male pronouns.

Now if Arthur says "Please clarify for me: is Tedd male or female?" and the answer is "it depends" or "it varies" or "yes"...

(or, even more confusing, "yes, usually"...)

"Yes" I feel might be similar to saying "both" which wouldn't really be accurate since Tedd isn't male and female simultaneously, "depends" or "it varies" would be accurate since Tedd's form at a given moment would be driven by what his or her feelings are at the time.

I know it was implied by Grace that non-binary forms could be doable, whether or not Tedd would have any preference for them over male or female forms is uncertain, I'm not sure if that counts towards being genderfluid, I'm leaning towards no but I'm just guessing at this point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Stray thought: Could Lucy have been at such a card tournament while Diane was meeting Susan at the mall? Lucy fits the roleplaying profile as well as Catalina does, and I've always thought she might have been one of the nerd girls Catalina joined when she went to Salty Crackers with Susan during Spring Break in Hammerchlorians.

I do think she was one of the nerd girls Catalina joined, but I think she is not interested in Magical Gatherings. IF she would regularly play at those tournaments, Rich and Larry would likely have encounter with her already, and I suspect it would leave marks.

9 hours ago, Scotty said:
16 hours ago, hkmaly said:

She said she's complicated. I think that's pretty clear description of genderfluid :)

Tedd didn't know what being genderfluid was until recently, Edward apparently doesn't know either, I think Tedd's been lucky that Elliot and the others have at least understood why Tedd switches back and forth even if they didn't know the term yet.

Arthur might not know the term either and still get it.

9 hours ago, Scotty said:
16 hours ago, hkmaly said:

... WILL Arthur ever see Tedd as male?

It depends on if Tedd's feeling male at the time. I almost said that it also depends on if Edward is home at the time as well but Tedd was recently seen being assertive about being female in front of him (even if she didn't feel like being female at the time), so let's say 50/50 chance.

I would say lower, as Tedd is forced to remain male most time in school, which makes him more likely to be female outside school.

And the lab probably wouldn't be in his basement ... at least assuming Arthur really gives him lab and not just money to build one.

9 hours ago, Scotty said:
16 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Not necessary. As I already said, in current situation wand capable of teaching magic could be very useful, IF it will be reliable. So Arthur could be genuinely interested about what will Tedd tell him about Kevin, as his own understanding is obviously insufficient (considering he was surprised Kevin is sentient).

Do you think Arthur might be interested in the possibility of making more wands like Kevin? Even if it's not him that makes them how would he feel about someone making more?

... probably more like "can we make another wand according to original idea, talking but not sentient"?

9 hours ago, Scotty said:

Dan's stated that Ashley and Sarah are probably going to be spending more time together, I mused that it'd be interesting if Ashley managed to learn Sarah's simulated time freeze spell and they were able to enter the same simulation together somehow.

Interesting, but probably impossible. Would need some sort of synchronization between them ...

9 hours ago, Scotty said:

But yeah, seems like Ashley's going to learn about Grace pretty soon too. That's gonna be fun.

It would probably be more fun for Ashley than for us.

6 hours ago, Scotty said:
6 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

Even if sex-swapping spells were widely available, aside from one or two experiments I suspect most people would stay one sex all the time. That magic has NOT been widely available to date, and there has been (still is) a widespread lack of awareness and understanding of gender as distinct from sex. So it's entirely plausible that, at least as far as he's aware, Arthur has never before encountered a trans or fluid magic-user.

Arthur was certain that Tedd was born male (as in Edward likely would have announced the birth of his son to fellow agents and his boss at the time, or Edwards profile would mention family), seeing Tedd female would be enough to imply to Arthur that Tedd would be trans and probably used magic or uryuom tech to change. Tedd might have been the first person Arthur encountered that would do this but he didn't push the matter after Tedd said it was complicated, he accepted what he saw and resolved to use the proper pronouns based on that information.

Note that even without the experimental banned CMD, Uryuom choose sex as they want and Arthur is certainly aware of that. He is probably also aware that Tedd is living with greater chimera. But neither proves he ever knowingly met gender-fluid human ...

3 hours ago, Scotty said:
3 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

Now if Arthur says "Please clarify for me: is Tedd male or female?" and the answer is "it depends" or "it varies" or "yes"...

(or, even more confusing, "yes, usually"...)

"Yes" I feel might be similar to saying "both" which wouldn't really be accurate since Tedd isn't male and female simultaneously, "depends" or "it varies" would be accurate since Tedd's form at a given moment would be driven by what his or her feelings are at the time.

I know it was implied by Grace that non-binary forms could be doable, whether or not Tedd would have any preference for them over male or female forms is uncertain, I'm not sure if that counts towards being genderfluid, I'm leaning towards no but I'm just guessing at this point.

Where it was implied? I wasn't aware of any implication that they even just tried such forms.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, hkmaly said:

That actually DOES imply that she didn't tried that YET.

I wasn't saying that it's been done, just that it could be doable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Stray thought: Could Lucy have been at such a card tournament while Diane was meeting Susan at the mall? Lucy fits the roleplaying profile as well as Catalina does, and I've always thought she might have been one of the nerd girls Catalina joined when she went to Salty Crackers with Susan during Spring Break in Hammerchlorians.

I don't know, when Diane was eager to watch a movie because it had griffins in it, Lucy had a dismissive attitude, but I do concede that the avatar she used during her chat with Diane lends credence to your theory.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now