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Pharaoh RutinTutin

Story Wednesday January 23, 2019

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OK, this has got to make Sam think that Grace knows other people who were affected by Pandora, "and people who care about her" is pretty darned blatant especially since Grace had just said she'd never met Pandora herself. Either Sam's never made any connection that Sarah, Tedd and Grace are friends, or he's now wondering if they know Pandora.

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Once you pop, you cannot stop. Dang, it is hard to not miss Pandora.

5 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

Hurricane Grace is now a Category 2 emotional storm and will hit the coastline of Moperville in two hours. :danshiftyeyes:

Two hours? Nah, it would be two days of non-stop moping. :danshiftyeyes:

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I know that feel. When I'm writing characters, I sorta "rp" it out and sometimes the connections hit you like a ton of bricks and you start reacting physically before you can reel it in.

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11 hours ago, Scotty said:

OK, this has got to make Sam think that Grace knows other people who were affected by Pandora, "and people who care about her" is pretty darned blatant especially since Grace had just said she'd never met Pandora herself. Either Sam's never made any connection that Sarah, Tedd and Grace are friends, or he's now wondering if they know Pandora.

I would say that Sam can't be sure Grace knows specifically people MARKED by Pandora.

However, it's obvious she personally knows someone who knows Pandora, so if Sam noticed that Sarah, Tedd and Grace are friends they will be top suspects.

Also, this kind of "speaking well about someone and crying" IMHO suggests something happened to Pandora. Unless something happened to that person Grace knows who know Pandora, that would also explain it.

... also, I just realized: While in general it would make sense to tell either Sam or Sarah to talk about Pandora with each other, Sarah would definitely ALSO start crying when talking about Pandora.

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

I would say that Sam can't be sure Grace knows specifically people MARKED by Pandora.

However, it's obvious she personally knows someone who knows Pandora, so if Sam noticed that Sarah, Tedd and Grace are friends they will be top suspects.

Also, this kind of "speaking well about someone and crying" IMHO suggests something happened to Pandora. Unless something happened to that person Grace knows who know Pandora, that would also explain it.

... also, I just realized: While in general it would make sense to tell either Sam or Sarah to talk about Pandora with each other, Sarah would definitely ALSO start crying when talking about Pandora.

There's something else that makes me wonder if Sam could suspect that Tedd was marked, Sam thought that Tedd might also be trans, Sam also knows that Larry and Rich had thought he was Tedd. We don't know if he was ever in earshot of Rich and Larry when they were talking about Tedd being in a female form like Luke was, but if Sam did hear anything that would suggest that Tedd may have transformed during the card tournament, even if he blew it off as nonsense at the time, he'd likely rethink that once he found out he could transform himself.

Maybe it's just wishful thinking that Sam starts jumping to conclusions, then Grace wouldn't feel guilty about bringing Sam to Tedd. It wouldn't be the first time someones made conclusions that was accurate enough to say "ok, there's no point in trying to deny anything". And yeah Grace's internal dialog is referring to Sam finding out about Tedd's magic transformation stuff, that could include Tedd being marked and it doesn't mean that Grace would have to say anything about the TFG and watches, just that if Sam's already concluded that Tedd has a mark as well, then Grace can just keep to the subject of marks, and then let Tedd decide if Sam could be trusted to know about the rest.

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19 minutes ago, Scotty said:

There's something else that makes me wonder if Sam could suspect that Tedd was marked, Sam thought that Tedd might also be trans, Sam also knows that Larry and Rich had thought he was Tedd. We don't know if he was ever in earshot of Rich and Larry when they were talking about Tedd being in a female form like Luke was, but if Sam did hear anything that would suggest that Tedd may have transformed during the card tournament, even if he blew it off as nonsense at the time, he'd likely rethink that once he found out he could transform himself.

I don't think he hear any of that but in case he did good point.

20 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Maybe it's just wishful thinking that Sam starts jumping to conclusions, then Grace wouldn't feel guilty about bringing Sam to Tedd.

You missed one detail: The point of "accidentally" bringing him to Tedd was so Tedd could give him something to transform him to male. His mark spell makes this obsolete. There is no REASON to bring him to Tedd now. Well, except talking about physical gender not matching psychical one, but that doesn't require saying anything about transformations.

21 minutes ago, Scotty said:

It wouldn't be the first time someones made conclusions that was accurate enough to say "ok, there's no point in trying to deny anything".

Thanks to the stampede, Susan still managed to not tell her anything. Sure, between what Jerry and Pandora said to her and Susan and Adrian shown, there wasn't much more to tell, but still, she COULD remain vague about lot of stuff. Like, no need to confirm that Adrian is indeed a wizard and explaining what it means.

24 minutes ago, Scotty said:

And yeah Grace's internal dialog is referring to Sam finding out about Tedd's magic transformation stuff, that could include Tedd being marked and it doesn't mean that Grace would have to say anything about the TFG and watches, just that if Sam's already concluded that Tedd has a mark as well, then Grace can just keep to the subject of marks, and then let Tedd decide if Sam could be trusted to know about the rest.

... I'm not sure Tedd is the right person to decide if Sam could be trusted. For start, they should do some background checks on him.

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17 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

... I'm not sure Tedd is the right person to decide if Sam could be trusted. For start, they should do some background checks on him.

Too bad they don't know anyone who could arrange an FBI background check.

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3 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

You missed one detail: The point of "accidentally" bringing him to Tedd was so Tedd could give him something to transform him to male. His mark spell makes this obsolete. There is no REASON to bring him to Tedd now. Well, except talking about physical gender not matching psychical one, but that doesn't require saying anything about transformations.

My point was more that if Grace can get Sam to talk to Tedd about their marks and Pandora, then Sarah could easily be included since the 3 of them have being marked by Pandora in common, and the fact that Sarah knows what Tedd's mark is about, then Sam might feel more comfortable to telling Sarah.

17 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Thanks to the stampede, Susan still managed to not tell her anything. Sure, between what Jerry and Pandora said to her and Susan and Adrian shown, there wasn't much more to tell, but still, she COULD remain vague about lot of stuff. Like, no need to confirm that Adrian is indeed a wizard and explaining what it means.

The stampede had nothing to do with it, Susan had already said that they weren't in the best place to discuss it. But yeah Diane ended up learning more about Adrian later anyway, and certainly afterwards there's no long any point in keeping her in the dark about anything (except the existence of aliens that is, at least until that pyro-uryuom becomes relevant again)

23 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

... I'm not sure Tedd is the right person to decide if Sam could be trusted. For start, they should do some background checks on him.

If Edward sees Tedd associating with Sam in any way, he'll do a background check pretty quick....hmmm that would likely guarantee that Edward would find out that Sam is trans, and we'll see how he reacts and if it's negative, how would Tedd respond? Or maybe it's positive and it makes Tedd feel more comfortable with talking to Edward about his genderfluidity? Either way, Grace having Sam become friends with Tedd might be worth doing because it'd help get some sort of progression in that thread of the story.

Also, I can't help but think that if Edward is negative toward Tedd being genderfluid, the rest of the Main Eight are going to have some choice words with Edward.

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54 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:
1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

... I'm not sure Tedd is the right person to decide if Sam could be trusted. For start, they should do some background checks on him.

Too bad they don't know anyone who could arrange an FBI background check.

That was joke, right?

33 minutes ago, Scotty said:
1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

You missed one detail: The point of "accidentally" bringing him to Tedd was so Tedd could give him something to transform him to male. His mark spell makes this obsolete. There is no REASON to bring him to Tedd now. Well, except talking about physical gender not matching psychical one, but that doesn't require saying anything about transformations.

My point was more that if Grace can get Sam to talk to Tedd about their marks and Pandora, then Sarah could easily be included since the 3 of them have being marked by Pandora in common, and the fact that Sarah knows what Tedd's mark is about, then Sam might feel more comfortable to telling Sarah.

Yes, but my point was that it's not nearly as important as before.

34 minutes ago, Scotty said:
1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Thanks to the stampede, Susan still managed to not tell her anything. Sure, between what Jerry and Pandora said to her and Susan and Adrian shown, there wasn't much more to tell, but still, she COULD remain vague about lot of stuff. Like, no need to confirm that Adrian is indeed a wizard and explaining what it means.

The stampede had nothing to do with it, Susan had already said that they weren't in the best place to discuss it. But yeah Diane ended up learning more about Adrian later anyway, and certainly afterwards there's no long any point in keeping her in the dark about anything (except the existence of aliens that is, at least until that pyro-uryuom becomes relevant again)

It did provided some distraction.

And yes ... no point hiding anything about magic ... as a grandchild of immortal, it could be argued that NOT telling her is dangerous.

Meanwhile, aliens are still secret. Although hard to say how long they stay that way if she would include talking to Noah into getting to know her family.

40 minutes ago, Scotty said:
1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

... I'm not sure Tedd is the right person to decide if Sam could be trusted. For start, they should do some background checks on him.

If Edward sees Tedd associating with Sam in any way, he'll do a background check pretty quick...

... true. First, he would want to make sure Tedd is not in danger. Second, he was saying that they shouldn't widen the circle, but he KNOWS them.

43 minutes ago, Scotty said:

hmmm that would likely guarantee that Edward would find out that Sam is trans, and we'll see how he reacts and if it's negative, how would Tedd respond? Or maybe it's positive and it makes Tedd feel more comfortable with talking to Edward about his genderfluidity? Either way, Grace having Sam become friends with Tedd might be worth doing because it'd help get some sort of progression in that thread of the story.

... true, if it will be shown at all we will get some progress to that. Although ... Edward can do the background check but hide his reaction from Tedd.

45 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Also, I can't help but think that if Edward is negative toward Tedd being genderfluid, the rest of the Main Eight are going to have some choice words with Edward.

I'm not sure about that. I think they still think in terms of "we are children, those are parents". Maybe later.

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2 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Second, he was saying that they shouldn't widen the circle, but he KNOWS them.

He mentioned that to Justin over half a year (comic time) earlier, since then the circle has technically widened with the addition of Diane, Charlotte and now Ashley. I think Edward would rather it be a case of the gang finding someone who's already learned something about magic and such and bring them in to hopefully reduce the chance of any incidents, the alternative would be risky, heck they're taking risks with Luke.

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2 hours ago, Scotty said:
2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Second, he was saying that they shouldn't widen the circle, but he KNOWS them.

He mentioned that to Justin over half a year (comic time) earlier, since then the circle has technically widened with the addition of Diane, Charlotte and now Ashley.

Exactly my point. Charlotte specifically is quite risky, with her spooky forum. Luckily, they can blame not-Tengu ... or Agent Wolf. I'm pretty sure Charlotte heard everything about legendary monster hunter ...

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

I think Edward would rather it be a case of the gang finding someone who's already learned something about magic and such and bring them in to hopefully reduce the chance of any incidents, the alternative would be risky, heck they're taking risks with Luke.

I don't think anyone ASKED Edward. Although especially Luke with his power is someone who could be more risky WITHOUT main "eight" explaining them stuff ... except DGB likely have someone even better to explain stuff.

Wait. Maybe they don't. I mean, they SHOULD also have some therapists capable of handle cases like Grace, but apparently they don't, so ...

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

<omitted/>, they SHOULD also have some therapists capable of handle cases like Grace, but apparently they don't, so ...

Remember that therapists take some time to update about new events...thinking spy drones were watching people was still considered a symptom of paranoia long after the drone industry sales hit 100 thousand units per year. (Thinking all the drones are watching only you still does really indicate paranoia.)

About five to seven years after the reveal of magic, belief in magic would finally be removed from the symptom list....

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17 hours ago, Haylo said:
18 hours ago, hkmaly said:

<omitted/>, they SHOULD also have some therapists capable of handle cases like Grace, but apparently they don't, so ...

Remember that therapists take some time to update about new events...thinking spy drones were watching people was still considered a symptom of paranoia long after the drone industry sales hit 100 thousand units per year.

That's CIVILIAN therapists. I was saying that DGB should have special therapist with enough clearance to handle her case. Like, already knowing about Uryuoms and magic.

17 hours ago, Haylo said:

(Thinking all the drones are watching only you still does really indicate paranoia.)

Or big ego.

17 hours ago, Haylo said:

About five to seven years after the reveal of magic, belief in magic would finally be removed from the symptom list....

Susan is safe. Most therapists IMHO stops considering belief in magic as symptom after you materialize sword or hammer you couldn't possible fit in your clothes.

Grace, meanwhile, can transform to squirrel. Also hard to explain as being hallucination.

That said, I'm not sure those therapists would still be USEFUL after seeing something like this without knowing about it beforehand.

Sarah should wait for few years, yes, but she doesn't need therapist yet.

(Similarly, the drone case would be more believable if you managed to catch some and shown it to the therapist. Although he may still consider unbelievable it was flying.)

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Just now, hkmaly said:

Susan is safe. Most therapists IMHO stops considering belief in magic as symptom after you materialize sword or hammer you couldn't possible fit in your clothes.

Grace, meanwhile, can transform to squirrel. Also hard to explain as being hallucination.

Nanase during her burnout would have difficulty, Cranium had even pointed out (as a lie) that her parents would think she was delusional, or being corrupted by Ellen, if Nanase tried to tell them the truth about everything. Nowadays, I think the only thing holding Nanase back is the uncertainty of whether her mother already knows or not.

Elliot and Ellen can also provide proof, though I think Ellen zapping her therapist would be much more comical.

 

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:
2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Susan is safe. Most therapists IMHO stops considering belief in magic as symptom after you materialize sword or hammer you couldn't possible fit in your clothes.

Grace, meanwhile, can transform to squirrel. Also hard to explain as being hallucination.

Nanase during her burnout would have difficulty, Cranium had even pointed out (as a lie) that her parents would think she was delusional, or being corrupted by Ellen, if Nanase tried to tell them the truth about everything.

Yes. Who knows, her father MIGHT think she's delusional. And her mother might be able to pretend that convincingly.

Luckily, Nanase don't need therapist.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Nowadays, I think the only thing holding Nanase back is the uncertainty of whether her mother already knows or not.

I'm not sure she's as uncertain as she claims to be. Seems that the possibility that her mother already knows and pretends not to made her LESS willing to talk about it.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Elliot and Ellen can also provide proof, though I think Ellen zapping her therapist would be much more comical.

Obviously :)

"Doctor, everyone around me is changing into pretty girls!" ZAAAP "I don't know what to do! Oh, you too!"

Wait. If she would use FV5, I suspect I know where it would end.

 

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Obviously :)

"Doctor, everyone around me is changing into pretty girls!" ZAAAP "I don't know what to do! Oh, you too!"

Wait. If she would use FV5, I suspect I know where it would end.

 

I doubt Ellen would act like that.

I guess this is more of a what if hypothesis and not likely for Ellen to need a therapist now, but maybe back shortly after she was created. Dan did toy with the idea of having her go through depression (the bad sleeping habits, and the missing beer), he chose against it because he didn't like the tone, but if Ellen did need therapy to deal with the depression. If the therapist was having trouble believing her about magic, I can see her response being a cross between when she first zapped Tedd and when she demonstrated zapping herself.

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29 minutes ago, Scotty said:
2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Obviously :)

"Doctor, everyone around me is changing into pretty girls!" ZAAAP "I don't know what to do! Oh, you too!"

Wait. If she would use FV5, I suspect I know where it would end.

 

I doubt Ellen would act like that.

Me too. Also, I find hard to believe she's actually transforming random people on christmass. But both would definitely be funny.

29 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I guess this is more of a what if hypothesis and not likely for Ellen to need a therapist now, but maybe back shortly after she was created. Dan did toy with the idea of having her go through depression (the bad sleeping habits, and the missing beer), he chose against it because he didn't like the tone, but if Ellen did need therapy to deal with the depression. If the therapist was having trouble believing her about magic, I can see her response being a cross between when she first zapped Tedd and when she demonstrated zapping herself.

Yes. Although it's double what-if, because even if Dan would actually let her go through depression, it's not likely he would let her go to any therapist, based on the fact neither Grace nor Susan went.

Also, I suppose there wouldn't be problems with the therapist being too distracted to keep behaving professionally ... and if he would, well, then how could double-FV5 still be compatible with depression?

... yeah, I can see Ellen "curing" her depression with FV5 addiction. More likely than alcohol, because alcohol is not that great against depression based on what I heard.

Wait. Magic system based on giving people spell they want. It's likely that if she would be using FV5 for relaxation she would get some mind-bending form even better suited for that. Something like Elliot's party form, maybe.

 

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On 1/23/2019 at 11:33 PM, Haylo said:

Remember that therapists take some time to update about new events...thinking spy drones were watching people was still considered a symptom of paranoia long after the drone industry sales hit 100 thousand units per year. (Thinking all the drones are watching only you still does really indicate paranoia.)

About five to seven years after the reveal of magic, belief in magic would finally be removed from the symptom list....

Therapists in general, yes.

Therapists assigned to help the personnel of organizations specifically constructed to deal with magic, no.

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A government organization? Suck it up, soldier!

Seriously, given how little the US Federal government seems to want to pay for psychological care in general, I would bet that whoever is in charge of the budget would consider therapists to be a waste of resources. Somebody in the magical "dark" division goes postal? Just "disappear" them.

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14 hours ago, ijuin said:

Seriously, given how little the US Federal government seems to want to pay for psychological care in general, I would bet that whoever is in charge of the budget would consider therapists to be a waste of resources. Somebody in the magical "dark" division goes postal? Just "disappear" them.

If you (re)read the comic archive, you will notice that the government in EGS is MUCH nicer than in real US. Just note that they actually arranged winnings to give Dunkels money for Ellen. Sure, it was while Edward Verres was head of division, but obviously they either have better budget OR big slush funds AND don't do "disappearing" of people unless they had to. Despite how easy would be to disappear someone with magic.

... they generally seem to have enormous success in preventing someone from talking. That probably require lot of money given we never see them using hypnosis for this purpose.

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5 hours ago, hkmaly said:

If you (re)read the comic archive, you will notice that the government in EGS is MUCH nicer than in real US. Just note that they actually arranged winnings to give Dunkels money for Ellen. Sure, it was while Edward Verres was head of division, but obviously they either have better budget OR big slush funds AND don't do "disappearing" of people unless they had to. Despite how easy would be to disappear someone with magic.

I think it has to do with Edward having prevented so many apocalyptic scenarios that the government pretty much owes him, it's revealed recently by Arthur as the reason he allowed the fake Cheerleadra sighting.  I think if Edward asked for pineapple on pizza*, no one would question it.

*pineapple on pizza is delicious. I'll fight you if you disagree :D

 

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:
6 hours ago, hkmaly said:

If you (re)read the comic archive, you will notice that the government in EGS is MUCH nicer than in real US. Just note that they actually arranged winnings to give Dunkels money for Ellen. Sure, it was while Edward Verres was head of division, but obviously they either have better budget OR big slush funds AND don't do "disappearing" of people unless they had to. Despite how easy would be to disappear someone with magic.

I think it has to do with Edward having prevented so many apocalyptic scenarios that the government pretty much owes him, it's revealed recently by Arthur as the reason he allowed the fake Cheerleadra sighting.

No. The reason DGB is spoiling him is that he prevented so many apocalyptic scenarios. Government doesn't KNOW it owes him - I mean, do YOU expect that all members of congress have clearance to be told about existence of magic? Even if they would, they are unlikely to believe those apocalyptic scenarios could happen unless they will be shown LOT of top secret stuff.

So, either their budged is bigger despite the people ultimately approving that budget - congress - don't know what it's for ... or DGB is getting money unofficially, for example by selling Uryuom technology. Or ... well ... they may have someone with spell for turning straw into gold. Or water into oil. Or they have power plant powered by fire elemental and are pocketing the money other power plants pay for coal. Or Agent Cranium is emptying accounts of all criminals they are trying to catch. Ok, on second though, it would be surprising if they WOULDN'T have more money than they can ever spend.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

I think if Edward asked for pineapple on pizza*, no one would question it.

*pineapple on pizza is delicious. I'll fight you if you disagree :D

This calls for weapons matching the seriousness of the disagreement.

Zapdos, I choose you! :)

 

 

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2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

So, either their budged is bigger despite the people ultimately approving that budget - congress - don't know what it's for ... or DGB is getting money unofficially, for example by selling Uryuom technology. Or ... well ... they may have someone with spell for turning straw into gold. Or water into oil. Or they have power plant powered by fire elemental and are pocketing the money other power plants pay for coal. Or Agent Cranium is emptying accounts of all criminals they are trying to catch. Ok, on second though, it would be surprising if they WOULDN'T have more money than they can ever spend.

I figured that their funding comes out of the Department of Defense and Department of Justice (and Department of Homeland Security) "black" budgets. It's probably listed in the Congressional budgets as some pieces of overpriced contracting, like the infamous three thousand dollar toilet seats.

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