story Story, Wednesday August 31, 2016

[Scotty 1,061]

5 hours ago, malloyd said:

You aren't a parent are you?  The estimated birth date the doctor gives you is the midpoint of a two week range, and there's probably a 25% chance the birth will be outside that window.  Being born on the same day doesn't guarantee you were conceived in the same *month* let alone the same day.

 

I was basing it on the fact that I was supposed to be due April 27th, but ended up being born May 18th, mind you, I don't think doctors will allow expecting mothers to go that long past the due date these days, maybe a week tops. I don't believe that neither Mrs Pompoms or Diane's mom were due new years eve/day (I'm giving leeway for the possibility that the mothers might have been in labour for a while, Susan could have been born before Diane if the birth went smoother or if Diane's birth took longer) and the doctors likely wouldn't have scheduled induced labour that late on a holiday, or would they? I'm aware that there are people that intentionally try to have new years babies, but I don't see Mrs Pompoms being one of those, and considering Diane's mom put Diane up for adoption I doubt she was going for it either so I don't see the doctors insisting they induce on a day they'd likely be busy with others, Diane and Susan were then likely in the "ready or not, here I come" category.

17 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:

3 hours ago, Kazzellin said:

A cheating cheater who cheated, eh?

Personally, I'm voting for Agent Wolf. He's got the brown hair, and it's entirely possible he and Cranium (who has the blonde hair) are the agents from the photo shown here (as I recall, they've never been officially identified though; please correct me if I'm wrong).

I can't say you're wrong, but Wolf looks and acts too young for me to find that plausible.

Yeah, I would place Mr and Mrs Pompoms to be in the same general age group as the rest of the Main 8's parents, maybe a 10 year group with Ms Dunkel likely being at the low end and Mama Kitsune maybe the top end, I dunno if it's just me but I get an "older sister" vibe from Mama Kitsune. So that's late 30's to late 40's for them.  Wolf and Cranium strike me as people in the mid 20's to mid 30's group which would probably also include Carol and Greg. The Main 8, Catalina, Rhoda, Diane, Charlotte, Luke would be in the late teens to mid 20's.

[CritterKeeper 1,102]

When Nanase and Sarah had their talk about Elliot, Nanase pointed out that Elliot is 18 and his mom is not yet forty, meaning she had him when she was 20 or 21.  This was considered to be very young to be a mother (she had to drop out of college).  From this alone, I would put the rest of the parents at mid-forties at the youngest.

[Scotty 1,061]

Just now, CritterKeeper said:

When Nanase and Sarah had their talk about Elliot, Nanase pointed out that Elliot is 18 and his mom is not yet forty, meaning she had him when she was 20 or 21.  This was considered to be very young to be a mother (she had to drop out of college).  From this alone, I would put the rest of the parents at mid-forties at the youngest.

Yeah, Ms Dunkel was probably a freshman or sophomore in college with Mr Dunkel being a senior, Edward could have been a senior as well but it's hard to say whether Noriko would have been a senior too or younger, hmm I need to correct myself about thinking Mama Kitsune possibly being at the top end of the age group, Sarah's parents could likely be the top end considering Carol is several years older than Sarah, I don't think it changes the age range if Ms Brown was 22-23 when she had Carol.

[CritterKeeper 1,102]

I didn't turn 21 until more than halfway through my first semester of vet school, and I was definitely not the only one.  I was a year younger than typical, so that would mean going straight through from high school to college and doing a four year program, the typical student would be 21 when they graduate.  Mrs. Dunkel may well have had to drop out in her senior year.

[The Old Hack 2,448]

12 hours ago, mlooney said:

It's a bit strange to me that DGB can't get at adoption papers.

Hm. Yes. I first read that as 'if it was done secretly, it would be hard to trace this many years after the fact', but the papers themselves? That's a bit odd.

11 hours ago, mlooney said:

Just for what it's worth, Top Secret background checks go two levels deep, at least in theory.  Or at least that is what they told us back in the day. 

That can be an awful lot of people. I am rather amused by the fact that if anyone made a that deep background clearance check of me they would have to include Queen Margrethe II of Denmark.

[Scotty 1,061]

1 hour ago, CritterKeeper said:

I didn't turn 21 until more than halfway through my first semester of vet school, and I was definitely not the only one.  I was a year younger than typical, so that would mean going straight through from high school to college and doing a four year program, the typical student would be 21 when they graduate.  Mrs. Dunkel may well have had to drop out in her senior year.

Sorry, I overestimated the ages for college. Doesn't help much that I didn't take any college courses until I was 26.

[Kazzellin 8]

7 hours ago, mlooney said:

Conservation of detail is just a general policy for writers to follow, it's not a law handed down from on high.  There is Zero reason to think that Susan's father is any one we have "meet" yet.

Don't mind me, really, just the automatic assumption that way too many fans (and not just of the EGS) have that the cast of whatever they are fans of can't ever increase with out major changes happening to the whole universe of the item in question drives me up the freaking wall.

Snarl.  Grunt.  Snap. Bark, etc.

 

Tense issue: that should be "met," not "meet."

That aside, I rather agree with you; I'd much prefer her father being someone we've never seen "on screen," so to speak. It would put paid to the potential bad taste of the cheating father being a favorite chracter. *nods* 

And I know multiple people have pointed out that Wolf looks too young, but I personally view people who cheat as immature, so taken with grain of salt.  

[mlooney 3,417]

6 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

So you would not be interested in my theory that since Elliot and Tedd were the only characters in the first EGS comic  online, they must be the only "real" characters in the comic and everyone else is just a figment of Elliot's or Tedd's imagination (or delusions)?

Yeah, pretty much.

[Scotty 1,061]

28 minutes ago, mlooney said:

6 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

So you would not be interested in my theory that since Elliot and Tedd were the only characters in the first EGS comic  online, they must be the only "real" characters in the comic and everyone else is just a figment of Elliot's or Tedd's imagination (or delusions)?

Yeah, pretty much.

This story ends with Pandora waking up from one of her week long naps 3 months before her appearance in the forest, and saying "Well, that settles it, I'm resetting."

[malloyd 23]

7 hours ago, Scotty said:

I was basing it on the fact that I was supposed to be due April 27th, but ended up being born May 18th, mind you, I don't think doctors will allow expecting mothers to go that long past the due date these days, maybe a week tops.

Looking around a bit, the current accepted figure for "normal" variation seems to be 5 weeks, so plus or minus about 18 days.  It might be time to start thinking about intervention at 21, but I'd be surprised if many doctors would do it quite yet absent some other risk factor.  You'd think this would be something there was mountains of data on (it's not like having a baby is a rare medical condition!), but there don't seem to be a lot of actual evidence based studies.

[Tom Sewell 268]

And some pregnancies seem to be longer than others. For instance, that of Edward III of England, born  November 13, 1312. As we know from Braveheart, his true father was executed on August 23, 1305.

[Stature 96]

This does not bode well with some of our laid-out theories, unless...

[CritterKeeper 1,102]

1 hour ago, Stature said:

This does not bode well with some of our laid-out theories, unless...

Confirms she has a sister, who presumably could have had a child the same age as her own who was put up for adoption as a baby.  Busted is the idea that the Other Woman who he had over on that particular occasion was that sister.  There could, of course, be another sister who wasn't mentioned, and there could have been any number of Other Women through the years.

[PSadlon 88]

Exactly, the only reason I don't think Diane and Susan's mothers are related is Mr. Verres probably would have noted something like "Mrs. Pompom's sister was also pregnant around the same time and gave up her child for adoption."

[Pharaoh RutinTutin 1,586]

Mrs Pompoms and Diane's birth mother need not be related.  But they probably have a generally similar appearance.

Although, the idea of a man cheating on his wife with a woman who looks like a younger version of his wife is so cliché it just might be true.

[CritterKeeper 1,102]

Susan's mother and the Other Woman don't look very much alike.  Either he doesn't really have a "type," or he married Susan's mother for other reasons, and got his "type" on the side.  It does look like she's very well-off; it wouldn't be the first time a man married a rich heiress or smart businesswoman for her money.

Or, if we want to tie everything in to magic, he could have sensed magic in her mother's bloodline -- the affinity Susan and Diane share likely came from him, but Noriko certainly seemed to think that string magic on both sides should make it almost inevitable her son would have strong magic too, so that could have been what the girls' father was looking for.

Or both.  Both together would be especially nice for that type of guy.

Or he could have genuinely loved Susan's mother, but his need to stray was stronger.... :-(

[CritterKeeper 1,102]

Adoption records can be hard to get....except for places where there are open adoptions and adoptee-right-to-know approaches.  Gosh, isn't it convenient that Diane just turned 18, which is the usual age for adoptees to be able to request their records?  Depending on which little box was checked when she was given up, it could be as simple as filling out a form.

[PSadlon 88]

That is if it is one of those places, but this is one case were the options for Diane are potentially easier than those for Mr Verres. Comparative DNA check might also be an option.

That said, 'I feel safer about Mr Verres guesses than most other people's facts.'

[Tom Sewell 268]

1 hour ago, CritterKeeper said:

Adoption records can be hard to get....except for places where there are open adoptions and adoptee-right-to-know approaches.  Gosh, isn't it convenient that Diane just turned 18, which is the usual age for adoptees to be able to request their records?  Depending on which little box was checked when she was given up, it could be as simple as filling out a form.

Filled out one of those request forms lately? Does the phrase "in six to eight weeks" ring any bells?

I believe most real-world DNA tests usually have similar lag-times. Of course, the Moperverse probably has testing on the "CSI" level of realism, with results available as soon as the next commercial break. But given the prevailing hazy conditions of this chapter (Reply Hazy), expect more delays.

[Vorlonagent 442]

21 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Susan's mother and the Other Woman don't look very much alike.  Either he doesn't really have a "type," or he married Susan's mother for other reasons, and got his "type" on the side.  It does look like she's very well-off; it wouldn't be the first time a man married a rich heiress or smart businesswoman for her money.

Actually all we can really say is Susan's mother now doesn't look like what The Other Woman looked like when Susan was a child.  When Susan was born, Her mom may have looked closer to what Susan looks like now.  Just like if you take the excess weight off Mrs. Kitsune, you might get someone a lot closer to Nanase's or Noriko's build.

[Drasvin 123]

6 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

8 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Adoption records can be hard to get....except for places where there are open adoptions and adoptee-right-to-know approaches.  Gosh, isn't it convenient that Diane just turned 18, which is the usual age for adoptees to be able to request their records?  Depending on which little box was checked when she was given up, it could be as simple as filling out a form.

Filled out one of those request forms lately? Does the phrase "in six to eight weeks" ring any bells?

I believe most real-world DNA tests usually have similar lag-times. Of course, the Moperverse probably has testing on the "CSI" level of realism, with results available as soon as the next commercial break. But given the prevailing hazy conditions of this chapter (Reply Hazy), expect more delays.

Six to Eight weeks when requesting information is generally to deal with a combination of waiting list and mailing the information. Depending on how the information is organized, it might only take a few hours to find the information once the request comes up in the queue. DNA tests would likely be similar, with the test itself likely only taking a few hours or so. (You have the ship the samples to a lab. Then the lab does the tests. And then they ship the results back.) If they could contact a DNA lab that doesn't have a big backlog, though might be able to get the results pretty quickly. Though I don't have any personal experience with DNA tests, so I don't know how long the tests themselves take. I have had blood tests that I was able to get email results of a couple days after the blood was drawn though. That said, the DGB's CSIs likely have some magic spells that can identify DNA and stuff.

[hkmaly 490]

On 08/31/2016 at 6:13 AM, Scotty said:

http://www.egscomics.com/?id=2233

Well, the half sister theory is still on the table at least.

I didn't completely gave up other theories. Edward may be mistaken.

On 08/31/2016 at 8:04 AM, PrimordialSoul253 said:

That said, Verres only checked Susan's record, so we might see things cleared up a bit more if he dug around Diane's birth record.  But if Mr. Pompom is parent to both Diane and Susan, that's a very bloody big coincidence for both children to be born within twenty minutes of one another, and grow up looking like twins with a hair color they couldn't have inherited from dear old Dad.

Yup. True, as Edward said, bigger coincidences happened, but that doesn't invalidate Occam's razor.

On 08/31/2016 at 7:10 AM, partner555 said:

How long has Susan's dad been cheating? His entire marriage? Before then?

The marriage wasn't THAT long, was it?

On 08/31/2016 at 2:24 PM, Scotty said:

Yeah, the background checks Edward's done on Tedd's friends were likely easy enough to do, Edward could have sneaked glances at Susan's record while looking for records of someone else that DGB was looking for or something.

If DGB is aware that Tedd has TF gun - which is very likely - then he wasn't doing the checks unofficially. He would be ORDERED to do it if he wasn't already head of probably relatively isolated department.

I can imagine Arthur Arthur going over files when replacing him: "So his son is experimenting with secret technology ... I hope he at least was responsible enough to made background check on his friends ... yup, it's here, good, at least something I taught him well."

On 08/31/2016 at 5:07 PM, Don Edwards said:

Tracking everyone a serial cheater has had sex with would be difficult. It gets even more complicated if Diane's mother was also promiscuous - she may not have even known who the father was - or in a relationship at the time, so she didn't want to admit to having had some on the side and the father listed on Diane's birth certificate is not really the genetic father.

Yup, even if he looked at the adoption paper, it might not list anything helpful.

On 08/31/2016 at 6:13 PM, mlooney said:

There is Zero reason to think that Susan's father is any one we have "meet" yet.

While I agree the chance is slim, remember Carol Brown?

On 08/31/2016 at 9:44 PM, CritterKeeper said:

Nanase pointed out that Elliot is 18 and his mom is not yet forty, meaning she had him when she was 20 or 21.

Or YOUNGER.

On 09/01/2016 at 4:51 AM, malloyd said:

Looking around a bit, the current accepted figure for "normal" variation seems to be 5 weeks, so plus or minus about 18 days.  It might be time to start thinking about intervention at 21, but I'd be surprised if many doctors would do it quite yet absent some other risk factor.  You'd think this would be something there was mountains of data on (it's not like having a baby is a rare medical condition!), but there don't seem to be a lot of actual evidence based studies.

I think there are not many parents who would know for sure when the conception happened.

Also ... isn't the phase of menstruation cycle more important than when exactly was the sex? I read somewhere that sperm can wait for the egg for few days ... actually, 3-5 days. With no effect on when the child will be born.

On 09/02/2016 at 6:55 PM, Tom Sewell said:

Of course, the Moperverse probably has testing on the "CSI" level of realism, with results available as soon as the next commercial break. But given the prevailing hazy conditions of this chapter (Reply Hazy), expect more delays.

I don't think mundane labs have that level of realism. On  the other hand ...

On 09/02/2016 at 1:49 AM, Drasvin said:

That said, the DGB's CSIs likely have some magic spells that can identify DNA and stuff.

... I'm surprised Edward didn't mentioned the possibility of having them tested by DGB's methods. Is he THAT out of the loop now?

Wait. Is THIS why he didn't tested if Justin awakened yet?

[Drasvin 123]

3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

On 9/2/2016 at 6:49 PM, Drasvin said:

That said, the DGB's CSIs likely have some magic spells that can identify DNA and stuff.

... I'm surprised Edward didn't mentioned the possibility of having them tested by DGB's methods. Is he THAT out of the loop now?

Well...Edward did mention the possibility that their CSIs might be incompetent.

[partner555 170]

7 hours ago, hkmaly said:

The marriage wasn't THAT long, was it?

I think it was seven years, give or take, based on when Susan caught her dad cheating.

[CritterKeeper 1,102]

On September 2, 2016 at 6:49 PM, Drasvin said:

DNA tests would likely be similar, with the test itself likely only taking a few hours or so. (You have the ship the samples to a lab. Then the lab does the tests. And then they ship the results back.) If they could contact a DNA lab that doesn't have a big backlog, though might be able to get the results pretty quickly. Though I don't have any personal experience with DNA tests, so I don't know how long the tests themselves take.

Hmm, it likely depends on the test(s) being run.  I know when we did PCR tests in chem lab, we had to set up the gels, and then it physically took a certain amount of time for the molecules to move across them.  At least overnight, possibly later in the week or even the next week, I honestly don't recall now.  I don't know what sort of advances have been made since then, but I suspect for a proper comparison it would be more like days than hours.

9 hours ago, hkmaly said:

The marriage wasn't THAT long, was it?

How old does Susan look in the flashback when she tells her mother about The Other Woman?  If we assume she was conceived in wedlock and not out, that would make it at least your guess of her age plus a year, but it could be longer.

Quote

If DGB is aware that Tedd has TF gun - which is very likely - then he wasn't doing the checks unofficially. He would be ORDERED to do it if he wasn't already head of probably relatively isolated department.

I can imagine Arthur Arthur going over files when replacing him: "So his son is experimenting with secret technology ... I hope he at least was responsible enough to made background check on his friends ... yup, it's here, good, at least something I taught him well."

Yes, if Mr. Verres has been keeping the DGB up to date one everyone's powers, then he's likely also told them about the TFG.  I'm not sure if he knows how far Tedd has gotten in developing the watches, though.  His work takes him away, and Tedd clearly isn't comfortable sharing everything he does with his dad, especially things involving transformation.  If he sees Tedd or his friends transformed, he may have just assumed it was with the TFG.

He might be downloading copies of all of Tedd's files to a secure government server every night, for the government's magical scientists to analyse and expand on.  Or, it might be that Tedd is the only (successful) magical scientist in the DGB, or even in the world, because only he has the combination of the ability to see magic and a magic-rich environment to work in.

Quote

While I agree the chance is slim, remember Carol Brown?

There are two possibilties.  Either Susan's dad is someone we know about already, or he isn't.  If he isn't, then that's it, there's not much to speculate about.  I think even if we think it's far more likely he'll be someone we don't know yet, it's only natural that we spend more time discussing any possibilities for him being someone we know, just becasue there's so much more to be said about that option.

Quote

I think there are not many parents who would know for sure when the conception happened.

Also ... isn't the phase of menstruation cycle more important than when exactly was the sex? I read somewhere that sperm can wait for the egg for few days ... actually, 3-5 days. With no effect on when the child will be born.

Yup, it's when the ovulation happens that's most important in timing pregnancies.

Interestingly enough, when people give the figure of "she's x number of weeks pregnant," that number of weeks starts with the first day of the woman's last period.  That means, on average, it considers a pregnancy to have begun about two weeks before conception.  I believe it's a holdover from when the process wasn't fully understood, which has stuck around partly because a woman is much more likely to know when her last period started than when she ovulated.

Quote

Wait. Is THIS why he didn't test if Justin awakened yet?

He may well have run that test "off-screen" after the first fire demon, and/or after the dragon incident.  At that point, Justin was only marked, not awakened.  Have they said for certain how that device responds to someone who is marked?  Or, it might be that Justin had already shown magic ability from his ASMA training and everyone just assumed that was how he hit so hard.  (Or maybe the wand has a 'silent' mode now and he scanned Justin without telling the group....)