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hkmaly

Story, Monday February 26, 2018

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10 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

This may not be the sort f job offer Tedd can say "no" to...

That depends on the interpretation of "can"...

Is physically capable of? Yes, he certainly CAN say no. For that matter, at present the job offer is conditional, and he could very easily just fail to meet the conditions - thus, no job offer. By, for example, NOT arranging his notes into a suitable format and sending Arthur a copy. Heck, it's theoretically possible he'll TRY to meet those conditions, and fail. (I so do not see that happening.)

And if he decides he doesn't want to work under DGB, no they can't force him. Do they want to try? Maybe kidnap or threaten Grace? Yeah... bring in a genius researcher and seer by convincing him that you're evil and the enemy of what he holds dear. Anger his friends and relatives - they would definitely be concerned about Nanase, Elliot, Ellen, and Edward, possibly about Susan, Sarah, and Justin. Anger Grace's friends and relatives - her three brothers, Edward (again), Vladia, Hedge, Guineas, Raven. They'd all chat with THEIR friends and relatives - Catalina, Diane, Rhoda, Noah, Luke (and, through him, his circle), Mamase (I think she's still keeping significant secrets), Greg, Agent Wolf, Agent Cranium... I don't know how it might spread from there, or how much of that potential growth DGB would be aware of, but it seriously doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

Different interpretation: can Tedd seriously consider saying no? There, I doubt it. It's too good a deal - he gets paid (probably well) to do what he wants to do anyway, he gets equipment and assistance he can't afford on his own, he would have access to (and the necessary contacts to find) whatever relevant expertise DGB may have available which might allow him to get significant results faster...

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1 hour ago, Don Edwards said:

Is physically capable of? Yes, he certainly CAN say no. For that matter, at present the job offer is conditional, and he could very easily just fail to meet the conditions - thus, no job offer. By, for example, NOT arranging his notes into a suitable format and sending Arthur a copy. Heck, it's theoretically possible he'll TRY to meet those conditions, and fail. (I so do not see that happening.)

That's obviously assuming Arthur is not just pretending he doesn't already have those notes.

1 hour ago, Don Edwards said:

And if he decides he doesn't want to work under DGB, no they can't force him. Do they want to try? Maybe kidnap or threaten Grace? Yeah... bring in a genius researcher and seer by convincing him that you're evil and the enemy of what he holds dear. Anger his friends and relatives - they would definitely be concerned about Nanase, Elliot, Ellen, and Edward, possibly about Susan, Sarah, and Justin. Anger Grace's friends and relatives - her three brothers, Edward (again), Vladia, Hedge, Guineas, Raven. They'd all chat with THEIR friends and relatives - Catalina, Diane, Rhoda, Noah, Luke (and, through him, his circle), Mamase (I think she's still keeping significant secrets), Greg, Agent Wolf, Agent Cranium... I don't know how it might spread from there, or how much of that potential growth DGB would be aware of, but it seriously doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

I guess any attempt to actually force her would necessary be bluffing, just like sending someone after Grace doesn't mean that someone would actually fight her. Yes, convincing genius researcher and seer you are evil is bad idea, and any use of force would likely anger 1) Edward and his friends in DGB, including Agent Cranium and Agent Wolf 2) Grace's siblings 3) rest of main eight and their friends, which likely at this point doesn't include Catalina and Rhoda, but may plausibly include Mrs. Kitsune and Adrian Raven (and Greg, yes).

On the other hand, Tedd may not realize her situation ; just as in past he was afraid he might lose access to TF gun, as that is top secret technology and he is not supposed to use it without being allowed by DGB, they can plausibly claim it's legal for them to take Grace and without Edward calling them on that bluff Tedd might not realize DGB can't afford to fight him.

1 hour ago, Don Edwards said:

Different interpretation: can Tedd seriously consider saying no? There, I doubt it. It's too good a deal - he gets paid (probably well) to do what he wants to do anyway, he gets equipment and assistance he can't afford on his own, he would have access to (and the necessary contacts to find) whatever relevant expertise DGB may have available which might allow him to get significant results faster...

Of course, Tedd really doesn't have any reason to reject offer of resources, money, equipment, assistance ... he was able to get far with the stuff Edward brought him but official (well, as official as top secret stuff can be) laboratory is obviously better, and Arthur shown himself as reasonable man in this only encounter Tedd remembers, so Tedd doesn't have reason to fear him. In fact, Arthur seem even more accepting than her own father to her gender fluidity (although it's mostly because he doesn't care).

We were led to perceive Arthur Arthur as villain, but none of reasons we had is really known to Tedd, and even those reasons don't seem so serious in light of his interaction with Tedd here. And his opinion of DGB in general is more formed by his actual experience with his father instead of movies and series like X-Files and our world news.

 

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

We were led to perceive Arthur Arthur as villain

I believe not all of us were. Some withheld judgment. As far as I am concerned, the jury is still out, but there is definitely new evidence to consider now.

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23 hours ago, partner555 said:

So that's why Van is there. To simplify things for the adults.

This is the third time that Dan has had a teen or child be the emotional guide to a much older character.  It just seems weird and wrong to me to have this in an otherwise quite thoughtful and sensitive comic.

 

9 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

I wonder if Pandora's dam can be taken down now? We don't know if Adrian has the spell to take it down, and even after Pandora returns, we don't know if she will know how to do it. It could take quite a long time for Tedd to figure out how to make a spell that will work. Meanwhile, will Sarah be forced to keep using her magic to bring the ambient magic in Moperville down to safer levels? Because if the dam isn't brought down and the ambient magic level keeps building up, the remaining Aberrations and other pests like not-Tengu are going to keep getting drawn to Moperville. Hmmm. Sounds like Moperville might need some full-time monster hunters...

I'd think Pandora's spell killing most of the aberrations would have sucked up all the magic in the area (world?) for a while.  It would be interesting to see zero magic for a few days and Tedd and others unable to undo transformations.  

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8 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Aaand just few days after we found Greg has a girlfriend we saw this image of Vladia. Suspicious coincidence, isn't it?

Considering that sketchbook entry was a patreon request. The image of Vladia was inevitable anyway, and the request would have been made about a month or so prior to the reveal that Greg had a new girlfriend, so was Dan influenced by that? I dunno.

6 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Of course, Tedd really doesn't have any reason to reject offer of resources, money, equipment, assistance ... he was able to get far with the stuff Edward brought him but official (well, as official as top secret stuff can be) laboratory is obviously better, and Arthur shown himself as reasonable man in this only encounter Tedd remembers, so Tedd doesn't have reason to fear him. In fact, Arthur seem even more accepting than her own father to her gender fluidity (although it's mostly because he doesn't care).

I guess the question would be if Arthur (or Leifeld, or even Edward) puts certain restrictions or special requirements on Tedd's work, like Tedd wouldn't be able to have Sarah and Grace assist in any experiments and could only work with people picked out by the paranormal division. That might be tough on Tedd who'd certainly be uncomfortable working with anyone else do to potential nudity.

4 hours ago, Prof_Sai said:

I'd think Pandora's spell killing most of the aberrations would have sucked up all the magic in the area (world?) for a while.  It would be interesting to see zero magic for a few days and Tedd and others unable to undo transformations.  

She certainly would have used up most of whatever energy was left in Moperville after Sarah used up a bunch over the course of the week, and she spread that energy to the other immortals so I doubt any energy got used up elsewhere in the world, but yeah, Adrian should be clear to remove the clog and Pandora wouldn't have asked him to do so if he didn't have the ability to do it himself.

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4 hours ago, Prof_Sai said:

This is the third time that Dan has had a teen or child be the emotional guide to a much older character.  It just seems weird and wrong to me to have this in an otherwise quite thoughtful and sensitive comic.

Would you mind explaining why? No criticism of your opinion intended, I am honestly interested.

As an aside, EGS is not unproblematic. Dan has stepped in it before. If you find something he has done offensive or unpleasant, he is not unresponsive to reasoned criticism. I urge you to make contact with him rather than remain silent if something makes you unhappy.

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EGS is a story about a group of teens becoming adults in a world where magic and extra terrestrial intelligence is just part of the crazy with which they must cope.

Since the story is about young adults, having older authority figures forced to reassess their point of view by considering the observations of children or other young people is a plot device so likely that it is almost cliché.

Even though it may be cliché, it still works.

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6 hours ago, Prof_Sai said:

This is the third time that Dan has had a teen or child be the emotional guide to a much older character.  It just seems weird and wrong to me to have this in an otherwise quite thoughtful and sensitive comic.

I disagree. I suggest re-reading "The Emperor's New Clothes" and perhaps listening to a song from South Pacific, "You've Got to Be Carefully Taught"

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1 hour ago, The Old Hack said:

Would you mind explaining why? No criticism of your opinion intended, I am honestly interested.

As an aside, EGS is not unproblematic. Dan has stepped in it before. If you find something he has done offensive or unpleasant, he is not unresponsive to reasoned criticism. I urge you to make contact with him rather than remain silent if something makes you unhappy.

While I personally don't have any issue with it, Dan certainly wouldn't be the first person to do this. I can only guess that one other instance of it could be Grace with her "you must try for better outcomes" speech to Adrian. And I wonder if the other instance would be Akiko the Cookie Fairy giving emotional support to Nanase. Although Sarah and Tedd giving Pandora emotional support might also work (though in the case of Pandora and Tedd, they gave each other a fair bit of emotional support).

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7 hours ago, Prof_Sai said:

I'd think Pandora's spell killing most of the aberrations would have sucked up all the magic in the area (world?) for a while.  It would be interesting to see zero magic for a few days and Tedd and others unable to undo transformations.  

Pandora's last spell used the connection made by the reset to get all the other Immortals all over the Earth to kill the aberrations. So, she probably was using very little magical energy herself. It was sort of a magical version of a judo throw, using the strength of your adversary instead of your own.

We should find out pretty soon (in EGS time) whether the ambient magic in Moperville has been drained. Tedd should be able to tell right away; Sarah would find out as soon as she tries to use her spell.

Although it's never been mentioned, perhaps the base level of ambient magic for the Moperville side of Earth might change. If it was raised, it might make developing magic resistance through exposure faster and easier...

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19 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Let's see, Grace is fireproof, has a force field, can fly, can lift a car... any volunteers for this mission?

Avada Kedavra. Exterminatus. Empathetic voodoo doll. Nuclear detonation with memory wipe. Tesla death ray. Supersonic sniper round. Elephant tranquilizer. Citywide sleep spell and a bullet to the head. Dimensional cage. Holding a few orphans hostage in a teleportation-proof sealed bunker with a remote trigger release of chlorine gas. There are many ways to take down someone without x-ray vision, susceptible to sleep spells and emotional manipulation. You're not thinking ruthlessly enough. This is the DGB. A government organization that deals with shapeshifting supernatural heavy-hitters on a daily basis, with contingency plans to kill minor gods. If the CIA can murder or kidnap and torture thousands of people in over 500 black budget black sites around the world, in some of the most densely populated areas in some cases, if they can manufacture an entire drug trade and keep an entire race of people oppressed, if they can overthrow countless governments and assassinate high profile political leaders, the DGB should have no problem neutralizing Grace. Permanently.

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6 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

 

We should find out pretty soon (in EGS time) whether the ambient magic in Moperville has been drained. Tedd should be able to tell right away; Sarah would find out as soon as she tries to use her spell.

Oh, man, now I'm picturing the look on Sarah's face when she tries to cast her spell and it doesn't work.  She'll know it means either the blockage is gone, or at least that she's cleared away enough magic that it can be removed, and she won't be able to use magic any more.  And then when she first hears that Pandora/Box is "dead"....

4 hours ago, wanderingmagus said:

Avada Kedavra. Exterminatus. Empathetic voodoo doll. Nuclear detonation with memory wipe. Tesla death ray. Supersonic sniper round. Elephant tranquilizer. Citywide sleep spell and a bullet to the head. Dimensional cage. Holding a few orphans hostage in a teleportation-proof sealed bunker with a remote trigger release of chlorine gas. There are many ways to take down someone without x-ray vision, susceptible to sleep spells and emotional manipulation. You're not thinking ruthlessly enough. This is the DGB.

Yes, this is the DGB, in a comic written by someone who was barely able to kill two characters so far, one of them totally evil and the other only just introduced a couple of comics beforehand.  Dan is not writing that kind of story.

4 hours ago, wanderingmagus said:

If the CIA can murder or kidnap and torture thousands of people in over 500 black budget black sites around the world, in some of the most densely populated areas in some cases, if they can manufacture an entire drug trade and keep an entire race of people oppressed, if they can overthrow countless governments and assassinate high profile political leaders, the DGB should have no problem neutralizing Grace. Permanently.

Um....wow.  What can I say, except that your head is a scary place to live.

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15 hours ago, The Old Hack said:
16 hours ago, hkmaly said:

We were led to perceive Arthur Arthur as villain

I believe not all of us were. Some withheld judgment. As far as I am concerned, the jury is still out, but there is definitely new evidence to consider now.

We were led. Not everyone went with it (followed?), of course, but there were definitely signs in comics designed to make us think he's villain.

Or does that phrase not translate correctly to english?

10 hours ago, Scotty said:

I guess the question would be if Arthur (or Leifeld, or even Edward) puts certain restrictions or special requirements on Tedd's work, like Tedd wouldn't be able to have Sarah and Grace assist in any experiments and could only work with people picked out by the paranormal division. That might be tough on Tedd who'd certainly be uncomfortable working with anyone else do to potential nudity.

As I already mentioned, I would expect the line of people willing to risk nudity, not speaking about potential worse effects of failed transformations, would be quite short. So DGB will be glad Tedd already has guinea pig. (Meaning Sarah. I don't think Tedd can do any experiments on Grace. Well, successful experiments.)

However, DGB can insist on all experiments being filmed, which can have similar effect.

7 hours ago, Scotty said:
10 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

Would you mind explaining why? No criticism of your opinion intended, I am honestly interested.

As an aside, EGS is not unproblematic. Dan has stepped in it before. If you find something he has done offensive or unpleasant, he is not unresponsive to reasoned criticism. I urge you to make contact with him rather than remain silent if something makes you unhappy.

While I personally don't have any issue with it, Dan certainly wouldn't be the first person to do this. I can only guess that one other instance of it could be Grace with her "you must try for better outcomes" speech to Adrian. And I wonder if the other instance would be Akiko the Cookie Fairy giving emotional support to Nanase. Although Sarah and Tedd giving Pandora emotional support might also work (though in the case of Pandora and Tedd, they gave each other a fair bit of emotional support).

I don't think Grace, Sarah or Tedd would count as children, although relatively to Adrian or Pandora they are. And I don't have any issue with it either.

(Also, I don't see anything about being offended in that post.)

7 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:
15 hours ago, Prof_Sai said:

I'd think Pandora's spell killing most of the aberrations would have sucked up all the magic in the area (world?) for a while.  It would be interesting to see zero magic for a few days and Tedd and others unable to undo transformations.  

Pandora's last spell used the connection made by the reset to get all the other Immortals all over the Earth to kill the aberrations. So, she probably was using very little magical energy herself. It was sort of a magical version of a judo throw, using the strength of your adversary instead of your own.

We should find out pretty soon (in EGS time) whether the ambient magic in Moperville has been drained. Tedd should be able to tell right away; Sarah would find out as soon as she tries to use her spell.

Although it's never been mentioned, perhaps the base level of ambient magic for the Moperville side of Earth might change. If it was raised, it might make developing magic resistance through exposure faster and easier...

She explicitly narrated that she used her own power and any available ambient magic to make it possible even for young immortals.

I don't expect it would have permanent effect, but likely consumed more magic than Sarah.

25 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:
4 hours ago, wanderingmagus said:

Avada Kedavra. Exterminatus. Empathetic voodoo doll. Nuclear detonation with memory wipe. Tesla death ray. Supersonic sniper round. Elephant tranquilizer. Citywide sleep spell and a bullet to the head. Dimensional cage. Holding a few orphans hostage in a teleportation-proof sealed bunker with a remote trigger release of chlorine gas. There are many ways to take down someone without x-ray vision, susceptible to sleep spells and emotional manipulation. You're not thinking ruthlessly enough. This is the DGB.

Yes, this is the DGB, in a comic written by someone who was barely able to kill two characters so far, one of them totally evil and the other only just introduced a couple of comics beforehand.  Dan is not writing that kind of story.

Exactly. We don't need to be worried about things like THIS happening in comics. What I proposed is probably the darkest thing Dan would write.

4 hours ago, wanderingmagus said:

A government organization that deals with shapeshifting supernatural heavy-hitters on a daily basis, with contingency plans to kill minor gods.

It would be unrealistic to not expect DGB has stuff like this ready, however. Arthur Arthur does seem like someone who would authorize stuff like this if he considered it necessary. Just ... we are not likely to see it in comics.

27 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:
Quote

If the CIA can murder or kidnap and torture thousands of people in over 500 black budget black sites around the world, in some of the most densely populated areas in some cases, if they can manufacture an entire drug trade and keep an entire race of people oppressed, if they can overthrow countless governments and assassinate high profile political leaders, the DGB should have no problem neutralizing Grace. Permanently.

Um....wow.  What can I say, except that your head is a scary place to live.

It's not his head. I'm not sure about "entire race" and "countless governments", but just the stuff which was PROVED that CIA done is scary enough. It may be crazy conspiracy theory that 9/11 was orchestrated by CIA, but it IS proven that bin Laden was trained by CIA in past. Well, ok, is proven that CIA financed the mujahideen in afghanistan which included future Al-Quaeda fighters, personal involvement of CIA and bin Ladin is not proven.

... and I suppose we shouldn't continue this discussion, at least not here.

 

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15 hours ago, Prof_Sai said:

This is the third time that Dan has had a teen or child be the emotional guide to a much older character.  It just seems weird and wrong to me to have this in an otherwise quite thoughtful and sensitive comic.

You'd be surprised by what some of the gen z folks have figured out with the proper environment.

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1 hour ago, CritterKeeper said:

Yes, this is the DGB, in a comic written by someone who was barely able to kill two characters so far, one of them totally evil and the other only just introduced a couple of comics beforehand.  Dan is not writing that kind of story.

Technically he killed off 3 characters if you include Pandora, we know from tweets and commentary that writing her reset/refresh was pretty emotional for him. But yeah I have a very hard time believing that he'd kill off someone like Grace or any of the main cast.

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3 hours ago, Scotty said:
4 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Yes, this is the DGB, in a comic written by someone who was barely able to kill two characters so far, one of them totally evil and the other only just introduced a couple of comics beforehand.  Dan is not writing that kind of story.

Technically he killed off 3 characters if you include Pandora, we know from tweets and commentary that writing her reset/refresh was pretty emotional for him. But yeah I have a very hard time believing that he'd kill off someone like Grace or any of the main cast.

The score would depend on how much exposure we require to count someone as character. Like, Noah's parents were just mentioned, but original Grace appeared, Mr. Guyur appeared multiple times, Blaike had three following pages, Jerry 16 ... then we have Damien and Pandora. And how many vampires, six? With the spider one having 11 pages.

Of course I still don't believe Dan would kill off one of main eight characters. But it's hard to argue it's completely impossible. Like ... he MIGHT eventually get to point where it would be possible, with Pandora's death as one of stepping stones.

... might be due to old age. Quite possibly, the methods Tedd and others would be using to reach immortality will not work on part Uryuoms.

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28 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

The score would depend on how much exposure we require to count someone as character. Like, Noah's parents were just mentioned, but original Grace appeared, Mr. Guyur appeared multiple times, Blaike had three following pages, Jerry 16 ... then we have Damien and Pandora. And how many vampires, six? With the spider one having 11 pages.

Anyone that was evil isn't so bad really, Dan would have gone into it with a "these villains are going to die because they're villains so of course they will" mentality. Original Grace and Noah's parents were already dead and Dan didn't really give too much into about them beyond their connection to other characters. Dan didn't go out of his way to actually draw their final moments and the reactions afterwards like he did with Blaike and Pandora

Mr Guyur was a strong tie to Grace as someone she knew and was forced to watch die so that certainly would have struck some cords with both Dan and the readers. Should be noted that Dan considering having Vlad search for Grace and killing residents in the process, but didn't think it fit the spirit of the comic. Also Dan considered scenarios where Vlad was killed, and ones where Damien simply ran away to return later but Dan didn't feel that it'd be right to set the stage for another Painted Black when he had other story ideas in the works.

Jerry probably was another tough one for Dan considering how Susan was affected by him, he's not Pandora level of emotion though, Pandora went through a lot to go from "She's evil" to being a certain forumgoer's waifu. And then sacrificed her power to protect those she cared about.

BTW you left out Comically Evil Guy. ;)

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14 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Should be noted that Dan considering having Vlad search for Grace and killing residents in the process, but didn't think it fit the spirit of the comic. Also Dan considered scenarios where Vlad was killed

I suppose if Vlad would be actually shown killing it wouldn't be as easy to avoid killing him. But note that it's more that "forcing Grace out in the open" than just the killing which wasn't matching EGS's tone - effectively, Grace, who already has too much burden, would feel responsible for death of those people.

18 minutes ago, Scotty said:

BTW you left out Comically Evil Guy. ;)

How could've I forgot him ... note that it is hard to believe that the vampires didn't killed more people when homing on Moperville. Also note it wasn't shown.

BTW, I also forgot Sirleck's host. Who might or might not died on the page he first appeared on.

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1 minute ago, hkmaly said:

I suppose if Vlad would be actually shown killing it wouldn't be as easy to avoid killing him. But note that it's more that "forcing Grace out in the open" than just the killing which wasn't matching EGS's tone - effectively, Grace, who already has too much burden, would feel responsible for death of those people.

Yeah, not only did Dan take pity on Vlad, but he didn't want Grace to suffer anymore than she already had. Between the isolation of being raises in a research facility, seeing her papa being transfered away, then Damien's attack and the death of her father, the beatings and the threats. That a lot of crap to deal with that rarely anyone would bounce back from the way Grace has.

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:

That a lot of crap to deal with that rarely anyone would bounce back from the way Grace has.

Yeah, definitely, it's rare for human to bounced back the way - wait.

Is it possible Grace was able to recover from that better thanks to her Uryuom heritage?

1 hour ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:
1 hour ago, Scotty said:

...that rarely anyone would bounce back from the way Grace has.

Grace is not allowed to snap until we actually have the Undo Button.

Definitely. She would leave quite a lot of dead behind her.

 

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5 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Is it possible Grace was able to recover from that better thanks to her Uryuom heritage?

Well she certainly hasn't completely recovered, she's still very reluctant about fighting which would come from a fear of losing control like she did while fighting Damien. She knows she needed to learn how to fight in order to protect herself and others and that there are those that are irredeemable but it's not something she's thrilled about doing.

Whether being part Uryuom helps is uncertain, aside for how they look at relationships and family, I get the feeling that they're still prone to similar emotional stresses and trauma, but I don't know for sure.

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